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[sylvanaerie]

Axekix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Axekix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Also it makes me wish I could sacrifice Eamon instead of Isolde to save Connor.  I am starting to hate him THAT much

Now that  is something I never thought you would say... might I ask why?

Because it was Eamon (and to a lesser extent Isolde) who made Alistair the sadpanda unconfident boy the PC meets.  Its the PC who (may choose) to help him grow up and finally be a leader and stand up for what he wants, not just what everyone expects of him.
Sleeping wth the damn dogs indeed.  I'd love to just...GRRR don't get me started on Eamon...he's turning up in my fic soon and i just wanna kill him but NOT in my fic...

Hmm, I have a slightly different take on Eamon's relationship with Alistair but I don't really have time to go into it now.  Out of curiosity, do you believe Eamon loved Alistair?

Edit: tops

No, I don't.  I think he cares for the boy but no one so completely trashes the confidence of another person they love like that.  I wouldn't treat an animal the way Alistair got treated. 
Teagan was overjoyed to see Alistair lived.  Eamon's first thought is "We have to do the unthinkable and make Alistair king". 
When Alistair is executed at the Landsmeet (If that is the outcome) Eamon just stands there and says nothing and it was his fault Alistair was there in the first place. I don't even think he says nothing afterward either, just a kind of "I hope you know what your doing, Warden" thing.
I just wanna shove his face through the wall whenever I look at it.

[Axekix]

sylvanaerie wrote...

No, I don't.  I think he cares for the boy but no one so completely trashes the confidence of another person they love like that.  I wouldn't treat an animal the way Alistair got treated. 
Teagan was overjoyed to see Alistair lived.  Eamon's first thought is "We have to do the unthinkable and make Alistair king". 
When Alistair is executed at the Landsmeet (If that is the outcome) Eamon just stands there and says nothing and it was his fault Alistair was there in the first place. I don't even think he says nothing afterward either, just a kind of "I hope you know what your doing, Warden" thing.
I just wanna shove his face through the wall whenever I look at it.

Interesting.  I've never gotten Alistair executed so I didn't know that.  I wonder if there is missing dialogue there... it seems odd for him to say absolutely nothing, even if he didn't genuinely care about him.

If it was intentional, then I wonder what his purpose was in holding on to Alistair's mother's locket, and all the visits he made to the Chantry to see Alistair.  Clearly put Isolde before Alistair, but I always felt he had a very fatherlike bond with him.

Modifié par Axekix, 26 mai 2010 - 11:50 .

[sylvanaerie]

Axekix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

No, I don't.  I think he cares for the boy but no one so completely trashes the confidence of another person they love like that.  I wouldn't treat an animal the way Alistair got treated. 
Teagan was overjoyed to see Alistair lived.  Eamon's first thought is "We have to do the unthinkable and make Alistair king". 
When Alistair is executed at the Landsmeet (If that is the outcome) Eamon just stands there and says nothing and it was his fault Alistair was there in the first place. I don't even think he says nothing afterward either, just a kind of "I hope you know what your doing, Warden" thing.
I just wanna shove his face through the wall whenever I look at it.

Interesting.  I've never gotten Alistair executed so I didn't know that.  I wonder if there is missing dialogue there... it seems odd for him to say absolutely nothing, even if he didn't genuinely care about him.

If it was intentional, then I wonder what his purpose was in holding on to Alistair's mother's locket, and all the visits he made to the Chantry to see Alistair.  Clearly put Isolde before Alistair, but I always felt he had a very fatherlike bond with him.

when they were in Denerim Alistair slept in the kennels with the dogs.

[Axekix]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Axekix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

No, I don't.  I think he cares for the boy but no one so completely trashes the confidence of another person they love like that.  I wouldn't treat an animal the way Alistair got treated. 
Teagan was overjoyed to see Alistair lived.  Eamon's first thought is "We have to do the unthinkable and make Alistair king". 
When Alistair is executed at the Landsmeet (If that is the outcome) Eamon just stands there and says nothing and it was his fault Alistair was there in the first place. I don't even think he says nothing afterward either, just a kind of "I hope you know what your doing, Warden" thing.
I just wanna shove his face through the wall whenever I look at it.

Interesting.  I've never gotten Alistair executed so I didn't know that.  I wonder if there is missing dialogue there... it seems odd for him to say absolutely nothing, even if he didn't genuinely care about him.

If it was intentional, then I wonder what his purpose was in holding on to Alistair's mother's locket, and all the visits he made to the Chantry to see Alistair.  Clearly put Isolde before Alistair, but I always felt he had a very fatherlike bond with him.

when they were in Denerim Alistair slept in the kennels with the dogs.

Yes.  Most likely to avoid arousing suspicion about his blood.  He wasn't Eamon's son... how would he explain taking in an orphan and raising him as a noble?  I believe there's dialogue with Alistair suggesting this.

[nos_astra]

Axekix wrote...
Yes.  Most likely to avoid arousing suspicion about his blood.  He wasn't Eamon's son... how would he explain taking in an orphan and raising him as a noble?  I believe there's dialogue with Alistair suggesting this.

That's my impression too. And I don't think Alistair suffered terribly. He was raised a commoner, possibly having a place among the servants but with some liberties and a bit of attention from the Arl himself.

[sylvanaerie]

He fit in nowhere. It would have been kinder if Eamon had never told him and just treated him as a servant. The noble children called him a bastard and the commoners thought he put on airs.

I will have to remember Alistair loves him and that will save him from being Queen o' Hearts'd in my fic...Though I believe Alistair suffers a little from Stockholm syndrome. 

Personally I believe Eamon's feelings may stem from a bit of anger at Maric if Rowan was alive during that dalliance esp since it was said in game he was kept secret to keep from shaming her.  He even has a bad image of his conception as being the unfortuneate result of a dalliance between the king and "a star struck maid"

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 26 mai 2010 - 12:25 .

[sabreene]

It makes me think of Assassin's Apprentice by Robin Hobb



For that time period, sleeping in the stables/kennels wasn't really so bad, nor was being sent to the church. It does suck to not fit in anywhere, but being a bastard in those times was going to be bad pretty much no matter what.



If he was going to be treated like a servant, they would've had to lie to him and found some servants willing to take him in and pretend he was their son. Otherwise, he'd still be treated like a bastard, and worse -- a bastard who had no one higher up looking out for him (at least in some small way). I do think Eamon put his own family and what he thinks is right above Alistair's needs, but I don't see him as a bad man.

[SurelyForth]

klarabella wrote...

Axekix wrote...
Yes.  Most likely to avoid arousing suspicion about his blood.  He wasn't Eamon's son... how would he explain taking in an orphan and raising him as a noble?  I believe there's dialogue with Alistair suggesting this.

That's my impression too. And I don't think Alistair suffered terribly. He was raised a commoner, possibly having a place among the servants but with some liberties and a bit of attention from the Arl himself.

This is where I think Maric failed Alistair almost more than Eamon did, because Maric should have had some inkling of the situation (the entire situation, up to and including the Chantry bit) and never did anything to intercede. Fiona wanted him raised like a normal kid and I think Alistair would have been much better served to have been raised by an actual commoner, where he might be able to have that normal life if not one related to court at all. Like I've said before, my impression of Alistair's childhood is that he was too potentially important for Eamon to relinquish but not immediately important enough to inconvenience himself in the guardian department.

I guess I just think they should have either gone all out one way or another rather than half-assed it.

[sylvanaerie]

SurelyForth wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Axekix wrote...
Yes.  Most likely to avoid arousing suspicion about his blood.  He wasn't Eamon's son... how would he explain taking in an orphan and raising him as a noble?  I believe there's dialogue with Alistair suggesting this.

That's my impression too. And I don't think Alistair suffered terribly. He was raised a commoner, possibly having a place among the servants but with some liberties and a bit of attention from the Arl himself.

This is where I think Maric failed Alistair almost more than Eamon did, because Maric should have had some inkling of the situation (the entire situation, up to and including the Chantry bit) and never did anything to intercede. Fiona wanted him raised like a normal kid and I think Alistair would have been much better served to have been raised by an actual commoner, where he might be able to have that normal life if not one related to court at all. Like I've said before, my impression of Alistair's childhood is that he was too potentially important for Eamon to relinquish but not immediately important enough to inconvenience himself in the guardian department.

I guess I just think they should have either gone all out one way or another rather than half-assed it.

That's my impression too.  And I think he would have been happier if Eamon had paid a NICE commoner family to raise him.  It would have taken no effort on his part to ensure one of the nice families in Redcliffe would look after him.  I think in some small part this was Eamon's dig at Maric.

Alistair's greatest desire is to have a real home, a real family at last.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 26 mai 2010 - 12:30 .

[Nu-Nu]

I see no one is actually angry at the person who's real fault this is and that's Maric, Alistair's own father. Yeah it was for the good of the country but surely he would have been able to secretly provide provisions for Alistair and made sure he had a decent enough life in secret. But he left it all to Eamon to decide his fate.



What Eamon did as hard as it might seem to some is better then just abandoning him completely like his father did. It's obvious that Eamon ended up caring deeply for Alistair or he would never have taken him in the first place and risked his reputation. Alistair was very happy when he was with Eamon so he must have done some good.

[SurelyForth]

Nu-Nu wrote...

I see no one is actually angry at the person who's real fault this is and that's Maric, Alistair's own father. Yeah it was for the good of the country but surely he would have been able to secretly provide provisions for Alistair and made sure he had a decent enough life in secret. But he left it all to Eamon to decide his fate.

What Eamon did as hard as it might seem to some is better then just abandoning him completely like his father did. It's obvious that Eamon ended up caring deeply for Alistair or he would never have taken him in the first place and risked his reputation. Alistair was very happy when he was with Eamon so he must have done some good.

I implicated Maric!

[sylvanaerie]

oh Maric isn't blameless in this situation either. He died/disappeared only 5 years ago and could have done something. He WANTED to bring Alistair to court and acknowlege him but someone stopped him (Its been a while since I had that conversation with Loghain) so I don't recall who it was.

[Nu-Nu]

SurelyForth wrote...

Nu-Nu wrote...

I see no one is actually angry at the person who's real fault this is and that's Maric, Alistair's own father. Yeah it was for the good of the country but surely he would have been able to secretly provide provisions for Alistair and made sure he had a decent enough life in secret. But he left it all to Eamon to decide his fate.

What Eamon did as hard as it might seem to some is better then just abandoning him completely like his father did. It's obvious that Eamon ended up caring deeply for Alistair or he would never have taken him in the first place and risked his reputation. Alistair was very happy when he was with Eamon so he must have done some good.

I implicated Maric!

Ahh sorry, I missed that.  I just find it funny people want to kill Eamon but not Maric   I guess really powerful men just have a handwave effect over some females.

[Herr Uhl]

Nu-Nu wrote...

Ahh sorry, I missed that.  I just find it funny people want to kill Eamon but not Maric   I guess really powerful men just have a handwave effect over some females.

Maric being dead complicates the process of killing him.

And no elf can resist the hawtness of Maric, but since you are humans you may have a chance.

[Nu-Nu]

sylvanaerie wrote...

oh Maric isn't blameless in this situation either. He died/disappeared only 5 years ago and could have done something. He WANTED to bring Alistair to court and acknowlege him but someone stopped him (Its been a while since I had that conversation with Loghain) so I don't recall who it was.

I think it was Loghain himself.  He didn't want Orslaise (sp?) to think of Ferelden's Queen as some kind of pathetic weak woman who couldn't please the King and that would bring Ferelden reputation down. 

I like how it's the woman's fault.....and wasn't she the one Loghain had a crush on and fallen in love with?  The true reason why he didn't want acknowledgement, for her sake?

[sylvanaerie]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Nu-Nu wrote...

Ahh sorry, I missed that.  I just find it funny people want to kill Eamon but not Maric   I guess really powerful men just have a handwave effect over some females.

Maric being dead complicates the process of killing him.

And no elf can resist the hawtness of Maric, but since you are humans you may have a chance.

LOL there is that too

[Herr Uhl]

Nu-Nu wrote...

I think it was Loghain himself.  He didn't want Orslaise (sp?) to think of Ferelden's Queen as some kind of pathetic weak woman who couldn't please the King and that would bring Ferelden reputation down. 

I like how it's the woman's fault.....and wasn't she the one Loghain had a crush on and fallen in love with?  The true reason why he didn't want acknowledgement, for her sake?

It was more so that she wouldn't seem like a royal concubine instead of queen, but that is the gist of it.

[Nu-Nu]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Nu-Nu wrote...

Ahh sorry, I missed that.  I just find it funny people want to kill Eamon but not Maric   I guess really powerful men just have a handwave effect over some females.

Maric being dead complicates the process of killing him.

And no elf can resist the hawtness of Maric, but since you are humans you may have a chance.

True but you can still at least be happy that he's dead

[soignee]

sylvanaerie wrote...

oh Maric isn't blameless in this situation either. He died/disappeared only 5 years ago and could have done something. He WANTED to bring Alistair to court and acknowlege him but someone stopped him (Its been a while since I had that conversation with Loghain) so I don't recall who it was.

But look at how much fo a distant father Maric was to Cailan (if you've read the books.) Rowan's death made him shag elves in self-pity, or something. And go on suicide missions with Grey Wardens. He was a distant father to both.

[tmp7704]

sylvanaerie wrote...

That's my impression too.  And I think he would have been happier if Eamon had paid a NICE commoner family to raise him.

Don't you people remember your fairy tales? That never works out

[Herr Uhl]

soignee wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

oh Maric isn't blameless in this situation either. He died/disappeared only 5 years ago and could have done something. He WANTED to bring Alistair to court and acknowlege him but someone stopped him (Its been a while since I had that conversation with Loghain) so I don't recall who it was.

But look at how much fo a distant father Maric was to Cailan (if you've read the books.) Rowan's death made him shag elves in self-pity, or something. And go on suicide missions with Grey Wardens. He was a distant father to both.

But he was unhappy. His happiness is far more important than giving his sons any attention.

[soignee]

Herr Uhl wrote...

soignee wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

oh Maric isn't blameless in this situation either. He died/disappeared only 5 years ago and could have done something. He WANTED to bring Alistair to court and acknowlege him but someone stopped him (Its been a while since I had that conversation with Loghain) so I don't recall who it was.

But look at how much fo a distant father Maric was to Cailan (if you've read the books.) Rowan's death made him shag elves in self-pity, or something. And go on suicide missions with Grey Wardens. He was a distant father to both.

But he was unhappy. His happiness is far more important than giving his sons any attention.

yesssss. I'm sure.

[ejoslin]

*poke my head in for some completely off topic spam*



I released a version of my party banter fix that doesn't have the Ferelden dogs banter. However, it does fix people teasing Alistair about having sex if he hasn't had sex and Zevran giving Alistair sexual advice if Alistair and the warden broke up. And a few other things.



Ok, back to burying my nose in the toolset.

[Bratt1204]

Axekix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Axekix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

No, I don't.  I think he cares for the boy but no one so completely trashes the confidence of another person they love like that.  I wouldn't treat an animal the way Alistair got treated. 
Teagan was overjoyed to see Alistair lived.  Eamon's first thought is "We have to do the unthinkable and make Alistair king". 
When Alistair is executed at the Landsmeet (If that is the outcome) Eamon just stands there and says nothing and it was his fault Alistair was there in the first place. I don't even think he says nothing afterward either, just a kind of "I hope you know what your doing, Warden" thing.
I just wanna shove his face through the wall whenever I look at it.

Interesting.  I've never gotten Alistair executed so I didn't know that.  I wonder if there is missing dialogue there... it seems odd for him to say absolutely nothing, even if he didn't genuinely care about him.

If it was intentional, then I wonder what his purpose was in holding on to Alistair's mother's locket, and all the visits he made to the Chantry to see Alistair.  Clearly put Isolde before Alistair, but I always felt he had a very fatherlike bond with him.

when they were in Denerim Alistair slept in the kennels with the dogs.

Yes.  Most likely to avoid arousing suspicion about his blood.  He wasn't Eamon's son... how would he explain taking in an orphan and raising him as a noble?  I believe there's dialogue with Alistair suggesting this.

Yes, I also agree with this perspective. I do believe Eamon loves Alistair but needed to keep his lineage concealed as best he could while was a child. He bought toys for Alistair when in Denerim and such, I'm certain he was fond of him. Now, it was Isolde that treated him like crap and that is another reason I want to lop her her head off. 

[SurelyForth]

ejoslin wrote...

*poke my head in for some completely off topic spam*

I released a version of my party banter fix that doesn't have the Ferelden dogs banter. However, it does fix people teasing Alistair about having sex if he hasn't had sex and Zevran giving Alistair sexual advice if Alistair and the warden broke up. And a few other things.

Ok, back to burying my nose in the toolset.

 You rock!

Yikes! Top of a page ending in 00.

The theme of this post is "People who make the game even more awesome", so here's a repeated screen from Charsen's gate kisses:

Modifié par SurelyForth, 26 mai 2010 - 02:11 .