60083 réponses à ce sujet

[sylvanaerie]

*sigh* we are in the dreaded EST dead zone now...

[nos_astra]

Maria13 wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Well, it is implied that (hardened) Alistair might do the same with her once the Blight is ended. I wouldn't judge this too bad, one word and she relents. She's a politician, Alistair is a threat. People are killed for things like thievery or desertion in Ferelden. It's still in line with the world, thats why I don't get all the fuss about killing Loghain, it's definitely nothing extraordinary to kill a general for his failure. You don't have the authority, so it's morally questionable, but even if you chose Anora to be queen, she will let it go unpunished (probably because she needs you to stop the Blight).

I appreciate the general idea, even though I think the Landsmeet is terrible storytelling the way it is done.

Edit: I don't mean to change your mind. I'd have probably said the same thing some months ago but trying to write a story that is based on this ending (and reading every story available about it) has given me a lot to think.
Oh yes, and you can absolutely love to hate her. I'm this way with Loghain. I love to hate him. Arrogant ass!

LOL this game sure does suck you into its world doesn't it ?  I know it has a lot of historical precedent.  Kings and Queens executed their political enemies (sometimes siblings) all the time so this is sometimes how the world worked back then.  Probably in some places it still does.

Elizabeth I finally (after about 15 years) signing the death warrent
for her cousin Mary Queen of Scots but putting it on the floor so she
can blame the adviser who picks it up for enforcing it...

It's terrible. It really is. But it makes for good storytelling.
The world is unfair, people can do terrible things, even normal people are often selfish and cruel. I love to explore this.

Modifié par klarabella, 30 mai 2010 - 12:26 .

[Tirigon]

klarabella wrote...

It's terrible. It really is. But it makes for good storytelling.
The world is unfair, people can do terrible things, even normal people are often selfish and cruel. I love to explore this.

What is terrible in DAO is that you can´t kill Anora for her being a ruthless b*tch.

I mean, if you could REALLY choose whatever you want I would simply execute her too, and every noble who disagrees.

It even has a precedent: Maric killed his mother´s murderers in a Chantry though it was holy and neutral ground, and later killed their entire families too, when they refused to surrender.

[nos_astra]

Tirigon wrote...
What is terrible in DAO is that you can´t kill Anora for her being a ruthless b*tch.

I mean, if you could REALLY choose whatever you want I would simply execute her too, and every noble who disagrees.

It even has a precedent: Maric killed his mother´s murderers in a Chantry though it was holy and neutral ground, and later killed their entire families too, when they refused to surrender.

That's why there is fanfiction, so you can remedy the things that make no sense. I highly approve or re-telling your Origin if you don't stick do the restrictions the game establishes. I also approve of sequels that take their freedoms when referring to Origins.

[sylvanaerie]

lol dark fics depress the helloutta me. I end up going the hopeful routes on the things I write. yes, there is trouble and angst but in the end it all works out for everyone.

[Maria13]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Well, it is implied that (hardened) Alistair might do the same with her once the Blight is ended. I wouldn't judge this too bad, one word and she relents. She's a politician, Alistair is a threat. People are killed for things like thievery or desertion in Ferelden. It's still in line with the world, thats why I don't get all the fuss about killing Loghain, it's definitely nothing extraordinary to kill a general for his failure. You don't have the authority, so it's morally questionable, but even if you chose Anora to be queen, she will let it go unpunished (probably because she needs you to stop the Blight).

I appreciate the general idea, even though I think the Landsmeet is terrible storytelling the way it is done.

Edit: I don't mean to change your mind. I'd have probably said the same thing some months ago but trying to write a story that is based on this ending (and reading every story available about it) has given me a lot to think.
Oh yes, and you can absolutely love to hate her. I'm this way with Loghain. I love to hate him. Arrogant ass!

LOL this game sure does suck you into its world doesn't it ?  I know it has a lot of historical precedent.  Kings and Queens executed their political enemies (sometimes siblings) all the time so this is sometimes how the world worked back then.  Probably in some places it still does.

Elizabeth I finally (after about 15 years) signing the death warrent
for her cousin Mary Queen of Scots but putting it on the floor so she
can blame the adviser who picks it up for enforcing it...

yea, Elizabeth is who I think of first when dealing with Anora.  Queens and Kings had to do some seriously questionable things to protect their throne and I sure as hell don't envy them.  And she was a strong woman (just as Anora is) far ahead of her time.
hehe Top of page.  Alistair never fails to make me giggle even when I have heard the lines 30 times already.  Between D Gaider and Steve Valentine, they created a winner in him.

Re Alistair, yes they did and let's hope it's not a one-off.

And Mary herself was really no better than Elizabeth, married 5 times or something?  And she married a guy who'd offed her previous...  What a pair.

[Maria13]

sylvanaerie wrote...

lol dark fics depress the helloutta me. I end up going the hopeful routes on the things I write. yes, there is trouble and angst but in the end it all works out for everyone.

Yes, but it can be funny when looked at in a certain way:

“My father had one elven lover who he slew apparently to impress his bestest friend Logain, I really am sorta even gladder I chopped off Logain's head of at the landsmeet, now.  Then he conceived me with another elf but did not consider making an honourable woman out of her or recognising me despite already being a widower at that point… My brother married Logain’s daughter but it seems he also carried on a bit on the side.  Maker knows what will come out if I were to look into that.  And, oh yeah, finally me, I married Logain’s daughter, the same one that was married to my brother, after chopping off his head (Logain's I mean) but carried on with an elf whom I haven’t married … The Theirin male line… What a bunch of sad, sad tarts we all are...”

Modifié par Maria13, 30 mai 2010 - 01:14 .

[nos_astra]

*giggles*

I like the way you think, Maria. ^^

[Herr Uhl]

Maria13 wrote...

Yes, but it can be funny when looked at in a certain way:

“My father had one elven lover who he slew apparently to impress his bestest friend Logain, I really am sorta even gladder I chopped off Logain's head of at the landsmeet, now.  Then he conceived me with another elf but did not consider making an honourable woman out of her or recognising me despite already being a widower at that point… My brother married Logain’s daughter but it seems he also carried on a bit on the side.  Maker knows what will come out if I were to look into that.  And, oh yeah, finally me, I married Logain’s daughter, the same one that was married to my brother, after chopping off his head (Logain's I mean) but carried on with an elf whom I haven’t married … The Theirin male line… What a bunch of sad, sad tarts we all are...”

Yes, man****s the lot of 'em.

[sylvanaerie]

Maria13 wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

lol dark fics depress the helloutta me. I end up going the hopeful routes on the things I write. yes, there is trouble and angst but in the end it all works out for everyone.

Yes, but it can be funny when looked at in a certain way:

“My father had one elven lover who he slew apparently to impress his bestest friend Logain, I really am sorta even gladder I chopped off Logain's head of at the landsmeet, now.  Then he conceived me with another elf but did not consider making an honourable woman out of her or recognising me despite already being a widower at that point… My brother married Logain’s daughter but it seems he also carried on a bit on the side.  Maker knows what will come out if I were to look into that.  And, oh yeah, finally me, I married Logain’s daughter, the same one that was married to my brother, after chopping off his head (Logain's I mean) but carried on with an elf whom I haven’t married … The Theirin male line… What a bunch of sad, sad tarts we all are...”

LOL thats black humor NOT dark fiction.  I love that.  One of my favorite scenes in a dark humor movie, the old man wants a real viking funeral, boat and all.  When his family sets him on the lake and the (i think its his nephew) fires the arrow, it hits the gas tank on the motor and blows the sucker sky high.  Or the fiasco with the body of the old man in Mouse Trap.  That makes me giggle.
I'm talking 30 chapters and 100,000 plus words of "death, dark and hopeless sucking black hole of emptiness" type fics.  Only so much emo crap I can stomach.

[nos_astra]

sylvanaerie wrote...
I'm talking 30 chapters and 100,000 plus words of "death, dark and hopeless sucking black hole of emptiness" type fics.  Only so much emo crap I can stomach.

That depends on how good the writer is. Dark fiction doesn't need to be an angst fest, it's perfectly fine to remember that people do ugly things and that the consequences aren't bound to make everyone happy. DAO is a rather barbarian, medieval-ish world and people don't smell of roses or mint leaves.

[soignee]

klarabella wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...
I'm talking 30 chapters and 100,000 plus words of "death, dark and hopeless sucking black hole of emptiness" type fics.  Only so much emo crap I can stomach.

That depends on how good the writer is. Dark fiction doesn't need to be an angst fest, it's perfectly fine to remember that people do ugly things and that the consequences aren't bound to make everyone happy. DAO is a rather barbarian, medieval-ish world and people don't smell of roses or mint leaves.

idk, my fic's pretty dark. I balance it out with lulzy banter and smut though, so...

[Merilsell]

Sarah1281 wrote...
We need all the fluff we can get amidst all the angsty 'I didn't declare myself Queen so Alistair dumped me' and 'I'm not a HN and even though I might be (though not guarenteed) mistress Alistair is going to get married!' stories. They just get depressing after awhile...

Haha, exactly. It not only gets depressing after a while it also gets boring. In many, many playthrough-ficlet's I glimpsed for example, Alistair becomes king and the PC got dumped when not HNF after Landsmeet. If she was a HNF then of course they'd marry. Yeah, thrilling.

Fluff is also a necessary good in between, actually. Especially when you are writing angsty pieces. I do this from time to time, just for fun. It's not that I have to publish aaaaall the stuff I'm writing, and it helps me that I can focus myself on my main story again.

[Maria13]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

lol dark fics depress the helloutta me. I end up going the hopeful routes on the things I write. yes, there is trouble and angst but in the end it all works out for everyone.

Yes, but it can be funny when looked at in a certain way:

“My father had one elven lover who he slew apparently to impress his bestest friend Logain, I really am sorta even gladder I chopped off Logain's head of at the landsmeet, now.  Then he conceived me with another elf but did not consider making an honourable woman out of her or recognising me despite already being a widower at that point… My brother married Logain’s daughter but it seems he also carried on a bit on the side.  Maker knows what will come out if I were to look into that.  And, oh yeah, finally me, I married Logain’s daughter, the same one that was married to my brother, after chopping off his head (Logain's I mean) but carried on with an elf whom I haven’t married … The Theirin male line… What a bunch of sad, sad tarts we all are...”

LOL thats black humor NOT dark fiction.  I love that.  One of my favorite scenes in a dark humor movie, the old man wants a real viking funeral, boat and all.  When his family sets him on the lake and the (i think its his nephew) fires the arrow, it hits the gas tank on the motor and blows the sucker sky high.  Or the fiasco with the body of the old man in Mouse Trap.  That makes me giggle.
I'm talking 30 chapters and 100,000 plus words of "death, dark and hopeless sucking black hole of emptiness" type fics.  Only so much emo crap I can stomach.

You know, my initial aim was to write just angsty stuff, but, I'm on chapter 11 now and every now and the then the funny stuff, like the above, keeps coming through so I let it. I think its for the better. 

Modifié par Maria13, 30 mai 2010 - 02:08 .

[sylvanaerie]

My current fic is a little too angsty for me and I am taking a break from writing to play again (esp since I blew up all my games the other night) and drawing some. Even then my angst is pretty watered down.

[LadyDamodred]

cmessaz wrote...

Ooooh, I get it Lady D, so if I save the mage's tower for last and defy the templars, she is starting to take control of her life and is seeing them for what they really are, but instead of this being a good thing it is the opposite. See?! I told you I suck at writing. Do you get what I mean?

I just got up, hun, and I know this is a bit late, but yes, I get what you mean.  And that is exactly what I mean.

[sylvanaerie]

*Facepalm* My current PC would appear to be a man'ho. I just triggered boht Morrigan AND Leliana's romances. I was just going for Leli's...but I hear the catfighting banter is pretty funny. I may go with this for a bit

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Ooooh, I get it Lady D, so if I save the mage's tower for last and defy the templars, she is starting to take control of her life and is seeing them for what they really are, but instead of this being a good thing it is the opposite. See?! I told you I suck at writing. Do you get what I mean?

You mean that she finally saw the opportunity to defy those who watched over her for years, the people she feared the most, and in that instance she saw them as being more afraid than she was and thus decided to bring closure to her past life as a scared oppressed mage by standing up to her fears against both templars and demons, simultaniously realising that the Templars are not that bad and are just as much of a victim as she is?

Not quite, KoP.  This character practically worships the templars, and is thus subject to far more abuse at the tower.  She just doesn't realize it's abuse until she's been out for awhile and seen how people are actually supposed to treat her.  Part of siding against the templars is her reclaming herself, but like everything in her life, it ends up going horribly wrong later on.

[Finiffa]

klarabella wrote...
Yes, I use a little program called face replacer to extract the mor-files, then edit them as much as I can. That's why it's reduced to things like hair style, colors and textures, the facial structure is too cryptic to change. Sometimes I experiment a little and copy the data from other characters and then load them in-game but the results aren't very satisfying. Then I can link the edited morph to a savegame or use face replacer to put the data back into the savegame.

That's not as good as changing a character you built with the toolset because you'd need an mrh-file to do that but the changes are good enough for tweaking older characters that you are fed up with.

Toolset noob question: how can you SEE a .mor face in the toolset?? Or do you just edit the data from the morph?

[Tirigon]

Maria13 wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

lol dark fics depress the helloutta me. I end up going the hopeful routes on the things I write. yes, there is trouble and angst but in the end it all works out for everyone.

Yes, but it can be funny when looked at in a certain way:

“My father had one elven lover who he slew apparently to impress his bestest friend Logain, I really am sorta even gladder I chopped off Logain's head of at the landsmeet, now.  Then he conceived me with another elf but did not consider making an honourable woman out of her or recognising me despite already being a widower at that point… My brother married Logain’s daughter but it seems he also carried on a bit on the side.  Maker knows what will come out if I were to look into that.  And, oh yeah, finally me, I married Logain’s daughter, the same one that was married to my brother, after chopping off his head (Logain's I mean) but carried on with an elf whom I haven’t married … The Theirin male line… What a bunch of sad, sad tarts we all are...”

So true, so true.

Though i´m not sure if Alistair and Cailan are really brothers, I still suspect Loghain of being Cailans TRUE fatherB)  

After all, he did quite like the Queen in his time......

[Serissia]

*sigh* One headache after another. Are my armors not loading on new characters for anyone?

[LadyDamodred]

Tirigon wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

lol dark fics depress the helloutta me. I end up going the hopeful routes on the things I write. yes, there is trouble and angst but in the end it all works out for everyone.

Yes, but it can be funny when looked at in a certain way:

“My father had one elven lover who he slew apparently to impress his bestest friend Logain, I really am sorta even gladder I chopped off Logain's head of at the landsmeet, now.  Then he conceived me with another elf but did not consider making an honourable woman out of her or recognising me despite already being a widower at that point… My brother married Logain’s daughter but it seems he also carried on a bit on the side.  Maker knows what will come out if I were to look into that.  And, oh yeah, finally me, I married Logain’s daughter, the same one that was married to my brother, after chopping off his head (Logain's I mean) but carried on with an elf whom I haven’t married … The Theirin male line… What a bunch of sad, sad tarts we all are...”

So true, so true.

Though i´m not sure if Alistair and Cailan are really brothers, I still suspect Loghain of being Cailans TRUE fatherB)  

After all, he did quite like the Queen in his time......

Well, Alistair and Cailan do look alike.  And whatever faults Loghain had, I cannot see him and Rowan cheating on their spouses to carry on an illicit love affair.  They had something, but they ended it.

[sylvanaerie]

Serissia wrote...

*sigh* One headache after another. Are my armors not loading on new characters for anyone?

Leliana is curretnly wearing the WCLA in my game and it was on Alistair for a while.  I also use the HDA on my new mage.  I don't have the female only one though (the scale mail)

[nos_astra]

Finiffa wrote...

klarabella wrote...
Yes, I use a little program called face replacer to extract the mor-files, then edit them as much as I can. That's why it's reduced to things like hair style, colors and textures, the facial structure is too cryptic to change. Sometimes I experiment a little and copy the data from other characters and then load them in-game but the results aren't very satisfying. Then I can link the edited morph to a savegame or use face replacer to put the data back into the savegame.

That's not as good as changing a character you built with the toolset because you'd need an mrh-file to do that but the changes are good enough for tweaking older characters that you are fed up with.

Toolset noob question: how can you SEE a .mor face in the toolset?? Or do you just edit the data from the morph?

You can only edit the data. It's fine when you liked the face but want to make minor changes. If you want to change more than colors and textures you have to start from the scratch and export the morph. You can still link it to the savegame but your character will probably look nothing like before.

[Maria13]

Tirigon wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

lol dark fics depress the helloutta me. I end up going the hopeful routes on the things I write. yes, there is trouble and angst but in the end it all works out for everyone.

Yes, but it can be funny when looked at in a certain way:

“My father had one elven lover who he slew apparently to impress his bestest friend Logain, I really am sorta even gladder I chopped off Logain's head of at the landsmeet, now.  Then he conceived me with another elf but did not consider making an honourable woman out of her or recognising me despite already being a widower at that point… My brother married Logain’s daughter but it seems he also carried on a bit on the side.  Maker knows what will come out if I were to look into that.  And, oh yeah, finally me, I married Logain’s daughter, the same one that was married to my brother, after chopping off his head (Logain's I mean) but carried on with an elf whom I haven’t married … The Theirin male line… What a bunch of sad, sad tarts we all are...”

So true, so true.

Though i´m not sure if Alistair and Cailan are really brothers, I still suspect Loghain of being Cailans TRUE fatherB)  

After all, he did quite like the Queen in his time......

Anything is possible... Oh, yes, it could get even more complicated...  But that's what makes FF soooo much fun and sooooo necessary almost, the amount of possible alternative interpretations....