60083 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

cmessaz wrote...

My wishes are coming true, check this out!
http://www.dragonage...ile.php?id=1274

For the life of me I can't remember the name of this sword in Oblivion.

That must be sword equivalent of that "muscles have muscles" thing. Even the edges have edges

Would need a manual, a pull down menu or at least a big arrow saying "this end goes in" or it wouldn't end well

[cmessaz]

Oh tmp dusk/dawn fang is the sh*t! I need to try it, I loved this blade in Oblivion.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

His mother assumed the role of both mother and father to Maric and he idolised her. No, it's not an excuse.

Yes, single parenthood always works out so well for boys in the real world, too.  No issues there!

The difference here is that you think I'm looking for an excuse, while you are only looking for reasons to lambaste, blame and dismiss.  I'm talking about the reality that people are complex and are... people.  Not robots.  They have mixed motivations and weaknesses, and strengths that can act as weaknesses under the right circumstances.  Even if they are in positions of power and responsibility.  Idolize Loghain and whomever else you like, but it's the same for them.

Moira was not a conmon single parent. She was a strong leader, who taught Maric anythign he needed to know. Maric never demonstrated before an absence of a father figure, as he practically idolised Moira in everyway.
Furthermore, the idea that a man with a single parent necesserily has to be a bad father is just false. It's no excuse. Perhaps an explanation, but not an excuse in Maric's case.

Of course they are complex. Doesn't change the fact that they have logic and reason, and those who fail to use them should be criticised appropriately.
And I don't idolise Loghain and he is far from flawless. But when dealing with the exact same issue as Maric, he did not go on a childish whim to get himself killed with absolutely no regards to his responsabilities, his nation, his bloodline, his throne...etc  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 mai 2010 - 03:27 .

[MelRedux]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Serissia wrote...
I'm not sure how you missed it but it's there.  He tells her that originally he went w/ the Wardens because he wanted to die.  He does care about the Blight and about what Flemeth said to him but he was also over come w/ grief for Rowan.  He didn't want to live w/o her. 

And he best demonstrates his loyalty to Rowan's memory by sleeping illegitimately with another woman?

So he's not supposed to care about anyone else for the rest of his life, becuase she's dead??  There is no question he loved Rowan, but I see no reason why he should remain celebate for the rest of his life to honor her memory.  And I would not call his deeds "sleeping illegitimately with another woman".  He was not married at the time.

[Serissia]

Addai67 wrote...
I've got TC with me at work so I'll take a look again over my lunch break.  Or, if someone can find me a quote, I'd appreciate it.

I'm quoting this part because I think it's important.  I'll try to find the other in a bit.

"I know they call me Maric the Davior.  I don't know who started that.  Probably Rowan, come to think of it.  She always encouraged the adoration of the people, because she believed it was important."

"I don't know who that is."

"My wife, the Queen." He tried to keep his voice flat.  From Duncan's curious glance, he suspected he wasn't very successful.
"She died.  Two years ago, now."

"I'm sorry."  Duncan said earnestly.  "Did you love her?"

"I did.  I do."  Maric cleared hsi throat, studiously looking ahead.  

"There was another woman before, however.  An elven woman by the name of Katriel, the very one who led us to the Ortan thaig when I was in the Deep Roads.  She saved my life, but when I found out she was a spy and had cost us the battle at West Hill, I killed her.  I ran her through."

Maric could feel the lad's speculative look, and was suddenly glad for the dim light as he was sure his color was rising.  Why he was suddenly talking about this, he wasn't certain.  He had never talked about it to anyone before, not since it happened.  Perhaps he was being foolish. 

"I 'd heard about that."  Duncan said carefully.  "Some of it anyway."

"No doubt.  Loghain made sure word got out, so everyone knew that justice had been done."  he turned and looked at Duncan discrectly.  "My point is that it wasn't justice.  I was furious and felt betrayed.  I felt responsible for all the people who had died because I was the one who trusted her.  I couldn't forgive her.  I murdered her, and I never regretted anything more in my life."

"Oh."

"We all make mistakes, Duncan.  Some of them are going to cost others dearly.  What's important is that your intentions were good, and that you learn from what you've done."  He attempted a wan smile.  "I wish I'd known that a long time ago."

[KnightofPhoenix]

Mel_Redux wrote...
So he's not supposed to care about anyone else for the rest of his life, becuase she's dead??  There is no question he loved Rowan, but I see no reason why he should remain celebate for the rest of his life to honor her memory.  And I would not call his deeds "sleeping illegitimately with another woman".  He was not married at the time.

Then he should marry. Simple.
And sleeping with no marriage is illegitimate. Unless she was an official royal concubine (depends on the culture, I am not sure Ferelden has this conception), which she is not.    

[Serissia]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
And he best demonstrates his loyalty to Rowan's memory by sleeping illegitimately with another woman?

She was dead at this point.  I personally don't believe in mourning forever.  It had been 2 yrs already since her death.  He hardly cheated on Rowan. 

Many Kings throughout history have bedded many woman.  Why?  Because they can.  I don't think this was why Maric did it though.  He wasn't simply looking for a piece of ass.  He needed to human connection of being with another person. 

Sure, he probably should of married.  He probably should of tried to have more children incase something happened to his only son.  I don't think he could bring himself to do that though.

Modifié par Serissia, 26 mai 2010 - 03:33 .

[Nu-Nu]

Mel_Redux wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Serissia wrote...
I'm not sure how you missed it but it's there.  He tells her that originally he went w/ the Wardens because he wanted to die.  He does care about the Blight and about what Flemeth said to him but he was also over come w/ grief for Rowan.  He didn't want to live w/o her. 

And he best demonstrates his loyalty to Rowan's memory by sleeping illegitimately with another woman?

So he's not supposed to care about anyone else for the rest of his life, becuase she's dead??  There is no question he loved Rowan, but I see no reason why he should remain celebate for the rest of his life to honor her memory.  And I would not call his deeds "sleeping illegitimately with another woman".  He was not married at the time.

Wasn't he married to Cailen's mother, the queen  (he cared about her but never loved her) at the time he slept with Fiona? 

Mel_Redux wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Serissia wrote...
I'm not sure how you missed it but it's there.  He tells her that originally he went w/ the Wardens because he wanted to die.  He does care about the Blight and about what Flemeth said to him but he was also over come w/ grief for Rowan.  He didn't want to live w/o her. 

And he best demonstrates his loyalty to Rowan's memory by sleeping illegitimately with another woman?

So he's not supposed to care about anyone else for the rest of his life, becuase she's dead??  There is no question he loved Rowan, but I see no reason why he should remain celebate for the rest of his life to honor her memory.  And I would not call his deeds "sleeping illegitimately with another woman".  He was not married at the time.

Wasn't he married to Cailen's mother  (he cared about her but never loved her) at the time he slept with Fiona? 

Edit - Oh I just double check she was dead at this point.

Modifié par Nu-Nu, 26 mai 2010 - 03:37 .

[Herr Uhl]

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

His mother assumed the role of both mother and father to Maric and he idolised her. No, it's not an excuse.

Yes, single parenthood always works out so well for boys in the real world, too.  No issues there!

The difference here is that you think I'm looking for an excuse, while you are only looking for reasons to lambaste, blame and dismiss.  I'm talking about the reality that people are complex and are... people.  Not robots.  They have mixed motivations and weaknesses, and strengths that can act as weaknesses under the right circumstances.  Even if they are in positions of power and responsibility.  Idolize Loghain and whomever else you like, but it's the same for them.

The role of two parents is vastly overrated (at least as far as I'm concerned), and since I am a boy of a single parent I ought to know. Maybe I just had a Supermom, idk.

The problem with Maric as I see it is that he leaves his son without any parents after his mother died. He doesn't take responsibility there. He wanting someone new, that I have understanding for.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Serissia wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
And he best demonstrates his loyalty to Rowan's memory by sleeping illegitimately with another woman?

She was dead at this point.  I personally don't believe in mourning forever.  It had been 2 yrs already since her death.  He hardly cheated on Rowan. 

Neither do I. But when it is outside marriage, it is a dishonor to her memory. At least imo.

[soignee]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

His mother assumed the role of both mother and father to Maric and he idolised her. No, it's not an excuse.

Yes, single parenthood always works out so well for boys in the real world, too.  No issues there!

The difference here is that you think I'm looking for an excuse, while you are only looking for reasons to lambaste, blame and dismiss.  I'm talking about the reality that people are complex and are... people.  Not robots.  They have mixed motivations and weaknesses, and strengths that can act as weaknesses under the right circumstances.  Even if they are in positions of power and responsibility.  Idolize Loghain and whomever else you like, but it's the same for them.

The role of two parents is vastly overrated (at least as far as I'm concerned), and since I am a boy of a single parent I ought to know. Maybe I just had a Supermom, idk.

The problem with Maric as I see it is that he leaves his son without any parents after his mother died. He doesn't take responsibility there. He wanting someone new, that I have understanding for.

Exactly. Cailan is the way he is thanks to his parents, really. His mother stuffed his head full of stories (and his nanny too) and his father was this distant satalllite of a figure who he probably idolised because of the stories told to him. Any wonder he grew up being a ~~~*~GLORIOUS~~~ glory seeker?

[MelRedux]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Serissia wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
And he best demonstrates his loyalty to Rowan's memory by sleeping illegitimately with another woman?

She was dead at this point.  I personally don't believe in mourning forever.  It had been 2 yrs already since her death.  He hardly cheated on Rowan. 

Neither do I. But when it is outside marriage, it is a dishonor to her memory. At least imo.

That is a personal/cultural opinion that will vary.  It seems in the world of Dragon Age, that sex outside of marriage is not as taboo as it is in some of our cultures.  I think the bigger problem the people of Thedas would have is that Fiona was an elf, not that he was marring Rowan's honor.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Mel_Redux wrote...
That is a personal/cultural opinion that will vary.  It seems in the world of Dragon Age, that sex outside of marriage is not as taboo as it is in some of our cultures.  I think the bigger problem the people of Thedas would have is that Fiona was an elf, not that he was marring Rowan's honor.

Keep in mind that Rowan is also Queen and not just any woman.
The fact they had to keep the bastard a secret is indication that they would rather avoid scandal. And since half elves look exactly like humans, they could have said Maric did it with a human. But they didn't, so it shows that there is more to it than doing it with an elf.  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 mai 2010 - 03:42 .

[Serissia]

The part where Maric tells Fiona about him wanting to die isn't when they have sex. It's when he and her are talking about why they followed Genevieve. I haven't found it yet.

[SurelyForth]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Keep in mind that Rowan is also Queen and not just any woman.
The fact they had to keep the bastard a secret is indication that they would rather avoid scandal. And since half elves look exactly like humans, they could have said Maric did it with a human. But they didn't, so it shows that there is more to it than doing it with an elf.  

I think the elf factor is the factor, actually. Maric expressed a willingness to be in his son's life, but it was Fiona who didn't want the child to know he was half elf, even if he looked human. To me, that indicates that a person of known elven blood has it pretty rough.

Never mind the fact that his mother was also an Orlesian and a mage. She's the perfect storm of things that would cause the nobility to have a collective apoplexy if they knew that was anywhere near the throne, either in a relationship with Maric or through her son.

[Serissia]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Keep in mind that Rowan is also Queen and not just any woman.
The fact they had to keep the bastard a secret is indication that they would rather avoid scandal. And since half elves look exactly like humans, they could have said Maric did it with a human. But they didn't, so it shows that there is more to it than doing it with an elf.  

Fiona also asked Maric to keep their child a secret.  She asked him to see that he would have a normal life outside of Court as a normal human.  She didn't want him to end up like Maric... Ironically that's exactly where Alistair ends up (in some games). 

[KnightofPhoenix]

@SurelyForth. They could have lied though. They could have said the child is a pure human, concieved with some maid. Which is what they do with Alistair and yet Maric still alienated him. Definately being a half elf / son of a mage is political ****storm material, but they could lie and cover the facts and pretend the bastard is a human. So it seems to me that having a bastard, even if pure human, was illegitimate.

[Nu-Nu]

Serissia wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Keep in mind that Rowan is also Queen and not just any woman.
The fact they had to keep the bastard a secret is indication that they would rather avoid scandal. And since half elves look exactly like humans, they could have said Maric did it with a human. But they didn't, so it shows that there is more to it than doing it with an elf.  

Fiona also asked Maric to keep their child a secret.  She asked him to see that he would have a normal life outside of Court as a normal human.  She didn't want him to end up like Maric... Ironically that's exactly where Alistair ends up (in some games). 

That makes me think whether Alistair really should be king or not.  Mother's know best and all that...

[KnightofPhoenix]

Serissia wrote...
Fiona also asked Maric to keep their child a secret.  She asked him to see that he would have a normal life outside of Court as a normal human.  She didn't want him to end up like Maric... Ironically that's exactly where Alistair ends up (in some games). 

Then sending him to Eamon was not a good idea.  

[Serissia]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Then sending him to Eamon was not a good idea.  

Yes, well, no where is it said that Maric was praised for his intellect. 

[LadyDamodred]

Damnit! This is what I get for sleeping in and missing an awesome conversation!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Serissia wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Then sending him to Eamon was not a good idea.  

Yes, well, no where is it said that Maric was praised for his intellect. 

Intellect doesn't seem to be the forte of the Thereins as a whole. With the exception of Moira perhaps. And that's a big perhaps.

[Serissia]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Intellect doesn't seem to be the forte of the Thereins as a whole. With the exception of Moira perhaps. And that's a big perhaps.

Even Callenhad had his moments of stupidity and indscretion but he was charming and able to lead/inspire other men.  Those two traits seem to have followed through the Theirin line.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Serissia wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Intellect doesn't seem to be the forte of the Thereins as a whole. With the exception of Moira perhaps. And that's a big perhaps.

Even Callenhad had his moments of stupidity and indscretion but he was charming and able to lead/inspire other men.  Those two traits seem to have followed through the Theirin line.

I don't see why in DA, charismatic men have to be lacking in the intellect departement. Many real life figures were both very smart and very inspiring to others. Intellect is one of the requirements of what constitutes a great leader, imo.

[Serissia]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I don't see why in DA, charismatic men have to be lacking in the intellect departement. Many real life figures were both very smart and very inspiring to others. Intellect is one of the requirements of what constitutes a great leader, imo.

Well, I wouldn't say either Alistair or Maric are actually stupid.  Even though Maric was King it's not like he had a plethora of choices when it came to choosing who would raise his illegitimate bastard child.  He probably chose Eamon because he trusted the Guerrins.