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[Addai]

Herr Uhl wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...
Even if he were a loving father, Maric would have to realize that the security of the throne came before any fatherly instincts he might have.

Then he shouldn't have gotten himself in this mess in the first place.
But he clearly doesn't give a **** about anything.

He still cares about getting laid.

Fiona practically rapes the poor guy at first.    I mean, fault him if you like, but if you ever end up middle-aged and alone and meet someone who genuinely cares about you, then talk about not giving a **** about anything for simply wanting to be with that person for a little while.

[cmessaz]

Oh I feel so sorry for poor Cailen. Being married to Anora would make anyone lose their damn mind.

[AnniLau]

I just got 'lady penis' rickrolled.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
 I mean, fault him if you like, but if you ever end up middle-aged and alone and meet someone who genuinely cares about you, then talk about not giving a **** about anything for simply wanting to be with that person for a little while.

He is a king with great responsabilities. He doesn't have the luxury to do that. Nor does he have the luxury to ignore them, even for a little while. It was clear that he and Katriel had no future, because she was an elf, and yet he goes into the same mess again.   

If he is so lonely, let him marry a human woman and be done with it. Instead of playing teenager.  

[cmessaz]

Wasn't he married?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Wasn't Rowan dead? Or did he actually cheat on her while she was alive?

[SurelyForth]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Wasn't Rowan dead? Or did he actually cheat on her while she was alive?

Rowan was dead when he slept with Fiona.

I think his problem was that he actually cared for Rowan so much, and was still a bit hung up on Katriel, that he wouldn't be able to just suck up another marriage for anything other than love. I'm sure what happened with Fiona, which she did instigate, probably did nothing to help him on that front.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 26 mai 2010 - 03:05 .

[Lord Gremlin]

Serissia wrote...

I've played through as various different characters and I can honestly say this is my absolute favorite ending. The love between Alistair and HNF is so cute. I say consequences be damned, it's worth it!

But you have to do dark ritual with Morrigan to get this ending, no? Where both your PC and Alistair are alive?

[Serissia]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Wasn't Rowan dead? Or did he actually cheat on her while she was alive?

She was dead.  That's the whole reason he went into the Deep Roads w/ the Wardens.  He even admits that to Fiona.  Maric wanted to die.

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
 I mean, fault him if you like, but if you ever end up middle-aged and alone and meet someone who genuinely cares about you, then talk about not giving a **** about anything for simply wanting to be with that person for a little while.

He is a king with great responsabilities. He doesn't have the luxury to do that. Nor does he have the luxury to ignore them, even for a little while. It was clear that he and Katriel had no future, because she was an elf, and yet he goes into the same mess again.   

If he is so lonely, let him marry a human woman and be done with it. Instead of playing teenager.  

What responsibilities did he ignore?  Nobles are fathering bastards all over the kingdom.  I understand you think he should have been some kind of little-p paragon, but give me a break.  I suppose it's the same instinct that faults Alistair for having some humanity.

[Herr Uhl]

Serissia wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Wasn't Rowan dead? Or did he actually cheat on her while she was alive?

She was dead.  That's the whole reason he went into the Deep Roads w/ the Wardens.  He even admits that to Fiona.  Maric wanted to die.

Which is my biggest gripe with him.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Serissia wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Wasn't Rowan dead? Or did he actually cheat on her while she was alive?

She was dead.  That's the whole reason he went into the Deep Roads w/ the Wardens.  He even admits that to Fiona.  Maric wanted to die.

With absolutely no considerations to his succession (He barely cared for Cailan, who was not old enough to replace him), no consideration to his country, no consideration to his mother's legacy....etc
 
I really dislike this kind of people.

[Addai]

Serissia wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Wasn't Rowan dead? Or did he actually cheat on her while she was alive?

She was dead.  That's the whole reason he went into the Deep Roads w/ the Wardens.  He even admits that to Fiona.  Maric wanted to die.

I've heard people say this, but I don't see this in The Calling at all and I've gone back to re-read the portions with Fiona looking for it.  He's there because he sees the Blight as the ultimate threat to his kingdom, especially if the darkspawn gain knowledge of the whereabouts of the remaining Old Gods.  His malaise is something separate.  He does talk about his sense of despair to Fiona, but I don't see anywhere in TC where Maric is suicidal.  To the contrary, in fact.  If anyone gets suicidal, it's Duncan, Julien and Genevieve.

Modifié par Addai67, 26 mai 2010 - 03:08 .

[MelRedux]

AnniLau wrote...

I just got 'lady penis' rickrolled.

What do you mean??  *looks innocent*

[Serissia]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
If he is so lonely, let him marry a human woman and be done with it. Instead of playing teenager.

Loghain did that and it didn't work out so well for him... regardless of what he says before doing the DR.  Loghain left Gwaren and came to court because he wanted to escape the woman he married and the child she had bore.  He was still in love w/ Rowan. 

[Addai]

cmessaz wrote...

Oh I feel so sorry for poor Cailen. Being married to Anora would make anyone lose their damn mind.

QFT

Maric and Rowan seems to have worked out well as political marriages go, but even their relationship illustrates the disadvantages of a political marriage.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
What responsibilities did he ignore?  Nobles are fathering bastards all over the kingdom.  I understand you think he should have been some kind of little-p paragon, but give me a break.  I suppose it's the same instinct that faults Alistair for having some humanity.

Venturing into the deep roads for one.
And he is king, not just some nobleman. His duty is to ensure the stability of the Monarchy. Fathering a bastard with an elf in such an indecent manner that might threaten his son's succession is failing at being responsable. And failing at being loyal to Rowan's memory. 
 

[Serissia]

Addai67 wrote...
I've heard people say this, but I don't see this in The Calling at all and I've gone back to re-read the portions with Fiona looking for it.  He's there because he sees the Blight as the ultimate threat to his kingdom, especially if the darkspawn gain knowledge of the whereabouts of the remaining Old Gods.  His malaise is something separate.  He does talk about his sense of despair to Fiona, but I don't see anywhere in TC where Maric is suicidal.  To the contrary, in fact.  If anyone gets suicidal, it's Duncan, Julien and Genevieve.

I'm not sure how you missed it but it's there.  He tells her that originally he went w/ the Wardens because he wanted to die.  He does care about the Blight and about what Flemeth said to him but he was also over come w/ grief for Rowan.  He didn't want to live w/o her. 

As TC progresses Maric sees how dire the situation under ground really is.  It sparks something in him and he gets w/ the program.  Then the companionship he finds in Fiona is enough for him to go on afterwards.  Hence the huge change in his demenor between the very start and the very end in regards to his status as King.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Serissia wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
If he is so lonely, let him marry a human woman and be done with it. Instead of playing teenager.

Loghain did that and it didn't work out so well for him... regardless of what he says before doing the DR.  Loghain left Gwaren and came to court because he wanted to escape the woman he married and the child she had bore.  He was still in love w/ Rowan. 

But he did not commit indecent acts and was loyal to his new wife. Yea sure he wasn't completely happy, but he understood his responsabilities. Loghain was not acting childish like Maric. Both didn't get what they love, and yet Maric wants to die with nothing but selfish thoughts in his head.

[Nu-Nu]

Addai67 wrote...



From what we can tell, he never had a father or father figure himself.

I know he was a good man but he's definatly not cut out for fatherhood. I guess he just didn't pick up the skills he needed from his own father but some people do find a way so can he really use that as an excuse?

[Serissia]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
But he did not commit indecent acts and was loyal to his new wife. Yea sure he wasn't completely happy, but he understood his responsabilities. Loghain was not acting childish like Maric. Both didn't get what they love, and yet Maric wants to die with nothing but selfish thoughts in his head.

Perhaps, but I'm inclined to think that everything that happened changed Loghain and not for the better.  Even at the begining of TC Maric had noticed dramatic changes in his friend.  People all handle grief/pain in different ways.  Loghain burried his and Maric couldn't go on at first.  Maric even admits in TC that he's been a poor father to his own son and that Loghain would do a better job raising him.

[Addai]

Serissia wrote...

I'm not sure how you missed it but it's there.  He tells her that originally he went w/ the Wardens because he wanted to die.  He does care about the Blight and about what Flemeth said to him but he was also over come w/ grief for Rowan.  He didn't want to live w/o her. 

I've got TC with me at work so I'll take a look again over my lunch break.  Or, if someone can find me a quote, I'd appreciate it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Nu-Nu wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

From what we can tell, he never had a father or father figure himself.

I know he was a good man but he's definatly not cut out for fatherhood. I guess he just didn't pick up the skills he needed from his own father but some people do find a way so can he really use that as an excuse?

His mother assumed the role of both mother and father to Maric and he idolised her. No, it's not an excuse.

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

His mother assumed the role of both mother and father to Maric and he idolised her. No, it's not an excuse.

Yes, single parenthood always works out so well for boys in the real world, too.  No issues there!

The difference here is that you think I'm looking for an excuse, while you are only looking for reasons to lambaste, blame and dismiss.  I'm talking about the reality that people are complex and are... people.  Not robots.  They have mixed motivations and weaknesses, and strengths that can act as weaknesses under the right circumstances.  Even if they are in positions of power and responsibility.  Idolize Loghain and whomever else you like, but it's the same for them.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Serissia wrote...
I'm not sure how you missed it but it's there.  He tells her that originally he went w/ the Wardens because he wanted to die.  He does care about the Blight and about what Flemeth said to him but he was also over come w/ grief for Rowan.  He didn't want to live w/o her. 

And he best demonstrates his loyalty to Rowan's memory by sleeping illegitimately with another woman?