60083 réponses à ce sujet

[MelRedux]

It has been WAY to long since we had this:



Or this:

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...
Marriage often takes place in a church but it's a government institution. I have yet to meet anyone who can tell me a non-religious reasn they are against gay marriage. America is supposed to have a seperation of church and state so why should one person's reigious beliefs stop another from getting married?

It's become such, but it shouldn't be.  I'm a bit of a libertarian, as I said, but when we signed our marriage license, I almost wish we hadn't.  I felt it cheapened it somehow.  I don't need a silly county clerk to tell us what our relationship means.  It's just funny that others are so into the idea as if it does mean something.  I guess it is a way to force societal approbation, but that kind of thing never works.  People will believe what they will and they should be allowed to.  All this acrimony seems very pointless.

[LadyDamodred]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Okay, I'm not trying to start a Loghain debate but it's always bothered me how Alistair decides he's evil at Flemeth's hut when all he knows is that Loghain didn't charge. He doesn't know Loghain retreated or were attacked by darkspawn, he doesn't know if the beacon could have been lit in time, he certainly doesn't know that Loghain left the minute he saw the beacon.

Do you guys think it's OOC for the PC to point this out and suggest Alistair wait to get more information before demonizing Loghain, Alistair agrees to do so, and then when he arrives in Lothering and finds out about the bounty on GW, the men Logain left to attack the GWs, that Loghain blames the GW for being traitors and killing the King then he hates him? It's not like Alistair doesn't have good reason to hate Logain, I just don't think he has enough at Flemeth's hut.

Part of the problem is how Flemeth presents the information to him, I think.  Saying he "quit the field" casts the events in a certain light.  And even if Alistair doesn't trust Flemeth and Morrigan, it's very hard to undo first impressions of things like that.

I wouldn't say it's OOC to talk him down a little.  Pull him off to the side after they leave and say they need to find out more.  Alistair will probably be sort of resistant, but you can allude to the fact that the beacon being late might have had something to do with it.  Gotta be careful with that though, since you don't want him directly blaming himself for Duncan's death.

[sylvanaerie]

Mel_Redux wrote...

It has been WAY to long since we had this:

Or this:

awww I love the expression in the bottom pic!  he's so endearing!

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

You don't have to get married in a church or have any sort of religion involved and that is still recognized as a legal marriage. If you are religious you can get religion involved but it is not mandatory. If you want to have a completely secular marriage and that's fine for heterosexual couples then why should religious rules interfere with a completely secular homosexual couple? 

That I get. If there isn't a way for the gay couples to get the same legal rights as a straight couple that is something for politicians meddle in.

Edit: I'm probably confused due to the last debate here was whether individual priests should have the right not to marry gay couples if they didn't wish to.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 30 mai 2010 - 09:48 .

[sylvanaerie]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Okay, I'm not trying to start a Loghain debate but it's always bothered me how Alistair decides he's evil at Flemeth's hut when all he knows is that Loghain didn't charge. He doesn't know Loghain retreated or were attacked by darkspawn, he doesn't know if the beacon could have been lit in time, he certainly doesn't know that Loghain left the minute he saw the beacon.

Do you guys think it's OOC for the PC to point this out and suggest Alistair wait to get more information before demonizing Loghain, Alistair agrees to do so, and then when he arrives in Lothering and finds out about the bounty on GW, the men Logain left to attack the GWs, that Loghain blames the GW for being traitors and killing the King then he hates him? It's not like Alistair doesn't have good reason to hate Logain, I just don't think he has enough at Flemeth's hut.

Part of the problem is how Flemeth presents the information to him, I think.  Saying he "quit the field" casts the events in a certain light.  And even if Alistair doesn't trust Flemeth and Morrigan, it's very hard to undo first impressions of things like that.

I wouldn't say it's OOC to talk him down a little.  Pull him off to the side after they leave and say they need to find out more.  Alistair will probably be sort of resistant, but you can allude to the fact that the beacon being late might have had something to do with it.  Gotta be careful with that though, since you don't want him directly blaming himself for Duncan's death.

he's already suffering from survivor's guilt (if the convo with the Guardian is any indication).

[MelRedux]

And this one is just for you Syl!!

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I was asking if Alistair would be out of character. And Flemeth and Morrigan are two apostate witches who only say 'Teyrn Loghain didn't charge' and something about much darkness in the hearts of men.

I don't think that he wouldn't listen then.

Edit: He is way to emotional about it at that point, and you barely know each other.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 30 mai 2010 - 09:34 .

[sylvanaerie]

Squee!! TEAGAN!!! *Hugs*

[LadyDamodred]

Miri1984 wrote...

The separation of Church and State is the best thing about American politics - but it's astonishing to me to see how hard some politicians try to get around it.

Gay marriage isn't allowed in Australia either which is ridiculous IMO. Who does it hurt? No one at all! So why prevent it? Makes my mind boggle.

You have no idea how infuriating it is as a history major to try and explain to people that, yes, the Founding Fathers knew damn well what they were doing.  No, the country is not based on the 10 Commandments.  No, they weren't hard core christians, they were deists for the most part.  Etc...

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 30 mai 2010 - 09:34 .

[LadyDamodred]

sylvanaerie wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Okay, I'm not trying to start a Loghain debate but it's always bothered me how Alistair decides he's evil at Flemeth's hut when all he knows is that Loghain didn't charge. He doesn't know Loghain retreated or were attacked by darkspawn, he doesn't know if the beacon could have been lit in time, he certainly doesn't know that Loghain left the minute he saw the beacon.

Do you guys think it's OOC for the PC to point this out and suggest Alistair wait to get more information before demonizing Loghain, Alistair agrees to do so, and then when he arrives in Lothering and finds out about the bounty on GW, the men Logain left to attack the GWs, that Loghain blames the GW for being traitors and killing the King then he hates him? It's not like Alistair doesn't have good reason to hate Logain, I just don't think he has enough at Flemeth's hut.

Part of the problem is how Flemeth presents the information to him, I think.  Saying he "quit the field" casts the events in a certain light.  And even if Alistair doesn't trust Flemeth and Morrigan, it's very hard to undo first impressions of things like that.

I wouldn't say it's OOC to talk him down a little.  Pull him off to the side after they leave and say they need to find out more.  Alistair will probably be sort of resistant, but you can allude to the fact that the beacon being late might have had something to do with it.  Gotta be careful with that though, since you don't want him directly blaming himself for Duncan's death.

he's already suffering from survivor's guilt (if the convo with the Guardian is any indication).

Yes, which is why you have to be careful.  You don't want him to think he is responsible for the death of the closest thing he's ever had to a father.

[Addai]

LadyDamodred wrote...

I wouldn't say it's OOC to talk him down a little.  Pull him off to the side after they leave and say they need to find out more.  Alistair will probably be sort of resistant, but you can allude to the fact that the beacon being late might have had something to do with it.  Gotta be careful with that though, since you don't want him directly blaming himself for Duncan's death.

I just think the fact that Loghain didn't fight at all is all he needs to hear to decide that he's a coward and probably a traitor.  When you hear that he's declared himself regent and outlawed the GWs, that seals it.  It is obvious enough that whatever the circumstances, he left the fight and is trying to use the chaos to cement his own power.

[MelRedux]

On th topic of gay marriage: I agree 100% that there is no reason that homosexuals should not have the same rights as heteros. My uncle-in-law and his boyfriend have 4 beautiful children, a 4 year old and 1 year old triplets (yikes!). They are a very loving family. But they will never be married. It makes me sad, that these kids will never have a "legal" family.

[LadyDamodred]

Mel_Redux wrote...

On th topic of gay marriage: I agree 100% that there is no reason that homosexuals should not have the same rights as heteros. My uncle-in-law and his boyfriend have 4 beautiful children, a 4 year old and 1 year old triplets (yikes!). They are a very loving family. But they will never be married. It makes me sad, that these kids will never have a "legal" family.

I don't know where they live, but they can always move to Massachusetts.    There are still challenges to it here, but every year that passes with it in place only weakens the side opposed.  There are a few other states that allow it, but I'll pimp my home turf b/c we did it first.

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
Marriage often takes place in a church but it's a government institution. I have yet to meet anyone who can tell me a non-religious reasn they are against gay marriage. America is supposed to have a seperation of church and state so why should one person's reigious beliefs stop another from getting married?

It's become such, but it shouldn't be.  I'm a bit of a libertarian, as I said, but when we signed our marriage license, I almost wish we hadn't.  I felt it cheapened it somehow.  I don't need a silly county clerk to tell us what our relationship means.  It's just funny that others are so into the idea as if it does mean something.  I guess it is a way to force societal approbation, but that kind of thing never works.  People will believe what they will and they should be allowed to.  All this acrimony seems very pointless.

Marriage...  I've been married over 18 years, and I'm glad of it. Neither of us are religious, and truly, religion doesn't enter into it.  Did we NEED the license?  No, not really.  But we wanted to have our relationship recognized legally.

The fact that gay marriage isn't recognized by the government is a travesty.  I do not get it at all.  Two people live together, love each other, have sex or not as they see fit, build a life together -- yet they cannot have the relationship recognized legally?  It's beyond stupid.

My city actually does recognize civil unions.  Our major employer extends benefits to same-sex domestic partners as they call them.  It's a start, but it is not enough.

It makes me furious that religious organizations fight about this.  Believe me, NO church would have married my husband and me and they would have been well within their rights.  Churches saying they'll have to perform these marriages or risk being sued are building a huge strawman to tear down.  It's a non-issue.  Churches refuse to marry couples all the time who don't follow their tenants.

We were married by the local Unitarian minister.  Had he refused, we would have been married by a judge.  It wasn't who performed the ceremony that was important.  It was that the ceremony was done.

Edit: Oh, to be on topic, yeh, Zevran and a male warden can also end up engaged.  I don't think they could have a Chantry wedding, however.  Perhaps in Antiva.

Well, not exactly on topic, but Alistair is straight!

Modifié par ejoslin, 30 mai 2010 - 09:45 .

[Lady Jess]

Ok, I'm struggling to see the point of Arcane Warrior as a spec. And I can't find any good mods for blood mage robes (improves blood magic). Blargh.

[Sarah1281]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

I was asking if Alistair would be out of character. And Flemeth and Morrigan are two apostate witches who only say 'Teyrn Loghain didn't charge' and something about much darkness in the hearts of men.

I don't think that he wouldn't listen then.

Edit: He is way to emotional about it at that point, and you barely know each other.

All I'm thinking is he agrees you have a point and will try to wait for more information and then the minute Ser Bryant says 'the GW are outlawed' he jumps on that because he's not doing a very good job of staying objective.

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

Marriage...  I've been married over 18 years, and I'm glad of it. Neither of us are religious, and truly, religion doesn't enter into it.  Did we NEED the license?  No, not really.  But we wanted to have our relationship recognized legally.

Why?  I don't understand that.  I want nothing from the state.  "Recognition" is just prelude to tax and control.

Laissez faire and do unto others covers a lot of ills.  The funny thing is that the people who say they just want equal rights are just as keen as everyone else to force their views on other people.  This is not something that can ever be decided in the public sphere in a pluralistic country, and it shouldn't be.  When we had a large social consensus, family law made some sense, but now that our society is fragmented, it will always be ****** for tat jockeying for legal control.  Someone's rights will always be infringed.  The state should just mind its own business completely.

[Tirigon]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Okay, I'm not trying to start a Loghain debate but it's always bothered me how Alistair decides he's evil at Flemeth's hut when all he knows is that Loghain didn't charge. He doesn't know Loghain retreated or were attacked by darkspawn, he doesn't know if the beacon could have been lit in time, he certainly doesn't know that Loghain left the minute he saw the beacon.

I always get the impression Alistair talks as if he has seen the cutscene of what happened when you´re overwhelmed. Somehow it is assumed that not only the player but also the characters know that stuff.

[phaonica]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

I was asking if Alistair would be out of character. And Flemeth and Morrigan are two apostate witches who only say 'Teyrn Loghain didn't charge' and something about much darkness in the hearts of men.

I don't think that he wouldn't listen then.

Edit: He is way to emotional about it at that point, and you barely know each other.

All I'm thinking is he agrees you have a point and will try to wait for more information and then the minute Ser Bryant says 'the GW are outlawed' he jumps on that because he's not doing a very good job of staying objective.

I dont' think it's OOC to be able to talk down Alistair at Flemeth's hut. After all, Flemeth and Morrigan aren't generals, and just because they rescued you doesn't mean they aren't lying to you.

[Addai]

Lady Jess wrote...

Ok, I'm struggling to see the point of Arcane Warrior as a spec. And I can't find any good mods for blood mage robes (improves blood magic). Blargh.

It makes the most sense if you want your character to act as tank.  I just choose it because I hate mage robes and want to wear armor.  I would only switch to melee occasionally, like to finish an enemy off after softening them up with whatever AoE attacks my PC had.

[Tirigon]

Lady Jess wrote...

Ok, I'm struggling to see the point of Arcane Warrior as a spec. And I can't find any good mods for blood mage robes (improves blood magic). Blargh.

http://social.biowar...6/index/2694581

The Arcane Warrior has been discussed a lot.

[cmessaz]

Lady Jess wrote...

Ok, I'm struggling to see the point of Arcane Warrior as a spec. And I can't find any good mods for blood mage robes (improves blood magic). Blargh.

My blood mage kicked serious butt with the blood dragon set. Sure it was a bit bright and colorful but the stats made playing as a blood mage fun.

I totally hate AW. If I wanna be a warrior then I am a warrior, as a mage I wanna be a mage. There are however some decent mods out there for AW.

Modifié par cmessaz, 30 mai 2010 - 10:08 .

[cmessaz]

*backs down from any political debates*

Modifié par cmessaz, 30 mai 2010 - 10:12 .

[Tirigon]

Addai67 wrote...

Why?  I don't understand that.  I want nothing from the state.  "Recognition" is just prelude to tax and control.

Laissez faire and do unto others covers a lot of ills.  The funny thing is that the people who say they just want equal rights are just as keen as everyone else to force their views on other people.  This is not something that can ever be decided in the public sphere in a pluralistic country, and it shouldn't be.  When we had a large social consensus, family law made some sense, but now that our society is fragmented, it will always be ****** for tat jockeying for legal control.  Someone's rights will always be infringed.  The state should just mind its own business completely.

I like your attitude:D

If only more people would think libertarian....




Edit: Damn, top of the page. I understand I´m supposed to find a Alistair-Screenshot now?


Edit 2:


What a romantic place to tell he loves my PC:D

Modifié par Tirigon, 30 mai 2010 - 10:18 .