60083 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

No one is "smarter in ignorance". One can be right, in ignorance yes, but that's being right for the wrong reasons.
And historically speaking, it was an army of the Wardens who defeated the blights, not two Wardens. Furthermore, Anora has no qualms about asking the Orlesians to help (as is evidenced in the cutscene), that was Loghain. In addition, Loghain still has an army and nothing indicates it's lesser in numbers than the army you gathered, which is pretty small. 

They know their numbers aren't sufficient.  That's in the Denerim cutscenes, too, and is hinted at by the attempt of Loghain's ambassadors to demand alliance of Orzammar.  Meanwhile, the Wardens actually can compel Orzammar and others to help, and are successful in doing so.  Whether Anora is willing to ask Orlais for help or not, she knows by the Landsmeet that there is no more time to get it.  She is so determined to keep power no matter what that in the end, she really doesn't care about all that.  That's why she pouts and goes off to the Tower rather than recognize that she has, in fact, been outplayed and overpowered.  Which brings me to...

But even when she is self interested, she would remain to fight for her nation, even if she fails. Alistair unfortunately does not do that when he doesn't get his way, and prefers to abandon his people to their fate.

I illustrated upthread how she refuses to remain and fight for her nation if she doesn't get her way.  She would rather go off and sulk in the Tower than do this, in fact.  Or else she tries to publicly undermine the new ruler in a fit of pique rather than sucking it up and bending the knee, serving as example by doing so.

Modifié par Addai67, 26 mai 2010 - 07:32 .

[cmessaz]

Sandtigress wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

And again just for the record, after telling him about the murder of your family, the VO notes for his response say something about him being "mortified"

Gaider has confirmed that he didn't know explicitly that it was your family who was murdered - more like camp rumors "Oh yeah, she's from Highever" "Hey, did you hear all the Couslands were murdered" and he never had the time to put two and two together to realize that you were a Cousland and that it was YOUR family who was all killed.

He sounds very sincerely remorseful when you tell him, and says that it was stupid of him not to remember and to go on like that about it.  It's quite sad.

That doesn't work so well to me when you talk about your family being slain at Flemeth's hut, and you want to go look for your brother. He doesn't seem surpised at all when you talk about it then. But I think this is just poor writing.

Modifié par cmessaz, 26 mai 2010 - 07:36 .

[LadyDamodred]

Lady Jess wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

And again just for the record, after telling him about the murder of your family, the VO notes for his response say something about him being "mortified"

Gaider has confirmed that he didn't know explicitly that it was your family who was murdered - more like camp rumors "Oh yeah, she's from Highever" "Hey, did you hear all the Couslands were murdered" and he never had the time to put two and two together to realize that you were a Cousland and that it was YOUR family who was all killed.

He sounds very sincerely remorseful when you tell him, and says that it was stupid of him not to remember and to go on like that about it.  It's quite sad.

Yeah, and I think the Cousland gets the best conversation there.

That explantion doesn't work nearly so well if you talk to Jory out in the Wilds and tell him who you are.  What, was Alistair just not listening?  *grumbles*

[Addai]

Kryyptehk wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And I hope I haven't offended anyone, especially you Addai.
As a proof of my good will, I'll post my second pic of Alistair.

Ohh, no.  I like a good bracing debate, and you're an excellent sparring partner.  You and my husband both, and he's another rah-rah Anora person.  You two should get together for beers.

[zevran]  There's nothing like a good racking.  [/zevran]

lol Your husband posted in a fanfic thread yesterday on the Community Creations forum, and at first I was like "Eh?  Addai doesn't read fanfic..."  Then he said that it was him, and thanking the author for an Anora/Cousland fic.  

Is Addai's husband on here or does he just share her account?

It's his account, actually.  LOL  He bought the game, but up until recently I was the only one who used the forums.  He does post occasionally now.  He'll preface his posts with "(Husband posting)" or something like that.  There was one thread where I posted something dissing Anora and then scrolled up and he had posted something in praise of her.  We have fun discussions about this at home, too. 

Modifié par Addai67, 26 mai 2010 - 07:36 .

[SurelyForth]

LadyDamodred wrote...
That explantion doesn't work nearly so well if you talk to Jory out in the Wilds and tell him who you are.  What, was Alistair just not listening?  *grumbles*

Why would he be? He's not stuck to the PC like glue the entire game, I imagine when you stop for these conversations your party isn't hanging on your every word.

I discovered that roleplaying someone who Just Doesn't Want to Talk About It, OK? is the best way to go here. I can't imagine unloading that sort of tragedy bomb on someone who didn't already know me when it happened for a long, long time. I'm not even bothered by that conversation anymore.

Pictures, people! Who wants a page that's just full of words!

Modifié par SurelyForth, 26 mai 2010 - 07:40 .

[Addai]

Lady Jess wrote...

The only time I had the apology option come up was after "why did you keep your birthright a secret" and choosing "I did like you, now I don't know who you are" or something like that.

I might have to do this.  New dialogue options, yay!  As hard as it is to provoke Alistair sadface, if you have a PC where it works it makes things more interesting sometimes.  Same with Zevran.

[cmessaz]

Addai67 wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

The only time I had the apology option come up was after "why did you keep your birthright a secret" and choosing "I did like you, now I don't know who you are" or something like that.

I might have to do this.  New dialogue options, yay!  As hard as it is to provoke Alistair sadface, if you have a PC where it works it makes things more interesting sometimes.  Same with Zevran.

Oh god I dumped Zev with my mage, and it was so very sad. I NEVER want to do it again.

[Lady Jess]

SurelyForth wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
That explantion doesn't work nearly so well if you talk to Jory out in the Wilds and tell him who you are.  What, was Alistair just not listening?  *grumbles*

Why would he be? He's not stuck to the PC like glue the entire game, I imagine when you stop for these conversations your party isn't hanging on your every word.

I discovered that roleplaying someone who Just Doesn't Want to Talk About It, OK? is the best way to go here. I can't imagine unloading that sort of tragedy bomb on someone who didn't already know me when it happened for a long, long time. I'm not even bothered by that conversation anymore.

Pictures, people! Who wants a page that's just full of words!

I don't think he would be listening, I mean in any of the conversations, even about other companions noone butts in. I assume  they're meant to take place as if the others are regrouping after a fight, or looting things, whatever.

[Addai]

cmessaz wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

The only time I had the apology option come up was after "why did you keep your birthright a secret" and choosing "I did like you, now I don't know who you are" or something like that.

I might have to do this.  New dialogue options, yay!  As hard as it is to provoke Alistair sadface, if you have a PC where it works it makes things more interesting sometimes.  Same with Zevran.

Oh god I dumped Zev with my mage, and it was so very sad. I NEVER want to do it again.

Ohh, not dumping, I just meant that sometimes if you don't pick the options that you think will give max approval, that you get a more interesting picture of the character and a better story in the end.  I mean, a lot of people didn't know about the swooping kiss because they had never told Alistair he was moving too fast.  And I didn't know about the "I don't intend to let you get away" option by waiting to talk about the future of the relationship until after the Landsmeet.  Just think what we were all missing. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
I illustrated upthread how she refuses to remain and fight for her nation if she doesn't get her way.  She would rather go off and sulk in the Tower than do this, in fact.  Or else she tries to publicly undermine the new ruler in a fit of pique rather than sucking it up and bending the knee, serving as example by doing so.

She is not a warrior, you expect her to go to battle?
She initially refused to give up the throne, partially because she thought she would be executed, so she didn't know she would be spared.

And like I said, it's not devoid of self interest. But she does not betray her nation in the process and she believes that she is a better ruler than Alistair (and I agree with her). Alsitair on the otherhand is not only a warrior, but is also a Grey Warden.
He abandonned his nation. Anora refused to give up her power. Two different things.
And had Alistair's betrayal caused the devastation of Ferelden, because he wasn't there to take the final blow (a very high possibility), then the results of his actions would have been just as worse. And the fact it didnt' happen is outside Alistair's control.

And yes, Anora siding against the Warden is a big mistake. But it's not purely selfish with no considerations for Ferelden. Had she known that only Wardens can defeat the Blight, and she did the same thing, then you would have been right.

[ejoslin]

Edit: Not sure why I posted this here.  I'm moving along now!

Modifié par ejoslin, 26 mai 2010 - 07:44 .

[Serissia]

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: Not sure why I posted this here.  I'm moving along now!

It must be your secret love of Alistair!  Come to the darkside Ejo.

[LadyDamodred]

SurelyForth wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
That explantion doesn't work nearly so well if you talk to Jory out in the Wilds and tell him who you are.  What, was Alistair just not listening?  *grumbles*

Why would he be? He's not stuck to the PC like glue the entire game, I imagine when you stop for these conversations your party isn't hanging on your every word.

I discovered that roleplaying someone who Just Doesn't Want to Talk About It, OK? is the best way to go here. I can't imagine unloading that sort of tragedy bomb on someone who didn't already know me when it happened for a long, long time. I'm not even bothered by that conversation anymore.

Pictures, people! Who wants a page that's just full of words!

I just see it as when you're traveling in a group, it's kind of hard not to overhear things.  Hmmm.  Maybe I'll just not talk to Jory and Daveth in my story.  That would alleviate that problem.

[cmessaz]

Serissia wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: Not sure why I posted this here.  I'm moving along now!

It must be your secret love of Alistair!  Come to the darkside Ejo.

Ha! You know you want to......

[Lady Jess]

cmessaz wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

The only time I had the apology option come up was after "why did you keep your birthright a secret" and choosing "I did like you, now I don't know who you are" or something like that.

I might have to do this.  New dialogue options, yay!  As hard as it is to provoke Alistair sadface, if you have a PC where it works it makes things more interesting sometimes.  Same with Zevran.

Oh god I dumped Zev with my mage, and it was so very sad. I NEVER want to do it again.

Starting to see the romantic appeal are we?<3

[mellifera]

Damn, I knew I shouldn't have made this character in the CC. I can't stand playing a blue eyed character for some reason. Derp.

[Lady Jess]

cmessaz wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

And again just for the record, after telling him about the murder of your family, the VO notes for his response say something about him being "mortified"

Gaider has confirmed that he didn't know explicitly that it was your family who was murdered - more like camp rumors "Oh yeah, she's from Highever" "Hey, did you hear all the Couslands were murdered" and he never had the time to put two and two together to realize that you were a Cousland and that it was YOUR family who was all killed.

He sounds very sincerely remorseful when you tell him, and says that it was stupid of him not to remember and to go on like that about it.  It's quite sad.

That doesn't work so well to me when you talk about your family being slain at Flemeth's hut, and you want to go look for your brother. He doesn't seem surpised at all when you talk about it then. But I think this is just poor writing.

Actually you say "I just lost my whole family" which could be taken as, being a Warden, you had to leave them all behind rather than them being killed.

[ejoslin]

Serissia wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: Not sure why I posted this here.  I'm moving along now!

It must be your secret love of Alistair!  Come to the darkside Ejo.

Actually, it was a comment about a breakup with Zevran after he falls in love.  It's brutal.  If he leaves, he calls the warden "My Love," just before he goes, and he's so sweet and so sad.  Ugh, no, I can deal with Alistair breakups.  The Zevran ones, especially after he falls in love, no.

*grin* I do romance Alistair on occasion!  It's a beautiful romance as well.  I just prefer the whole, "You and me and the rest of the world be damned" ending of the Zevran one!

Edit: I would have written all of that, but it would be horribly off topic here 

Modifié par ejoslin, 26 mai 2010 - 07:58 .

[Lady Jess]

ejoslin wrote...

Serissia wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: Not sure why I posted this here.  I'm moving along now!

It must be your secret love of Alistair!  Come to the darkside Ejo.

Actually, it was a comment about a breakup with Zevran after he falls in love.  It's brutal.  If he leaves, he calls the warden "My Love," just before he goes, and he's so sweet and so sad.  Ugh, no, I can deal with Alistair breakups.  The Zevran ones, especially after he falls in love, no.

*grin* I do romance Alistair on occasion!  It's a beautiful romance as well.  I just prefer the whole, "You and me and the rest of the world be damned" ending of the Zevran one!

Edit: I would have written all of that, but it would be horribly off topic here 

Pshhh I spammed Zev pics myself, I haven't been flogged...yet.

[cmessaz]

Soooo, where is the CE's daddy when Vaughn takes her? I don't see him at all.

[LadyDamodred]

We like to go off topic. *points to the last 4 or 5 pages* By all means, continue.

[cmessaz]

Lady Jess wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

The only time I had the apology option come up was after "why did you keep your birthright a secret" and choosing "I did like you, now I don't know who you are" or something like that.

I might have to do this.  New dialogue options, yay!  As hard as it is to provoke Alistair sadface, if you have a PC where it works it makes things more interesting sometimes.  Same with Zevran.

Oh god I dumped Zev with my mage, and it was so very sad. I NEVER want to do it again.

Starting to see the romantic appeal are we?<3

No thats why I dumped him lol. It just doesn't appeal to me like Alistair's. It does have a better ending though.

[errant_knight]

Addai67 wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

The only time I had the apology option come up was after "why did you keep your birthright a secret" and choosing "I did like you, now I don't know who you are" or something like that.

I might have to do this.  New dialogue options, yay!  As hard as it is to provoke Alistair sadface, if you have a PC where it works it makes things more interesting sometimes.  Same with Zevran.

Since I discovered the "I do like you, and not for your blood' option in this conversation, that's always the one I go for. To me, it's the most natural an satisfying of the romance starter lines--with 'did anyone ever tell you how handsome you are' being the least so.

Modifié par errant_knight, 26 mai 2010 - 08:07 .

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
I illustrated upthread how she refuses to remain and fight for her nation if she doesn't get her way.  She would rather go off and sulk in the Tower than do this, in fact.  Or else she tries to publicly undermine the new ruler in a fit of pique rather than sucking it up and bending the knee, serving as example by doing so.

She is not a warrior, you expect her to go to battle?
She initially refused to give up the throne, partially because she thought she would be executed, so she didn't know she would be spared.

Well, you do bring up another of her inherent weaknesses as a ruler (lack of military prowess is how Loghain was able to steamroll her), but in her case, bowing to the new ruler who will have to lead the armies, or going along with her agreement to unite the Theirins and Mac Tirs for the good of the country, are the ways in which she can best serve the nation at that point.  It would signal Loghain's forces that they need to unite.  As it is, she basically tries to perpetuate the civil war.  Alistair is supposed to suck it up and stay on regardless of what happens, but Anora's hissy fits are no less selfish and potentially more threatening to Ferelden.

He abandonned his nation. Anora refused to give up her power. Two different things.

At that point she has no power, and she should realize it.  The only reason for her to try to undermine the new ruler at that point is selfish pique or self-preservation.  And I do grant you that she thinks she'll be executed.  Though when Eamon offers her a chance to swear fealty, that is more mercy than she and Loghain offer if the tables are turned.

And yes, Anora siding against the Warden is a big mistake. But it's not purely selfish with no considerations for Ferelden. Had she known that only Wardens can defeat the Blight, and she did the same thing, then you would have been right.

I'll point out that you're speculating that she doesn't actually know and is lying about that fact.

Modifié par Addai67, 26 mai 2010 - 08:19 .

[Zeleen]

errant_knight wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

The only time I had the apology option come up was after "why did you keep your birthright a secret" and choosing "I did like you, now I don't know who you are" or something like that.

I might have to do this.  New dialogue options, yay!  As hard as it is to provoke Alistair sadface, if you have a PC where it works it makes things more interesting sometimes.  Same with Zevran.

Since I discovered the "I do like you, and not for your blood' option in this conversation, that's always the one I go for. To me, it's the most natural an satisfying of the romance starter lines--with 'did anyone ever tell you how handsome you are' being the least so.

I haven't seen that option..
just checking in before back to work...
I've decided... going to do a Sir Gilmore play through...

oops top of page and I'm at work so no pic,,    anyone?? you have my permission to post ali here.

Modifié par Zeleen, 26 mai 2010 - 08:21 .