60083 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Merilsell wrote...

Tis a lovely thread:

Help men everywhere understand the female obsession with Dragon Age's Alistair

Oh dear.  Gaider is in that thread.  Do I even want to embarrass myself by going in there?

Well, you have to at least poke your head in.  A little patronization here, a little mischaracterization there- it's all fuel for the fangirl flames.

[Axekix]

Addai67 wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Merilsell wrote...

Tis a lovely thread:

Help men everywhere understand the female obsession with Dragon Age's Alistair

Oh dear.  Gaider is in that thread.  Do I even want to embarrass myself by going in there?

Well, you have to at least poke your head in.  A little patronization here, a little mischaracterization there- it's all fuel for the fangirl flames.

Skadi coined the term omega male.  Yep, she pretty much wins at everything.

[Miri1984]

Unless some more intelligent people go in there and start Alistair bashing, I don't think it will turn into a hate thread. The calibre of criticisms so far seem to be "duh, Alistair is dumb and the chicks who want him all need... (insert appropriate sexist comment here) and a few ladies have very skillfully shut them down.

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...
 There's always the fact that Wynne never takes the Litany into her possession for some reason so the game alllows your non-mage possibly magic-resistant dwarf to use the spell instead. Fail, game, fail.

Well a litany is not normally a spell, but an incantation.  Sort of like a prayer.  The game makes it into a power because otherwise it would be too [alistair]  awkward  [/alistair].

[Sarah1281]

But you are 100% right about Irving. Because we see all Irving need do was speak up and disagree, and Gregoire would have taken his word. I find it a shame that Uldred was too insane and controlled by demons, he would have made a far better First Enchanter.

I usually cut Irving some slack. He's just been tortured for days on end to the point he needs assistance walking and Uldred - who by this point has some experience with torture - is shocked that he still has the mental fortitude to defy him. He really should have protested but he's just coming off of some heavy-duty torture. Cullen was tortued as well and he's being confined to the Tower instead of being allowed to fight because of it.



Besides, Irving admits that they have a point. He trusted Uldred. Uldred was, in fact, his go-to guy on sniffing out potential blood mages and now it's clear that he was teaching them all along. If Irving couldn't see that in someone he's worked closely with then how is he supposed to be able to realistically tell whether or not the lowliest of apprentices he's probably never spoken to is dabbling in that?



One thing that didn't make sense to me, though, was Wynne's story of what happened. She said Uldred had nearly convinced the mages that siding with Loghain would free the Circle. Wynne says that Loghain quit the field at Ostagar. The mages conclude that retreating must mean that Loghain is lying to them? Why did that factor into their decision at all and, what's more, change people's opinion? Besides, the mages retreated before he did so it's not like she's one to talk.

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...
Lucky. When I got home from college my parents ordered pizza.

My mom sees my arrival as an excuse to go out to eat a lot, so it's a happy medium.

[Herr Uhl]

Axekix wrote...

Skadi coined the term omega male.  Yep, she pretty much wins at everything.

It exists in urban dictionary.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

[quote]Axekix wrote...


But she is a Chantry stooge at her core. She does not want the Circle free from Chantry rule, nor does she see the Circle as a Chantry construct, and does buy into the spirit of alot of Chantry dogma, if not the letter. I know which dialogue you talk about. What she says, yet what she actually does, or how she reacts in alot of ways, is very telling. [/quote]
She is a good natured person.  And honestly, considering the Uldred incident I think she's justified in not feeling comfortable with mages being unrestricted.  A lot of her actions can be justified as just being the wise/compassionate thing to do rather than having chantry based motives. 

She's also not happy with the way things are for the circle and mages in general.  She does want to see changes made, and will try to convince a mage pc to go back after the blight is over and make them.[/quote]

Which furthers my opinion of her being a stooge. The whole incident in the tower really boils down to mages having had enough of the Chantry boot-heel and rebelling. Her "moderate" approach, like Irvings, is pretty much in part largely responsible for the mess.

the fact that she tries to get your mage to return to that oppressive place and change it further cements my opinion. I mean, your PC has been given the chance to be free of the oppresion being a GW, yet she wants you to return to the cage to "change it"? Like that blood mage in the tower said, major changes are not made through strongly worded letters.

What was even more offensive was when she tried to get Anerin to go back.

[quote]
[/quote][quote]Not necessarily.  Flemeth is a bit of a mystery, and perhaps is an abomination, but with Wynne, her mind is completely in tact.  She is bonded with a spirit but it doesn't influence her thoughts or actions as far as the game is concerned.  With abominations there is a struggle for control, usually with the mage losing.
[/quote]

As far as we know. Given Wynne's behavior and moralizing, I often wonder.

[Axekix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

One thing that didn't make sense to me, though, was Wynne's story of what happened. She said Uldred had nearly convinced the mages that siding with Loghain would free the Circle. Wynne says that Loghain quit the field at Ostagar. The mages conclude that retreating must mean that Loghain is lying to them? Why did that factor into their decision at all and, what's more, change people's opinion? Besides, the mages retreated before he did so it's not like she's one to talk.

Well, Wynne blamed Loghain for Cailan's death, point blank.  While it doesn't mean Loghain is lying to them, many probably wouldn't be comfortable supporting someone who they believe practically assasinated the king.

[Merilsell]

I like that description. It sounds in every way superior to the alpha male. So yeah, I'm okay with Alistair being one

[Serissia]

I thought you got kidnapped by Spanish rednecks Skadi! Good to have you back.

[Sarah1281]

Addai67 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
 There's always the fact that Wynne never takes the Litany into her possession for some reason so the game alllows your non-mage possibly magic-resistant dwarf to use the spell instead. Fail, game, fail.

Well a litany is not normally a spell, but an incantation.  Sort of like a prayer.  The game makes it into a power because otherwise it would be too [alistair]  awkward  [/alistair].

PC: Do you know how to use the Litany?
Wynne: It is just a spell, like any other spell. Any mage should be able to recite it.

And apparently any Dalish elf, dwarf, city elf, or human noble as well.

[Axekix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Which furthers my opinion of her being a stooge. The whole incident in the tower really boils down to mages having had enough of the Chantry boot-heel and rebelling. Her "moderate" approach, like Irvings, is pretty much in part largely responsible for the mess.

the fact that she tries to get your mage to return to that oppressive place and change it further cements my opinion. I mean, your PC has been given the chance to be free of the oppresion being a GW, yet she wants you to return to the cage to "change it"? Like that blood mage in the tower said, major changes are not made through strongly worded letters.

What was even more offensive was when she tried to get Anerin to go back.

See I actually agree with Wynne there.  If you think about it, a mage PC is literally the best candidate for revolutionizing the circle that Fereldan has ever seen.  Think about all that he/she has seen and accomplished.  By the end of the game you're not only a hero of Fereldan, you're also a close friend/lover of the king!  You can't have have much better connections than that

I can see where she is coming from.  If anyone could spark a change it would be the warden.  Yes the circle is oppressive now, but her whole argument is that it doesn't have to stay that way, and under a mage PC I'd bet things would change very quickly.

Modifié par Axekix, 09 juin 2010 - 09:15 .

[Axekix]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Skadi coined the term omega male.  Yep, she pretty much wins at everything.

It exists in urban dictionary.

So it does!  That definition actually makes alpha males sound like stupid dicks.  I disapprove.

[Kryyptehk]

Axekix wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Skadi coined the term omega male.  Yep, she pretty much wins at everything.

It exists in urban dictionary.

So it does!  That definition actually makes alpha males sound like stupid dicks.  I disapprove.

....they're not?

[Axekix]

Kryyptehk wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Skadi coined the term omega male.  Yep, she pretty much wins at everything.

It exists in urban dictionary.

So it does!  That definition actually makes alpha males sound like stupid dicks.  I disapprove.

....they're not?

... Of course not!

Alpha males can't be stupid dicks!  They're superior to the rest!  The MPC is a total alpha.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Axekix wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Skadi coined the term omega male.  Yep, she pretty much wins at everything.

It exists in urban dictionary.

So it does!  That definition actually makes alpha males sound like stupid dicks.  I disapprove.

They often are. Maybe not stupid, but definitely a higher than normal capacity for dick-itude. Which is why the position is one with a high turnover. They have their purpose, and certainly history and nature approve of the position quite highly, as do the majority of people. Most people will look up to and aspire to be alphas. 

I, however, am not one of them, and actually find Alpha males poor breeding material.

[tmp7704]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Not really. Nothing is really clear in DA. Demons are spirits the mimic the more base, primal emotions and thoughts of of people: lust, greed, pride, rage, ect. As far as the Chantry is concerned, such things are evil, and thus, spirits that mimic these things must be, by default, evil as well.

But the "higher" emotions and ideas of people, such as faith, valor, justice, ect, can also be quite destructive. Look at Justice in awakenings. His worldview, do to him being a spirit that embodies the concept of justice, is terribly skewed.  Anything in excess can be quite bad.

But this still boils down to how the Chantry views it, since it's them who makes the call on what an abomination is. And as far as the Chantry is concerned, the demons are specifically these spirits which the Chantry calls demons. These guys don't practice subtlety when deaingl with shades of grey -- anything that has as much as potential of being not 100% white is labelled black and treated as such. So if they don't include these 'higher' spirits on their list... well.

[Sarah1281]

tmp7704 wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Not really. Nothing is really clear in DA. Demons are spirits the mimic the more base, primal emotions and thoughts of of people: lust, greed, pride, rage, ect. As far as the Chantry is concerned, such things are evil, and thus, spirits that mimic these things must be, by default, evil as well.

But the "higher" emotions and ideas of people, such as faith, valor, justice, ect, can also be quite destructive. Look at Justice in awakenings. His worldview, do to him being a spirit that embodies the concept of justice, is terribly skewed.  Anything in excess can be quite bad.

But this still boils down to how the Chantry views it, since it's them who makes the call on what an abomination is. And as far as the Chantry is concerned, the demons are specifically these spirits which the Chantry calls demons. These guys don't practice subtlety when deaingl with shades of grey -- anything that has as much as potential of being not 100% white is labelled black and treated as such. So if they don't include these 'higher' spirits on their list... well.

  Are you suggesting the Templars would be fine with knowing that Wynne has a fade spirit inside of her that brought her back from the dead because she is not acting like she is possessed?

[Herr Uhl]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Axekix wrote...

So it does!  That definition actually makes alpha males sound like stupid dicks.  I disapprove.

They often are. Maybe not stupid, but definitely a higher than normal capacity for dick-itude. Which is why the position is one with a high turnover. They have their purpose, and certainly history and nature approve of the position quite highly, as do the majority of people. Most people will look up to and aspire to be alphas. 

I, however, am not one of them, and actually find Alpha males poor breeding material.

And you don't get to make snide remarks being the alpha male.

That would be no fun.

[the_one_54321]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

They often are. Maybe not stupid, but definitely a higher than normal capacity for dick-itude. Which is why the position is one with a high turnover. They have their purpose, and certainly history and nature approve of the position quite highly, as do the majority of people. Most people will look up to and aspire to be alphas.

That's completely wrong. The alpha/beta/omega differentiation in adult males is nothing like the the same differentiation at the high school level. There's a whole string of personality trait interactions that effect alpha/beta/omega status very few of which have anything to do with how "nice" someone is.

[tmp7704]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Are you suggesting the Templars would be fine with knowing that Wynne has a fade spirit inside of her that brought her back from the dead because she is not acting like she is possessed?

I don't think an average templar would believe it's actually fade spirit, they'd probably presume some sort of a ruse from regular demon. If Wynne actually managed to convince someone higher up the Chantry chain it is indeed fade spirit then the reactions could be... interesting.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

the_one_54321 wrote...

That's completely wrong. The alpha/beta/omega differentiation in adult males is nothing like the the same differentiation at the high school level. There's a whole string of personality trait interactions that effect alpha/beta/omega status very few of which have anything to do with how "nice" someone is.

It's not all of it, but it's a good part of it. Rank, by it's very nature, means setting a heierarchy, and requires different levels of ego and belief in such a system, even if subconcious, to be maintained. Even if wolf packs, there is alot more than simple biting/pecking orders. It's politics, the oldest game in the world, on a smaller scale.

High School is perhaps one of the best places to look at pack dynamics, because the young are less subtle about their behavior, and more honest.

[the_one_54321]

Alpha males are not the most physical, nor the most aggressive, nor the most egotistical. Climbing to the top of a hierarchy chain can happen completely without any of that kind of thing.



Take Alistair as a perfect example. You can make him into an alpha if you choose to. That's how he ends up on the throne. Alistair is not any one particular type of hierarchical classification. He can change from one to either of the others depending on how you play the game.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
I, however, am not one of them, and actually find Alpha males poor breeding material.

Didn't you suggest in the other thread that I am an alpha male?