60083 réponses à ce sujet

[LadyDamodred]

Serissia wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Alsitair is definately better than Cailan when hardened. But he still doesn't strike me as smart. Not saying he is a complete idiot (except when in the landsmeet), but intellect does not seem to be his forte to me. There are definately a lot smarter people out there, companion and otherwise.

I have mixed emotions on this because I generally play a stronge female character that takes over and does what needs to be done.  I believe even a hardened Alistair would look to the guidance of his wife and Eamon.  He's so incredibly and woefully ill prepaid to become King. 

He is unprepared, yes, but I think he adapts remarkably well when hardened, especially if he has someone he cares about to help him.  I look at his decision with Anora.  That is actually pretty forward thinking, which even Anora admits.  He's not stupid, not even a little.  The smartest man ever, no, but he doesn't need to be.  He is educated, don't forget that.  I think people confuse his goofy personality with his actual level of intelligence.

[MelRedux]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

If my father did this, I would have thought the same. If he needs to marry, I would understand, but to play around like that is just disrespectful imo.

But he wasn't "playing around", they fell in love.  He couldn't help falling in love with her.  This goes back to the previous question: Do you expect him to mourn forever?

All of what he did is an offense to Rowan. Falling in love, having sex and not marrying is also disrespecting Rowan and disrespecting his son

I can't agree with this at all....I don't see how any of this is disrespectful, 2 years after her death.  But I still love you KoP!!  Just for you (again!  This whole "no screenshot" thing is killing me):

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Maric had no respect to his dead wife's memory, to his son, to his position as King and if he did this purely for physical needs, then no respect for Fiona either. 

It was not purely physical.  It says that Fiona looks at him and sees the loneliness in his eyes.  And let's recall again that it was she, not he, who initiated the physical part.  After they each saved each other's lives.

Give me a break.  Is it so hard to understand?

No it's not. I understand compeletely.
And I still believe it's disrespectful. Is that hard to understand? That I might have a different opinion that yours?

And  this "she started it" is not an excuse. He could have stepped away. Unless you are now arguing that she raped him. 

Anora allows her adoration of her father to undermine her own rule both before and in some cases after Loghain's death.  Perhaps if he had been more present in her life as a child, she would not have put him on a pedestal.

Because she loves her father, that makes her a bad child and Loghain a bad father? If anything, that proves the contrary.

And building a statue of Loghain, a national hero, is now evidence that Loghain was a bad father? That makes no sense at all, sorry.

[SurelyForth]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Serissia wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Alsitair is definately better than Cailan when hardened. But he still doesn't strike me as smart. Not saying he is a complete idiot (except when in the landsmeet), but intellect does not seem to be his forte to me. There are definately a lot smarter people out there, companion and otherwise.

I have mixed emotions on this because I generally play a stronge female character that takes over and does what needs to be done.  I believe even a hardened Alistair would look to the guidance of his wife and Eamon.  He's so incredibly and woefully ill prepaid to become King. 

He is unprepared, yes, but I think he adapts remarkably well when hardened, especially if he has someone he cares about to help him.  I look at his decision with Anora.  That is actually pretty forward thinking, which even Anora admits.  He's not stupid, not even a little.  The smartest man ever, no, but he doesn't need to be.  He is educated, don't forget that.  I think people confuse his goofy personality with his actual level of intelligence.

And I think he buries it even more after Ostagar, because when you talk to him before your joining I think he comes across quite well, both in his presentation of the Wardens and his opinions of Cailan/Loghain. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Mel_Redux wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

If my father did this, I would have thought the same. If he needs to marry, I would understand, but to play around like that is just disrespectful imo.

But he wasn't "playing around", they fell in love.  He couldn't help falling in love with her.  This goes back to the previous question: Do you expect him to mourn forever?

Some of you, such as LD, are arguing that he didn't fall in love. Either way, it's the same.

And no, I expect him to marry. Fell in love with an elf? Well too bad, responsability of a King supercedes emotional needs in importance.

Mel_Redux wrote...

All of what he did is an offense to Rowan. Falling in love, having sex and not marrying is also disrespecting Rowan and disrespecting his son

I can't agree with this at all....I don't see how any of this is disrespectful, 2 years after her death.  But I still love you KoP!!  Just for you (again!  This whole "no screenshot" thing is killing me):

Aaah

And I realise I might have been too agressive. Again. Just to make it clear, I do love all of you!

[Sandtigress]

SurelyForth wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Serissia wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Alsitair is definately better than Cailan when hardened. But he still doesn't strike me as smart. Not saying he is a complete idiot (except when in the landsmeet), but intellect does not seem to be his forte to me. There are definately a lot smarter people out there, companion and otherwise.

I have mixed emotions on this because I generally play a stronge female character that takes over and does what needs to be done.  I believe even a hardened Alistair would look to the guidance of his wife and Eamon.  He's so incredibly and woefully ill prepaid to become King. 

He is unprepared, yes, but I think he adapts remarkably well when hardened, especially if he has someone he cares about to help him.  I look at his decision with Anora.  That is actually pretty forward thinking, which even Anora admits.  He's not stupid, not even a little.  The smartest man ever, no, but he doesn't need to be.  He is educated, don't forget that.  I think people confuse his goofy personality with his actual level of intelligence.

And I think he buries it even more after Ostagar, because when you talk to him before your joining I think he comes across quite well, both in his presentation of the Wardens and his opinions of Cailan/Loghain. 

Right - I think people mistake his self-deprecating humor as stupidity.  He's well-educated and reasonably intelligent, but woefully unsure of himself so that he doubts all of his talents. 

Even on his own, he makes a reasonable king, especially with the right advisors, so he can't be as stupid as even he makes himself out to be.

[Serissia]

LadyDamodred wrote...
He is unprepared, yes, but I think he adapts remarkably well when hardened, especially if he has someone he cares about to help him.  I look at his decision with Anora.  That is actually pretty forward thinking, which even Anora admits.  He's not stupid, not even a little.  The smartest man ever, no, but he doesn't need to be.  He is educated, don't forget that.  I think people confuse his goofy personality with his actual level of intelligence.

I never said/thought Alistair is stupid.  Additionally Alistair is capable and charming.  I've been saving that for the past couple of pages. 

I personally just play my Cousland as being slightly more important in the political aspects of thing. 

[MelRedux]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And I realise I might have been too agressive. Again. Just to make it clear, I do love all of you!

No!  Not at all!  I jsut don't want you to feel like we're ganging up on you.

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
You can say Maric dishonored Rowan by falling in love with Katriel, and I understand where you're coming from, even if I don't agree with it.  But how is what happened between Maric and Fiona disrespecting Rowan?  I would say wanting to die, being willing to leave their son an orphan, is way more disrespectful to her memory than falling in love.

All of what he did is an offense to Rowan. Falling in love, having sex and not marrying is also disrespecting Rowan and disrespecting his son.
If my father did this, I would have thought the same. If he needs to marry, I would understand, but to play around like that is just disrespectful imo.
Maric had no respect to his dead wife's memory, to his son, to his position as King and if he did this purely for physical needs, then no respect for Fiona either.

Are we talking about Katriel or Fiona here?  Because if we're talking about Fiona, to say Maric dishonored his dead wife by falling in love is just...wow.  And it reminds me way too much of selfish children when one of the their parents die, and they want their surviving parent to mourn forever and never move on because they are too caught up in their own pain.  It infuriates me, especially because I get to watch my grandmother treated like **** from her bf's family b/c they can't get over their anger that their mother has been dead for 15 years and their father has moved on.

As much as we might not like it, we often can't help who we love.  There is no dishonor in falling in love.  He also couldn't marry Fiona, so...again, I can't see that as being disrespectful.  As for the sex, again, she is dead and he is human.  Like I said, I got the impression Maric hadn't actually slept with anyone since Rowan died.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
Loghain abandoned his family.  He can chalk it up to whatever excuse he wants, but he did it.  And kids pick up on that, especially smart kids like Anora.  I think Loghain loved her, but he was a pretty terrible father.

Seeing how Anora is a great woman, I would say Loghain succeeded pretty well in beign a good father. But since all of you hate Anora, I won't expect you to agree.

Having a great father does not mean you become a great person.  Not does becoming a great person mean you had a great father.  People rise above the odds all the time.  I think Anora was smart enough to make herself into what she was.  She may have inherited her tenacity and drive from Loghain, but Loghain was still an absent father.  He ran from his family and his responsibilities to them.  That does not make him a good father and I think Anora turned out the way she did despite him, not because of him.

I might hate Anora, but that doesn't make me irrational.  My hate stems from the fact that she will betray and backstab people to keep her power, including her father.  Using people is fine, lying to weakena politcal rival, fine.  Hell, my PC lies to her about keeping her on the throne b/c she knows damn well what will happen if she tells Anora what she's really planning.  It's what she does with Cauthrien and her father that especially bugs me.  And the fact that she thinks she knows Alistair better than I do.  *grumps*

And you know how I think Loghain feels when Anora backstabs him at the Landsmeet.

Edit:  I am not arguing that he didn't fall in love.  He did.  That is my point.  It's not just sex/release for him, and thus I don't see it as disrespectful.  And it seems bizarre that you would say he should marry her anyway and politcal repercussions be damned.  O.o

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 26 mai 2010 - 05:13 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sandtigress wrote...
Even on his own, he makes a reasonable king, especially with the right advisors, so he can't be as stupid as even he makes himself out to be.

Just to make it clear, I never said Alistair is stupid. He is definately smarter than Cailan. It's only his actions at the landmseet that I qualify as stupid.

But I did not see any brilliance in the intellect departement from him. Intellect doesnt' seem to be his forte. That doesn't mean he has no intellect.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
Are we talking about Katriel or Fiona here?  Because if we're talking about Fiona, to say Maric dishonored his dead wife by falling in love is just...wow. 

No and I made it perfectly clear in my other comments. It's perfectly natural for him to fall in love. But he should marry and not play around, otherwise it's just disrespect.

And since Fiona is an elf and he can't marry her, then he should not have done anything with her, even if he loves her. Him doing it is direspectful to Rowan, his son, his position and Fiona imo yes.

LadyDamodred wrote...
Edit:  I am not arguing that he didn't fall in love.  He did.  That is my point.  It's not just sex/release for him, and thus I don't see it as disrespectful.  And it seems bizarre that you would say he should marry her anyway and politcal repercussions be damned.  O.o

No, I didn't say that. I said his responsabilities as King supercedes his emotional needs. As such, he should not have done anythign with Fiona, not even have sex with her. Otherwise, that's disrespecting Fiona even.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 mai 2010 - 05:19 .

[Gilsa]

Several pages back, it got mentioned that Eamon does not say anything when Alistair gets executed so I looked into the toolset. There are simply no lines given for Eamon in this situation. So I looked up his dialogue at Redcliffe where he has comments about the outcome of Landsmeet. There are only three branches -- 1) if Anora and Alistair are engaged 2) if Alistair rules alone and 3) if Anora rules alone. So if Alistair was executed, Eamon would likely go into "so Loghain's daughter sits on the throne and the Theirin bloodline is ended" (still same line for when Alistair leaves or stays as long as Anora is the queen either way). If Alistair is executed, there's just an absence of follow-up. Same thing for his post-coronation followup -- the conditions are dependent on who the ruler is. I personally get the impression that it's more of lack of resources than Eamon not caring about what happens to Alistair at Landsmeet.

[Sandtigress]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Edit:  I am not arguing that he didn't fall in love.  He did.  That is my point.  It's not just sex/release for him, and thus I don't see it as disrespectful.  And it seems bizarre that you would say he should marry her anyway and politcal repercussions be damned.  O.o

I think had Maric had his way, he would have tried to arrange something permanent with Fiona, just like he wanted to make Katriel his wife.  He might have been politically savvy enough by then to realize that marriage was impossible, but Fiona clearly understands him as wanting something long-term, which she nixes.  Fiona was much more practical and realized that nothing they tried would work, or at least be satisfactory to the both of them, which is why she left.

Ever since the books I have always seen Maric as an honorable man who tried his best to do right by those he loved, but failed often at it, and I think that left a deep mark on him.

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
No, I didn't say that. I said his responsabilities as King supercedes his emotional needs. As such, he should not have done anythign with Fiona, not even have sex with her. Otherwise, that's disrespecting Fiona even.

I think this is getting back to our old argument, KoP, about how people are human and flawed and cannot always look at things logically.  I think that especially applies to Maric at that point.  He's sort of messed up.  And since Fiona never expected to ever love anyone, I think she's in a 'take what she can get' situation.  It breaks her heart, but better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all?

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Anora allows her adoration of her father to undermine her own rule both before and in some cases after Loghain's death.  Perhaps if he had been more present in her life as a child, she would not have put him on a pedestal.

Because she loves her father, that makes her a bad child and Loghain a bad father? If anything, that proves the contrary.

And building a statue of Loghain, a national hero, is now evidence that Loghain was a bad father? That makes no sense at all, sorry.

You are willing to make allowances for Anora's love for her father, but not emotions on Maric's part.  Hence my earlier statement of bias.

Building a statue is a symptom of what I'm talking about, not the core.  She allows her father to bulldoze her after Ostagar and it nearly ruins the entire country.  Though she talks a good game about being all about Ferelden, she will nullify a marriage to Alistair if he kills Loghain himself (a quibble, really, since Alistair calls for Loghain's head regardless of who actually does the deed- and if Alistair's insistence on justice for his father figure's death is "lack of intellect," then Anora demonstrates the same ).  She allows an irrational adoration of her father to prevent her from re-marrying, thus depriving the kingdom of an heir.  This may also be because she loathes sharing power, but Loghain is given as the explicit reason why she doesn't remarry.

Anora's preening self-confidence shouldn't be taken at face value, just as Alistair's underrating of himself shouldn't be.  Both of them are not what they make themselves out to be.

Modifié par Addai67, 26 mai 2010 - 05:25 .

[Serissia]

LadyDamodred wrote...
 It breaks her heart, but better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all?

That's a grass is always greener statement if I've ever heard one.  I don't believe in true love so, perhaps I'm bias.

I suppose in Maric's case it worked out for the better though.  He took that human connection he made w/ Fiona and used it to harden himself and become the father and King he needed to be after TC. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
No, I didn't say that. I said his responsabilities as King supercedes his emotional needs. As such, he should not have done anythign with Fiona, not even have sex with her. Otherwise, that's disrespecting Fiona even.

I think this is getting back to our old argument, KoP, about how people are human and flawed and cannot always look at things logically.  I think that especially applies to Maric at that point.  He's sort of messed up.  And since Fiona never expected to ever love anyone, I think she's in a 'take what she can get' situation.  It breaks her heart, but better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all?

And that's why I think people like him should not be kings / Queens. And that's not degrading them. I think Maric would have been an awesome and very fun person if he wasn't burdened with this.

That's why I believe a succesful ruler actually has to like ruling. People like Bhelen and Anora, who won't be as emotionally burdened by this as Maric or Alistair. Taht does not mean to say that they are superior, in fact you can argue the contrary and it would be valid.
It's just that they are better ruler, because they like it. alternatively, that can potentially also make them dangerous, yes I am aware. 

[Addai]

Sandtigress wrote...

I think had Maric had his way, he would have tried to arrange something permanent with Fiona, just like he wanted to make Katriel his wife.  He might have been politically savvy enough by then to realize that marriage was impossible, but Fiona clearly understands him as wanting something long-term, which she nixes.  Fiona was much more practical and realized that nothing they tried would work, or at least be satisfactory to the both of them, which is why she left.

It reminds me of our elven characters.  A lot of other people seem to play Fiona types who break up with Alistair if he's made king.  I'm not sure that what Fiona does is really the practical thing, though.  It certainly has consequences she doesn't intend.  Then again, she wasn't the Hero of Ferelden, so it would have been more difficult for her to stay with Maric than it is for the PC in Origins.

So... did Maric really die?  Is he hiding out somewhere, like.... in the Anderfels with Fiona?  If Flemeth told him that he had to get out of the way because it would have consequences for the Blight, I wonder if he did that.  Funny that people also talked about Calenhad still being alive after he was supposedly dead.  It's like Elvis, I guess.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
Building a statue is a symptom of what I'm talking about, not the core.  She allows her father to bulldoze her after Ostagar and it nearly ruins the entire country.  Though she talks a good game about being all about Ferelden, she will nullify a marriage to Alistair if he kills Loghain himself (a quibble, really, since Alistair calls for Loghain's head regardless of who actually does the deed- and if Alistair's insistence on justice for his father figure's death is "lack of intellect," then Anora demonstrates the same ).  She allows an irrational adoration of her father to prevent her from re-marrying, thus depriving the kingdom of an heir.  This may also be because she loathes sharing power, but Loghain is given as the explicit reason why she doesn't remarry.

A- her father commands the army and is the most powerful man in Ferelden. His ally is also the Teyrn of Highever and Arl of Amaranthine. Anora has no direct ally. How do you expect her to stand against Loghain? She doesn't allow him, she couldn't stop him. Then, she does try to stop him.

B- Yes, Anora not wanting to kill her father's murderer is a sign of lack of intellect. Of course
How is that similar to Maric playing around with no respect to his position, his dead wife and his son and wanting to die abandonning everyone he supposedely loves?

C- That's not how I see it. She refuses to marry anyone inferior to Loghain. That doesn't mean Loghain 's memory is stopping her from arrying. It's like any child who wants to marry someone similar to their parent. Nothing wrong with this. If she finds someone like Loghain, she would marry him. No, it's not perfectly rational. bUt it';s not a sign that she is stupid.

Addai67 wrote...
You are willing to make allowances for Anora's love for her father, but not emotions on Maric's part.  Hence my earlier statement of bias.

How so?
Anora's love towards her father didn't drive her to want to die, or have illegitimate sex and betray Cailan's memory or abandon a child if she had one, or abandon her duties and responsabilities as Queen. She stands against Loghain and wants him stopped, but she doesn't want him killed.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 mai 2010 - 05:36 .

[Sandtigress]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


That's why I believe a succesful ruler actually has to like ruling. People like Bhelen and Anora, who won't be as emotionally burdened by this as Maric or Alistair. Taht does not mean to say that they are superior, in fact you can argue the contrary and it would be valid.
It's just that they are better ruler, because they like it. alternatively, that can potentially also make them dangerous, yes I am aware. 

Actually, I've almost always been under the impression that the best leaders are the reluctant ones, precisely because they're not in it for themselves.  They seem more likely, to me, to take into account the needs of all, rather than their own personal goals and desires.

King Alistair is more proactive in his aid of the city elves, for instance, than is Queen Anora, by appointing an elf to his counsel.  Anora simply lets things go on as they were and then has to stop riots when food becomes scarce.  Anora is willing to steam-roll the Wardens at the Landsmeet to become Queen, whereas Alistair is willing to sacrifice his own happiness and take the throne in order to do what's best for everyone and end the Blight.

Anora and her father seem less likely to me to make personal sacrifices for the good of the kingdom - Anora refuses to marry again even for the sake of producing an heir, which we know will likely lead to civil war.  Alistair ends the relationship with the love of his life in order to do his best to ensure that an heir is produced and thus the stability of the kingdom ensured.

[Serissia]

Addai67 wrote...
It reminds me of our elven characters.  A lot of other people seem to play Fiona types who break up with Alistair if he's made king.  I'm not sure that what Fiona does is really the practical thing, though.  It certainly has consequences she doesn't intend.  Then again, she wasn't the Hero of Ferelden, so it would have been more difficult for her to stay with Maric than it is for the PC in Origins.

So... did Maric really die?  Is he hiding out somewhere, like.... in the Anderfels with Fiona?  If Flemeth told him that he had to get out of the way because it would have consequences for the Blight, I wonder if he did that.  Funny that people also talked about Calenhad still being alive after he was supposedly dead.  It's like Elvis, I guess.

Gaider seems to imply that Maric is dead.  I recall in one thread where Gaider says that sometimes people simply die and it's rather unglamourous. 

[errant_knight]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
No, I didn't say that. I said his responsabilities as King supercedes his emotional needs. As such, he should not have done anythign with Fiona, not even have sex with her. Otherwise, that's disrespecting Fiona even.

I think this is getting back to our old argument, KoP, about how people are human and flawed and cannot always look at things logically.  I think that especially applies to Maric at that point.  He's sort of messed up.  And since Fiona never expected to ever love anyone, I think she's in a 'take what she can get' situation.  It breaks her heart, but better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all?

And that's why I think people like him should not be kings / Queens. And that's not degrading them. I think Maric would have been an awesome and very fun person if he wasn't burdened with this.

That's why I believe a succesful ruler actually has to like ruling. People like Bhelen and Anora, who won't be as emotionally burdened by this as Maric or Alistair. Taht does not mean to say that they are superior, in fact you can argue the contrary and it would be valid.
It's just that they are better ruler, because they like it. alternatively, that can potentially also make them dangerous, yes I am aware. 

This is exactly why, while respecting each other's opinions, you and I will never reach consensus, KoP. What you see as making them qualified, I see as disqualifying them without question. We're just on opposite sides of the spectrum and no amount of discussion can bring convergence.

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
No, I didn't say that. I said his responsabilities as King supercedes his emotional needs. As such, he should not have done anythign with Fiona, not even have sex with her. Otherwise, that's disrespecting Fiona even.

I think this is getting back to our old argument, KoP, about how people are human and flawed and cannot always look at things logically.  I think that especially applies to Maric at that point.  He's sort of messed up.  And since Fiona never expected to ever love anyone, I think she's in a 'take what she can get' situation.  It breaks her heart, but better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all?

And that's why I think people like him should not be kings / Queens. And that's not degrading them. I think Maric would have been an awesome and very fun person if he wasn't burdened with this.

That's why I believe a succesful ruler actually has to like ruling. People like Bhelen and Anora, who won't be as emotionally burdened by this as Maric or Alistair. Taht does not mean to say that they are superior, in fact you can argue the contrary and it would be valid.
It's just that they are better ruler, because they like it. alternatively, that can potentially also make them dangerous, yes I am aware. 

Except most people are like that, KoP.  They cannot divorce emotions from who they are.  People that can tend to be labeled as psychopaths because it is such an inhuman thing to do.  Note, I am NOT calling you a psychopath b/c you clearly have and cater to emotions, even if it's not as much as the average person.  I think you just expect something that is truly not realistic.

Seri:  I don't know if I believe that it's better to have loved and lost.  I think for Maric and Fiona it is.  But look at a unhardened Leliana romance when the PC takes the US.  Sometimes, loving someone breaks you, especially when you lose them.  In cases like that, would it have been better to never have loved them at all?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sandtigress wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


That's why I believe a succesful ruler actually has to like ruling. People like Bhelen and Anora, who won't be as emotionally burdened by this as Maric or Alistair. Taht does not mean to say that they are superior, in fact you can argue the contrary and it would be valid.
It's just that they are better ruler, because they like it. alternatively, that can potentially also make them dangerous, yes I am aware. 

Actually, I've almost always been under the impression that the best leaders are the reluctant ones, precisely because they're not in it for themselves.  They seem more likely, to me, to take into account the needs of all, rather than their own personal goals and desires.

I am not talking about fairytales. I am talking about real life history. The great ones are the ones who want to rule, not necessarily for its own sake and not necessarily solely for themselves. One could have greast ambitions for himself, but also ambition to serve the people or an ideal and he could love doing just that.

And Anora's achievements as Queen are more impressive to me than Alistair improving the lost of the elves. But this is another topic.
 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 mai 2010 - 05:40 .

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

A- her father commands the army and is the most powerful man in Ferelden. His ally is also the Teyrn of Highever and Arl of Amaranthine. Anora has no direct ally. How do you expect her to stand against Loghain? She doesn't allow him, she couldn't stop him.

Excuses, excuses.  Of course she could stop him if she really wanted to.  She admits to the PC that she didn't try to stop him because she trusted him.  A blind trust.  If you're going to tell me that this is understandable, then I'm going to throw back at you all the ways that Maric's actions are understandable.

B- Yes, Anora not wanting to kill her father's murderer is a sign of lack of intellect. Of course
How is that similar to Maric playing around with no respect to his position, his dead wife and his son and wanting to die abandonning everyone he supposedely loves?

You keep saying that Alistair's actions in the Landsmeet show a lack of intellect.  As if Anora is all cool head and selfless logic.

C- That's not how I see it. She refuses to marry anyone inferior to Loghain. That doesn't mean Loghain 's memory is stopping her from arrying. It's like any child who wants to marry someone similar to their parent. Nothing wrong with this. If she finds someone like Loghain, she would marry him. No, it's not perfectly rational. bUt it';s not a sign that she is stupid.

I didn't say it was evidence of stupidity, but that she put him on a pedestal, and that this probably came about because she didn't ever get to know him as a man rather than a distant legend.  And, lol @ the idea that every other man in Thedas is "inferior" to Loghain.  She's not the only one who has a pedestal for him. 

In this case, Anora's celibacy actually is detrimental to the kingdom in the long run, though it's not yet clear to me how Maric's supposed infidelity (after his wife's death) is.

All of this is to illustrate that you're willing to make allowances for Anora's weaknesses, and for Loghain's, but when it comes to Maric, Cailan and Alistair, they just don't cut it and should get out of the game entirely.


The thread needs a squee injection this morning...

Modifié par Addai67, 26 mai 2010 - 05:49 .