60083 réponses à ce sujet

[Sandtigress]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Take Alistair as a perfect example. You can make him into an alpha if you choose to. That's how he ends up on the throne. Alistair is not any one particular type of hierarchical classification. He can change from one to either of the others depending on how you play the game.

I don't think Alistair being on the throne is a great example of "alpha male" - in all but one specific case it's up to you to put him on the throne.  The conditions upon which Alistair will put himself on the throne are fairly specific and it's pretty easy to not meet them (hardened, not in a love with an HNF, and he battles Loghain).

I do personally think that the Urban Dictionary definition for the omega male describes Alistair fairly well but then we all do have a bit of a pre-conceived notion about his personality, which is admittedly flexible depending on how you play the game.

[Kryyptehk]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
I, however, am not one of them, and actually find Alpha males poor breeding material.

Didn't you suggest in the other thread that I am an alpha male?

Given how whipped you are by Morrigan, I highly doubt it:lol:

I've not met a true Alpha male on these forums. Maybe pretenders, but not actual ones. That's a good thing.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Alpha males are not the most physical, nor the most aggressive, nor the most egotistical. Climbing to the top of a hierarchy chain can happen completely without any of that kind of thing.

Agression isn't just a physical thing, nor is strength. Strong will and agressively pursuing your goals, and getting others to follow your lead and work for you, one way or another, is a major part. Such things require a good dose of ego to implement. Climbing to the top of a heierarchy does not happen without stepping on toes and pushing "weaker" individuals from their spot. When someone takes the lead, it means someone's position has been lessened. This can be physically, socially, morally, ect.

Take Alistair as a perfect example. You can make him into an alpha if you choose to. That's how he ends up on the throne. Alistair is not any one particular type of hierarchical classification. He can change from one to either of the others depending on how you play the game.

Alistair is a prime example of what an Alpha male is not. Even hardened, he is no Alpha. He takes the lead not because of a natural desire or instinct to lead. He does so either to ensure Loghain is punished, or because he finds the idea of Anora ruling troublesome. But even hardened he isn't thrileld by the prospect, nor does he really push for it until Landsmeet, a crisis moment.  Hardening makes him more willing to accept the responsibility, however, getting him there required other people pushing him to that point.

Alphas usually make it to their position because they frequently insist on taking the inititive, something Alistair rarely does. Except when pushed there, or in a crisis point.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Kryyptehk wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
I, however, am not one of them, and actually find Alpha males poor breeding material.

Didn't you suggest in the other thread that I am an alpha male?

Given how whipped you are by Morrigan, I highly doubt it:lol:

I've not met a true Alpha male on these forums. Maybe pretenders, but not actual ones. That's a good thing.

I'll be the first to say that I am not an alpha completely.

I am my own genre of maleness that no one can duplicate. It's called "KnightofPhoenixness".

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 09 juin 2010 - 10:00 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
I, however, am not one of them, and actually find Alpha males poor breeding material.

Didn't you suggest in the other thread that I am an alpha male?

Yes I did. However, you are an exception to alot of rules.

The fact that you are capable of producing The Beard Jr. just proves that.

[the_one_54321]

Sandtigress wrote...

The conditions upon which Alistair will put himself on the throne are fairly specific and it's pretty easy to not meet them (hardened, not in a love with an HNF, and he battles Loghain).

Doesn't matter if it's "likely" or not. All that matters is that that the character is variable enough to have this as an option.



He most definitely starts out as an Omega male. (he practically begs you to lead instead of him) and he can stay that way, become a Beta male, or become an Alpha male. And through all this he's still the same goofy lovable guy that so many woman have gone googly eyed over.



And it's just the same way for real people. The Urban Dictionary definition, while hilarious, is total BS. Alpha, Beta, and Omega males are all equally as capable and likely of being jerks, nice guys, goofy guys, silent types, selfish types, abusive or whatever. The differentiation between the Alpha/Beta/Omega is more about taking initiative, and having an authoritative presence.

[the_one_54321]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Alphas usually make it to their position because they frequently insist on taking the inititive, something Alistair rarely does. Except when pushed there, or in a crisis point.

This is precisely it.



It's taking the initiative. He doesn't start out that way, but if the right paths are taken, he becomes that way. He becomes an Alpha. And it has nothing to do with him being a nice guy or not.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
I, however, am not one of them, and actually find Alpha males poor breeding material.

Didn't you suggest in the other thread that I am an alpha male?

Yes I did. However, you are an exception to alot of rules.

The fact that you are capable of producing The Beard Jr. just proves that.

Why thank you

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
Alphas usually make it to their position because they frequently insist on taking the inititive, something Alistair rarely does. Except when pushed there, or in a crisis point.

This is precisely it.

It's taking the initiative. He doesn't start out that way, but if the right paths are taken, he becomes that way. He becomes an Alpha. And it has nothing to do with him being a nice guy or not.

But he doesn't take the inititive. He is pushed along there. By your PC, if he was hardened, and by Eamon, putting him up as a contender for the throne. Only in a handful of conversations does he express interest and desire. If it was a matter of him taking inititive, once the question of his kingship comes up, he would show alot more inititive well befor Landsmeet. While game mechanics do limit how much he can do, since your PC by default is the lead, there are ways this could have been shown.

But taking the lead, only after pushing him there and having to reach desperate measures to get him to do so, is not being an Alpha. Alphas are pro-active, not re-active.

Alistair is very reactive. Which I think suits him fine. He is much like Maric in that respect.

[Addai]

Screenshot spam because Alistair squee is being overshadowed, again, by discussion of just how wimpy and childish Alistair is (not).  And by Lady Labia.  This cannot stand.

[the_one_54321]

He becomes proactive. The difference is between:



Your PC telling him he should do something and,

Him deciding to do something on his own.



He is reactive throughout the game. He can stay that way all the way through the end of the game. But there is the possibility of him becoming proactive by the end, and deciding to do a couple important things without your input.



And again, the whole point here is that none of the positive or negative personality traits being attributed to Alpha/Beta/Omega are appropriate. All of them can be equally awesome/rotten.

[Sandtigress]

Ser Pouce-a-Landers, where are you? Come help me get rid of my headache!

[cmessaz]

Edit: post removed *is grouchy*

Modifié par cmessaz, 09 juin 2010 - 10:40 .

[Herr Uhl]

cmessaz wrote...

Why is this happening in here again???

What?

[Kryyptehk]

Herr Uhl wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Why is this happening in here again???

What?

People arguing about Alistair, I assume.

[Herr Uhl]

Kryyptehk wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Why is this happening in here again???

What?

People arguing about Alistair, I assume.

In the Alistair thread, inconceivable!

(note the correct spelling)

[cmessaz]

Kryyptehk wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Why is this happening in here again???

What?

People arguing about Alistair, I assume.

I thought there was a thread for this is all. Oh well don't mind me.

[cmessaz]

NM

Modifié par cmessaz, 09 juin 2010 - 10:35 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Kryyptehk wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Why is this happening in here again???

What?

People arguing about Alistair, I assume.

Or us "flirting". Which we didn't do, as far as I know (unless we are so good we dont' actually need to post anything )

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Addai67 wrote...

Screenshot spam because Alistair squee is being overshadowed, again, by discussion of just how wimpy and childish Alistair is (not).  And by Lady Labia.  This cannot stand.

But we aren't discussing him being a wimp or childish. We are debating his various qualities.

Just because I do not think him a dominant or leading figure, does not make him wimpy or childish. Irving is an example of a wimp.

[Kryyptehk]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Why is this happening in here again???

What?

People arguing about Alistair, I assume.

In the Alistair thread, inconceivable!

(note the correct spelling)

Sehr gut!

[Kryyptehk]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Why is this happening in here again???

What?

People arguing about Alistair, I assume.

Or us "flirting". Which we didn't do, as far as I know (unless we are so good we dont' actually need to post anything )

Kryyptehk disapproves -30

[the_one_54321]

Kryyptehk wrote...

People arguing about Alistair, I assume.

I've actually been talking mostly about the misconceptions of Alpha/Beta/Omega, and using Alistair as an example. Not arguing about Alistair.

[Kryyptehk]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...
People arguing about Alistair, I assume.

I've actually been talking mostly about the misconceptions of Alpha/Beta/Omega, and using Alistair as an example. Not arguing about Alistair.

Oh, I know, but I assumed that's what she thought it was. I wasn't harping on you^_^

[MelRedux]

"LA LA LA I"m not listening!!"