60083 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...
To be fair, most of the Dalish tattoos do seem to involve at least the foreheads and can be brightly colored, if you so choose.  Maric might not have noticed other variations in the firelight.  I don't think this is too far from the game tattoos.

Can you choose other colors besides earth tones?  Seems like the game went more with the woodsy theme with the Dalish, whereas the book elves are presented more as you would think of the wandering folk in Europe- brightly colored clothes etc.

The game does have other colors: purples, blues, greens, metallic colors, etc...

I missed that completely.  I must have had the intensity down or something?  They all looked like variations of grey, brown and rust tone to me.

[Merilsell]

Axekix wrote...

Merilsell wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Tell you what.

Next time we put in a male lead, we will make sure to make him the manliest and most stoic creature you could possibly imagine. Just for you. He will be so manly he will suck the body hair right off of John Wayne and make Chuck Norris weep with envy. He will never show a single emotion, not even at his grandmother's funeral, and will never utter a single complaint about your actions... he will simply reach out of the game, slap you across the face and then take over the party.

The rest of the party won't mind, and neither will you... because he will be that awesome. Deep down inside you will resent him, and resent the fact that every NPC in every town the party enters falls in love with him and not with you. But that part of you also knows he deserves that love. Even needs it.

I am certain there is not a single fault that you or anyone could find with such a character.

Discussion ends. Gaider wins.

Did Gaider really write that, because if so, that is very very awesome.

Here have a link and get owned by arguments. I always love to use it for those matters. Another jewel is that one:

Some players are whiny, however, and sure do cry a lot whenever any character dares to express a thought contrary to their own or maybe, I don't know, expresses an emotion. I think this says more about their shallowness than Alistair's whininess.

David Gaider is full of awesome. Period.

Modifié par Merilsell, 01 juin 2010 - 10:19 .

[LadyDamodred]

Axekix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

The first three are all rooted in the same issue, which if you play the game a certain, changes with him.  But that's been discussed to death.

Oh?  Even when I hardened him none of that really changed, minus 1 line at the landsmeet.  He still seemed pretty terrified of the idea whenever we'd discuss him being king, unless that's a bug?

As far as a relationship goes, he's nervous.  Which is...normal.  He will, however, take the lead in all aspects of the relationship, so...

Yeah ok, I'll give him credit for the swoop, that is a pretty good one.  But that's it!  His proposition at camp seemed kinda desperate.

  If that's truly how you feel, I can't change your mind.

Sure you could.  That's the purpose of debate, no? 

It's mainly at the Landsmeet, where he comes out point blanc and tells you he wants it, and when you talk to him about the DR, and when he's engaged to Anora and says she's not just going to run roughshod over him, etc...

As for the nervous/desperate, that might be just the way women and men interpret it differently.  Keep in mind, he has never done this before.  He's not sure if he's going about it the right way, if she really does feel the same about him, etc...

And I've found it very difficult to sway people once their opinions about a character are set, though we did get you to play a F!PC, so I suppose you aren't a lost cause. 

[Kryyptehk]

Addai67 wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...
To be fair, most of the Dalish tattoos do seem to involve at least the foreheads and can be brightly colored, if you so choose.  Maric might not have noticed other variations in the firelight.  I don't think this is too far from the game tattoos.

Can you choose other colors besides earth tones?  Seems like the game went more with the woodsy theme with the Dalish, whereas the book elves are presented more as you would think of the wandering folk in Europe- brightly colored clothes etc.

The game does have other colors: purples, blues, greens, metallic colors, etc...

I missed that completely.  I must have had the intensity down or something?  They all looked like variations of grey, brown and rust tone to me.

Sometimes it depends on your computer, the colors are pretty bright to me, but on my ex's computer there are brown and different brown and black.

[LadyDamodred]

Addai67 wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...
To be fair, most of the Dalish tattoos do seem to involve at least the foreheads and can be brightly colored, if you so choose.  Maric might not have noticed other variations in the firelight.  I don't think this is too far from the game tattoos.

Can you choose other colors besides earth tones?  Seems like the game went more with the woodsy theme with the Dalish, whereas the book elves are presented more as you would think of the wandering folk in Europe- brightly colored clothes etc.

The game does have other colors: purples, blues, greens, metallic colors, etc...

I missed that completely.  I must have had the intensity down or something?  They all looked like variations of grey, brown and rust tone to me.

Yeah, the intensity and the fact that the CC is a piece of **** and it's friggin hard to see.  Sometimes the darkest intensity makes them all look like earth tones, too.

[Axekix]

Addai67 wrote...

Axekix wrote...

He's he's scared of leading, he's scared of making any kind of important decision, he's scared of being king, he's scared of his relationship with a femPC, he's scared of pretty much everything... so no I'd say he's quite a bit more timid than any other party member.  Hence the title

He's not scared of leading.  He thinks he's not suited for it, and the PC is there, so he is happy to let you take the lead role.  He even recognizes that this is what he is doing (see my video here, towards the end).  Part of this is his character and part of this is the necessity for the PC to control the game, so don't let yourself run away with the idea.

I've never really bought into the game mechanic argument (ie, the PC has to control the game so Alistair is made a pushover by default).  They could have written him in as a new recruit just like the PC if they had wished.  Instead they made a conscious effort to make him the senior warden who turns over leadership to you.  I think it makes the intent that much stronger.

As for being scared of being king, should one not be scared to assume responsibility for thousands of lives?  As he tells Shale, unless you have to be in that spot yourself, "Then. Shut. Up."

Sure it's something to be nervous over, but Alistair spends the first half of the game  (longer if you wait to do Redcliffe) completely running away from his fate, praying it will never come to that.  It's a bit beyond normal concern don't you think?  He has issues with taking responsibility of any kind.
 

About the relationship aspect, he's no more scared about it than anyone would be, especially someone inexperienced.  I would rather call it awkwardness and nervousness rather than fear.  I think you're confusing his desire to idealize it a bit and to make sure that it is a deep relationship with fear.

Maybe.  I've only done the romance once, but I seem to recall him being painfully shy and insecure the entire time.  I think the first time he confessed "love" he tried doing it as a joke or something... I couldn't help but think, "damn, man up!"

[Addai]

AnniLau wrote...

It becomes clearer and clearer that what (most) women want in a romance is not the same thing (most) guys want in a bromance.

I think it more likely that many guys imagine that their Mary Sue PCs are actually themselves, when in their real lives they are probably suburban couch potatoes who couldn't lift a sword let alone use one.  So when Gaider writes a character who's more like an actual person than a stereotype, they feel free to say what a wimp he is.  It's lulzy.

[Kryyptehk]

Merilsell wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Merilsell wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Tell you what.

Next time we put in a male lead, we will make sure to make him the manliest and most stoic creature you could possibly imagine. Just for you. He will be so manly he will suck the body hair right off of John Wayne and make Chuck Norris weep with envy. He will never show a single emotion, not even at his grandmother's funeral, and will never utter a single complaint about your actions... he will simply reach out of the game, slap you across the face and then take over the party.

The rest of the party won't mind, and neither will you... because he will be that awesome. Deep down inside you will resent him, and resent the fact that every NPC in every town the party enters falls in love with him and not with you. But that part of you also knows he deserves that love. Even needs it.

I am certain there is not a single fault that you or anyone could find with such a character.

Discussion ends. Gaider wins.

Did Gaider really write that, because if so, that is very very awesome.

Here have a link and get owned by arguments. I always love to use it for those matters.

D. Gaider is full of awesome. Period.

What I like about Gaider (and a lot of the other people from Bioware on her) is that they really don't give a crap about being nice to people who don't deserve it. And when people say they aren't going to buy their game because of -insert stupid reason for not buying game- then Gaider is just like, "Okay, whatever."

Gaider = love:wub:

[Lady Jess]

Axekix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Axekix wrote...

He's he's scared of leading, he's scared of making any kind of important decision, he's scared of being king, he's scared of his relationship with a femPC, he's scared of pretty much everything... so no I'd say he's quite a bit more timid than any other party member.  Hence the title

He's not scared of leading.  He thinks he's not suited for it, and the PC is there, so he is happy to let you take the lead role.  He even recognizes that this is what he is doing (see my video here, towards the end).  Part of this is his character and part of this is the necessity for the PC to control the game, so don't let yourself run away with the idea.

I've never really bought into the game mechanic argument (ie, the PC has to control the game so Alistair is made a pushover by default).  They could have written him in as a new recruit just like the PC if they had wished.  Instead they made a conscious effort to make him the senior warden who turns over leadership to you.  I think it makes the intent that much stronger.

As for being scared of being king, should one not be scared to assume responsibility for thousands of lives?  As he tells Shale, unless you have to be in that spot yourself, "Then. Shut. Up."

Sure it's something to be nervous over, but Alistair spends the first half of the game  (longer if you wait to do Redcliffe) completely running away from his fate, praying it will never come to that.  It's a bit beyond normal concern don't you think?  He has issues with taking responsibility of any kind.
 

About the relationship aspect, he's no more scared about it than anyone would be, especially someone inexperienced.  I would rather call it awkwardness and nervousness rather than fear.  I think you're confusing his desire to idealize it a bit and to make sure that it is a deep relationship with fear.

Maybe.  I've only done the romance once, but I seem to recall him being painfully shy and insecure the entire time.  I think the first time he confessed "love" he tried doing it as a joke or something... I couldn't help but think, "damn, man up!"

Dude, did you miss the time he swooped in for a kiss out of the blue and confessed he cared about the PC? That's not something you do if you haven't...as you so quaintly put it "manned up" and actually asks her if she feels the same. Putting yourself out there with no sure way of knowing you won't be rejected is kind of a big deal.

edited to link...

Modifié par Lady Jess, 01 juin 2010 - 10:24 .

[Axekix]

Lady Jess wrote...

Dude, did you miss the time he swooped in for a kiss out of the blue and confessed he cared about the PC? That's not something you do if you haven't...as you so quaintly put it "manned up" and actually asks her if she feels the same. Putting yourself out there with no sure way of knowing you won't be rejected is kind of a big deal.

edited to link...

Nope, in fact I gave him props for it a few posts up!

I didn't get a love confession there on my char though, I got one after I let him hit it.  Maybe I should've played harder to get?

Modifié par Axekix, 01 juin 2010 - 10:26 .

[Kryyptehk]

Axekix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Axekix wrote...

He's he's scared of leading, he's scared of making any kind of important decision, he's scared of being king, he's scared of his relationship with a femPC, he's scared of pretty much everything... so no I'd say he's quite a bit more timid than any other party member.  Hence the title

He's not scared of leading.  He thinks he's not suited for it, and the PC is there, so he is happy to let you take the lead role.  He even recognizes that this is what he is doing (see my video here, towards the end).  Part of this is his character and part of this is the necessity for the PC to control the game, so don't let yourself run away with the idea.

I've never really bought into the game mechanic argument (ie, the PC has to control the game so Alistair is made a pushover by default).  They could have written him in as a new recruit just like the PC if they had wished.  Instead they made a conscious effort to make him the senior warden who turns over leadership to you.  I think it makes the intent that much stronger.

As for being scared of being king, should one not be scared to assume responsibility for thousands of lives?  As he tells Shale, unless you have to be in that spot yourself, "Then. Shut. Up."

Sure it's something to be nervous over, but Alistair spends the first half of the game  (longer if you wait to do Redcliffe) completely running away from his fate, praying it will never come to that.  It's a bit beyond normal concern don't you think?  He has issues with taking responsibility of any kind.
 

About the relationship aspect, he's no more scared about it than anyone would be, especially someone inexperienced.  I would rather call it awkwardness and nervousness rather than fear.  I think you're confusing his desire to idealize it a bit and to make sure that it is a deep relationship with fear.

Maybe.  I've only done the romance once, but I seem to recall him being painfully shy and insecure the entire time.  I think the first time he confessed "love" he tried doing it as a joke or something... I couldn't help but think, "damn, man up!"

Axekix, are you annoying on purpose or is it accidental? Because your "men are awesome and manly; women make sandwiches and can't punch" stuff is getting on my nerves. You are not debating, you are showing off your "manliness" by saying Alistair is a wimp for not being the perfect example of masculinity. Please quit trolling a normally fun thread.

And if you want to go on about how wimpy Alistair is, go make another thread doing it. Given the fact you have repeatedly proved how ignorant you are, I'm sure you could get other (equally ignorant) people to agree with you. Maybe it'll go as well as your "women are weak" thread did.

Modifié par Kryyptehk, 01 juin 2010 - 10:28 .

[Lady Jess]

Axekix wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

Dude, did you miss the time he swooped in for a kiss out of the blue and confessed he cared about the PC? That's not something you do if you haven't...as you so quaintly put it "manned up" and actually asks her if she feels the same. Putting yourself out there with no sure way of knowing you won't be rejected is kind of a big deal.

edited to link...

Nope, in fact I gave him props for it a few posts up!

I didn't get a love confession there on my char though, I got one after I let him hit it.  Maybe I should've played harder to get?

Ugh...pig much?

[LadyDamodred]

Kryyptehk wrote...
Axekix, are you annoying on purpose or is it accidental? Because your "men are awesome and manly; women make sandwiches and can't punch" stuff is getting on my nerves. You are not debating, you are showing off your "manliness" by saying Alistair is a wimp for not being the perfect example of masculinity. Please quit trolling a normally fun thread.

And if you want to go on about how wimpy Alistair is, go make another thread doing it. Given the fact you have repeatedly proved how ignorant you are, I'm sure you could get other people to agree with you. Maybe it'll go as well as your "women are weak" thread did.

Didn't we successfully get him to play and enjoy a F!PC?  I consider that a success.

Axekix:  If you let him tentnap you, he gives you a funny love confession, which I'm fine with, I know some people aren't.  If you take him to the tent, I believe you get the 'first and last woman' line.  Not sure.  Can anyone tell me?

[Axekix]

Kryyptehk wrote...

Axekix, are you annoying on purpose or is it accidental? Because your "men are awesome and manly; women make sandwiches and can't punch" stuff is getting on my nerves.

That's what you got from my post?  Really?

And if you want to go on about how wimpy Alistair is, go make another thread doing it. Given the fact you have repeatedly proved how ignorant you are, I'm sure you could get other people to agree with you. Maybe it'll go as well as your "women are weak" thread did.

Hahaha, wow.  Well, while personal attacks are a great  way of getting your point across, no I don't think I'll be going anywhere, thank you.

[Lady Jess]

cmessaz wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

AnniLau wrote...

It becomes clearer and clearer that what (most) women want in a romance is not the same thing (most) guys want in a bromance.


*generalizes wildly*

It's really kinda scary too. I mean, if you (meaning one of these guys that sees Alistair as weak because he's emotional and lacks confidence) had a friend that say...went to war, saw his buddies die in front of him, guys that were like brothers to him, and that friend comes home emotional, sad, and suffering a loss of confidence in his ability to lead...is he then weak and no longer their "bro"? Or is he suffering from PTSD due to events that were beyond his control, and worthy of their support?

And we have yet another wonderful point. Thanks Lady J.

Thank you:)

[Kryyptehk]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...
Axekix, are you annoying on purpose or is it accidental? Because your "men are awesome and manly; women make sandwiches and can't punch" stuff is getting on my nerves. You are not debating, you are showing off your "manliness" by saying Alistair is a wimp for not being the perfect example of masculinity. Please quit trolling a normally fun thread.

And if you want to go on about how wimpy Alistair is, go make another thread doing it. Given the fact you have repeatedly proved how ignorant you are, I'm sure you could get other people to agree with you. Maybe it'll go as well as your "women are weak" thread did.

Didn't we successfully get him to play and enjoy a F!PC?  I consider that a success.

Yeah, and he immediately came to thread talking about how much the Alistair romance sucks. Two steps forward 40 steps back.

Modifié par Kryyptehk, 01 juin 2010 - 10:32 .

[Lady Jess]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...
Axekix, are you annoying on purpose or is it accidental? Because your "men are awesome and manly; women make sandwiches and can't punch" stuff is getting on my nerves. You are not debating, you are showing off your "manliness" by saying Alistair is a wimp for not being the perfect example of masculinity. Please quit trolling a normally fun thread.

And if you want to go on about how wimpy Alistair is, go make another thread doing it. Given the fact you have repeatedly proved how ignorant you are, I'm sure you could get other people to agree with you. Maybe it'll go as well as your "women are weak" thread did.

Didn't we successfully get him to play and enjoy a F!PC?  I consider that a success.

Axekix:  If you let him tentnap you, he gives you a funny love confession, which I'm fine with, I know some people aren't.  If you take him to the tent, I believe you get the 'first and last woman' line.  Not sure.  Can anyone tell me?

Yes, if you initiate the tent with him, then in place of his tent invite you get that confession.

[Kryyptehk]

Axekix wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Axekix, are you annoying on purpose or is it accidental? Because your "men are awesome and manly; women make sandwiches and can't punch" stuff is getting on my nerves.

That's what you got from my post?  Really?

No, I got that from every post you ever posted ever.

[Merilsell]

I've never really bought into the game mechanic argument (ie, the PC hasto control the game so Alistair is made a pushover by default).  They could have written him in as a new recruit just like the PC if they had wished.  Instead they made a conscious effort to make him the senior warden who turns over leadership to you.  I think it makes the intent that much stronger.

Senior Warden? By what? Six month experience? Lol, that is not much time by any means to make him to the uber-Warden, who knows everything. And supposingily intended by Gaider. How should that have worked with two total newbies? Not that Alistair is experienced as a Warden by any means. Remember, in Ostagar Alistair tells you that he has encountered Darkspawn exactly once and that Duncan kept him mostly out of the line. So while he is still a greenhorn just like you, you as the player need someone who knows a bit about the Grey Warden and what it means to be one. Hence the six month "experience."

Game mechanics are your friend

Modifié par Merilsell, 01 juin 2010 - 10:35 .

[Kryyptehk]

Merilsell wrote...

I've never really bought into the game mechanic argument (ie, the PC hasto control the game so Alistair is made a pushover by default).  They could have written him in as a new recruit just like the PC if they had wished.  Instead they made a conscious effort to make him the senior warden who turns over leadership to you.  I think it makes the intent that much stronger.

Senior Warden? By what? Six month experience? Lol, that is not much time by any means to make him to the uber-Warden, who knows everything. And supposingily intended by Gaider. How should that have worked with two total newbies? Not that Alistair is experienced as a Warden by any means. Remember, in Ostagar Alistair tells you that he has encountered Darkspawn exactly once and that Duncan kept him mostly out of the line. So while he is still a greenhorn just like you, you as the player need someone who knows a bit about the Grey Warden and what it means to be one. Hence the six month "experience."

Game mechanics are your friend

This.

[Axekix]

Kryyptehk wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Axekix, are you annoying on purpose or is it accidental? Because your "men are awesome and manly; women make sandwiches and can't punch" stuff is getting on my nerves.

That's what you got from my post?  Really?

No, I got that from every post you ever posted ever.

Well then, allow me to at least attempt to difuse the situation by saying that's not what I think at all tbh.  And women can definitely punch!  I've been on the recieving end of enough at my gym to know that

Take that for what you will. 

[Addai]

Axekix wrote...
I've never really bought into the game mechanic argument (ie, the PC has to control the game so Alistair is made a pushover by default).  They could have written him in as a new recruit just like the PC if they had wished.  Instead they made a conscious effort to make him the senior warden who turns over leadership to you.  I think it makes the intent that much stronger.

He IS basically a new recruit.  He has only fought darkspawn once when you meet him in Ostagar.  As for "not buying" the game mechanics idea, how do you envision this working?  The PC takes a course of action and Alistair says "no, we're doing this instead" and the game follows him instead of the PC?  I can hear the hysterics now.  People get upset about the fact that Alistair won't back down about Loghain.

Sure it's something to be nervous over, but Alistair spends the first half of the game  (longer if you wait to do Redcliffe) completely running away from his fate, praying it will never come to that.  It's a bit beyond normal concern don't you think?  He has issues with taking responsibility of any kind.

He takes his responsibility as a GW very seriously, to the point that he would consider giving up the first woman he's ever loved, the only love he wants to ever have.  I think you're just makin stuff up at this point.

As for being king, yes it does take the whole game for him to get used to the idea.  Because he spent 20 years being told he wasn't going to ever be king and to get the idea out of his head.  You're just supposed to switch on a dime and say "oh, ok"?  A highly ambitious person might, but that's not Alistair (thankfully not).
 

Maybe.  I've only done the romance once, but I seem to recall him being painfully shy and insecure the entire time.  I think the first time he confessed "love" he tried doing it as a joke or something... I couldn't help but think, "damn, man up!"

If you just don't like his personality, that's fine.  Stand back and let the thousands of women swoon.  While we're doing that, you can tell yourself to "man up" and not be jealous. 

Modifié par Addai67, 01 juin 2010 - 10:39 .

[Axekix]

Merilsell wrote...

I've never really bought into the game mechanic argument (ie, the PC hasto control the game so Alistair is made a pushover by default).  They could have written him in as a new recruit just like the PC if they had wished.  Instead they made a conscious effort to make him the senior warden who turns over leadership to you.  I think it makes the intent that much stronger.

Senior Warden? By what? Six month experience? Lol, that is not much time by any means to make him to the uber-Warden, who knows everything. And supposingily intended by Gaider. How should that have worked with two total newbies? Not that Alistair is experienced as a Warden by any means. Remember, in Ostagar Alistair tells you that he has encountered Darkspawn exactly once and that Duncan kept him mostly out of the line. So while he is still a greenhorn just like you, you as the player need someone who knows a bit about the Grey Warden and what it means to be one. Hence the six month "experience."

Game mechanics are your friend

6 months is still 6 months more than the PC, and that's 6 months under Duncan himself, compared to the 1 day the PC has?  I think the argument stands.

[Kryyptehk]

Axekix wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Axekix, are you annoying on purpose or is it accidental? Because your "men are awesome and manly; women make sandwiches and can't punch" stuff is getting on my nerves.

That's what you got from my post?  Really?

No, I got that from every post you ever posted ever.

Well then, allow me to at least attempt to difuse the situation by saying that's not what I think at all tbh.  And women can definitely punch!  I've been on the recieving end of enough at my gym to know that

Take that for what you will. 

I am definitely not surprised about the fact that you have been punched by a woman before.

[Serissia]

Lady Jess wrote...
Yes, if you initiate the tent with him, then in place of his tent invite you get that confession.

Right after or later on?  I haven't not let him lead in ages.