120 réponses à ce sujet

[Malfurus]

Nukenin, you are in no way shape or form posting anything related to this topic but rather trying to futilely sound intelligent, so stop posting unless you have something intelligent to say or if you'd like to also express a concern REGARDING the game.

[Halkus]

Nukenin wrote...

Halkus wrote...

I have no agenda other than expressing my opinion, which I'm trying to do as best as I can.
[…]

Oh, you were expressing an opinion.  My bad.  I mistook it (e.g., "What concerns me is the silent disabling of game features.") for conspiracist rambling presented as fact.  

My opinion is that my conspiracist rambling is fact

Of course it's my opinion, I don't have access to the source code so I can't see what's there.

[Nukenin]

Malfurus wrote...

Nukenin, you are in no way shape or form posting anything related to this topic but rather trying to futilely sound intelligent, so stop posting unless you have something intelligent to say or if you'd like to also express a concern REGARDING the game.

Something intelligent: You can't definitively declare a suspected unchecked memory consumption issue is a "memory leak" without access to the source to confirm it (at which point you'd also probably know where to address the issue).

A concern REGARDING the game: What will patch 1.04 break and will it fix enough?

Modifié par Nukenin, 12 avril 2010 - 12:00 .

[TheGrayWarden]

The only issue I see is how people are ranting at the developers and creators,from what I've heard Bioware was rushed into shipping DA:O and the Awakening DLC,in such case they most likely were not granted the necessary time to check and further fix the game.

Edit:Of course I may be wrong,so pl0x don't flame me.

Modifié par TheGrayWarden, 11 avril 2010 - 09:36 .

[Nukenin]

Halkus wrote...

My opinion is that my conspiracist rambling is fact

Of course it's my opinion, I don't have access to the source code so I can't see what's there.

Having seen the source code regarding the stealing (and dog find) issue and the +healing received not working issue, I can say that in my opinion their current broken states are not due to intentional sabotage on the part of Bioware conspiring against the player.

In the case of stealing (and dog find), a change was made to the code handling monster treasure/coin drops that unfortunately impacted stealing and dog find (the same routine is used to generate stolen/found items directly on the player).  This happened in 1.03 to the best of my knowledge and will hopefully be addressed in 1.04 since it's a popular issue.

In the case of +healing received not working, this was due to healing effect factor being changed from a 1.0 base (multiplier to healing total)  to a 100.0 base (the same value expressed as a percentage).  Unfortunately, the routines that initialize this base value were not changed for either creatures or the player and companions.  This probably would have been noticed more readily if total healing effect factor values less than 100.0 weren't rounded up to 100.0 before being utilized to adjust healing.  To my knowledge, this has been the case since v1.00 of Dragon Age (i.e. it was not recently introduced as a new glitch in 1.03).

[Halkus]

A memory leak is one thing you can say is happening if the game consumes more and more RAM, and slows down. Sorry but that's probably not the best example for you to have picked to illustrate your point.



Certainly you could argue that disabling stealing was not deliberate, but was in fact an oversight. Then you could argue (as all developers do) that they desperately want to fix stuff but the publishers need to QA stuff and they meet the bills for it etc etc... At the end of the day it doesn't bother me if it's Bioware, or EA, or a combination at fault, the game I bought is defective and while it doesn't ruin the game entirely, it's frankly unacceptable at this stage that patches break so much and yet are still released.



Mr Grey Warden, you're probably right. However nobody ever wants to release a product, they all run late, they all need polishing and unless publishers hit the red button and said "You WILL release in 2 weeks. Finish up" then things would never get released. There's always content cut, there's always remnants of the content remaining that hardcore fans find. There's always crippling bugs for some class combinations that get fixed later... or that get introduced.



Sadly it's always the way and it's probably what I needed to remind myself of by buying Dragon Age early(ish).



Had I waited until 2011 I suspect the bugs would either be fixed, or kind people like Nukenin would have released, and honed user made fixes to the point where the game runs perfect. Not only that... but it's cheaper too!

[Nukenin]

TheGrayWarden wrote...

The only issue I see is how people are ranting at the developers and creators,from what I've heard Bioware was rushed into shipping DA:O and the Awakening DLC,in such case they most likely were not granted the necessary time to check and further fix the game.
[…]

It's my suspicion that this is why 1.04 is (in the opinion of some, I'd wager) "taking too long".  They're putting a more substantial QA/testing process behind it.  1.03 was probably rushed due to being required for Awakening.

[thepiebaker]

[Nukenin]

Halkus wrote...

A memory leak is one thing you can say is happening if the game consumes more and more RAM, and slows down. Sorry but that's probably not the best example for you to have picked to illustrate your point.
[…]

It's a possibility, but not the only possibility.  It's what "the people" know though, so it's almost become a generic descriptor for any unchecked memory consumption issue.  Saying willy-nilly "it's a memory leak" whenever this situation may be occurring just bolsters the common (mis)perception.

Since I don't perceive the issue on my PC, at least not to any point of severe performance impact, I'm wondering if it could be exacerbated by memory consumption issues in pertinent device drivers.  I have had a couple fluke crashes since 1.03/Awakening but also have had a couple fluke crashes in the past.  In most of these, I had alt-TABbed out and back, usually with several applications like Chrome and Photoshop running.

I also get the occasional "slow loading" of saves or areas.  Since there is a distinct difference between these "slow loads" and the norm (but not so savage as some folks seem to be experiencing; I'm just hypersensitive), I simply exit the game completely and restart.  Whatever it is doesn't seem to be impacting the actual game saves proper, so I'm back to quick(er) loads of saves and areas.

So there may be some unchecked memory consumption issue, and it may be directly due to the game's failure to release allocated memory no longer needed, in which case, yes, there may be a memory leak.  But I can't jump from that to "it's a memory leak" without knowing for sure.   I could say "it's probably a memory leak" or "it's a memory leak in my opinion" or "I bet it's a memory leak".  Semantics, yes. 

I'm just futilely trying to sound intelligent, after all. 

Modifié par Nukenin, 11 avril 2010 - 10:04 .

[Halkus]

Nukenin wrote...
In the case of stealing (and dog find), a change was made to the code handling monster treasure/coin drops that unfortunately impacted stealing and dog find (the same routine is used to generate stolen/found items directly on the player).  This happened in 1.03 to the best of my knowledge and will hopefully be addressed in 1.04 since it's a popular issue.

In the case of +healing received not working, this was due to healing effect factor being changed from a 1.0 base (multiplier to healing total)  to a 100.0 base (the same value expressed as a percentage).  Unfortunately, the routines that initialize this base value were not changed for either creatures or the player and companions.  This probably would have been noticed more readily if total healing effect factor values less than 100.0 weren't rounded up to 100.0 before being utilized to adjust healing.  To my knowledge, this has been the case since v1.00 of Dragon Age (i.e. it was not recently introduced as a new glitch in 1.03).

This reply is out of sync because your replied about the same time as I replied....

Anyway, I'll try to bring our discussion up to date.

Clearly because you've been able to fix the stealing issue, the dog issue (I didn't even know there was one! He's found a few gifts, and a few other things for me... what else is he supposed to do?) and the healing issue then you know more about it than I do. I'm quite happy to accept your explanation that it's an oversight.

However... this makes it even worse. They release a patch which breaks parts of the game and they first of all don't QA it and spot it, secondly they don't rush a fix out, and thirdly they don't recall the patch.

If you can fix it then I'm pretty sure Bioware could fix it too. Healing effects not working? Let's work out why... oh there it is. This file needs replaced.... and there it is... replaced.

As games become more and more internet linked there's really no reason at all why small patches can't come out all the time. Look at MMORPGs, they patch sometimes daily, and that's on a live server with thousands of players.

There's no reason at all why Bioware can't have a few thousand volunteer beta patch testers who get their patches a few days earlier than the rest of us, and they patch things as they go.

Anyway, perhaps your definition of memory leak is different to mine.... but if the game has to do a whole lot more disk swapping, yet takes up more memory and progressively gets worse... and not only that but is fixed by closing and restarting.. that's a memory leak. I am not aware of any other possible explanation.

For all I know though it could be related to specific device drivers, and not Bioware's fault at all. It could be related to third party software that Bioware have put in to handle the DRM on the DLC. It could be anything really, but if performance degrades over time, and more memory is used.. it's a memory leak. It could be made worse by Windows seeing that a lot of the reserved memory isn't being used and cutting back on it... who knows.

As for me it doesn't crash very often, however I can get lazy and think "oh one more area move and I'll reload" and eventually it will crash. On the other hand though I'm hardly a typical user. I have Firefox with 30 tabs open, including a very complicated one which is very javascript heavy as it controls a remote server. I have other connections to a remote server open, more than one FTP client, Foobar, VLC and MPC, email, etc etc etc...

[Nukenin]

Halkus wrote...

[…]
Clearly because you've been able to fix the stealing issue, the dog issue (I didn't even know there was one! He's found a few gifts, and a few other things for me... what else is he supposed to do?) and the healing issue then you know more about it than I do. I'm quite happy to accept your explanation that it's an oversight.
[…]

Dog is supposed to find (occasionally) mundane items like elfroot and iron rings and the like.  He was only doing this if you had no money.  Triggered by the exact same chunk of code that was breaking the stealing of mundane items (unless you had no coins).

However... this makes it even worse. They release a patch which breaks parts of the game and they first of all don't QA it and spot it, secondly they don't rush a fix out, and thirdly they don't recall the patch.

They released 1.03 because it was required for Awakening, which had the set release date.  I definitely suspect a deficient QA process for the 1.03 release.  They can't recall the patch because it's required for Awakening.  If they rush a fix out then they are guilty of a deficient (or nonexistent) QA process for that as well.  I'm hoping that they are putting 1.04 through the paces to ensure glitches like the stealing flub with 1.03 don't happen again.  It'd be nice if they could offer a reassurance but they got burnt by that with the various Return to Ostagar release snafus.

If you can fix it then I'm pretty sure Bioware could fix it too. Healing effects not working? Let's work out why... oh there it is. This file needs replaced.... and there it is... replaced.

It's easier for a schmuck like me since I don't have the expectation of running everything through a QA process or supporting what I release in any professional capacity.

As games become more and more internet linked there's really no reason at all why small patches can't come out all the time. Look at MMORPGs, they patch sometimes daily, and that's on a live server with thousands of players.

There's no reason at all why Bioware can't have a few thousand volunteer beta patch testers who get their patches a few days earlier than the rest of us, and they patch things as they go.

The management of all of this would be a reason, especially if you end up undoing patch bits without the unanimous consensus of these beta patch testers.  It's better to just have a good, extensive, thorough QA process in place.  It's best to just not have these bugs to begin with.

Anyway, perhaps your definition of memory leak is different to mine.... but if the game has to do a whole lot more disk swapping, yet takes up more memory and progressively gets worse... and not only that but is fixed by closing and restarting.. that's a memory leak. I am not aware of any other possible explanation.

Like I said, it's thrown around enough that it's become a generic descriptor.  A memory leak is when memory is allocated that is not properly released when no longer needed.  But other issues can produce the same symptoms; any defect in design that has the application allocate excessive amounts of memory (even if such memory is properly released when no longer needed) can have a similar impact.

Still, it's just petty semantics on my part.  I know full well that people use "memory leak" in these situations, it's pedantic to be a stickler for the precise definition, especially when it probably is a memory leak.  

For all I know though it could be related to specific device drivers, and not Bioware's fault at all. It could be related to third party software that Bioware have put in to handle the DRM on the DLC. It could be anything really, but if performance degrades over time, and more memory is used.. it's a memory leak. It could be made worse by Windows seeing that a lot of the reserved memory isn't being used and cutting back on it... who knows.

As for me it doesn't crash very often, however I can get lazy and think "oh one more area move and I'll reload" and eventually it will crash. On the other hand though I'm hardly a typical user. I have Firefox with 30 tabs open, including a very complicated one which is very javascript heavy as it controls a remote server. I have other connections to a remote server open, more than one FTP client, Foobar, VLC and MPC, email, etc etc etc...

It could be something in a certain subset of users' systems that is exacerbated by something Dragon Age does, or vice the versa, something Dragon Age does that is exacerbated by a certain subset of users' systems.

There's nothing like having to support software running on the diversity of hardware that constitute PCs, under the complexity of OS that is Windows, especially when older Windows versions have to be factored in.

Even if 1.04 fixes things for most of us, there are probably still going to be a sad subset who still have inexplicable problems (some of whom may have even not had such problems in 1.03).

But back to the original topic, yeah, it'd be nice to have Dexterity working "as intended" on the console versions.  If a 1.04 happens and this fix doesn't happen in 1.04 for console users, I'd be upset.   (I'm surprised the Dex fix wasn't rolled into 1.03 at least since it was supposed to incorporate the previous fixes from 1.01/1.02.)

Modifié par Nukenin, 11 avril 2010 - 11:07 .

[Halkus]

While I've got your attention... since you seem to hold the answers...



There are other item properties that I'm not sure work... or not. Does increasing/decreasing hostility work? I seem to remember reading somewhere that it doesn't, but I'm frankly not sure. Ideally if you could point me at a reliable list of stuff that doesn't work it'd help



Having seen periodic patches for single player (or at least no central server) games, and patches for MMORPGs then patches on the MMORPGs is a better method. Really all you need is a delivery system, which they already have to verify the DLC, and a way to test it, which you have by giving a number of people beta access (and if they want a smaller number alpha access) so that you for example spot the stealing problem, fix it, and it appears as DLC for the alpha people. They install it and let you know that everything seems to be working... a few days later the beta people get it and if they don't report problems a week later the normal people get it. It provides better QA than anything in house could, and since Bioware are very very firmly in the DLC and DRM route for content, it's not a huge issue for them to deal with minor stuff that way.



Anyway, I now understand why they came out with the 1.03 patch... awakening depends on it, so they can't go back from it.

[Cancermeat]

This one wants to put on his troll costume. Wait a minute Nilbog is Goblin spelled backwards!!!!

[Nukenin]

Halkus wrote...

[…]
There are other item properties that I'm not sure work... or not. Does increasing/decreasing hostility work? I seem to remember reading somewhere that it doesn't, but I'm frankly not sure. Ideally if you could point me at a reliable list of stuff that doesn't work it'd help
[…]

I haven't looked into the issues with hostility modification or other suspect item properties.  I blindly equip such items as if their effects actually performed as described, thinking that if I believe hard enough, they'll work.  

As for a list of such things, possibly a discussion thread here or elsewhere.  I usually avoid such things just to keep myself from yet more puzzles about why X doesn't work and how it could possibly be fixed.

[13Dannyboy13]

I am really starting to doubt that they have any intention of fixing this game. The 1.03 patch was released for the expansion and nothing else, we've been waiting six months for fixes for problems present since day one, and they haven't done a thing except release more buggy or useless stuff to get our money. I mean they didn't even include previous fixes in the 1.03 patch that we've been waiting for for months now. After six months of nothing except a few vague posts that never produced anything, I have no choice but to conclude that they really don't give two sh*ts about fixing this game unless they can get money out of it somehow. I just hope they realize how many once loyal fans have completely lost respect for them.

[C9316]

Malfurus wrote...

 You sorry excuse for a company still have NOT fixed the DEXTERITY issue on the PS3 version...I WANT MY DAMN FREAKIN MONEY BACK! I got this game so I can make a rogue, the fact that I can't play the rogue that I wish to play because of YOUR inadequecy and ill care REALLY upsets me. I WANT MY DAMN MONEY BACK! 

OMG just go freakin look at ALL the bugs people have experienced since, forget Origins, awakening came out, you guys are freakin ridiculous. Its like we're your beta tester, pull your damn self together, get a bigger team and RETURN MY MONEY! 

this is why immature children with anger issues shouldn't even play video games seriously chill the heck out indirectly yelling at Bioware isn't gonna get them to fix the PS3 dexterity glitch any faster.

[Malfurus]

Yes yes agreed, and please everyone whos so baffled by these bugs that other customers are raving about, take a moment and go look at all the glitches present not in just the PC version but the PS3 version of Origins and Awakenings, just go to the Forums and be grateful you're not one of these customers experiencing these issues. You will know EXACTLY why those who are experiencing these issues, which is a rather large number of us, are getting so frustrated with the lack of consideration, communication, and time that is put into these problems. BIOWARE....FAIL. Sorry...just FAIL. Awesome games, but horrible customer service and the way you went about delivering these games...FAIL Like I said, I can't return my game because I won't get the full refund if anything at all, so I WANT MY MONEY BACK. I expect a message from one of the moderators asking for my address, and check to be mailed in the mail in this coming week. Psh. .

Modifié par Malfurus, 12 avril 2010 - 05:25 .

[Malfurus]

C9316 wrote...

Malfurus wrote...

 You sorry excuse for a company still have NOT fixed the DEXTERITY issue on the PS3 version...I WANT MY DAMN FREAKIN MONEY BACK! I got this game so I can make a rogue, the fact that I can't play the rogue that I wish to play because of YOUR inadequecy and ill care REALLY upsets me. I WANT MY DAMN MONEY BACK! 

OMG just go freakin look at ALL the bugs people have experienced since, forget Origins, awakening came out, you guys are freakin ridiculous. Its like we're your beta tester, pull your damn self together, get a bigger team and RETURN MY MONEY! 

this is why immature children with anger issues shouldn't even play video games seriously chill the heck out indirectly yelling at Bioware isn't gonna get them to fix the PS3 dexterity glitch any faster.

Sure is gonna help me release some steam though, if you got a problem with that, find the nearest grave and jump in it and don't bother reading these posts. 

[I Valente I]

13Dannyboy13 wrote...

I Valente I wrote...

I love this thread. I have a ps3. I have played through completely with my rogue, dual wielding daggers. I'm not sure what exactly is keeping you from making a rogue....but it's definitely not the dex bug....

The dex bug makes the game not add any multiplier for dex at all, which means daggers and bows do less damage than they should. Knowing how much damage should be done then seeing how much you actually do because of the bug really takes away from it. Sure you can make a dex rogue, but the damage is really not what it should be and it really takes away from the build. Besides that, there has been a fix for months, but they have not given us anything on consoles except for a useless achievement patch.

right my friend,  I'm aware of what the dex bug is. What I'm saying is that the dex bug doesn't at all keep you from making, and enjoying a dex-based rogue. So I can't do as much damage as I should be doing, I can live with that, my rogue still out damages almost everyone in my party. It doesn't make the game unplayable, it's not game-breaking, and I pity anyone who wants to make a rogue but is waiting until they fix the so-called horrible game breaking bug that makes rogues unplayable.

I do, however, agree with you that it is horrible that there STILL hasn't been a patch. But that's no reason to stop enjoying the game.

[Malfurus]

Valente, with all due respect, tell that to my archer rogue who hardly does any damage compared to my other classes and is rendered useless once their stamina runs out, which is after..oh say...after two shots maybe? Then I'm doing 34 on auto hits, seriously? 

Edit: This is 34 on auto hit at lvl 19 fyi. 

Modifié par Malfurus, 12 avril 2010 - 05:34 .

[DragonShepard138]

Malfurus wrote...

Valente, with all due respect, tell that to my archer rogue who hardly does any damage compared to my other classes and is rendered useless once their stamina runs out, which is after..oh say...after two shots maybe? Then I'm doing 34 on auto hits, seriously? 

Edit: This is 34 on auto hit at lvl 19 fyi. 

Why so low I wonder, what are your stats for dexterity and strength? What bow are you using?

[oblivionenss]

Malfurus wrote...

Valente, with all due respect, tell that to my archer rogue who hardly does any damage compared to my other classes and is rendered useless once their stamina runs out, which is after..oh say...after two shots maybe? Then I'm doing 34 on auto hits, seriously? 

Edit: This is 34 on auto hit at lvl 19 fyi. 

get some willpower up to get some more stamina then.

And what bow are you using??

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Malfurus wrote...

Valente, with all due respect, tell that to my archer rogue who hardly does any damage compared to my other classes and is rendered useless once their stamina runs out, which is after..oh say...after two shots maybe? Then I'm doing 34 on auto hits, seriously? 

Edit: This is 34 on auto hit at lvl 19 fyi. 

Wow your rogue does no damage??? mine hits 350s without special attacked soloed all of awakening with a archer rogue on nightmare mode heres what you need
(A must for all archers)
Aim, Dont use rapid shot it does less damage if you got everything here you'll be dealing death easy
Weak points
Accuracy
(Optional)
Song of courage
Use rally with justice
(Armor)
Rainswept
Ferrets gloves
Wolf treds
(Weapon)
Misery-Dwarf sells it at the tavern in amaranthine its a must for my archer love that bow.

Try and do all this And you'll have a rogue archer that puts legolas from lord of the rings to shame.

Modifié par OrlesianWardenCommander, 12 avril 2010 - 06:52 .

[Marionetten]

Malfurus? More like MalFURIOUS!

That said, I agree. They need to fix this damn mess of a game already. It's been too long and nothing that needs to be done is being done. They still haven't fixed those damn missing Lothering boots.

[LordFess]

Just wanted to let you all know that there is a fan made patch that fixes the stealing issue and the pooch problem.
Oh yeah PC only.

Modifié par LordFess, 13 avril 2010 - 12:13 .