60083 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Jess]

sylvanaerie wrote...

[/b]It isn't active contribution if you CAN'T have kids anyway.  Is the PC supposed to breed the next generation of elves all by herself?

Good point. Like I said before, besides the taint making it difficult with any non gw elf partner, all the physical trauma and strain put on the warden's body through just the blight is quite likely to have left her reproductive organs useless at this point. Just in THIS century all it takes to destroy the functionality of a woman's uterus is a single stab wound or bullet. What do we think the effects of arrows, dragon teeth, ogre grabs, swords, maces, craploads of health and/or lyrium potions, and I'm sure nutritional needs weren't being met all that well either. It's perfectly reasonable to say that fem wardens are likely infertile after all of this in the first place.

[Sarah1281]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Wardens take kids? I guess it's because they are tainted already.
Still, I am pretty sure married Wardens, and they exist, don't have their kids taken jut like that.
But if that's the case, then yea the argument isn't really pertinent with a Warden elf.

That's what Fiona says, and it doesn't have to do with the taint because Gaider has said GW babies are not naturally born tainted.

Anyway, the elven race has survived so far, even in close contact with humans like in the alienages.  The natural inclination is to choose a mate similar to oneself and that seems to be enough to keep things going.  There is social pressure, too, but some individuals will always break out.  Our Wardens are already singular, marked individuals, so they're not likely to lead ordinary lives at any level.

It has survived and will likely survive for centuries to come but it is in decline from what it once was and every elf that has in the past chosen not to have children or mate with another species has made the population smaller than it could be.

The same is true of humans and dwarves who don't choose to reproduce and the dwarves need all the babies they can get but the humans don't appear to be having any population problems. Quite the opposite, really.

This is evolution.  The fittest survive. Those who aren't die out.  Eventually the human race will go that way too.  That is the way of things, its unavoidable so I don't lament it.  

That reminds me so much of Saren...

But is it unreasonable that if your race is 'less fit' that you would not want to simply give up and actively contribute to its destruction? 

It isn't active contribution if you CAN'T have kids anyway.  Is the PC supposed to breed the next generation of elves all by herself?

I wasn't talking about your PC. You said that you don't care if the elves get wiped out because of survival of the fittest. I'm asking if the elves in general are supposed to just accept that their race is less fit because of their adaptive genes and the fact that when they breed with others the other parent's species determines that of the child or if they should try to find a way to prevent it.

[Sarah1281]

All those snotty screenshots make me think I should probably restate this: THIS IS ABOUT THE ELF RACE AS A WHOLE AND NOT JUST ALISTAIR/YOUR ELF.
Honestly, no one is holding either of them personally responsible for this.

[sylvanaerie]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

And what of those elves who are gay? They should ignore what they want and just go try to breed with some other elf cause they have a genetic responsibility?

Yes.
If they want their people to survive, they will have to do it.

If they don't care, then oh well. Just don't blame humans if the elves go extinct.

LOL Have I told you I love you KoP?  

JUst for that...and cause I am not sure you are getting your proper daily dose of Morrigan...



All that beauty and the woman can cook too.

[cmessaz]

Syl- are those her robes unmodded? The look different to me.

[Sarah1281]

sylvanaerie wrote...

And what of those elves who are gay? They should ignore what they want and just go try to breed with some other elf cause they have a genetic responsibility?

Maybe not now but when things get desperate enough that every single birth counts? Probably.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

All those snotty screenshots make me think I should probably restate this: THIS IS ABOUT THE ELF RACE AS A WHOLE AND NOT JUST ALISTAIR/YOUR ELF.
Honestly, no one is holding either of them personally responsible for this.

It is a collective responsability of course. But the collective is made of thinking and rational individuals. So while the threat of extinction is not imminent. When it does become apparent, I think all of them are personally responsable.

Unless of course they are infertile.

[Kryyptehk]

Sarah1281 wrote...

All those snotty screenshots make me think I should probably restate this: THIS IS ABOUT THE ELF RACE AS A WHOLE AND NOT JUST ALISTAIR/YOUR ELF.
Honestly, no one is holding either of them personally responsible for this.

All the snotty screenshots? We've had a few Alistair ones and one with Yuki and Alistair doing the maritals? I think this may be one of the times where you are taking things too personally.

I mean, this is an Alistair Gush Thread.

[Nu-Nu]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Nu-Nu wrote...

Is it really so bad to breed with other races? All that is really disappearing is superficial physical qualites, what matters is the heart and soul. It's up to the parents to maintain the cultural identity and soul of that race but from what I can see one or both parents seem to run for the hills as soon as the child is born. Ignorance and shame is what's going to make them, the history and culture disappear for good, not breeding.

It's not even breeding, it's complete absorption.

Elves mating with humans will produce 100% humans and nothign elve about them. And what soul? Elven culture is in a disastrous state, most of them don't even follow it, but rather worship a human god, and have adopted human customs. That's in addition to embracing human nations as their own.

Honestly, if I had genocidal tendencies towards th elves, I would promote intermixing to the max, knowing full well that the elves will die completely.  

All races have the equal tendacies to be ****s, that means they all have a soul to me, they're all the same deep down.   If the parent can't be bother and the children can't be bothered to teach/learn the traditions then you can't stop them.  Do you think making them stop breeding with humans is really going to save them?  What if they prefer the human culture?  You going to say no, you cannot, you cannot be a part of human life?  You cannot experience anything else apart from your own elven culture and stay in your own box.  You're imprisoning them to their own culture and not giving them a choice.  You might as well say "you're not allowed to have any free will".

Loads of culture come and go, and some mix to create better ones.  There are elves who have a strong sense of tradition, so if elves merge completely with human, I see a group of humans who will keep the tradition alive.  They might not count themselves as true elves but I see them spreading the old beliefs.  Saying it all disappear, is like saying all elves are weak minded.

It's in elven hands what they choose to happen to their race, not humans.  Older generation my ask them to stay but if it's not the will of the younger ones, then you just have to let them go.  Cut the apron strings.

[mellifera]

TotoroTori wrote...

yukidama wrote...



Not permanently, I was just trying out a tmp's hairstyle. I might keep it for Awakening.

It looks interesting but I can't see too much of it

I may change my PC's hairstyle for awakenings as well (and try to use the toolset even) but I still like my two side pigtails with her, if I could cut the ponytail or untie the ponytail I would change it but I love my side tails for my noble...I hope someone makes hairstyles based off the side tails.

I don't really have good pics since I only gave it to her during while I was testing cme's mod :innocent: This is the only one I have where you can see her face, and I only uploaded earlier because her 'WTF?' face made me laugh.

[Sarah1281]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

And what of those elves who are gay? They should ignore what they want and just go try to breed with some other elf cause they have a genetic responsibility?

Yes.
If they want their people to survive, they will have to do it.

If they don't care, then oh well. Just don't blame humans if the elves go extinct.

Yeah, I suppose you can't force elves to care that them following their hearts and being with their own true love and all those other romantic sentiments isn't going to do their race any favors.

[sylvanaerie]

cmessaz wrote...

Syl- are those her robes unmodded? The look different to me.

yea I don't have any Morri mods active atm so thats her vanilla look from the game.

[KnightofPhoenix]

sylvanaerie wrote...
LOL Have I told you I love you KoP?  

JUst for that...and cause I am not sure you are getting your proper daily dose of Morrigan...



All that beauty and the woman can cook too.

I really don't see the point of discussing elves now
Thanks!

And just to make it clear, I am not attacking anyone's romance choices. It can equally be argued that Arcturus forsake his duty towards the nobility and the Chantry by falling madly in love with a witch apostate.

[TotoroTori]

yukidama wrote...

TotoroTori wrote...

yukidama wrote...



Not permanently, I was just trying out a tmp's hairstyle. I might keep it for Awakening.

It looks interesting but I can't see too much of it

I may change my PC's hairstyle for awakenings as well (and try to use the toolset even) but I still like my two side pigtails with her, if I could cut the ponytail or untie the ponytail I would change it but I love my side tails for my noble...I hope someone makes hairstyles based off the side tails.

I don't really have good pics since I only gave it to her during while I was testing cme's mod :innocent: This is the only one I have where you can see her face, and I only uploaded earlier because her 'WTF?' face made me laugh.

crap I still need to go test that!
Yuki you made her look older but it looks good on her....

but I hope someone makes hairstyles based off the sidetails and cuts the back hair or leave it down gives puppy eyes to mod makers

Modifié par TotoroTori, 14 juin 2010 - 12:55 .

[Sarah1281]

Kryyptehk wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

All those snotty screenshots make me think I should probably restate this: THIS IS ABOUT THE ELF RACE AS A WHOLE AND NOT JUST ALISTAIR/YOUR ELF.
Honestly, no one is holding either of them personally responsible for this.

All the snotty screenshots? We've had a few Alistair ones and one with Yuki and Alistair doing the maritals? I think this may be one of the times where you are taking things too personally.

I mean, this is an Alistair Gush Thread.

I'm not. I didn't mean the screenshots in general. I meant the screenshots that had the accompanying comments of:

Doing it with humans, singlehandedly eliminating the elven race. All in a day's work!
It also shows Alistair comitting genocide. He's a bad, bad man.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Nu-Nu wrote...
It's in elven hands what they choose to happen to their race, not humans.  Older generation my ask them to stay but if it's not the will of the younger ones, then you just have to let them go.  Cut the apron strings.

Of course, I said that in my prievious posts. I don't really care much about this. It's their responsability and their choice. If the elves don't want to survive, then oh well.
 
But again, don't blame humans when that happens.

[sylvanaerie]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...
LOL Have I told you I love you KoP?  

JUst for that...and cause I am not sure you are getting your proper daily dose of Morrigan...



All that beauty and the woman can cook too.

I really don't see the point of discussing elves now
Thanks!

And just to make it clear, I am not attacking anyone's romance choices. It can equally be argued that Arcturus forsake his duty towards the nobility and the Chantry by falling madly in love with a witch apostate.

I don't blame you KoP.  I'm a straight woman and I love this pic of her.  The lighting here is really good, she has a softer quality about her thats almost luminescent to me.

[tmp7704]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I don't have stats. But I think intermixing would be more of a danger.

I will use the Jewish example, even if it's completely different situations. But some similar concepts.
The Jewish community only thrived and survived because it was hated in Europe and all the pogroms, while awful, did not present a long term threat to Jewish survival. In fact, Zionists were getting pretty scared that Europeans started liking Jews prior WW2, precisely because they thought that might weaken them. 

I'd think the world itself shows how paranoid these concepts actually were -- consider the Jews today live very much in the way which was supposed to weaken them and threaten their survival.

They did not survive because they were hated and persecuted. They did so despite these hardships. Yes, sticking together was large factor which helped them , but it worked as reaction to threat rather than basic requirement no matter the circumstances.

[Sarah1281]

Nu-Nu wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Nu-Nu wrote...

Is it really so bad to breed with other races? All that is really disappearing is superficial physical qualites, what matters is the heart and soul. It's up to the parents to maintain the cultural identity and soul of that race but from what I can see one or both parents seem to run for the hills as soon as the child is born. Ignorance and shame is what's going to make them, the history and culture disappear for good, not breeding.

It's not even breeding, it's complete absorption.

Elves mating with humans will produce 100% humans and nothign elve about them. And what soul? Elven culture is in a disastrous state, most of them don't even follow it, but rather worship a human god, and have adopted human customs. That's in addition to embracing human nations as their own.

Honestly, if I had genocidal tendencies towards th elves, I would promote intermixing to the max, knowing full well that the elves will die completely.  

All races have the equal tendacies to be ****s, that means they all have a soul to me, they're all the same deep down.   If the parent can't be bother and the children can't be bothered to teach/learn the traditions then you can't stop them.  Do you think making them stop breeding with humans is really going to save them?  What if they prefer the human culture?  You going to say no, you cannot, you cannot be a part of human life?  You cannot experience anything else apart from your own elven culture and stay in your own box.  You're imprisoning them to their own culture and not giving them a choice.  You might as well say "you're not allowed to have any free will".

Loads of culture come and go, and some mix to create better ones.  There are elves who have a strong sense of tradition, so if elves merge completely with human, I see a group of humans who will keep the tradition alive.  They might not count themselves as true elves but I see them spreading the old beliefs.  Saying it all disappear, is like saying all elves are weak minded.

It's in elven hands what they choose to happen to their race, not humans.  Older generation my ask them to stay but if it's not the will of the younger ones, then you just have to let them go.  Cut the apron strings.

Theoretically the elven culture could survive although I doubt it as the Dalish barely know any of it as it is. You don't care that the elven species could go extinct as long as humans remember the names of the elven gods or that they plant a tree over their dead? 

[mellifera]

Heh, I am not really taking it personally at all. I just think that it's not realistic at all to think people would give up their lovers and forgo their sexual orientation or lack of desire to have children because the race could potentially die out a millennium later.



And because I am so snotty,

[Sarah1281]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...
LOL Have I told you I love you KoP?  

JUst for that...and cause I am not sure you are getting your proper daily dose of Morrigan...



All that beauty and the woman can cook too.

I really don't see the point of discussing elves now
Thanks!

And just to make it clear, I am not attacking anyone's romance choices. It can equally be argued that Arcturus forsake his duty towards the nobility and the Chantry by falling madly in love with a witch apostate.

And then he married Anora and became King. And Morrigan's human anyway so it's not like a child he had with her would be of a completely different species to him.

Well...maybe for the Old God...

[Kryyptehk]

yukidama wrote...

Heh, I am not really taking it personally at all. I just think that it's not realistic at all to think people would give up their lovers and forgo their sexual orientation or lack of desire to have children because the race could potentially die out a millennium later.

And because I am so snotty,

Exactly. I'm sure that the caucasian race won't be around in a couple of hundred years, because of the recessive traits and all, but that wouldn't stop me from being with someone who wasn't my race.

But I'm pretty selfish, it's true:P

[Sarah1281]

yukidama wrote...

Heh, I am not really taking it personally at all. I just think that it's not realistic at all to think people would give up their lovers and forgo their sexual orientation or lack of desire to have children because the race could potentially die out a millennium later.

And because I am so snotty,

You don't think it's a bit rude to trivialize someone's concerns about the elven race as a whole going extinct by making snide comments about how Alistair is single-handedly destroying the elf race?

And I'm not saying it's realistic to expect inherently selfish people to give up their human lovers but that doesn't mean that the problem of the elven extinction is going to go away.

[tmp7704]

TotoroTori wrote...

Yuki you made her look older but it looks good on her....

Yup, funny but the hair with bangs seems to have this effect. Especially with the ponytail. When i put it on my CE while testing earlier it was like "whoa, she totally went from her '16 tops' to 'at least 17, maybe even 18' there"

[Sarah1281]

Kryyptehk wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Heh, I am not really taking it personally at all. I just think that it's not realistic at all to think people would give up their lovers and forgo their sexual orientation or lack of desire to have children because the race could potentially die out a millennium later.

And because I am so snotty,

Exactly. I'm sure that the caucasian race won't be around in a couple of hundred years, because of the recessive traits and all, but that wouldn't stop me from being with someone who wasn't my race.

But I'm pretty selfish, it's true:P

That's not the same thing at all. Your genes won't completely disappear if you reproduce with someone of a different race and the elves, unlike the caucasians, are a different species.