60083 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

Sarah1281 wrote...

True but don't you think less divides between the different species (which I'm not saying would be a bad thing so please don't go biting my head off about how elves don't deserve to be treated like they are in-game) would make cross-species pairings more common? 

Yes, but they would also hopefully make stuff like the purges less common, too. Meaning even if though there might be more cross-species relationships costing elves some children, there'd be also a gain in less elves dying routinely due to persecution and/or poor living conditions. Which one would wind up a greater factor is anyone's guess.

Modifié par tmp7704, 14 juin 2010 - 12:32 .

[Kryyptehk]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...
This is evolution.  The fittest survive. Those who aren't die out.  Eventually the human race will go that way too.  That is the way of things, its unavoidable so I don't lament it.  

I was about to say that, but refrained because I didn't want to be accused of being a Social Darwinist.

OMG, Social Darwinism. 1000 Ways to Die made me hate Social Darwinism, without even knowing what it is about. Gah.

[TotoroTori]

Addai67 wrote...


Ugh, tops again?  Alistair is annoyed at all these people trying to deprive him of elven lovin'.

I thought he had a fetish for dwarves

[Sandtigress]

Addai67 wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

There's more ways to support the survival, though. For example an elf who forms relationship with a wealthy shem may be then able to take care and raise muitlple elf childrens/orphans who would otherwise starve. And through such relationship may also contribute to erasing the divides between humans and elves which are as big problem as breeding is.

That's a good point.

Though I like elf theme a lot, personally I wouldn't lament the elves being absorbed into the humans.  What's wrong with that?  Very few ethnic groups remain distinct throughout history.  They intermingle and some lesser groups get absorbed.

I'm not a very good Dalish, am I. 


Ugh, tops again?  Alistair is annoyed at all these people trying to deprive him of elven lovin'.

No, you're not.  You deny the appeal of Ron.   I, on the other hand, am helping the Dalish to rebuild their culture in my fic!  I even gave them their written language back, several generations later! 


And despite my Ron love, I would never deny Alistair some elf lovin'.  :wub:

[mellifera]

Addai67 wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

There's more ways to support the survival, though. For example an elf who forms relationship with a wealthy shem may be then able to take care and raise muitlple elf childrens/orphans who would otherwise starve. And through such relationship may also contribute to erasing the divides between humans and elves which are as big problem as breeding is.

That's a good point.

Though I like elf theme a lot, personally I wouldn't lament the elves being absorbed into the humans.  What's wrong with that?  Very few ethnic groups remain distinct throughout history.  They intermingle and some lesser groups get absorbed.

I'm not a very good Dalish, am I. 


Ugh, tops again?  Alistair is annoyed at all these people trying to deprive him of elven lovin'.

Doing it with humans, singlehandedly eliminating the elven race. All in a day's work!

[Kryyptehk]

Why do people keep saying that it only takes one thousand people to be selfish to destroy the elven culture. I know that the elves aren't exactly at their peak, but human/elven relationships aren't exactly common. Obviously most elves don't feel the way some of our elves do.

[Herr Uhl]

Kryyptehk wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...
This is evolution.  The fittest survive. Those who aren't die out.  Eventually the human race will go that way too.  That is the way of things, its unavoidable so I don't lament it.  

I was about to say that, but refrained because I didn't want to be accused of being a Social Darwinist.

OMG, Social Darwinism. 1000 Ways to Die made me hate Social Darwinism, without even knowing what it is about. Gah.

It's basically applying the same thing that is applied to all other living things to humans. Eugenics went out of style around the fall of the third reich.

[Sarah1281]

Addai67 wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

There's more ways to support the survival, though. For example an elf who forms relationship with a wealthy shem may be then able to take care and raise muitlple elf childrens/orphans who would otherwise starve. And through such relationship may also contribute to erasing the divides between humans and elves which are as big problem as breeding is.

That's a good point.

Though I like elf theme a lot, personally I wouldn't lament the elves being absorbed into the humans.  What's wrong with that?  Very few ethnic groups remain distinct throughout history.  They intermingle and some lesser groups get absorbed.

I'm not a very good Dalish, am I. 

But it's not just a different ethnic group. It's a different species.

And here's my main concern: each elf couple needs to have two children to keep the population stable. Say there are three elves and one of them has elf children, one has a human child, and one never has any children. In order to keep the population stable, the first elf must have two extra children on top of the two they already need just to keep things stable. Unless elves traditionally have many children (which I did not see in-game and Soris' many children are all human) then the elves population is shrinking already.

[Kryyptehk]

yukidama wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

There's more ways to support the survival, though. For example an elf who forms relationship with a wealthy shem may be then able to take care and raise muitlple elf childrens/orphans who would otherwise starve. And through such relationship may also contribute to erasing the divides between humans and elves which are as big problem as breeding is.

That's a good point.

Though I like elf theme a lot, personally I wouldn't lament the elves being absorbed into the humans.  What's wrong with that?  Very few ethnic groups remain distinct throughout history.  They intermingle and some lesser groups get absorbed.

I'm not a very good Dalish, am I. 


Ugh, tops again?  Alistair is annoyed at all these people trying to deprive him of elven lovin'.

Doing it with humans, singlehandedly eliminating the elven race. All in a day's work!

I really like this pic, your elf doesn't look like a twelve year old:lol:

I really, really like this pic....ahem, I'll be in my bunk.

[tmp7704]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

As it is, the divide isn't big enough.

It is big enough for humans to routinely slaughter elves simply because they're elves. How many elf children do you think that costs the population, and what impact does it have on their growth? 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Kryyptehk wrote...

Why do people keep saying that it only takes one thousand people to be selfish to destroy the elven culture. I know that the elves aren't exactly at their peak, but human/elven relationships aren't exactly common. Obviously most elves don't feel the way some of our elves do.

Not one thousand. Thousands.
And the number is a guess, I can't determine that unless I have delicious juicy stats in front of me.

[Sarah1281]

Kryyptehk wrote...

Why do people keep saying that it only takes one thousand people to be selfish to destroy the elven culture. I know that the elves aren't exactly at their peak, but human/elven relationships aren't exactly common. Obviously most elves don't feel the way some of our elves do.

We're not. If only a tiny percentage of elves are okay with having human children because they're so very much in love then it will take many, many generations for it to happen. But it will happen. And the better off elves become the more likely that they will decide to just marry who they love and not worry about the extinction of their people centuries later.

[TotoroTori]

yukidama wrote...


Doing it with humans, singlehandedly eliminating the elven race. All in a day's work!

did Arihel get a new hairstyle?

[Kryyptehk]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Why do people keep saying that it only takes one thousand people to be selfish to destroy the elven culture. I know that the elves aren't exactly at their peak, but human/elven relationships aren't exactly common. Obviously most elves don't feel the way some of our elves do.

Not one thousand. Thousands.
And the number is a guess, I can't determine that unless I have delicious juicy stats in front of me.

Bah, still. Elven-human relations are still not common enough to justify laws and such to prohibit elves and humans from marrying or the like.

[mellifera]

Kryyptehk wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

There's more ways to support the survival, though. For example an elf who forms relationship with a wealthy shem may be then able to take care and raise muitlple elf childrens/orphans who would otherwise starve. And through such relationship may also contribute to erasing the divides between humans and elves which are as big problem as breeding is.

That's a good point.

Though I like elf theme a lot, personally I wouldn't lament the elves being absorbed into the humans.  What's wrong with that?  Very few ethnic groups remain distinct throughout history.  They intermingle and some lesser groups get absorbed.

I'm not a very good Dalish, am I. 


Ugh, tops again?  Alistair is annoyed at all these people trying to deprive him of elven lovin'.

Doing it with humans, singlehandedly eliminating the elven race. All in a day's work!

I really like this pic, your elf doesn't look like a twelve year old:lol:

I really, really like this pic....ahem, I'll be in my bunk.

LOL. Perv. I think the hair makes a difference. I was trying out tmp's hair mod, I'm giving her that style for Awakening.


Also... what about gay elves? 

[Sarah1281]

tmp7704 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

As it is, the divide isn't big enough.

It is big enough for humans to routinely slaughter elves simply because they're elves. How many elf children do you think that costs the population, and what impact does it have on their growth? 

That might slow down the extinction but in the end elves having human children will still contribue to it.

[Sarah1281]

Kryyptehk wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Why do people keep saying that it only takes one thousand people to be selfish to destroy the elven culture. I know that the elves aren't exactly at their peak, but human/elven relationships aren't exactly common. Obviously most elves don't feel the way some of our elves do.

Not one thousand. Thousands.
And the number is a guess, I can't determine that unless I have delicious juicy stats in front of me.

Bah, still. Elven-human relations are still not common enough to justify laws and such to prohibit elves and humans from marrying or the like.

That likely wouldn't be very effective and if it remains uncommon but consistent over the centuries...yeah, the elven race does not have a good long-term future.

[Herr Uhl]

yukidama wrote...

Also... what about gay elves? 

Same thing applies to them as the ones who don't want children. Unless they get children anyways.

[tmp7704]

yukidama wrote...

Doing it with humans, singlehandedly eliminating the elven race. All in a day's work!

It also shows Alistair comitting genocide. He's a bad, bad man.

(ok so i just really quoted that pic because she looks great there

[mellifera]

TotoroTori wrote...

yukidama wrote...


Doing it with humans, singlehandedly eliminating the elven race. All in a day's work!

did Arihel get a new hairstyle?

Not permanently, I was just trying out a tmp's hairstyle. I might keep it for Awakening.

[KnightofPhoenix]

tmp7704 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

As it is, the divide isn't big enough.

It is big enough for humans to routinely slaughter elves simply because they're elves. How many elf children do you think that costs the population, and what impact does it have on their growth? 

I don't have stats. But I think intermixing would be more of a danger.

I will use the Jewish example, even if it's completely different situations. But some similar concepts.
The Jewish community only thrived and survived because it was hated in Europe and all the pogroms, while awful, did not present a long term threat to Jewish survival. In fact, Zionists were getting pretty scared that Europeans started liking Jews prior WW2, precisely because they thought that might weaken them. 

 Of course WW2 then happened, but I do not believe that humans have pure genocidal tendencies in the DA universe. Not yet at least.

So naturally, the elves can't afford to make humans hate them too much, because they will get crushed. But they can't afford to get closer either. As it stands, they do not have the cultural influence to make humans embrace their culture. And they cannot ensure the survival of their genes, as the children will be 100% human.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 14 juin 2010 - 12:42 .

[sylvanaerie]

Sarah1281 wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Wardens take kids? I guess it's because they are tainted already.
Still, I am pretty sure married Wardens, and they exist, don't have their kids taken jut like that.
But if that's the case, then yea the argument isn't really pertinent with a Warden elf.

That's what Fiona says, and it doesn't have to do with the taint because Gaider has said GW babies are not naturally born tainted.

Anyway, the elven race has survived so far, even in close contact with humans like in the alienages.  The natural inclination is to choose a mate similar to oneself and that seems to be enough to keep things going.  There is social pressure, too, but some individuals will always break out.  Our Wardens are already singular, marked individuals, so they're not likely to lead ordinary lives at any level.

It has survived and will likely survive for centuries to come but it is in decline from what it once was and every elf that has in the past chosen not to have children or mate with another species has made the population smaller than it could be.

The same is true of humans and dwarves who don't choose to reproduce and the dwarves need all the babies they can get but the humans don't appear to be having any population problems. Quite the opposite, really.

This is evolution.  The fittest survive. Those who aren't die out.  Eventually the human race will go that way too.  That is the way of things, its unavoidable so I don't lament it.  

That reminds me so much of Saren...

But is it unreasonable that if your race is 'less fit' that you would not want to simply give up and actively contribute to its destruction? 

It isn't active contribution if you CAN'T have kids anyway.  Is the PC supposed to breed the next generation of elves all by herself?

[sylvanaerie]

And what of those elves who are gay? They should ignore what they want and just go try to breed with some other elf cause they have a genetic responsibility?

[TotoroTori]

yukidama wrote...



Not permanently, I was just trying out a tmp's hairstyle. I might keep it for Awakening.

It looks interesting but I can't see too much of it

I may change my PC's hairstyle for awakenings as well (and try to use the toolset even) but I still like my two side pigtails with her, if I could cut the ponytail or untie the ponytail I would change it but I love my side tails for my noble...I hope someone makes hairstyles based off the side tails.

[KnightofPhoenix]

sylvanaerie wrote...

And what of those elves who are gay? They should ignore what they want and just go try to breed with some other elf cause they have a genetic responsibility?

Yes.
If they want their people to survive, they will have to do it.

If they don't care, then oh well. Just don't blame humans if the elves go extinct.