60083 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
Except most people are like that, KoP.  They cannot divorce emotions from who they are.  People that can tend to be labeled as psychopaths because it is such an inhuman thing to do.  Note, I am NOT calling you a psychopath b/c you clearly have and cater to emotions, even if it's not as much as the average person.  I think you just expect something that is truly not realistic.

I know, hence why I am an elitist. I believe only a few are made to rule. That does not make them superior and it might make them unlikeable persons. But I believe they should be the ones ruling. 

And controlling emotions =/= divorcing emotions from who they are. 
I never supress my emotions and when I am angry, I don't hide that fact from myself and know full well that I am angry. I just do not let it cloud my  judgement and reason. Apply that to any other emotion.

[Serissia]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I am not talking about fairytales. I am talking about real life history. The great ones are the ones who want to rule, not necessarily for its own sake and not necessarily solely for themselves. One could have greast ambitions for himself, but also ambition to serve the people or an ideal and he could love doing just that.

That's a double edged sword argument though.  Some of the greatest tyrants would also fall into that category.  It all depends on the person that is doing the ruling.  Either that person has the interest of the nation and it's people at heart or doesn't. 

[Serissia]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I never supress my emotions and when I am angry, I don't hide that fact from myself and know full well that I am angry. I just do not let it cloud my  judgement and reason. Apply that to any other emotion.

No bitter vindication?  Come now, where is the fun in that?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

A- her father commands the army and is the most powerful man in Ferelden. His ally is also the Teyrn of Highever and Arl of Amaranthine. Anora has no direct ally. How do you expect her to stand against Loghain? She doesn't allow him, she couldn't stop him.

Excuses, excuses.  Of course she could stop him if she really wanted to.  She admits to the PC that she didn't try to stop him because she trusted him.  A blind trust.  If you're going to tell me that this is understandable, then I'm going to throw back at you all the ways that Maric's actions are understandable.

If you bothered to pay attention at the cutscenes, you would see how Anora feels.
And of course she is going to initially trust the Hero of the River Dane, who loyalty to his coutnry is unquestioned. And her trust was not blind, it's clear Loghain was doing what he thought was best. She realised later than his actions are not for the best and she does stand against him.

Addai67 wrote...
You keep saying that Alistair's actions in the Landsmeet show a lack of intellect.  As if Anora is all cool head and selfless logic.

Anora did not betray her nation, nor did she decide to abandon it. That's what Alistair did.
Her not wanting to marry her father's killer is not a sign of lack of intellect. No one was asking Alsitair to marry Loghain or even like him. He was asked to shut up and fight the blight, which he does not do, thus gets himself killed. Yes, that's idiotic.

I didn't say it was evidence of stupidity, but that she put him on a pedestal, and that this probably came about because she didn't ever get to know him as a man rather than a distant legend.  And, lol @ the idea that every other man in Thedas is "inferior" to Loghain.  She's not the only one who has a pedestal for him. 

In this case, Anora's celibacy actually is detrimental to the kingdom in the long run, though it's not yet clear to me how Maric's supposed infidelity (after his wife's death) is.

Where did I say everyone in Thedas is inferior to Loghain (my PC is defiantely better.)? That's what Anora thinks and her father is indeed not common. She simply wants a man like her father and she hasn't met one yet. Not the most rational thing, but you seem to confuse rationality with intellect and they are not compeltely the same. No one is 100% rational.

Anora is very smart and accomplished, thus she has great intellect. Alistair and Maric do not strike me as having the same amount of intelligence. And I never said Maric's act with Fiona is a lack of intellect, I said it was a lack of respect.

The intellect thing was a compeltely different tagent. Hence why you do not seem to understand what I am saying Addai. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 mai 2010 - 05:58 .

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
Except most people are like that, KoP.  They cannot divorce emotions from who they are.  People that can tend to be labeled as psychopaths because it is such an inhuman thing to do.  Note, I am NOT calling you a psychopath b/c you clearly have and cater to emotions, even if it's not as much as the average person.  I think you just expect something that is truly not realistic.

I know, hence why I am an elitist. I believe only a few are made to rule. That does not make them superior and it might make them unlikeable persons. But I believe they should be the ones ruling. 

And controlling emotions =/= divorcing emotions from who they are. 
I never supress my emotions and when I am angry, I don't hide that fact from myself and know full well that I am angry. I just do not let it cloud my  judgement and reason. Apply that to any other emotion.

Except I don't think that's possible to do.  When you are truly angry, how do you keep it seperate enough from yourself to think perfectly coolly and logically?  Believe me, I have been enraged/hurt in my time, and in the midst, as logical as I like to be, it cannot be seperated.  It must be a part of how I think and react.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
Except I don't think that's possible to do.  When you are truly angry, how do you keep it seperate enough from yourself to think perfectly coolly and logically?  Believe me, I have been enraged/hurt in my time, and in the midst, as logical as I like to be, it cannot be seperated.  It must be a part of how I think and react.

I can. And if I know that I can't, then I try not to decide anything important and let someone else do the thinking until I chill, which happens very fast (I usually always end up laughing after I get angry anyways).

That doesn't mean I would change how I think about whoever or whatever it is that made me angry. And I probably wouldnt' forget. I just would not let it influence my thinking, at least not up to the point where it becomes irrational. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 mai 2010 - 06:01 .

[cmessaz]

Not to change the subject, but how old do you guys place the CEF?

[Serissia]

cmessaz wrote...

Not to change the subject, but how old do you guys place the CEF?

Personally I see that they're all between 17-20.  The age range gives some leeway for the player to decide what they feel fits best.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Serissia wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I am not talking about fairytales. I am talking about real life history. The great ones are the ones who want to rule, not necessarily for its own sake and not necessarily solely for themselves. One could have greast ambitions for himself, but also ambition to serve the people or an ideal and he could love doing just that.

That's a double edged sword argument though.  Some of the greatest tyrants would also fall into that category.  It all depends on the person that is doing the ruling.  Either that person has the interest of the nation and it's people at heart or doesn't. 

Of course, and I pointed this out before.

It will depend on individual leaders yes, but I think a basic requirement for a great leader is being ambitious. It's liking to rule, not necessiraely for its own sake, but to help others as well. That's the difference between a tyrant who likes to rule purely for its own sake, and the great leader who likes to rule not only for himself, but for his nation as well.

[cmessaz]

Serissia wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Not to change the subject, but how old do you guys place the CEF?

Personally I see that they're all between 17-20.  The age range gives some leeway for the player to decide what they feel fits best.

See, I was thinking 17-18, because of the arranged marriage. Cool, thanks! Don't mind me, get back to what you were up to!  

[Lady Jess]

Random off topic squee...I asked for two of my dwarves to be commisioned, yay! and I finally finished setting up my new Deviant Art account, and getting my stuff moved from the old one. Double Yay!



http://theladyjess.deviantart.com/



And Good Morning all!

[LadyDamodred]

Serissia wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Not to change the subject, but how old do you guys place the CEF?

Personally I see that they're all between 17-20.  The age range gives some leeway for the player to decide what they feel fits best.

19/20.  I always put it as dad arranging the marriage b/c she really needs to stop being a child.  He let her get an extra couple of years, maybe, as a gesture to her mother.

It's a weird dichotomy b/c my CEF is older than my HNF, but is very much more naive/innocent/trusting.  Seems like it should be the other way around, but that's how the characters created themselves.

[Serissia]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Of course, and I pointed this out before.

It will depend on individual leaders yes, but I think a basic requirement for a great leader is being ambitious. It's liking to rule, not necessiraely for its own sake, but to help others as well. That's the difference between a tyrant who likes to rule purely for its own sake, and the great leader who likes to rule not only for himself, but for his nation as well.

I agree w/ you.  Applying that to DA there's a huge difference between unhardened and hardened Alistair.  By the time the Landsmeet ends he actually wants to rule and thus does a better job of it than an unhardened Alistair that is forced into a position he never wanted to take.  

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

If you bothered to pay attention at the cutscenes, you would see how Anora feels.
And of course she is going to initially trust the Hero of the River Dane, who loyalty to his coutnry is unquestioned. And her trust was not blind, it's clear Loghain was doing what he thought was best. She realised later than his actions are not for the best and she does stand against him.

IF it leads to her keeping her throne.  Otherwise, she'll happily perpetuate his hero status.

And once again, excuses excuses...

Anora did not betray her nation, nor did she decide to abandon it. That's what Alistair did.

By her stubborn refusal to keep to her agreement to marry Alistair, she does abandon her responsibilities.  Unless you see wasting away in the Tower as honorable service to Ferelden.  She will also refuse to swear fealty to him as sole ruler no matter the conditions under which he became such.  She is every much as irrational and self-serving as Alistair in the Landsmeet, and every bit as useless to Ferelden if things don't go her way.

Where did I say everyone in Thedas is inferior to Loghain (my PC is defiantely better.)? That's what Anora thinks and her father is indeed not common. She simply wants a man like her father and she hasn't met one yet. Not the most rational thing, but you seem to confuse rationality with intellect and they are not compeltely the same. No one is 100% rational.

We are talking about aspects of Anora's character that make her a flawed ruler, every bit as flawed as the Theirins, just in a different direction.  Not that I agree with you that Anora is some great intellect.  She's obviously intelligent, but she also had the advantage over Alistair of the best education, as provided by Maric I might add.  I think you're confusing a serious manner and arrogance with actual ability.

[cmessaz]

Lady D- I am the opposite. I generally place my HN at about 20 or 21 even. My CE seems younger, though I can't seem to make her look that way.

[Sandtigress]

Addai67 wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...

I think had Maric had his way, he would have tried to arrange something permanent with Fiona, just like he wanted to make Katriel his wife.  He might have been politically savvy enough by then to realize that marriage was impossible, but Fiona clearly understands him as wanting something long-term, which she nixes.  Fiona was much more practical and realized that nothing they tried would work, or at least be satisfactory to the both of them, which is why she left.

It reminds me of our elven characters.  A lot of other people seem to play Fiona types who break up with Alistair if he's made king.  I'm not sure that what Fiona does is really the practical thing, though.  It certainly has consequences she doesn't intend.  Then again, she wasn't the Hero of Ferelden, so it would have been more difficult for her to stay with Maric than it is for the PC in Origins.

So... did Maric really die?  Is he hiding out somewhere, like.... in the Anderfels with Fiona?  If Flemeth told him that he had to get out of the way because it would have consequences for the Blight, I wonder if he did that.  Funny that people also talked about Calenhad still being alive after he was supposedly dead.  It's like Elvis, I guess.

Of course, a difference is that Maric had already "done his duty" and had an heir, and so would not necessarily have to enter into another official relationship, while Alistair knows that he will need to.

That legitimizes ending the relationship, I think, whether or not your PC decides to go that route.

I'm of the opinion that alas, Maric probably is dead, though it would be lovely and romantic if he was with Fiona again.

[LadyDamodred]

Ugh!  It's so freaking hot!  heat index is 96!  *cries*

Alistair has the right idea.

[Serissia]

cmessaz wrote...

Lady D- I am the opposite. I generally place my HN at about 20 or 21 even. My CE seems younger, though I can't seem to make her look that way.

kida + elfa skin textures is probably the best bet if you're not already using that combination. 

[Serissia]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Ugh!  It's so freaking hot!  heat index is 96!  *cries*

I just put the AC in.  It's only 92 here though.

[Herr Uhl]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
Except I don't think that's possible to do.  When you are truly angry, how do you keep it seperate enough from yourself to think perfectly coolly and logically?  Believe me, I have been enraged/hurt in my time, and in the midst, as logical as I like to be, it cannot be seperated.  It must be a part of how I think and react.

I can. And if I know that I can't, then I try not to decide anything important and let someone else do the thinking until I chill, which happens very fast (I usually always end up laughing after I get angry anyways).

That doesn't mean I would change how I think about whoever or whatever it is that made me angry. And I probably wouldnt' forget. I just would not let it influence my thinking, at least not up to the point where it becomes irrational. 

Not to be an ass, but what kind of emotional trauma have you gone through? I only loose control when I am drunk and get angry, and then only at inanimate objects, but I don't think I've ever been through something that left any real dent. Thinking that you would be rational in situations is very different from actually being it.

There is no need to answer that first question if there actually is something. Just that I've heard this talk before and it has often showed itself to be BS. Not that there is anything wrong with confidence.

Back to your topic.

[LadyDamodred]

cmessaz wrote...

Lady D- I am the opposite. I generally place my HN at about 20 or 21 even. My CE seems younger, though I can't seem to make her look that way.

It certainly makes sense that way, I agree.  That's just not how it worked out.  XD  The best characters are the ones that tell you who they are.  Might eb why these are my two favorites.

[cmessaz]

LadyDamodred wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Lady D- I am the opposite. I generally place my HN at about 20 or 21 even. My CE seems younger, though I can't seem to make her look that way.

It certainly makes sense that way, I agree.  That's just not how it worked out.  XD  The best characters are the ones that tell you who they are.  Might eb why these are my two favorites.

Alas, I have the imagination of a rock.

[cmessaz]

And when you all wanna come to Az, then we can talk. This time of year I stay indoors. Though today it's only 92, that is great I may go outside later.

Modifié par cmessaz, 26 mai 2010 - 06:22 .

[LadyDamodred]

cmessaz wrote...

And when you all wanna come to Az, then we can talk. This time of year I stay indoors.

I don't wanna leave my ocean!  *huggles the Atlantic*

And I love creating characters.  It's probably one of the most fun things I do when playing D&D.

[cmessaz]

LadyDamodred wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

And when you all wanna come to Az, then we can talk. This time of year I stay indoors.

I don't wanna leave my ocean!  *huggles the Atlantic*

And I love creating characters.  It's probably one of the most fun things I do when playing D&D.

Oh I just get all stupid about every little detail. I am driving myself nuts.

THIS is infuriating. I hate that stupid little picture!

Modifié par cmessaz, 26 mai 2010 - 06:25 .