380 réponses à ce sujet

[smudboy]

kraidy1117 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Indoctrination wrote...

As for the characters, they have absolutely no relevence or connection to the main plot. Again, maybe I've just been spoiled by Dragon Age, but I just didn't like how ME2's characters are just accessories for Commander Shepard.

I had to answer this. Seriously, how they are not connected to the main plot if your Shepard's SURVIVAL and by this saying this his PRESENCE in ME3 are connected to your squad effiency and loyalty.

Aside from Mordin, they're connected to the main plot because "TIM said so."  They're literally 12 other stories tacked onto ME2's main plot, whose only relation is association.

Mordin gets an intro by TIM and Miranda.  He speculates a bit on the Collectors and the plague.  A random Vorcha states something about what the Collectors want, but that plot line ends and soon as it began.  His countermeasure acts as a plot device, much like Tali's evidence on Saren.  The thing is, Tali and her conversations are relevant to the main plot, as we learn about the people who created the main opposing force of the story.

What this means is that the players exist in ME2 because the plot demanded it.  Even if they had more party banter and dynamic group scenes, which would be awesome, it wouldn't have anything to do with the main plot.  They have no personal motivation toward the Collectors or the mission.  Shepard recruiting them is "because Shepard said so."  But compared to Shepard, at least they have character development.

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Take out Miri, the story will change big time. <Miri and Mordin are needed for the plot and for the Cerberus plot Jack is needed and since Cerberus is part of the main story that makes Jack part of the main story.

How is Miri essential to the plot?

You have to be kidding me? first she was the only one catable of leading the project to bring back Shepard, she was the one who got liara to help TIM, she saved Shepards life during the attack from Wilson at the start of the game. Without her Shepard would not even have survived his resuraction. Also don't give me the you can replace her with a Cerberus opertive and nothing changes. It would change.

Also Cerberus is part of the main story, just like the council and Alliance where part of the main story in ME. Also did you ever readt he back of your ME2 case? "Entire human colonies on many worlds are vanishing. As Commander Shepard, you must assemble the galaxy's deadliest team to save mankind against impossible odds. They call it a suicide mission. Prove them wrong.

So yes every character is connected to the story since the whole story is about getting your team together, getting them focused on the mission and defeating the Collectors. Miri and Mordin however stand out of them all since they both play huge roles in the story.

How is Shepard essential to the plot?

[Nightwriter]

kraidy1117 wrote...

So then DAO is not an RPG because the main story, not the side stories was not that good. Is that what your getting at? An RPG has nothing to do with the story, the story is a plus, it has to do with you as a player being connected to your character and ME2 improved with that big time in ME2.

I am not sure what you mean. DA:O was a great RPG because everything, main and side stories, was good.

Of course the proper definition of an RPG is a game in which you play a role, but it has evolved into something more for me, I admit. I now find it synonymous with storytelling and games that offer plot.

[wulf3n]

kraidy1117 wrote...
So yes every character is connected to the story since the whole story is about getting your team together, getting them focused on the mission and defeating the Collectors. Miri and Mordin however stand out of them all since they both play huge roles in the story.

I think the problem is that no-one in your team has unique skills that are "necessary" to the successful completion of the mission. you just need people that can fight.

edit: I mean TIM says thier the baddest MoFo's in the galaxy, but leave em to deal with a few light mechs by themselves, and they'll be dead before you can say WTF!!!! hell i should just take a few heavy mechs with me, then ill show the reapers who's boss.

Modifié par wulf3n, 10 avril 2010 - 04:25 .

[kraidy1117]

smudboy wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Indoctrination wrote...

As for the characters, they have absolutely no relevence or connection to the main plot. Again, maybe I've just been spoiled by Dragon Age, but I just didn't like how ME2's characters are just accessories for Commander Shepard.

I had to answer this. Seriously, how they are not connected to the main plot if your Shepard's SURVIVAL and by this saying this his PRESENCE in ME3 are connected to your squad effiency and loyalty.

Aside from Mordin, they're connected to the main plot because "TIM said so."  They're literally 12 other stories tacked onto ME2's main plot, whose only relation is association.

Mordin gets an intro by TIM and Miranda.  He speculates a bit on the Collectors and the plague.  A random Vorcha states something about what the Collectors want, but that plot line ends and soon as it began.  His countermeasure acts as a plot device, much like Tali's evidence on Saren.  The thing is, Tali and her conversations are relevant to the main plot, as we learn about the people who created the main opposing force of the story.

What this means is that the players exist in ME2 because the plot demanded it.  Even if they had more party banter and dynamic group scenes, which would be awesome, it wouldn't have anything to do with the main plot.  They have no personal motivation toward the Collectors or the mission.  Shepard recruiting them is "because Shepard said so."  But compared to Shepard, at least they have character development.

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Take out Miri, the story will change big time. <Miri and Mordin are needed for the plot and for the Cerberus plot Jack is needed and since Cerberus is part of the main story that makes Jack part of the main story.

How is Miri essential to the plot?

You have to be kidding me? first she was the only one catable of leading the project to bring back Shepard, she was the one who got liara to help TIM, she saved Shepards life during the attack from Wilson at the start of the game. Without her Shepard would not even have survived his resuraction. Also don't give me the you can replace her with a Cerberus opertive and nothing changes. It would change.

Also Cerberus is part of the main story, just like the council and Alliance where part of the main story in ME. Also did you ever readt he back of your ME2 case? "Entire human colonies on many worlds are vanishing. As Commander Shepard, you must assemble the galaxy's deadliest team to save mankind against impossible odds. They call it a suicide mission. Prove them wrong.

So yes every character is connected to the story since the whole story is about getting your team together, getting them focused on the mission and defeating the Collectors. Miri and Mordin however stand out of them all since they both play huge roles in the story.

How is Shepard essential to the plot?

*facepalm* I don't insult people often but this comment shows me that you are a complete utter moron. Lets see? Who made it poseable for Nazzara to get killed in ME and made it poseable to get humanity a seat? Shepard. Who was responisble for taking down the colectors and fniding real solid evidence on the reapers and the one who is creating alliances with Geth, Quarians, Krogan and the Rachni? Shepard. Who will be the one who will defeat the Reapers and save the Galaxy? Shepard will.

[kraidy1117]

wulf3n wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
So yes every character is connected to the story since the whole story is about getting your team together, getting them focused on the mission and defeating the Collectors. Miri and Mordin however stand out of them all since they both play huge roles in the story.

I think the problem is that no-one in your team has unique skills that are "necessary" to the successful completion of the mission. you just need people that can fight.

Realy?Lets see if you don't have Garrus, Jacob and Talis upgrades then three people die right there, one of them is Jack. The more unloyal people you have and less upgrades, the more people wil ldie and Shepard will die because of that.

So then explain to me then why Grunt, even on insainty rarely dies for me and when I was vs the Human-Reaper, Miri and Garrus where able to take Collectors and Harbingers on there own without help and not dieing?

Modifié par kraidy1117, 10 avril 2010 - 04:28 .

[kraidy1117]

Nightwriter wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

So then DAO is not an RPG because the main story, not the side stories was not that good. Is that what your getting at? An RPG has nothing to do with the story, the story is a plus, it has to do with you as a player being connected to your character and ME2 improved with that big time in ME2.

I am not sure what you mean. DA:O was a great RPG because everything, main and side stories, was good.

Of course the proper definition of an RPG is a game in which you play a role, but it has evolved into something more for me, I admit. I now find it synonymous with storytelling and games that offer plot.

Main story was not good at all. Darkspawn where just a crappy rehash of the Bhaalspawn and it was the genric GOOD VS EVIL MONSTERS! Thats been done alot, it was the side stories that where well done, not the main story. One of my fav RPGs is Morrowind, so would you say thats not an RPG because the story is not that good?

[wulf3n]

kraidy1117 wrote...
Realy?Lets see if you don't have Garrus, Jacob and Talis upgrades then three people die right there, one of them is Jack. The more unloyal people you have and less upgrades, the more people wil ldie and Shepard will die because of that.

but apart from the upgrades they don't bring anything that any other random character could do.

Example: if Tali and Legion where the only ones with the skills open up the vents, at the start of the collector base, and if they had died the mission failed.

[Kaynos1972]

ME 1 had a great story, ME 2 not so much. Playing ME 2 is about getting a team together for ONE fight. You spend 90% of the time in ME 2 either recruiting them or doing their loyalty missions.

[RayneMoon]

I agree OP, I enjoy Bioware games because of the awesome RPG elements that they bring. Between KOTOR, Jade Empire, Dragon Age, and Mass Effect they really set a great standard for American RPG style. I really did miss a lot of that feeling in Mass Effect 2. I enjoyed the combat update, but they didn't keep the RPG element of ME1 and add combat, they just sort of replaced RPG with combat.

[smudboy]

kraidy1117 wrote...
*facepalm* I don't insult people often but this comment shows me that you are a complete utter moron. Lets see? Who made it poseable for Nazzara to get killed in ME and made it poseable to get humanity a seat? Shepard. Who was responisble for taking down the colectors and fniding real solid evidence on the reapers and the one who is creating alliances with Geth, Quarians, Krogan and the Rachni? Shepard. Who will be the one who will defeat the Reapers and save the Galaxy? Shepard will.

Just the facts, sir.

Explain to me one thing that Shepard did in ME2 that no one else could, aka, how Shepard is essential to the plot.

[kraidy1117]

wulf3n wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
Realy?Lets see if you don't have Garrus, Jacob and Talis upgrades then three people die right there, one of them is Jack. The more unloyal people you have and less upgrades, the more people wil ldie and Shepard will die because of that.

but apart from the upgrades they don't bring anything that any other random character could do.

Example: if Tali and Legion where the only ones with the skills open up the vents, at the start of the collector base, and if they had died the mission failed.

No, the people you can choose can do it, but they can die, only Legion, Tali and Kasumi can do it and survive, but this depends on who the fireteam leader is and there loyaltie. The more unloyal members you have, the more of a chance you will not survive.

[kraidy1117]

smudboy wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
*facepalm* I don't insult people often but this comment shows me that you are a complete utter moron. Lets see? Who made it poseable for Nazzara to get killed in ME and made it poseable to get humanity a seat? Shepard. Who was responisble for taking down the colectors and fniding real solid evidence on the reapers and the one who is creating alliances with Geth, Quarians, Krogan and the Rachni? Shepard. Who will be the one who will defeat the Reapers and save the Galaxy? Shepard will.

Just the facts, sir.

Explain to me one thing that Shepard did in ME2 that no one else could, aka, how Shepard is essential to the plot.

Well seeing as for the past two years no one has done anything to stop the Collectors, Reapers and such, which Shepard did. He is and taking out Shepard and putting you into the shoes of someone else would ruin the trilogy since it is Shepards story.

[kraidy1117]

Kaynos1972 wrote...

ME 1 had a great story, ME 2 not so much. Playing ME 2 is about getting a team together for ONE fight. You spend 90% of the time in ME 2 either recruiting them or doing their loyalty missions.

And in ME we spent 90% of the game tracking Saren down and fighting Geth. It's part of the story, same as forming an elitie group and making sure they are focused on the mission is part of ME2 story.

[wulf3n]

kraidy1117 wrote...
No, the people you can choose can do it, but they can die, only Legion, Tali and Kasumi can do it and survive, but this depends on who the fireteam leader is and there loyaltie. The more unloyal members you have, the more of a chance you will not survive.

But the mission will still succeed!

none of their skills are UNIQUE, thats the key, they possess the skills, half the galaxy posses, maybe not to the same level, but as shown with the vents, thats only necessary to keep them alive. So why would i need these exact ppl, when i could hire a couple of dozen mercs, who i don't care about and don't feel bad about taking on a suicide mission.

Modifié par wulf3n, 10 avril 2010 - 04:34 .

[Nightwriter]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Main story was not good at all.

Opinion, I politely add.

Darkspawn where just a crappy rehash of the Bhaalspawn and it was the genric GOOD VS EVIL MONSTERS! Thats been done alot, it was the side stories that where well done, not the main story. One of my fav RPGs is Morrowind, so would you say thats not an RPG because the story is not that good?

Right, and the Reapers aren't a generic GOOD VS. EVIL rehash, huh?

And while I know I am following my own classification system here, no, I do not see Morrowind as holding the same tier of RPG as Bioware RPGs. It was a great game, but it's the story and the characters (so much importance in the characters) that bring a game alive to me.

[smudboy]

kraidy1117 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
*facepalm* I don't insult people often but this comment shows me that you are a complete utter moron. Lets see? Who made it poseable for Nazzara to get killed in ME and made it poseable to get humanity a seat? Shepard. Who was responisble for taking down the colectors and fniding real solid evidence on the reapers and the one who is creating alliances with Geth, Quarians, Krogan and the Rachni? Shepard. Who will be the one who will defeat the Reapers and save the Galaxy? Shepard will.

Just the facts, sir.

Explain to me one thing that Shepard did in ME2 that no one else could, aka, how Shepard is essential to the plot.

Well seeing as for the past two years no one has done anything to stop the Collectors, Reapers and such, which Shepard did. He is and taking out Shepard and putting you into the shoes of someone else would ruin the trilogy since it is Shepards story.

This is not about a trilogy or story, but the plot to ME2.  Do you see what I'm getting at now?

Compare and constrast this to ME1's Shepard, Tali and Liara.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I disagree Nightwriter the story of Morrowind was similar to Ultima Quest of the Avatar (Or Exodus? No think Avatar) it was the SETTING that brought Morrowind alive.

[kraidy1117]

wulf3n wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
No, the people you can choose can do it, but they can die, only Legion, Tali and Kasumi can do it and survive, but this depends on who the fireteam leader is and there loyaltie. The more unloyal members you have, the more of a chance you will not survive.

But the mission will still succeed!

none of their skills are UNIQUE, thats the key, the possess the skills, half the galaxy posses, maybe not to the same level, but as shown with the vents, thats only necessary to keep them alive. So why would i need these exact ppl, when i could hire a couple of dozen mercs, who i don't care about and don't feel bad about taking on a suicide mission.

"Haters are going to hate" I love that qoute. You did not like ME2, good for you, not everyone hates it and saying that Shepard could have hired a bunch of mercs is stupid since if your team is not ready or prepared Shepard dies. Yes you defetaed the Collectors, but you still failed in the story because you did not survive and the whole point of the game was to survive the suicide mission.

[kraidy1117]

smudboy wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
*facepalm* I don't insult people often but this comment shows me that you are a complete utter moron. Lets see? Who made it poseable for Nazzara to get killed in ME and made it poseable to get humanity a seat? Shepard. Who was responisble for taking down the colectors and fniding real solid evidence on the reapers and the one who is creating alliances with Geth, Quarians, Krogan and the Rachni? Shepard. Who will be the one who will defeat the Reapers and save the Galaxy? Shepard will.

Just the facts, sir.

Explain to me one thing that Shepard did in ME2 that no one else could, aka, how Shepard is essential to the plot.

Well seeing as for the past two years no one has done anything to stop the Collectors, Reapers and such, which Shepard did. He is and taking out Shepard and putting you into the shoes of someone else would ruin the trilogy since it is Shepards story.

This is not about a trilogy or story, but the plot to ME2.  Do you see what I'm getting at now?

Compare and constrast this to ME1's Shepard, Tali and Liara.

Do you even know what the ME trilogy is about? It's about Shepard. If you can't see that then you are blind, satupid or just want to hate a game or you where expeting a JRPG.

[Onyx Jaguar]

smudboy wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
*facepalm* I don't insult people often but this comment shows me that you are a complete utter moron. Lets see? Who made it poseable for Nazzara to get killed in ME and made it poseable to get humanity a seat? Shepard. Who was responisble for taking down the colectors and fniding real solid evidence on the reapers and the one who is creating alliances with Geth, Quarians, Krogan and the Rachni? Shepard. Who will be the one who will defeat the Reapers and save the Galaxy? Shepard will.

Just the facts, sir.

Explain to me one thing that Shepard did in ME2 that no one else could, aka, how Shepard is essential to the plot.

Anyone could have done it.  But in ME 2 it was Shepard who did it.

[kraidy1117]

Nightwriter wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Main story was not good at all.

Opinion, I politely add.

Darkspawn where just a crappy rehash of the Bhaalspawn and it was the genric GOOD VS EVIL MONSTERS! Thats been done alot, it was the side stories that where well done, not the main story. One of my fav RPGs is Morrowind, so would you say thats not an RPG because the story is not that good?

Right, and the Reapers aren't a generic GOOD VS. EVIL rehash, huh?

And while I know I am following my own classification system here, no, I do not see Morrowind as holding the same tier of RPG as Bioware RPGs. It was a great game, but it's the story and the characters (so much importance in the characters) that bring a game alive to me.

We still don't know why the Reapers are doing what they do, for all we know they could be saving us (it would be cheap but we don't know) The Darkspawn we know are evil creatures bent on desruction. Until ME3 comes out we can't say the Reapers are evil.

[smudboy]

kraidy1117 wrote...
Do you even know what the ME trilogy is about? It's about Shepard. If you can't see that then you are blind, satupid or just want to hate a game or you where expeting a JRPG.

Do you?

I'm referring to the plot of ME2.  You've yet to tell me how Shepard or Miranda is vital to said plot.

Do you know why Shepard, Tali and Liara are vital to the plot of ME1?

[wulf3n]

kraidy1117 wrote...
"Haters are going to hate" I love that qoute. You did not like ME2, good for you, not everyone hates it and saying that Shepard could have hired a bunch of mercs is stupid since if your team is not ready or prepared Shepard dies. Yes you defetaed the Collectors, but you still failed in the story because you did not survive and the whole point of the game was to survive the suicide mission.

When did i say i hated the game?

i just said, that none of the characters brought anything to the suicide mission, that other generic npc couldn't.

Besides, its a suicide mission! there's a strong chance even Shepard is gonna die. You go into the omega 4 relay not expecting to come back! how is it a failure if u die! thats the whole point of a suicide mission you're gonna die.

Modifié par wulf3n, 10 avril 2010 - 04:41 .

[smudboy]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

smudboy wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
*facepalm* I don't insult people often but this comment shows me that you are a complete utter moron. Lets see? Who made it poseable for Nazzara to get killed in ME and made it poseable to get humanity a seat? Shepard. Who was responisble for taking down the colectors and fniding real solid evidence on the reapers and the one who is creating alliances with Geth, Quarians, Krogan and the Rachni? Shepard. Who will be the one who will defeat the Reapers and save the Galaxy? Shepard will.

Just the facts, sir.

Explain to me one thing that Shepard did in ME2 that no one else could, aka, how Shepard is essential to the plot.

Anyone could have done it.  But in ME 2 it was Shepard who did it.

Onyx, why can't everyone answer questions like you? 

[kraidy1117]

smudboy wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
Do you even know what the ME trilogy is about? It's about Shepard. If you can't see that then you are blind, satupid or just want to hate a game or you where expeting a JRPG.

Do you?

I'm referring to the plot of ME2.  You've yet to tell me how Shepard or Miranda is vital to said plot.

Do you know why Shepard, Tali and Liara are vital to the plot of ME1?

The plot of ME2 is part of the trilogy.  I can say the same thing about other stories out there. Kratos is not needed in God of War, Luke is not needed in Star wars, Frodo was not needed in LotR ect. Shepard was the one who took down the Collectors, Miri was needed to make sure he did that and that he was resurcted. Don't pull the whole "how do you know someone else could?" crap. When Shepard was dead no one did anything, Shepard did osmething. He is vital to the story.