60083 réponses à ce sujet

[cmessaz]

And the thread comes to life. All thanks to talk of sex. JK!

[Serissia]

Axekix wrote...
What?!  How?  Morrigan doesn't want to sleep with Alistair any more than he does with her.  She's offering her body up to save both your lives just like he is.  Granted she gets the god baby out of it, but she's not forcing the situation on anyone.

That was Morrigan's agenda from the very start.  Regardless if the PC becomes her friend or enemy.  If you want to believe Morrigan leaves if you deny the DR because she doesn't want to see you die that's your perogative.  Personally, I don't believe it.  The fact she will leave you when she knows the world is essentially at stake says to me that she's frustrated that she came as far as she did only to lose what she truly desired once it was in arm's reach.

[Thor Rand Al]

Axekix wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Axekix wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Because the only reason he did it was to save their lives? It's not like he wanted to do it, and for a person like Alistair he's not just going to be like "LOL YAY I GET TO F*CK MORRIGAN WEE" even if he's not in love with the PC.

Oh I know he hates her, but I can't imagine sex with Morrigan being so traumatic he would need consoling afterwards.  He's a consenting adult after all, and Morrigan is... well,  Morrigan.  In the one (and only) game where I made him do it he seemed fine afterwards.  If I was in his shoes I'd be more concerned about the warden's feelings towards the whole ordeal personally.

But the thing is, it's not just sex. He's making a bastard child and will not be there for it as well. In his mind he's pretty much doing exactly what his father did, the very thing that makes Alistair the insecure person he is, because he wants to save your life. He's doing it because you asked him to, and in some cases he may outright refuse if you tell him the truth. It's not just sex with a hot woman to save all your lives, but sex and making a bastard kid, especially when he values family and all that so highly.

He really didn't seem so terribly affected by it in my game.  He asked Morri a few questions and then dove in.  She does promise that the child won't be his burden and will be well taken care of after all.

Did you really pay attention to his talk when asking him, watch his facial expression, body language.  He is affected n doesn't want to do it.

[Axekix]

LadyDamodred wrote...

I think that is something that would hit closer to home as the years passed for him.  It's Alistair.  He's not going to just forget what he did, and that he did the same damn thing his father did.  While he never comes out and says it, I think he harbors more than a little resentment towards Maric for that.  That he would turn around and do the very same thing...

That is an interesting angle, but I don't know that the situation is the same.  Alistair's mother died and he had no one without Eamon taking him in.  Morrigan if anything will be extreemly protective of her offspring, and says she'll teach it to respect that from whence it came.

He doesn't seem to concerned with finding Morrigan or her child post coronation at any rate.

[Axekix]

Serissia wrote...

Axekix wrote...
What?!  How?  Morrigan doesn't want to sleep with Alistair any more than he does with her.  She's offering her body up to save both your lives just like he is.  Granted she gets the god baby out of it, but she's not forcing the situation on anyone.

That was Morrigan's agenda from the very start.  Regardless if the PC becomes her friend or enemy.  If you want to believe Morrigan leaves if you deny the DR because she doesn't want to see you die that's your perogative.  Personally, I don't believe it.  The fact she will leave you when she knows the world is essentially at stake says to me that she's frustrated that she came as far as she did only to lose what she truly desired once it was in arm's reach.

Maybe, but how does that equate to raping Alistair?

[LadyDamodred]

Axekix wrote...
He really didn't seem so terribly affected by it in my game.  He asked Morri a few questions and then dove in.  She does promise that the child won't be his burden and will be well taken care of after all.

Like a lot in the game, it depends how you as the player and your PC sees it.  I think it comes off a lot worse when he is in love with your PC.

As for "diving in" does he do it with any real joy or enthusiasm?  Doesn't seem like it.  I would be severely insulted if I were inviting a guy into my bed and that was his reaction.

As far as the kid, I don't think it matters how well the child will be cared for.  He is still abandoning his kid.  This is Alistair we're talking about.  I think he has a lot of issues with that kind of thing.

And for the record, do I think he enjoyed himself?  Yes, to an extent.  Going to say it's not the greatest sex he's ever had, but by the time the DR comes around, he's pretty experienced.  He and Morrigan both know what they're doing, and it being enjoyable probably makes it easier.  Maybe not afterwards mentally for him, but in the act itself yes.  I have this sort of written as an incomplete chapter, and I describe it as him seeing the enjoyment of it as the betrayal, not the act itself.

[Sandtigress]

Serissia wrote...

Axekix wrote...
What?!  How?  Morrigan doesn't want to sleep with Alistair any more than he does with her.  She's offering her body up to save both your lives just like he is.  Granted she gets the god baby out of it, but she's not forcing the situation on anyone.

That was Morrigan's agenda from the very start.  Regardless if the PC becomes her friend or enemy.  If you want to believe Morrigan leaves if you deny the DR because she doesn't want to see you die that's your perogative.  Personally, I don't believe it.  The fact she will leave you when she knows the world is essentially at stake says to me that she's frustrated that she came as far as she did only to lose what she truly desired once it was in arm's reach.

It also seems to me that sex doesn't necessarily mean all that much to Morrigan - it's a tool to her and if she falls in love with a male Warden, it's accidental, unintended, and probably even unwanted on her behalf.

Alistair sees it in an entirely different light.

[mellifera]

Axekix wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Axekix wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Because the only reason he did it was to save their lives? It's not like he wanted to do it, and for a person like Alistair he's not just going to be like "LOL YAY I GET TO F*CK MORRIGAN WEE" even if he's not in love with the PC.

Oh I know he hates her, but I can't imagine sex with Morrigan being so traumatic he would need consoling afterwards.  He's a consenting adult after all, and Morrigan is... well,  Morrigan.  In the one (and only) game where I made him do it he seemed fine afterwards.  If I was in his shoes I'd be more concerned about the warden's feelings towards the whole ordeal personally.

But the thing is, it's not just sex. He's making a bastard child and will not be there for it as well. In his mind he's pretty much doing exactly what his father did, the very thing that makes Alistair the insecure person he is, because he wants to save your life. He's doing it because you asked him to, and in some cases he may outright refuse if you tell him the truth. It's not just sex with a hot woman to save all your lives, but sex and making a bastard kid, especially when he values family and all that so highly.

He really didn't seem so terribly affected by it in my game.  He asked Morri a few questions and then dove in.  She does promise that the child won't be his burden and will be well taken care of after all.

Well, it's not exactly like he's granted much time to think about it. The PC persuades him and the DR has to be performed on the evening before the march into battle with a gigantic dragon god to save the damn world. All he has are Morrigan's assurances and the PC's persuasion. It's pretty much either do it or don't right then and there. You don't have time to think about it and you can't change your mind. It's not an easy choice but you're being forced to make it quickly. Plus, after that you pretty much are marching into a huge battle and then it is after the coronation where he's glad you're still alive and can be together. I don't really see where there is much room for him to act extremely bothered by it afterward, but he's not ecstatic either.

[Lady Jess]

Serissia wrote...

Axekix wrote...
What?!  How?  Morrigan doesn't want to sleep with Alistair any more than he does with her.  She's offering her body up to save both your lives just like he is.  Granted she gets the god baby out of it, but she's not forcing the situation on anyone.

That was Morrigan's agenda from the very start.  Regardless if the PC becomes her friend or enemy.  If you want to believe Morrigan leaves if you deny the DR because she doesn't want to see you die that's your perogative.  Personally, I don't believe it.  The fact she will leave you when she knows the world is essentially at stake says to me that she's frustrated that she came as far as she did only to lose what she truly desired once it was in arm's reach.

According to the toolset...

"I will not stand by and watch you waste this opportunity. Die, if you feel it is worthwhile. Or be overshadowed, I care not."

VO: she does car. She is furious and disappointed.

[Avilia]

Serissia wrote...

Axekix wrote...
What?!  How?  Morrigan doesn't want to sleep with Alistair any more than he does with her.  She's offering her body up to save both your lives just like he is.  Granted she gets the god baby out of it, but she's not forcing the situation on anyone.

That was Morrigan's agenda from the very start.  Regardless if the PC becomes her friend or enemy.  If you want to believe Morrigan leaves if you deny the DR because she doesn't want to see you die that's your perogative.  Personally, I don't believe it.  The fact she will leave you when she knows the world is essentially at stake says to me that she's frustrated that she came as far as she did only to lose what she truly desired once it was in arm's reach.

That's always my feeling.  Her reactions if you refuse it seem to be more of frustrated anger than fear for her 'friend'.

My opinon anyways for what its worth

As to my PC and Alistair afterwards -  I'd say he'd feel a bit 'icky' (for want of a better word) and probably need some handholding and comfort.  I never tell him about the baby so that wouldn't be on his mind but as has rightly been said, he takes sex very seriously and he'd be a bit stressed.

That's true whether they're romancing or not by way.  Even as friend I'd want to pat his hand and try to help him feel better.

[Thor Rand Al]

Sandtigress wrote...

Serissia wrote...

Axekix wrote...
What?!  How?  Morrigan doesn't want to sleep with Alistair any more than he does with her.  She's offering her body up to save both your lives just like he is.  Granted she gets the god baby out of it, but she's not forcing the situation on anyone.

That was Morrigan's agenda from the very start.  Regardless if the PC becomes her friend or enemy.  If you want to believe Morrigan leaves if you deny the DR because she doesn't want to see you die that's your perogative.  Personally, I don't believe it.  The fact she will leave you when she knows the world is essentially at stake says to me that she's frustrated that she came as far as she did only to lose what she truly desired once it was in arm's reach.

It also seems to me that sex doesn't necessarily mean all that much to Morrigan - it's a tool to her and if she falls in love with a male Warden, it's accidental, unintended, and probably even unwanted on her behalf.

Alistair sees it in an entirely different light.

Exactly, Alistair embrasses it to were Morrigan pushes it away. 

[Serissia]

Axekix wrote...
Maybe, but how does that equate to raping Alistair?

I said I view it like rape.  There are feelings associated with being raped.  It's of course dependant on the person but there are usually feelings of emptiness, dirtiness, worthlessness, etc.  Considering that Alistair views love and sex as essetially the same thing, I think he would be very upset by the whole endeavour. 

[Axekix]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Axekix wrote...
He really didn't seem so terribly affected by it in my game.  He asked Morri a few questions and then dove in.  She does promise that the child won't be his burden and will be well taken care of after all.

Like a lot in the game, it depends how you as the player and your PC sees it.  I think it comes off a lot worse when he is in love with your PC.

As for "diving in" does he do it with any real joy or enthusiasm?  Doesn't seem like it.  I would be severely insulted if I were inviting a guy into my bed and that was his reaction.

As far as the kid, I don't think it matters how well the child will be cared for.  He is still abandoning his kid.  This is Alistair we're talking about.  I think he has a lot of issues with that kind of thing.

Well in my CEF game his attitude towards Morrigan post coronation seemed to be more "good riddance" than anything.  He didn't seem intent on searching for her at all.  All he said was that he hopes it never comes back around on Fereldan later.

And for the record, do I think he enjoyed himself?  Yes, to an extent.  Going to say it's not the greatest sex he's ever had, but by the time the DR comes around, he's pretty experienced.  He and Morrigan both know what they're doing, and it being enjoyable probably makes it easier.  Maybe not afterwards mentally for him, but in the act itself yes.  I have this sort of written as an incomplete chapter, and I describe it as him seeing the enjoyment of it as the betrayal, not the act itself.

I love your work... but I'm sooo not reading that

[LadyDamodred]

Axekix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

I think that is something that would hit closer to home as the years passed for him.  It's Alistair.  He's not going to just forget what he did, and that he did the same damn thing his father did.  While he never comes out and says it, I think he harbors more than a little resentment towards Maric for that.  That he would turn around and do the very same thing...

That is an interesting angle, but I don't know that the situation is the same.  Alistair's mother died and he had no one without Eamon taking him in.  Morrigan if anything will be extreemly protective of her offspring, and says she'll teach it to respect that from whence it came.

He doesn't seem to concerned with finding Morrigan or her child post coronation at any rate.

I don't expect it to be a concern at the coronation.  But down the road, I think he will think about it.  Might not necessarily discuss it, but I think Alistair internalizes a lot.  Do you really see him never thinkng of child?  Wondering what it is, what it's name is, how it's doing?

[LadyDamodred]

Axekix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Axekix wrote...
He really didn't seem so terribly affected by it in my game.  He asked Morri a few questions and then dove in.  She does promise that the child won't be his burden and will be well taken care of after all.

Like a lot in the game, it depends how you as the player and your PC sees it.  I think it comes off a lot worse when he is in love with your PC.

As for "diving in" does he do it with any real joy or enthusiasm?  Doesn't seem like it.  I would be severely insulted if I were inviting a guy into my bed and that was his reaction.

As far as the kid, I don't think it matters how well the child will be cared for.  He is still abandoning his kid.  This is Alistair we're talking about.  I think he has a lot of issues with that kind of thing.

Well in my CEF game his attitude towards Morrigan post coronation seemed to be more "good riddance" than anything.  He didn't seem intent on searching for her at all.  All he said was that he hopes it never comes back around on Fereldan later.

Good riddance to Morrigan.  And I kinda already addressed the rest of this in my previous post.

Axekix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
And for the record, do I think he enjoyed himself?  Yes, to an extent.  Going to say it's not the greatest sex he's ever had, but by the time the DR comes around, he's pretty experienced.  He and Morrigan both know what they're doing, and it being enjoyable probably makes it easier.  Maybe not afterwards mentally for him, but in the act itself yes.  I have this sort of written as an incomplete chapter, and I describe it as him seeing the enjoyment of it as the betrayal, not the act itself.

I love your work... but I'm sooo not reading that

I did not write Alistair/Morrigan sexytimes.  *twitches*  Before and after?  Yes.  During?  No.

[Axekix]

Serissia wrote...

Axekix wrote...
Maybe, but how does that equate to raping Alistair?

I said I view it like rape.  There are feelings associated with being raped.  It's of course dependant on the person but there are usually feelings of emptiness, dirtiness, worthlessness, etc.  Considering that Alistair views love and sex as essetially the same thing, I think he would be very upset by the whole endeavour. 

He climaxed inside Morrigan.  By his own free will.  And doesn't seem particularly traumatized by it aftwerwards. Uncomfortable, yes, but not emotionally scarred.  I think you guys are actually selling him a little short on his ability to cope with the situation.

I could see it causing problems in the relationship down the line however.

[Axekix]

LadyDamodred wrote...

I don't expect it to be a concern at the coronation.  But down the road, I think he will think about it.  Might not necessarily discuss it, but I think Alistair internalizes a lot.  Do you really see him never thinkng of child?  Wondering what it is, what it's name is, how it's doing?

Oh absolutely.  I thought we were talking about the immediate aftermath though.  Wasn't the question about how the PC and Alistair would relate the night of the DR? 

[Ianthia]

In the story I'm writing it isn't my HNF that convinces Alistair to do it.
He actually says no to her.

I do think with the DR talk before there needed to be more options.
Seriously, she is looking for a way to save the man she loves - I'd be on my knees crying and begging.

After - I imagine it would be awekward - on her side for making him doing something she knows he didn't want to do and on his side for agreeing to it.
But this WAS to hopefully save their lives and I think he *would* to anything to save the life of the woman he loves.

I think they would both be wanting to hide as much of the grief until after - until they knew they were actually going to live and could talk about it.

The last night no - they don't know if they will ive. They wont spend it apart.

Morrigan got 5 minutes I say they got the rest.

Modifié par Ianthia, 21 juin 2010 - 02:57 .

[mellifera]

Morrigan's o-face

[Serissia]

Axekix wrote...
He climaxed inside Morrigan.  By his own free will.  And doesn't seem particularly traumatized by it aftwerwards. Uncomfortable, yes, but not emotionally scarred.  I think you guys are actually selling him a little short on his ability to cope with the situation.

I could see it causing problems in the relationship down the line however.

Keep in mind that the cut scene is the same for Alistair/Morrigan as it is for the PC/Morrigan.  Also, a man climaxing means next to nothing.  My homosexual flatmate often seduces drunk straight men and they climax one way or the other with him.  Just because they were able to get off doesn't mean that they don't regret doing it or feel dirty afterwards.  I know one young man had a nervous breakdown the following day.  No, I'm not about to argue the morality of that situation; I was simply stating it as an example.

Modifié par Serissia, 21 juin 2010 - 02:58 .

[LadyDamodred]

Axekix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

I don't expect it to be a concern at the coronation.  But down the road, I think he will think about it.  Might not necessarily discuss it, but I think Alistair internalizes a lot.  Do you really see him never thinkng of child?  Wondering what it is, what it's name is, how it's doing?

Oh absolutely.  I thought we were talking about the immediate aftermath though.  Wasn't the question about how the PC and Alistair would relate the night of the DR? 

Yes, we are, but I added that on as it's tied into it.  It is a result of the DR that will continue to affect him until he dies.

And like I said, he enjoyed himself.  I do not doubt that.  But you can enjoy things physically and still be messed up emotionally and mentally from it.  I don't think it will be a problem down the road as long as the PC isn't insane and gets mad at him for that.

*shakes head*

I do not understand fic that does that.  You ask him to do it.  You convince him.  And suddenly you're the one who's mad and upset?  Alistair should cold-clock any b!tch that does that.

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 21 juin 2010 - 02:59 .

[Axekix]

Serissia wrote...

Axekix wrote...
He climaxed inside Morrigan.  By his own free will.  And doesn't seem particularly traumatized by it aftwerwards. Uncomfortable, yes, but not emotionally scarred.  I think you guys are actually selling him a little short on his ability to cope with the situation.

I could see it causing problems in the relationship down the line however.

Keep in mind that the cut scene is the same for Alistair/Morrigan as it is for the PC/Morrigan.  Also, a man climaxing means next to nothing.  My homosexual flatmate often seduces drunk straight men and they climax one way or the other with him.  Just because they were able to get off doesn't mean that they don't regret doing it or feel dirty afterwards.

Would he feel dirty?  Maybe.  I really don't see Alistair as some kind of victim here though.  He doesn't want to do it, neither does Morrigan.  Both see there are bigger things at stake (for Morri, the baby/ for Alistair saving his own life and the life of his love).  Both consent for the sake of something greater than that one (hopefully brief) moment of intimacy. 

He's a grown man.  I mean he can make his own decisions, right?

[Axekix]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Axekix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

I don't expect it to be a concern at the coronation.  But down the road, I think he will think about it.  Might not necessarily discuss it, but I think Alistair internalizes a lot.  Do you really see him never thinkng of child?  Wondering what it is, what it's name is, how it's doing?

Oh absolutely.  I thought we were talking about the immediate aftermath though.  Wasn't the question about how the PC and Alistair would relate the night of the DR? 

Yes, we are, but I added that on as it's tied into it.  It is a result of the DR that will continue to affect him until he dies.

And like I said, he enjoyed himself.  I do not doubt that.  But you can enjoy things physically and still be messed up emotionally and mentally from it.  I don't think it will be a problem down the road as long as the PC isn't insane and gets mad at him for that.

*shakes head*

I do not understand fic that does that.  You ask him to do it.  You convince him.  And suddenly you're the one who's mad and upset?  Alistair should cold-clock any b!tch that does that.

Hahaha!  Domestic-violence-Alistair?  That's a new twist

I agree, the PC shouldn't be angry with him at all.  He makes it very clear how he feels.  I could see it creating some insecurity in a femPC down the road though, and maybe resentment in Alistair too... unless they have a really  honest and open relationship where they can talk about all their feelings from that night.

[LadyDamodred]

Axekix wrote...

Serissia wrote...

Axekix wrote...
He climaxed inside Morrigan.  By his own free will.  And doesn't seem particularly traumatized by it aftwerwards. Uncomfortable, yes, but not emotionally scarred.  I think you guys are actually selling him a little short on his ability to cope with the situation.

I could see it causing problems in the relationship down the line however.

Keep in mind that the cut scene is the same for Alistair/Morrigan as it is for the PC/Morrigan.  Also, a man climaxing means next to nothing.  My homosexual flatmate often seduces drunk straight men and they climax one way or the other with him.  Just because they were able to get off doesn't mean that they don't regret doing it or feel dirty afterwards.

Would he feel dirty?  Maybe.  I really don't see Alistair as some kind of victim here though.  He doesn't want to do it, neither does Morrigan.  Both see there are bigger things at stake (for Morri, the baby/ for Alistair saving his own life and the life of his love).  Both consent for the sake of something greater than that one (hopefully brief) moment of intimacy. 

He's a grown man.  I mean he can make his own decisions, right?

Yes, he can.  That does not mean he will feel great, or even okay, about it.  Or that he can just sweep his emotions under the rug.  Look at everything you've seen from Alistair throughout the game.  Does anythign about him strike you as taking this lightly?

Out of curiousity, have you rp'd a character that loved him?  Not just slept with him, but totally played up the whole romance angle?

[Lady Jess]

Axekix wrote...

Hahaha!  Domestic-violence-Alistair?  That's a new twist

I agree, the PC shouldn't be angry with him at all.  He makes it very clear how he feels.  I could see it creating some insecurity in a femPC down the road though, and maybe resentment in Alistair too... unless they have a really  honest and open relationship where they can talk about all their feelings from that night.

I partially agree. I see it as something that comes flying out of her mouth in a fit of indignation or rage. Kasha did it in my fic when he confronted her about Nate. Saying "Did I EVER question you after that night with Morrigan? No!".