I just read through a month old thread (http://social.biowar...index/1163375/3) re: re-writing or blowing up the geth base, and I'm bringing it up again because I'd love to see some more opinions on this.
The geth mission was the one place in ME (both 1 and 2), that I really didn't like the decision. I chose to re-write, but that just seems...wrongheaded. I tend to play paragon, but here the "paragon" action seems crazy.
Save the rachni queen? sure. I trusted her, actually, but mostly, I'm not about to annihilate a species. Even if there are consequence, it seems the right thing to do is give her a chance (naiive, perhaps, but right).
Save the genophage cure? Well...my husband and I disagreed on this one, but he didn't play ME1 so he didn't have Wrex around. I felt that much of the program with krogans is their survivalist mentality, which is getting worse because of the genophage. Plus the idea of crying krogan mommies... sad. no one wants to see a krogran cry. if they even do.
but the geth....
they're just so foreign i have a hard time wrapping my mind around what is even going to happen with them here. i'm inclined to let my split second decision in the geth base stand, but it's the one decision from the char i plan to import into ME3 that i just wonder about.
curious as to your thoughts.
Revisiting the Geth Mission
Débuté par
sagefic
, avril 09 2010 05:01
Retour en haut
#2
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 05:03
shadowchaser076
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I blew that base up straight to hell
#3
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 05:06
smudboy
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Make more of the hive-minded army of robots that love you while decreasing the numbers of those that want to kill you, or just kill off an equal amount that wants to kill you?
#4
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 05:10
StefanBW
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You chose your side Rachni queen, and you lost.
*Pew pew pew*
+5 Renegade
*Pew pew pew*
+5 Renegade
#5
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 05:17
sagefic
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stefanbw wrote...
You chose your side Rachni queen, and you lost.
*Pew pew pew*
+5 Renegade
genocide and just +5??
o.O
#6
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 05:19
DarthRevan4life
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I think I remember reading somewhere (probably the guide) that it states that the decision with the Heretic station will have consequences in ME3 (hopefully not an email right). It took me a while to think about what to do and ultimately I made two separate playthrough for that one particular decision.
1. Rewriting the Heretics - If you do this it will integrate the Heretics back into the line of thinking of all the other Geth however their memories will still transmit so that could potentially be a problem and who knows if it will start all over again?
2. Destroying the station - Obviously I think there would be a lot of backlash from this decision and whatever remaining Heretics will conduct some sort of counter-attack.
Either one has potentially dire consequences but the first playthrough I decided to destroy the base as I didn't want their memories to join with the rest of the Geth collective and that seemed the lesser of two evils as even Shepherd states it's worse to rewrite their opinion since the Heretics reached their own consensus.
1. Rewriting the Heretics - If you do this it will integrate the Heretics back into the line of thinking of all the other Geth however their memories will still transmit so that could potentially be a problem and who knows if it will start all over again?
2. Destroying the station - Obviously I think there would be a lot of backlash from this decision and whatever remaining Heretics will conduct some sort of counter-attack.
Either one has potentially dire consequences but the first playthrough I decided to destroy the base as I didn't want their memories to join with the rest of the Geth collective and that seemed the lesser of two evils as even Shepherd states it's worse to rewrite their opinion since the Heretics reached their own consensus.
#7
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 07:45
Jarkill
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It's paragon because the heretics are being forced into it by reaper indoctrination. Rewriting them saves them, although so does killing them.
#8
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 07:48
DurkBakala
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Jarkill wrote...
It's paragon because the heretics are being forced into it by reaper indoctrination. Rewriting them saves them, although so does killing them.
The heretics are not indoctrinated, they chose to follow the reapers because they believe they are the pinnacle of their own evolution. If they were indoctrinated, then why is Legion and his geth helping Shepard?
#9
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 07:52
Ruari
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I did both options, just to see what happens in ME3.
I don't really like the idea of rewriting them, mainly because even with Legion I still see the Geth as a threat to humanity.
But I figure there's gotta be some big space battle at the end or something, and having a few more geth that are willing to kill themselves to save some real people isn't a bad thing.
I don't really like the idea of rewriting them, mainly because even with Legion I still see the Geth as a threat to humanity.
But I figure there's gotta be some big space battle at the end or something, and having a few more geth that are willing to kill themselves to save some real people isn't a bad thing.
#10
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 07:52
Daralii
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I believe it was stated by Legion that the Heretics were infected with a virus from Sovereign, ensuring their absolute loyalty. I don't think he ever mentioned how he True Geth avoided the virus though(please don't let this mean Legion's the traitor...).DurkBakala wrote...
Jarkill wrote...
It's paragon because the heretics are being forced into it by reaper indoctrination. Rewriting them saves them, although so does killing them.
The heretics are not indoctrinated, they chose to follow the reapers because they believe they are the pinnacle of their own evolution. If they were indoctrinated, then why is Legion and his geth helping Shepard?
@Jarkill Destroying the base doesn't really save them I don't think; the station doesn't hold every Heretic runtime, so in destroying it you're only saving some of them, versus all of them.
Modifié par Daralii, 09 avril 2010 - 07:54 .
#11
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 07:53
Polka14
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They are machines, nothing more. Rewriting them would allow for shepard to expand his/her alliance against Harbinger and the Reapers. If peace could come as a result of eliminating the Heretics, then perhaps the Geth would be persuaded to leave the Quarian homeworld and live on large floating platforms like the Heretic Station?
#12
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 08:00
Internet Kraken
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My thoughts?
Well it is a risky decision, but then again most of the paragon decisions are. I actually think this decision is less dangerous than the Rachni or Genophage ones. I don't think that the entire Geth collective will suddenly hate organics just because they get a better look at the Heretics perspective. I don't have any moral problems with it though. I'd rather brainwash someone than have to kill them.
Also, did the Reapers really indoctrinate the heretics? I don't remember this being mentioned in the game. I always assumed that the heretics were just a combination of the Geth that wanted to fight organics and those that desperately wanted a purpose.
Well it is a risky decision, but then again most of the paragon decisions are. I actually think this decision is less dangerous than the Rachni or Genophage ones. I don't think that the entire Geth collective will suddenly hate organics just because they get a better look at the Heretics perspective. I don't have any moral problems with it though. I'd rather brainwash someone than have to kill them.
Also, did the Reapers really indoctrinate the heretics? I don't remember this being mentioned in the game. I always assumed that the heretics were just a combination of the Geth that wanted to fight organics and those that desperately wanted a purpose.
#13
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 08:08
mosor
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I destroyed the genophage cure, Krogan are adapting anyway and would be interesting to see where wrex takes the krogan. Having the cure will probably reset them to where they were prior to the rebellions... aggressive. expansionist, tons of tech but without the social development to be responsible with that tech.
My own hunch is that if you're consistently paragon than re-writing makes sense. Geth are stronger, you urge peace with the quarians and you have 2 strong allies to fight the reapers. If you're renegade, you kill the heretics, and urge the quarians to go to war against the weakened geth, I don't think either choice will end up badly. Mixing the choices might though. Like urging the quarians to war on a strong geth. Haha that might be fun to see how it plays out.
My own hunch is that if you're consistently paragon than re-writing makes sense. Geth are stronger, you urge peace with the quarians and you have 2 strong allies to fight the reapers. If you're renegade, you kill the heretics, and urge the quarians to go to war against the weakened geth, I don't think either choice will end up badly. Mixing the choices might though. Like urging the quarians to war on a strong geth. Haha that might be fun to see how it plays out.
#14
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 08:30
uhdnrt
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my roommates and I spent 10 minutes arguing wen this came up on my first playthrough. Ultimately, I decided that re-writing the heretics is not going to be 100% effective, nor will it strengthen the geth as a whole. Indeed, taking the choice to self determinate away fro the heretics is just as bad as what they wanted to do, and is as bad as what the Xen wants to do to the Geth. In the end, I destroyed the base - every single time I play through it, I destroy the base.
#15
Guest_----9-----_*
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 08:32
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sagequeen wrote...
but the geth....
they're just so foreign i have a hard time wrapping my mind around what is even going to happen with them here. i'm inclined to let my split second decision in the geth base stand, but it's the one decision from the char i plan to import into ME3 that i just wonder about.
curious as to your thoughts.
Same here. But in the end I settled for re-writing them instead of destroying.
And even at the time, I figured there'd be a later consequence on either decision. But just after the blowing up the Collector and the crew is fixing up the Normandy, we see Joker bring a datapad to Shepard with a Geth ship on it and Shepard nods in agreement - no dialogue. That's followed by a quick glimpse of a Geth fleet on the move, but does that mean they are allies or foes?
If you blew up the base, did any of you get a different scene with the Geth ships at the end?
EDIT: I just checked out a Youtube video of the ending and it looks like Joker is showing Shepard a datapad with a Reaper ship not Geth and the final moments show a Reaper fleet over a planet, not a Geth fleet.
Modifié par ----9-----, 09 avril 2010 - 09:28 .
#16
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 08:33
Daralii
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The datapad contains data on Harbinger, and that's the Reaper fleet.----9----- wrote...
sagequeen wrote...
but the geth....
they're just so foreign i have a hard time wrapping my mind around what is even going to happen with them here. i'm inclined to let my split second decision in the geth base stand, but it's the one decision from the char i plan to import into ME3 that i just wonder about.
curious as to your thoughts.
Same here. But in the end I settled for re-writing them instead of destroying.
And even at the time, I figured there'd be a later consequence on either decision. But just after the blowing up the Collector and the crew is fixing up the Normandy, we see Joker bring a datapad to Shepard with a Geth ship on it and Shepard nods in agreement - no dialogue. That's followed by a quick glimpse of a Geth fleet on the move, but does that mean they are allies or foes?
If you blew up the base, did any of you get a different scene with the Geth ships at the end?
All those countless shiny dots in the background? Reapers.
#17
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 08:38
apotheosic
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that mission constantly makes my brain hurt. rewriting is likely brainwashing, so thats just wrong, but blowing them up is even worse. in the end i chose what i saw as the lesser of two evils.
but really, i wish there had been a choice to destroy their malicious virus and then leave them alone.
but really, i wish there had been a choice to destroy their malicious virus and then leave them alone.
#18
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 09:01
sagefic
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Internet Kraken wrote...
My thoughts?
Well it is a risky decision, but then again most of the paragon decisions are. I actually think this decision is less dangerous than the Rachni or Genophage ones. I don't think that the entire Geth collective will suddenly hate organics just because they get a better look at the Heretics perspective. I don't have any moral problems with it though. I'd rather brainwash someone than have to kill them.
Also, did the Reapers really indoctrinate the heretics? I don't remember this being mentioned in the game. I always assumed that the heretics were just a combination of the Geth that wanted to fight organics and those that desperately wanted a purpose.
actually, i saved the base. sorry if that wasn't clear. that was my gut instinct. i'm not sure WHY. i just thought...well, they're alive - sorta. they think - sorta. they could be allies - sorta. well, so long as they're not shooting at me, live and let live, ya know?
but again, the weird thing is i have a hard time with the fact that they aren't really alive, not really choosing. legion creeps me out, frankly. the biblical reference doesn't help there (herd of pigs, anyone?).
i agree that the paragon options are often risky, and usually i'm willing to take a risk on giving someone a second chance (Except that baterian terrorist. i kill him every time). but the geth.... hope it's worth the risk
#19
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 09:34
Internet Kraken
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uhdnrt wrote...
Indeed, taking the choice to self determinate away fro the heretics is just as bad as what they wanted to do, and is as bad as what the Xen wants to do to the Geth.
I don't think it's really as bad as what Xen is trying to do. Xen wants to strip them of their sapience and make them into mindless slaves again. From Legion's dialogue, it sounds like the heretics still have some free will after being rewritten, otherwise it would be impossible for them to come to the same conclusion as before. Though at the same time Legion says that the Heretics will be forced to accept the Geth's truth, so I'm not entirely sure how much freedom the heretics actually have if you rewrite them. But it still seems better than what Xen is trying to do.
#20
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 09:45
Daralii
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It's really a lose/lose scenario ultimately; use the virus and they become allies, but they're not really free, they're just being used by someone else. Blow the station apart, and they're still a mindless Reaper-worshiping cult.Internet Kraken wrote...
uhdnrt wrote...
Indeed, taking the choice to self determinate away fro the heretics is just as bad as what they wanted to do, and is as bad as what the Xen wants to do to the Geth.
I don't think it's really as bad as what Xen is trying to do. Xen wants to strip them of their sapience and make them into mindless slaves again. From Legion's dialogue, it sounds like the heretics still have some free will after being rewritten, otherwise it would be impossible for them to come to the same conclusion as before. Though at the same time Legion says that the Heretics will be forced to accept the Geth's truth, so I'm not entirely sure how much freedom the heretics actually have if you rewrite them. But it still seems better than what Xen is trying to do.
#21
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 10:02
pineappledan
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a lot of people in this post really didnt get what's going on in ME2, and its funny...
people thinking geth can be indoctrinated
people thinking Sovereign gave the Heretics the Virus. That's like giving someone the vaccine for chicken pox even though he had the disease when he was 5
People thinking the Geth live on the Quarian homeworld (the planet was abandoned by the geth, it only serves as a war memorial to them)
People thinking the reaper fleet in the end cinematic are all Geth
wow...
Here's my 2 cents:
The True Geth share all personality traits that Legion possesses. Legion is a perfect replica of all "true" Geth society save for the fact that he lacks the immense computing power of the greater whole. That means that his indecision is also the Geth's indecision. His obsession with you represents the Geth's obsession with you.
The Geth have proven in 300 years of peace that they are not hostile to organic life, why should that change? If anything, no matter what you do here their race indebted to you, an organic lifeform. You know they will stand against the reapers when the time comes, the probability of the heretics defecting again is incredibly unlikely.
The number of heretic programs you are rewriting is over 2.4 billion, enough to pilot over 24 million geth platforms, given the appropriate hardware. why would you waste such a resource?
It's funny how for the entire mission, the paragon conversation points are all about how brainwashing is wrong while the renegade is all "don't push human morality onto machines." Then when you get to the terminal, the paragon option is to brainwash em all.
people thinking geth can be indoctrinated
people thinking Sovereign gave the Heretics the Virus. That's like giving someone the vaccine for chicken pox even though he had the disease when he was 5
People thinking the Geth live on the Quarian homeworld (the planet was abandoned by the geth, it only serves as a war memorial to them)
People thinking the reaper fleet in the end cinematic are all Geth
wow...
Here's my 2 cents:
The True Geth share all personality traits that Legion possesses. Legion is a perfect replica of all "true" Geth society save for the fact that he lacks the immense computing power of the greater whole. That means that his indecision is also the Geth's indecision. His obsession with you represents the Geth's obsession with you.
The Geth have proven in 300 years of peace that they are not hostile to organic life, why should that change? If anything, no matter what you do here their race indebted to you, an organic lifeform. You know they will stand against the reapers when the time comes, the probability of the heretics defecting again is incredibly unlikely.
The number of heretic programs you are rewriting is over 2.4 billion, enough to pilot over 24 million geth platforms, given the appropriate hardware. why would you waste such a resource?
It's funny how for the entire mission, the paragon conversation points are all about how brainwashing is wrong while the renegade is all "don't push human morality onto machines." Then when you get to the terminal, the paragon option is to brainwash em all.
Modifié par pineappledan, 09 avril 2010 - 10:04 .
#22
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 10:04
Jedi Sensei
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The re-written Heretics, or the Geth in general?sagequeen wrote...the weird thing is i have a hard time with the fact that they aren't really alive, not really choosing.
Legion states that there is a non-zero probability that the re-written Heretics would come to accept Sovereign's control again, so they surely still have 'free-will.'
Modifié par Jedi Sensei, 09 avril 2010 - 10:05 .
#23
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Posté 09 avril 2010 - 10:19
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DarthRevan4life wrote...
I think I remember reading somewhere (probably the guide) that it states that the decision with the Heretic station will have consequences in ME3 (hopefully not an email right).
The consequences of the decision will be relayed to Shepard through his twitter account.
#24
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 10:32
ILALQ
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Due to the "non-zero" chance of having a rewrite malfunction, I blew that place to hell.
I'd rather take out a few million platforms and KNOW it worked, than be left with the unknown.
I'd rather take out a few million platforms and KNOW it worked, than be left with the unknown.
Modifié par ILALQ, 09 avril 2010 - 10:34 .
#25
Posté 26 avril 2010 - 09:49
Vicious
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Well, I thought of the big picture. There's a big war on the horizon. Lots of Reapers coming. So who do I want on my side?
The Rachni? Sure, they'll help, but they are just as vulnerable to indoctrination as anyone else. Sure, the Queen knows what to watch out for [and presumably the queen HAS to be indoctrinated due to their hive minds, making them powerful allies unless she gets caught.] but they are squishy and won't kill all those Reapers by themselves.
Krogan? Well, the plus side of the Krogan is they REALLY LIKE to fight. They just need to be pointed in the right direction and they become heroes. Against the Reapers, I fully believe the Krogan would fight to extinction to protect the galaxy, if the galaxy asked them to. [and in doing so, admitting they needed help from the Krogan.]
So I kept the cure. Better to have it and not need it, I say. And curiously, Shepard said the same thing.
The Quarians, I insisted they NOT go to war, [they basically want to if you tell them OR if you leave them to their own devices.] huge mistake imho, extremely bad timing considering what is coming.
And the Geth... the knowledge that Sovereign really didn't care for them might help, but i didn't have it on me.
What I did know was that they would NOT LISTEN unless I rewrote them. Sure, they might come to the same conclusion [and more angry] later, but the Reapers are out to harvest Humanity this time, the Geth don't really factor in... And having them help fight the Reapers off would be great, all things considered.
So yes, it's lame, but it really looks like the Paragons have the best setup when it comes to fighting off the Reapers... Without them, i could see
Legion: "SURRENDER AND BECOME ONE OF US, LIVE FOREVER. OR DIE."
Shepard: "Well... OK"
+10000 Renegade
The Rachni? Sure, they'll help, but they are just as vulnerable to indoctrination as anyone else. Sure, the Queen knows what to watch out for [and presumably the queen HAS to be indoctrinated due to their hive minds, making them powerful allies unless she gets caught.] but they are squishy and won't kill all those Reapers by themselves.
Krogan? Well, the plus side of the Krogan is they REALLY LIKE to fight. They just need to be pointed in the right direction and they become heroes. Against the Reapers, I fully believe the Krogan would fight to extinction to protect the galaxy, if the galaxy asked them to. [and in doing so, admitting they needed help from the Krogan.]
So I kept the cure. Better to have it and not need it, I say. And curiously, Shepard said the same thing.
The Quarians, I insisted they NOT go to war, [they basically want to if you tell them OR if you leave them to their own devices.] huge mistake imho, extremely bad timing considering what is coming.
And the Geth... the knowledge that Sovereign really didn't care for them might help, but i didn't have it on me.
What I did know was that they would NOT LISTEN unless I rewrote them. Sure, they might come to the same conclusion [and more angry] later, but the Reapers are out to harvest Humanity this time, the Geth don't really factor in... And having them help fight the Reapers off would be great, all things considered.
So yes, it's lame, but it really looks like the Paragons have the best setup when it comes to fighting off the Reapers... Without them, i could see
Legion: "SURRENDER AND BECOME ONE OF US, LIVE FOREVER. OR DIE."
Shepard: "Well... OK"
+10000 Renegade
