My math is usually pretty good, but this just baffles me all to hell. Is there something that I'm missing somewhere?
Power Armor-100% of MAXIMUM shields boost?????
Débuté par
EAT1
, avril 10 2010 12:50
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Ce sujet est fermé
#1
Posté 10 avril 2010 - 12:50
EAT1
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Ok, so hear it is: Power armor, geth shield boost, fortification, and barrier all have the possibility of doubling your shields. Well, I want to know why I can have 419 shields (after all Dmg Red. upgrades and armor pieces that give extra shields) and when I activate my Power Armor, I only have 657 shields. In the description, it says "Shield Strength: +100% of maximum shields", so why don't I have 838 shields?? I mean, it doesn't even add the 250 that I STARTED with, much less the 100% of the maximum I have attained. Is this some sort of bug?? Anyone else notice something like this?
My math is usually pretty good, but this just baffles me all to hell. Is there something that I'm missing somewhere?
My math is usually pretty good, but this just baffles me all to hell. Is there something that I'm missing somewhere?
Retour en haut
#3
Posté 10 avril 2010 - 01:10
ji4rock
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http://masseffect.wi...wiki/Tech_Armor
On the wiki the decription for tech armor does a flip flop - 1st and 2nd rank read n% of maximum shields, 3rd and 4th ranks read n% of base shields.
I've never used them so I am not sure.
I gues it calculates this way -
Tech armor +100% of 250 = 500
Damage protection upgrades +50% of 250 = 125
Total 625 plus any bonuses from the armor you are wearing.
Most calcs seem to be done from base score in the game. Damage calc for weapons have separate calls for damage upgrades and ammo powers.
On the wiki the decription for tech armor does a flip flop - 1st and 2nd rank read n% of maximum shields, 3rd and 4th ranks read n% of base shields.
I've never used them so I am not sure.
I gues it calculates this way -
Tech armor +100% of 250 = 500
Damage protection upgrades +50% of 250 = 125
Total 625 plus any bonuses from the armor you are wearing.
Most calcs seem to be done from base score in the game. Damage calc for weapons have separate calls for damage upgrades and ammo powers.
#4
Posté 10 avril 2010 - 01:25
EAT1
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Hmmm..... the wiki may have it right....but in-game it still says +100% of maximum shields.....
But no matter HOW I add it up, I should still have more than 657 shields....660 minimum (3 whole shield points, I know, negligible)
I guess my real question now is: How did I get this weird 657 number????
But no matter HOW I add it up, I should still have more than 657 shields....660 minimum (3 whole shield points, I know, negligible)
I guess my real question now is: How did I get this weird 657 number????
#5
Posté 10 avril 2010 - 01:38
ji4rock
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The couple of times I have looked at shield figures I have thought to myself - WTF?
My solution has been to stop playing anything above veteran and just ignoring most of the numbers stuff.
My solution has been to stop playing anything above veteran and just ignoring most of the numbers stuff.
#6
Posté 10 avril 2010 - 02:05
EAT1
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I know, right? My thing is, I broadcast over xfire for people ALL the time, and that only gets exciting when playing on hardcore or insanity, where the slightest amount of shield strength can save you from, say, an YMIR mech's rocket. (even if it hits your shields with 1 shield point left, the damage doesn't bleed over to your health, right?) I've also noticed that you get more shields when you hit an enemy with power drain (assuming u hit something with shields or a synthetic) than you do with heavy barrier, which is also pretty weird, right?
#7
Posté 10 avril 2010 - 09:28
Xanfaus
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Not directly related to your question, but as for the sentinel's tech armor, assault armor is better than power armor on hardcore and insanity. Even if you ended up with 800+ shield, you still will only get like an extra second before your shield goes down, and with assault armor any enemy except gunships and geth collossi get knocked down and with reduced cooldown, the armor can be reapplied by the time they get up.
#8
Posté 08 juin 2010 - 05:12
fimiki
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Sad to hear about the power armor EAT. I'm working on my 3rd play through me2 as a sentinel, and am attempting to make him as tanky as possible. There seems to be little in the way of hard numbers regarding the various defense powers and their evolved forms. Here are some tidbits I've gathered so far:
- Everyone has a base shield of 250. Grunt has 300 armor.
- Each damage protection upgrade adds 25 to your shields.
- +% to shields from armor only apply to the base shield of 250, so the +10% from Cerberus Assault armor will only add 25 to your shields no matter how many damage protection upgrades or defensive powers you have.
- The defense powers (Barrier, Fortification, GSB, Tech Armor, and Charge) only apply their +% to shields boost to the BASE shield of 250.
- The evolved versions of the defense powers behave rather strangely. Heavy Barrier and GSB give way more than they should, and Improved Fortification gives more shields than Heavy Fortification. I'm still looking into Tech Armor and Charge.
- Jacob is the only squadmate who's defense skill progresses normally. I haven't figured out the others quite yet.
In your case EAT, it sounds like you have access to the Sentry Interface helmet which allowed you to get a total of +18% shields from armor. 250*1.18+125 = 420, which is pretty close to your stated base value (must be some rounding going on in the background, hence the loss of 1 shield point). There's a possiblity that the +5% from Sentry Interface is bugged, since when you activate tech armor (giving you another 250 shields) your bonus shields from armor goes down to +13% (250*1.13+125+250 = 657). That's all just guesswork though. Who knows what is actually going on? We're not even sure if what is displayed on the character screen accurately represents the values the game uses.
I'll prepare a table to summarize this research when I'm finished.
- Everyone has a base shield of 250. Grunt has 300 armor.
- Each damage protection upgrade adds 25 to your shields.
- +% to shields from armor only apply to the base shield of 250, so the +10% from Cerberus Assault armor will only add 25 to your shields no matter how many damage protection upgrades or defensive powers you have.
- The defense powers (Barrier, Fortification, GSB, Tech Armor, and Charge) only apply their +% to shields boost to the BASE shield of 250.
- The evolved versions of the defense powers behave rather strangely. Heavy Barrier and GSB give way more than they should, and Improved Fortification gives more shields than Heavy Fortification. I'm still looking into Tech Armor and Charge.
- Jacob is the only squadmate who's defense skill progresses normally. I haven't figured out the others quite yet.
In your case EAT, it sounds like you have access to the Sentry Interface helmet which allowed you to get a total of +18% shields from armor. 250*1.18+125 = 420, which is pretty close to your stated base value (must be some rounding going on in the background, hence the loss of 1 shield point). There's a possiblity that the +5% from Sentry Interface is bugged, since when you activate tech armor (giving you another 250 shields) your bonus shields from armor goes down to +13% (250*1.13+125+250 = 657). That's all just guesswork though. Who knows what is actually going on? We're not even sure if what is displayed on the character screen accurately represents the values the game uses.
I'll prepare a table to summarize this research when I'm finished.
Modifié par fimiki, 08 juin 2010 - 05:36 .
#9
Posté 08 juin 2010 - 06:30
RGFrog
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Because all % boosts are added together first then applied to whatever your base ammount is.
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/128/index/1143264#1673528
So, if your base shield is as fimiki states, is 250.
With all shield upgrades you get 50% more. If you're using all possible armor shield upgrades, that's another 18%. Then on top of that your tech armor's 100%. Then if you add the 100% geth sheild boost (for 60 seconds).
So, the math is (per BW):
50+18+100+100 = 268% that is then applied to your base of 250
250*2.68 = 670; 670 + 250 = 920
I just confirmed this at Legions loyalty after activating both tech armor and GSB (100% version). Couldn't wear the 5% visor, so my final total was 908 shields. (250 * 5% = 12.5, rounded down is the difference between 920 and 908)
However, what I think should also be happening is that the player should also get the geth sheild strength bonus of 50% at level 2 if you're using the GSB since it specifically says that it applies to squad members with geth shield tech, which you have with the GSB... but, BW obviously doesn't want me having another 125 shield points (putting in over 1k shields)... I'm not bitter or greedy (yes I am, i want it all!!!)
Once GSB drops you'll lose 250 shield points. Once tech armor gets killed you'll lose another 250 shield points. Making total without those two boosts 420. The armor boosts and the power boosts don't show until after your in a mission and have them activated. The only one that shows in the squad menu when your on normandy is the 50% upgrades which puts you at 375.
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/128/index/1143264#1673528
So, if your base shield is as fimiki states, is 250.
With all shield upgrades you get 50% more. If you're using all possible armor shield upgrades, that's another 18%. Then on top of that your tech armor's 100%. Then if you add the 100% geth sheild boost (for 60 seconds).
So, the math is (per BW):
50+18+100+100 = 268% that is then applied to your base of 250
250*2.68 = 670; 670 + 250 = 920
I just confirmed this at Legions loyalty after activating both tech armor and GSB (100% version). Couldn't wear the 5% visor, so my final total was 908 shields. (250 * 5% = 12.5, rounded down is the difference between 920 and 908)
However, what I think should also be happening is that the player should also get the geth sheild strength bonus of 50% at level 2 if you're using the GSB since it specifically says that it applies to squad members with geth shield tech, which you have with the GSB... but, BW obviously doesn't want me having another 125 shield points (putting in over 1k shields)... I'm not bitter or greedy (yes I am, i want it all!!!)
Once GSB drops you'll lose 250 shield points. Once tech armor gets killed you'll lose another 250 shield points. Making total without those two boosts 420. The armor boosts and the power boosts don't show until after your in a mission and have them activated. The only one that shows in the squad menu when your on normandy is the 50% upgrades which puts you at 375.
Modifié par RGFrog, 08 juin 2010 - 06:37 .
#11
Posté 08 juin 2010 - 07:52
fimiki
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Thank you RGFrog. Your dual defense power sentinel is exactly what I'm aiming to build.
It's good to see that you were able to confirm the calculations in game. There must be something up with my version of me2 though. On my infiltrator I tested all 3 versions of the defensive powers and discovered that Heavy Barrier and Heavy Geth Shield Boost are +175% of base shields instead of +100%, and that Improved (not Heavy) Fortification is +150% of base shields. My sentinel isn't high enough in level yet to test those powers in conjunction with tech armor. It sounds like they don't reach those inflated values when used together.
You don't happen to have another class to test those powers on do you?
Another dual-shield related question: when I have 2 shield powers active and am taking damage to my shields, do they both hold until all shields are depleted, or does one go down first, then the other? It would be nice to have a monster shield that can take a beating and refresh it instantly with a shield power without breaking the action. It'd be fun to have a repeat of my mass effect 1 vanguard where I could just just stand in the middle of the room lifting and throwing and shooting things in glorious gun-fu fashion. Ah well. I guess that's what casual setting is for.
It's good to see that you were able to confirm the calculations in game. There must be something up with my version of me2 though. On my infiltrator I tested all 3 versions of the defensive powers and discovered that Heavy Barrier and Heavy Geth Shield Boost are +175% of base shields instead of +100%, and that Improved (not Heavy) Fortification is +150% of base shields. My sentinel isn't high enough in level yet to test those powers in conjunction with tech armor. It sounds like they don't reach those inflated values when used together.
You don't happen to have another class to test those powers on do you?
Another dual-shield related question: when I have 2 shield powers active and am taking damage to my shields, do they both hold until all shields are depleted, or does one go down first, then the other? It would be nice to have a monster shield that can take a beating and refresh it instantly with a shield power without breaking the action. It'd be fun to have a repeat of my mass effect 1 vanguard where I could just just stand in the middle of the room lifting and throwing and shooting things in glorious gun-fu fashion. Ah well. I guess that's what casual setting is for.
Modifié par fimiki, 08 juin 2010 - 08:17 .
#12
Posté 09 juin 2010 - 03:14
RGFrog
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Sure, have an infiltrator that I just finished the collector mission on. Had 20% sheild upgrades and another 10% in armor upgrades.
As expected, once in the collector ship I was at 325 shields. 250+30%.
Equiped the heave GSB and it added another 100% bringing the total to 575 shields. 250 + 325.
Exact same numbers with 100% Barrier and 100% Fortification.
None of the shield boosts (gsb, barrier, fortification) do more than 100% at lvl 4, so none of them will net you more than an extra 250 points to sheilds. If you're seeing more than that, it has to be the additional shield upgrades and armor pieces. Even then, though, you're only going to see a max of 68% total there (50% from upgrades, max 18% from armor pieces).
There may be something in engineer or vanguard, i haven't played those yet, but the only other upgrade is tech armor on sentinel with a max of an additional 100% as I stated above.
Sorry, no idea about what takes damage first. Since the bonus powers are timed, I'd guess that they'd be the first to go. But that's pure speculation on my part.
As expected, once in the collector ship I was at 325 shields. 250+30%.
Equiped the heave GSB and it added another 100% bringing the total to 575 shields. 250 + 325.
Exact same numbers with 100% Barrier and 100% Fortification.
None of the shield boosts (gsb, barrier, fortification) do more than 100% at lvl 4, so none of them will net you more than an extra 250 points to sheilds. If you're seeing more than that, it has to be the additional shield upgrades and armor pieces. Even then, though, you're only going to see a max of 68% total there (50% from upgrades, max 18% from armor pieces).
There may be something in engineer or vanguard, i haven't played those yet, but the only other upgrade is tech armor on sentinel with a max of an additional 100% as I stated above.
Sorry, no idea about what takes damage first. Since the bonus powers are timed, I'd guess that they'd be the first to go. But that's pure speculation on my part.
