60083 réponses à ce sujet

[cmessaz]

There must be a bug because I got the same epilogue slide with my CE as I did with every other character, I made Shianni Bann.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...

City elves fair better if you do not name a bann. And they fair better under Alistair than Anora.

That was my initial impression. Unless someone confirms the riot things happening under Alistair's rule. I see no reason why the Bann would be assassinated only under Anora, as the culprit was clearly just an average human. The murder should have happened regardless of the monarch.

[Sandtigress]

tmp7704 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Maybe they only trigger for Anora-solo queen because she doesn't improve the situation for them and Alistair does.

Well, the conditions on the slides don't imply that -- these are shown if condition is met that "there is bann of alienage" which i'm presuming is set when you name a person to be the Bann in post-coronation sequence. There's no condition "Anora is the queen" for them. Afterwards, the second series of slides splits depending on whether the slavers were dealt with and then depending on who got to rule. But that's separate.

One situation where these slides won't show is if the player dies killing the Archdemon -- then the player's father is named to be the Bann but the flag doesn't get set to signify it so slides get skipped. This is probably for the better, as the alternative of learning that player's fatther gets stoned to death some time later for being named the Bann in recognition of what his daughter did... well, that's bit too cruel. If pretty realistic twist of knife in the gut.

Yeah...my CEF made her father bann, and I KNOW I would have remembered him getting stoned to death....I'm glad it didn't trigger/wasn't supposed to trigger/whatever.

[Sarah1281]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

City elves fair better if you do not name a bann. And they fair better under Alistair than Anora.

That was my initial impression. Unless someone confirms the riot things happening under Alistair's rule. I see no reason why the Bann would be assassinated only under Anora, as the culprit was clearly just an average human. The murder should have happened regardless of the monarch.

I don't know. If Alistair can ease tensions (which is one of his biggest selling points as a ruler) then why would there be the same results as if things are left alone or potentially made worse under Anora? 

[tmp7704]

cmessaz wrote...

There must be a bug because I got the same epilogue slide with my CE as I did with every other character, I made Shianni Bann.

Maybe there's a bug indeed in the post-coronation conversation that leads to that part not triggering. Someone would have to load that into Toolset and check when/if the flags are being set, though. I believe that dialogue is named "cutscene_postcoronation" but it only shows the "Root" node for me.

[SurelyForth]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

City elves fair better if you do not name a bann. And they fair better under Alistair than Anora.

That was my initial impression. Unless someone confirms the riot things happening under Alistair's rule. I see no reason why the Bann would be assassinated only under Anora, as the culprit was clearly just an average human. The murder should have happened regardless of the monarch.

Not necessarily, since it could be said that Alistair would probably foster an environment where such actions are less tolerated. Things could be bad under both, but there could be a greater likelihood of "getting away with murder" under Anora than under Alistair that could influence the probability of the crime happening in the first place.

If that makes any sense. I'm pretty sleepy.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

City elves fair better if you do not name a bann. And they fair better under Alistair than Anora.

That was my initial impression. Unless someone confirms the riot things happening under Alistair's rule. I see no reason why the Bann would be assassinated only under Anora, as the culprit was clearly just an average human. The murder should have happened regardless of the monarch.

I don't know. If Alistair can ease tensions (which is one of his biggest selling points as a ruler) then why would there be the same results as if things are left alone or potentially made worse under Anora? 

I sincerily doubt Alistair is capable of persuading that murderering elves is wrong in a such a short amount of time. Biggots would remain biggots and I don't see how Alistair is able to eliminate them on such a short notice.

It's far more likely that the slides did not trigger properly, which is a shame.  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 01 juin 2010 - 02:34 .

[Lara Denton]

The endings are under cutscene_slideshow. I'm not sure I know how to look properly into it, but, if Alistair is king, the endings change and there is no mention of riots.

[Sarah1281]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

City elves fair better if you do not name a bann. And they fair better under Alistair than Anora.

That was my initial impression. Unless someone confirms the riot things happening under Alistair's rule. I see no reason why the Bann would be assassinated only under Anora, as the culprit was clearly just an average human. The murder should have happened regardless of the monarch.

I don't know. If Alistair can ease tensions (which is one of his biggest selling points as a ruler) then why would there be the same results as if things are left alone or potentially made worse under Anora? 

I sincerily doubt Alistair is capable of persuading that murderering elves is wrong in a such a short amount of time. Biggots would remain biggots and I don't see how Alistair is able to eliminate them on such a short notice.

It's far more likely that the slides did not trigger properly, which is a shame.  

Well, it says that the murder occurs several years later and that doens't seem like too little time for Alistair to make it clear that he's not going to let the elves in the Alienage be treated as poorly as they were before with no consequences and it should be relatively easy to enforce since Denerim is his city and he can personally get involved if need be.

[Addai]

SurelyForth wrote...

Not necessarily, since it could be said that Alistair would probably foster an environment where such actions are less tolerated. Things could be bad under both, but there could be a greater likelihood of "getting away with murder" under Anora than under Alistair that could influence the probability of the crime happening in the first place.

If that makes any sense. I'm pretty sleepy.

Yes, the purge of the alienage occurs under Anora's watch, so her continued rule would be a signal to that sort of element that business goes on as usual.  I've always felt it a great miscalculation on Anora's part that she brags to an elven PC about having ruled the country for five years.

Anora:  Hey isn't the status quo just great?  Don't you want more of the same?  Then pick me!
Elven PC:  <_<

[cmessaz]

tmp7704 wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

There must be a bug because I got the same epilogue slide with my CE as I did with every other character, I made Shianni Bann.

Maybe there's a bug indeed in the post-coronation conversation that leads to that part not triggering. Someone would have to load that into Toolset and check when/if the flags are being set, though. I believe that dialogue is named "cutscene_postcoronation" but it only shows the "Root" node for me.

Anora was queen, I was just surprised to see the same old slide as I always got, it bugged me that it wasn't different.

[SurelyForth]

All this talk about elves makes me curious about a conversation that we had once in the Alistair Ending thread regarding Alistair's parentage and the possible implications of what could happen if that ever came to light while he's on the throne.

I would really love to see such a thing addressed by the game, but I doubt it would ever happen.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 01 juin 2010 - 02:40 .

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

City elves fair better if you do not name a bann. And they fair better under Alistair than Anora.

That was my initial impression. Unless someone confirms the riot things happening under Alistair's rule. I see no reason why the Bann would be assassinated only under Anora, as the culprit was clearly just an average human. The murder should have happened regardless of the monarch.

I don't know. If Alistair can ease tensions (which is one of his biggest selling points as a ruler) then why would there be the same results as if things are left alone or potentially made worse under Anora? 

I sincerily doubt Alistair is capable of persuading that murderering elves is wrong in a such a short amount of time. Biggots would remain biggots and I don't see how Alistair is able to eliminate them on such a short notice.

It's far more likely that the slides did not trigger properly, which is a shame.  

I think the problem lies in naming a bann, ie, making a regular elf a member of the nobility.  This upsets people, regardless of the monarch.  A CE/DE can become a teyrn, but they're the Hero of Ferelden.  People will let thing slide for them that they wouldn't normally tolerate.  Naming a bann seems to focus the hatred and rage onto the elves.

Without that focus, things improve for the elves.  There's less reason for people to be upset, and Alistair's influence helps in that situation.

[cmessaz]

See I don't like Anora myself. But I can RP a character who does, so I get different endings, so I can leave Alistair unhardened, etc. I get a unique playthrough each time.

[tmp7704]

laradenton wrote...

The endings are under cutscene_slideshow. I'm not sure I know how to look properly into it, but, if Alistair is king, the endings change and there is no mention of riots.

There is two branches for Alienage in that dialogue -- the one i quoted goes first, and should trigger "If there's a Bann of the Alienage (no matter who)"  Then the branch below holds the alternative (there is no named Bann) and it splits for Alistair and Anora, giving different scenarios.

If everyone only gets to see this alternative no matter if they name the Bann or not then i guess the flags which should trigger the Bann scenario isn't being set. Either because of a bug or as conscious decision to remove that content in favour of the Anora/Alistair scenario for everyone.

Modifié par tmp7704, 01 juin 2010 - 02:41 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...
Well, it says that the murder occurs several years later and that doens't seem like too little time for Alistair to make it clear that he's not going to let the elves in the Alienage be treated as poorly as they were before with no consequences and it should be relatively easy to enforce since Denerim is his city and he can personally get involved if need be.

A few years is no where near enough to change attitudes like this, unless he is willing to use force like Bhelen does to impose his vision of Casteless rights, which I doubt he does (and even Bhelen had to deal with several assassination attempts).

I am not convinced. There is absolutely no reason for Alistair's rule to completely prevent the birth of bigots who were raised with ideas and hatreds that are centuries old, in a matter of a few years.   

[LadyDamodred]

tmp7704 wrote...

laradenton wrote...

The endings are under cutscene_slideshow. I'm not sure I know how to look properly into it, but, if Alistair is king, the endings change and there is no mention of riots.

There is two branches for Alienage in that dialogue -- the one i quoted goes first, and should trigger "If there's a Bann of the Alienage (no matter who)"  Then the branch below holds the alternative (there is no named Bann) and it splits for Alistair and Anora, giving different scenarios.

If everyone only gets to see this alternative no matter if they name the Bann or not then i guess the flags which should trigger the Bann scenario isn't being set. Either because of a bug or as conscious decision to remove that content in favour of the Anora/Alistair scenario for everyone.

I wonder how many other ending slides aren't triggering.  I know I found the werewolf one the other day, and when I asked, it didn't seem like any others had seen it either.

[Addai]

cmessaz wrote...

See I don't like Anora myself. But I can RP a character who does, so I get different endings, so I can leave Alistair unhardened, etc. I get a unique playthrough each time.

I have in the past- well, only left Ali unhardened on my 1st game and never since- but that's behind me now because whatever curiosity I had is satisfied.  I've seen an An:sick:ra playthrough and have no desire to see her sashay into the meeting chamber again.

I am tempted on my Dalish mage to leave Alistair unhardened and do a Warden ending, but I don't think I can actually do it.  Especially since reading the novels, Alistair just has to be king.

[Sarah1281]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
Well, it says that the murder occurs several years later and that doens't seem like too little time for Alistair to make it clear that he's not going to let the elves in the Alienage be treated as poorly as they were before with no consequences and it should be relatively easy to enforce since Denerim is his city and he can personally get involved if need be.

A few years is no where near enough to change attitudes like this, unless he is willing to use force like Bhelen does to impose his vision of Casteless rights, which I doubt he does (and even Bhelen had to deal with several assassination attempts).

I am not convinced. There is absolutely no reason for Alistair's rule to completely prevent the birth of bigots who were raised with ideas and hatreds that are centuries old, in a matter of a few years.   

I don't think it will stop bigots but it might prevent bigots from thinking they can get away with murdering the freaking bann.

[Lara Denton]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
Well, it says that the murder occurs several years later and that doens't seem like too little time for Alistair to make it clear that he's not going to let the elves in the Alienage be treated as poorly as they were before with no consequences and it should be relatively easy to enforce since Denerim is his city and he can personally get involved if need be.

A few years is no where near enough to change attitudes like this, unless he is willing to use force like Bhelen does to impose his vision of Casteless rights, which I doubt he does (and even Bhelen had to deal with several assassination attempts).

I am not convinced. There is absolutely no reason for Alistair's rule to completely prevent the birth of bigots who were raised with ideas and hatreds that are centuries old, in a matter of a few years.   

Of course you're not convinced. But Alistair is charming like that.

[LadyDamodred]

I am going to agree with KoP on this, but for the reasons I stated above. Naming an elf a bann infuriated people. At that point, no amount of charisma and charm is going to help. It's only when you don't give people a reason to hate on elves more than the differences between how Alistair and Anora handle the situation becomes evident.

[Zeleen]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
Well, it says that the murder occurs several years later and that doens't seem like too little time for Alistair to make it clear that he's not going to let the elves in the Alienage be treated as poorly as they were before with no consequences and it should be relatively easy to enforce since Denerim is his city and he can personally get involved if need be.

A few years is no where near enough to change attitudes like this, unless he is willing to use force like Bhelen does to impose his vision of Casteless rights, which I doubt he does (and even Bhelen had to deal with several assassination attempts).

I am not convinced. There is absolutely no reason for Alistair's rule to completely prevent the birth of bigots who were raised with ideas and hatreds that are centuries old, in a matter of a few years.   

History show us this...  Many times over..  Good intentions  vs Reality of human (or whatever race) buit-in prejudices.   Prejudices win

Modifié par Zeleen, 01 juin 2010 - 02:48 .

[Lara Denton]

tmp7704 wrote...

laradenton wrote...

The endings are under cutscene_slideshow. I'm not sure I know how to look properly into it, but, if Alistair is king, the endings change and there is no mention of riots.

There is two branches for Alienage in that dialogue -- the one i quoted goes first, and should trigger "If there's a Bann of the Alienage (no matter who)"  Then the branch below holds the alternative (there is no named Bann) and it splits for Alistair and Anora, giving different scenarios.

If everyone only gets to see this alternative no matter if they name the Bann or not then i guess the flags which should trigger the Bann scenario isn't being set. Either because of a bug or as conscious decision to remove that content in favour of the Anora/Alistair scenario for everyone.

The toolset is like a foreign land to me.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...
I don't think it will stop bigots but it might prevent bigots from thinking they can get away with murdering the freaking bann.

Because you think Anora is all like "Oh sure go ahead and kill a bann I personally appointed"?
 
And let's be honest here. Who is more intimidating? Alistair? Or Anora Mac Tic? Please. If she or Bhelen are not  perfect deterrents, then there is no way Alistair can pul this off.

[Sarah1281]

LadyDamodred wrote...

I am going to agree with KoP on this, but for the reasons I stated above. Naming an elf a bann infuriated people. At that point, no amount of charisma and charm is going to help. It's only when you don't give people a reason to hate on elves more than the differences between how Alistair and Anora handle the situation becomes evident.

Alistair and Anora really suck at granting boons, don't they? They were already planning on giving the Dalish land, restoring Highever, and giving Amaranthine to the Wardens. They can't actaully carry out freeing the mages and when all a poor CE wants is fair treatment they go and make things worse. And do actually ask before sending an army to Orzammar in case Harrowmont decides to be a moron and vetoes them? You might as well not bother asking for anything but the teynir or chancellorship.