Aller au contenu

Photo

Alistair, post-coronation... and/or Alistair gush thread (Origins/Awakening Spoilers)


  • Ce sujet est fermé Ce sujet est fermé
60083 réponses à ce sujet

#33876
Tirigon

Tirigon
  • Members
  • 8 573 messages

tmp7704 wrote...

Except neither a mage nor elf really knows much about ruling a country, especially in elf case where that country is largely populated by different race you're likely to be prejudiced against (and vice-versa) It's hardly sign of a good ruler to gloss over their own limitations of such important nature and let their ego decide for them, so imo if such person wants to rule and think they would be the best at it... it's very sign they aren't actually suited for that.

Sure, there's Alistair to back the player up if they're female, but then it's very much a case of a blind leading a blind.


I disagree. The elf / mage brings that viewpoint in. For the human interests we have Alistair or Anora and the Landsmeet. I mean, we´re not talking about the Antivan way of ruling where you assassinate everyone else. You still have the landsmeet as advisors and a sort of "checks and balances".

#33877
Tirigon

Tirigon
  • Members
  • 8 573 messages

sylvanaerie wrote...
(I wonder how many mages are killed before the templars find them?) 


Wynne says that she suspects that for every child that is brought to the circle there is one who is killed before the templars find him.

However, that just proves my point that something needs to change.

It also protects the populace from such sterling examples of mages like Uldred and Avernus.Posted Image


While both of them used horrible methods their goals were noble. And at least in Uldred´s case he wouldn´t be forced to use demons if it wasn´t for the chantry.

#33878
tmp7704

tmp7704
  • Members
  • 11 156 messages

Tirigon wrote...

Changing laws such as this is exactly the reason WHY my mage wants to rule. The chantry suppression of mages has gone too long already. It is time to step into Andraste´s footsteps and raise up to free the land of suppression.

You do remember Andraste was fighting the oppressive empire ruled by the mages, don't you? I don't think invoking her name is the best idea in argument why the mages should be given reign of countries again Posted Image

#33879
LadyDamodred

LadyDamodred
  • Members
  • 5 122 messages
Hrm. My Fergus head preset has disappeared. *wonders if it went missing when she first tried using the chargenmorph compiler*

#33880
Addai

Addai
  • Members
  • 25 850 messages
Can someone explain to me what the hell this is supposed to be?  I had a Noble Clothing in my inventory, so decided to try it on Leliana to see what it looked like.  Now she's a big yellow banana with  "Do Not Use" written on her dress.

There's some kind of joke in there, I'm sure.

Posted Image

Posted Image

#33881
Sarah1281

Sarah1281
  • Members
  • 15 280 messages

Tirigon wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Except neither a mage nor elf really knows much about ruling a country, especially in elf case where that country is largely populated by different race you're likely to be prejudiced against (and vice-versa) It's hardly sign of a good ruler to gloss over their own limitations of such important nature and let their ego decide for them, so imo if such person wants to rule and think they would be the best at it... it's very sign they aren't actually suited for that.

Sure, there's Alistair to back the player up if they're female, but then it's very much a case of a blind leading a blind.


I disagree. The elf / mage brings that viewpoint in. For the human interests we have Alistair or Anora and the Landsmeet. I mean, we´re not talking about the Antivan way of ruling where you assassinate everyone else. You still have the landsmeet as advisors and a sort of "checks and balances".

An elf mage wouldn't have any idea about elf viewpoints as they are a mage first and foremost and have spent their lives locked in a tower since they were a small child. Do you really think they understand elves in general any more than, say, a Cousland would understand the starving refugees in Lothering? 

And what do you know about ruling? You can't have the Landsmeet make all your decisions for you. They are only called on serious occasions where big decisions are made and everyone is out to promote their own self-interests. Frankly, any non-noble PC who tried their hand at ruling would fare worse than Harrowmont.

#33882
Tirigon

Tirigon
  • Members
  • 8 573 messages

tmp7704 wrote...

You do remember Andraste was fighting the oppressive empire ruled by the mages, don't you? I don't think invoking her name is the best idea in argument why the mages should be given reign of countries again Posted Image


I do. However, basically Andraste fought TYRANTS. It just happened to be blood mages at that time. But I´m sure if it had been others who suppress the people she had still fought them. And we shouldn´t forget that Andraste was most probably a mage herself.

#33883
sylvanaerie

sylvanaerie
  • Members
  • 9 436 messages

Tirigon wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

You do remember Andraste was fighting the oppressive empire ruled by the mages, don't you? I don't think invoking her name is the best idea in argument why the mages should be given reign of countries again Posted Image


I do. However, basically Andraste fought TYRANTS. It just happened to be blood mages at that time. But I´m sure if it had been others who suppress the people she had still fought them. And we shouldn´t forget that Andraste was most probably a mage herself.


What you are describing is a tyrant as well.  It would appear you are also arguing just to argue.  I am done with this discussion.  

#33884
Tirigon

Tirigon
  • Members
  • 8 573 messages

Sarah1281 wrote...

Frankly, any non-noble PC who tried their hand at ruling would fare worse than Harrowmont.


The noble isn´t any better, because he / she is way too young to have learned ruling already.

We should also remember that Maric was the best king of Ferelden and he hadn´t learned politics either. Exactly that made him so good.

Alistair is a good ruler, too, and hasn´t learned it.

#33885
Sarah1281

Sarah1281
  • Members
  • 15 280 messages

However, that just proves my point that something needs to change.

Yeah and your little power trip will not accomplish that. People will just think they're right that mages go mad with a little power and crack down on them harder than ever.



While both of them used horrible methods their goals were noble. And at least in Uldred´s case he wouldn´t be forced to use demons if it wasn´t for the chantry.

No, that's not it at all. Ulded turned to blood magic. The demons and turning people into abominations was not supposed to happen but Uldred was an idiot who got possessed (which could have happened without the coup) and so, as an abomination himself, he went against the plan and started summoning his fellow demons.

#33886
Tirigon

Tirigon
  • Members
  • 8 573 messages

sylvanaerie wrote...


What you are describing is a tyrant as well.  It would appear you are also arguing just to argue.  I am done with this discussion.  


How exactly is a hero who tries to free mages and elves from oppression a tyrant?

#33887
tmp7704

tmp7704
  • Members
  • 11 156 messages

Tirigon wrote...

I disagree. The elf / mage brings that viewpoint in. For the human interests we have Alistair or Anora and the Landsmeet. I mean, we´re not talking about the Antivan way of ruling where you assassinate everyone else. You still have the landsmeet as advisors and a sort of "checks and balances".

Well, just out of curiosity then, how does the elf/mage ruler react when the Landsmeet basically tells her "no" at every turn because they have no interest in giving up their advantageous position for the sake of 2nd grade pseudo-citizens, and don't like the idea of mages suddenly being allowed to run around unchecked?

#33888
Sarah1281

Sarah1281
  • Members
  • 15 280 messages

Tirigon wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Frankly, any non-noble PC who tried their hand at ruling would fare worse than Harrowmont.


The noble isn´t any better, because he / she is way too young to have learned ruling already.

We should also remember that Maric was the best king of Ferelden and he hadn´t learned politics either. Exactly that made him so good.

Alistair is a good ruler, too, and hasn´t learned it.

The noble has been raised with the possibility of ruling eiter a Kingdom or a teynir and they may not have experience but they know a lot more about it than the non-nobles. And Alistair has to learn to rule from Anora, Eamon, or his HN bride. If you took over the throne do you really think all these people who don't want you there will really give you the same sort of education Alistair would get? 

#33889
LadyDamodred

LadyDamodred
  • Members
  • 5 122 messages

Addai67 wrote...

Can someone explain to me what the hell this is supposed to be?  I had a Noble Clothing in my inventory, so decided to try it on Leliana to see what it looked like.  Now she's a big yellow banana with  "Do Not Use" written on her dress.

There's some kind of joke in there, I'm sure.

Posted Image

Posted Image


Did you get that off Majolaine?  I've heard of it dropping as a noble dress before.  it's a bug.

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 31 mai 2010 - 10:53 .


#33890
Tirigon

Tirigon
  • Members
  • 8 573 messages

Sarah1281 wrote...

No, that's not it at all. Ulded turned to blood magic. The demons and turning people into abominations was not supposed to happen but Uldred was an idiot who got possessed (which could have happened without the coup) and so, as an abomination himself, he went against the plan and started summoning his fellow demons.


Uldred and his fellow conspirators turned to blood magic only because they saw no other way to reach a change.

#33891
Addai

Addai
  • Members
  • 25 850 messages

LadyDamodred wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Can someone explain to me what the hell this is supposed to be?  I had a Noble Clothing in my inventory, so decided to try it on Leliana to see what it looked like.  Now she's a big yellow banana with  "Do Not Use" written on her dress.

There's some kind of joke in there, I'm sure.

Posted Image

Posted Image


Did you get that off Majolaine?  I've heard of it dropping as a noble dress before.  it's a bug.

Haven't met Marjolaine.  We just finished Redcliffe, so I must have picked it up there somewhere but I have no idea where.

#33892
tmp7704

tmp7704
  • Members
  • 11 156 messages

Addai67 wrote...

Can someone explain to me what the hell this is supposed to be?  I had a Noble Clothing in my inventory, so decided to try it on Leliana to see what it looked like.  Now she's a big yellow banana with  "Do Not Use" written on her dress.

There's some kind of joke in there, I'm sure.

Posted Image

Not all clothing types have appearances defined for all combinations of races and/or genders. Some are male only, some are female only and some are only partially implemented... for these variations, you may get the yellow banana thing or just invisible outfit.

#33893
Sarah1281

Sarah1281
  • Members
  • 15 280 messages

Tirigon wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...


What you are describing is a tyrant as well.  It would appear you are also arguing just to argue.  I am done with this discussion.  


How exactly is a hero who tries to free mages and elves from oppression a tyrant?

Because you force your way onto the throne. Remember how Bhelen is regarded as a tyrant for dissolving the Assembly and ruling as a dictator who won't hear the voice of dissent even though he was legitimately crowned and gave the casteless rights? Well you aren't a legitimate ruler but a usurper, you have no idea what you're doing with the throne when you get it, and you won't hear all the voices of dissent saying 'WTF, get off the throne you're n ot a human, you're a mage, you're not a noble, you have no right to be here, and you don't know how to rule.'

Well, just out of curiosity then, how does the elf/mage ruler react when the Landsmeet basically tells her "no" at every turn because they have no interest in giving up their advantageous position for the sake of 2nd grade pseudo-citizens, and don't like the idea of mages suddenly being allowed to run around unchecked?

Apparently he kills everyone until he gets his way.

Uldred and his fellow conspirators turned to blood magic only because they saw no other way to reach a change.

True. And yet there are many blood mages (even incompetent ones like Jowan) who manage to use bood magic without getting possessed. The demons stemmed from the possession not the blood magic.

#33894
Tirigon

Tirigon
  • Members
  • 8 573 messages

tmp7704 wrote...

Well, just out of curiosity then, how does the elf/mage ruler react when the Landsmeet basically tells her "no" at every turn because they have no interest in giving up their advantageous position for the sake of 2nd grade pseudo-citizens, and don't like the idea of mages suddenly being allowed to run around unchecked?


That would be very sad. However, such a behaviour would prove the NOBLE´s inability to rule and just increase my conviction that an elf or mage is the better ruler.



On a sidenote, in Awakening you are Arl of Amaranthine even when playing a (Blood) Mage, and the epilogue said you were the best ruler Amaranthine ever had.

The fact that my Orlaisian Elf Warden Mage (that´s 4 things people don´t like as rulers) was well-liked and a good ruler makes opposition to non-noble kings / queens a bit ridiculous imo.

#33895
cmessaz

cmessaz
  • Members
  • 11 463 messages
Has anyone figured out a way to stop frequent crashing yet? Like a setting or something? I might have to leave my rogue hanging for a while if not.

#33896
Lady Jess

Lady Jess
  • Members
  • 6 376 messages

sylvanaerie wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...


The Arl of Redcliffe can't count his own SON as his heir, because Conner is a mage, not even a blood mage, just a mage. The law of the land decrees that a mage cannot hold a position of power. This includes queen. If you want to go further, then let's say you do get away with it, and by some miracle, have a child. That child may be a mage, and therefor cannot be his heir, and the country is in turmoil yet again, when you both reach your calling because of the mind control that got you there in the first place. Of course if you want to completely circumvent the lore of the game, there's a mod out there for it somewhere. But as it stands, you want to be queen, you play a Cousland.



Changing laws such as this is exactly the reason WHY my mage wants to rule. The chantry suppression of mages has gone too long already. It is time to step into Andraste´s footsteps and raise up to free the land of suppression.

Of course it doesn´t matter that much because I can always roleplay my bloodmage mindcontrols whoever rules.

Oh, and in fact everyone can rule by making unhardened Alistair solo king and being chancellor.


and your arguments are exactly WHY the Chantry cracks down on mages.  Such out of control BS is why they are in towers and kept under lock and key.  Its why blood magic is so evil, using it to further your own selfish goals. 
I am of the mind that mages need some checks and balances esp if they are untrained *Points to Connor* or simply out of control and making stupid choices *Points to Jowan*.  I believe the Circle is a necessary evil to protect mages from the populace who would doubtless kill them if they suddenly blood magic'ed up people or set their heads on fire.  (I wonder how many mages are killed before the templars find them?)  It also protects the populace from such sterling examples of mages like Uldred and Avernus.Posted Image


The blood mage I'll be playing after I finish Caislyn, is hateful about the circle, and the chantry. She chose blood magic as defense, and wouldn't use it to harm innocents. Ever.  But she'd give the last drop of her life force to save what she holds dear. She's not a good girl by any stretch, and Alistair isn't even an option for her. Because no way, in MY mind could he look past what she is. Another mage he could, and will, but not a blood mage. As fr as she's concerned it's the mages that need to stand up for themselves, to make things change. Any law enacted would just cause more trouble, because many mages believe the way things are is right. Wynne, Keili, even Irving to a point. Change needs to come from within, and together with the chantry and ruler.

As for elves being queen, there's another aspect to that. Look at the elves lot in the city. They're the equivalent of the dusters in Orzammar. The Dalish won't accept them, and neither will the humans. Would you really want to see an elven queen? Knowing it could potentially give the idea to the single, female city elves to try and find a noble themselves? To turn to noble hunting? Is THAT good for them?

As far as wanting a good ruler...Alistair, on his own, and hardened IS a good ruler. He can make the tough decisions, while being more fair to everyone.

#33897
Tirigon

Tirigon
  • Members
  • 8 573 messages

Sarah1281 wrote...

Well, just out of curiosity then, how does the elf/mage ruler react when the Landsmeet basically tells her "no" at every turn because they have no interest in giving up their advantageous position for the sake of 2nd grade pseudo-citizens, and don't like the idea of mages suddenly being allowed to run around unchecked?

Apparently he kills everyone until he gets his way.


That wasn´t my intention.
Though it would be the most realistical approach, I´ll give you that:crying:. After all it´s what most rulers do, in Fantasy and in Real Life alike.

#33898
Tirigon

Tirigon
  • Members
  • 8 573 messages

cmessaz wrote...

Has anyone figured out a way to stop frequent crashing yet? Like a setting or something? I might have to leave my rogue hanging for a while if not.


I would be interested in a solution, too. The only way I found so far is quitting the game every hour or so and start anew.

#33899
Lady Jess

Lady Jess
  • Members
  • 6 376 messages

cmessaz wrote...

Has anyone figured out a way to stop frequent crashing yet? Like a setting or something? I might have to leave my rogue hanging for a while if not.


I...actually haven't crashed in a very long time...watch, now I've robably jinxed myself.

#33900
cmessaz

cmessaz
  • Members
  • 11 463 messages
Yeah, I hadn't crashed in a long time until I started playing a bomb throwing rogue again, which happens to be my fav way to play.

No my ears!!!!!
Posted Image

Modifié par cmessaz, 31 mai 2010 - 11:03 .