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[SurelyForth]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Temporary Kitten says

O HAI THAR!

 Are you fostering?

[SurelyForth]

Kill me now with the double-posting!

Modifié par SurelyForth, 23 juin 2010 - 10:21 .

[Lara Denton]

SurelyForth wrote...

Kill me now with the double-posting!

Hey, you end up posting some pretty screenshots, so there's something good coming out of it. 

[LadyDamodred]

Xandurpein wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...
There is also the fact that, as much as I liked this play through, I never had the same identification with my Beth Cousland as with her male counterpart who married Anora. So whatever I say may seem bland or uninteresting to you.

Identifying with your characters is a huge part of enjoying the play through, so I think we all understand.

Did it change any of your opinions/ideas?  Just out of curiousity.

It didn't change my opinion that much I think. I have been through my phase of being upset with him for leaving at the Landsmeet when I pardoned Loghain on my first run, and then calm down and see other sides of him too. Now I did get to see the scenes when he loves the PC too, and even if it was cute I guess it's not the same if you are a heterosexual man, more likely to watch your own character's boobies in the sex scene...

One thing that did strike me is how very young he seems to me. Sometimes he is awkward and a little shy when he feels out of his depth, the next moment he has no doubts at all about his choice on some very complicated moral issues. That feels like how a very young person might react.

That, right there.  DG has said he's 21, and while that might seem old, he has been extremely sheltered.  It's good to see that ti comes across, and maybe show's where that wasn't played up enough if you're just friends/comrades with him.

[Xandurpein]

SurelyForth wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

There is also the fact that, as much as I liked this play through, I never had the same identification with my Beth Cousland as with her male counterpart who married Anora. So whatever I say may seem bland or uninteresting to you.

Maybe not! I think you did a really great job on making Michael and Anora's relationship believable and interesting, and I know that you're a very thoughtful player. Most Alistair/Cousland stories are really romance focused, it would be cool to hear the opinion of someone who would be thinking outside of that box. 

As I wrote above. The feeling I got from my play is that Alistair acts like a very young person. If he is in love with the PC, then really this is probably his first big love. So he and the PC go through this big adventure, fall head over heels in love and than have a fairy tale wedding as heroes. How can normal life possibly top that? 

How many times does your first big love end up being the one you are mature enough to handle well? How many times does falling in love and getting married young end up in a divorce and a more mature second relationship when you get a little older?

If I was to ever write a FCousland/Alistair fic it would probably be about the inherent problems in such a fairy tale romance. Two young persons fall in love, but then they wake up to discover that being King and Queen is loads of work and duty and very little romance. Can they overcome that and learn to appreciate reality together, or will it fall apart when it's no longer just an adventure and a rosy fantasy?

[LadyDamodred]

SurelyForth wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Temporary Kitten says

O HAI THAR!

 Are you fostering?

For a couple days until she can be delivered to her new mom.  She has the disturbing habit of throwing herself off things.

[Xandurpein]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...
There is also the fact that, as much as I liked this play through, I never had the same identification with my Beth Cousland as with her male counterpart who married Anora. So whatever I say may seem bland or uninteresting to you.

Identifying with your characters is a huge part of enjoying the play through, so I think we all understand.

Did it change any of your opinions/ideas?  Just out of curiousity.

It didn't change my opinion that much I think. I have been through my phase of being upset with him for leaving at the Landsmeet when I pardoned Loghain on my first run, and then calm down and see other sides of him too. Now I did get to see the scenes when he loves the PC too, and even if it was cute I guess it's not the same if you are a heterosexual man, more likely to watch your own character's boobies in the sex scene...

One thing that did strike me is how very young he seems to me. Sometimes he is awkward and a little shy when he feels out of his depth, the next moment he has no doubts at all about his choice on some very complicated moral issues. That feels like how a very young person might react.

That, right there.  DG has said he's 21, and while that might seem old, he has been extremely sheltered.  It's good to see that ti comes across, and maybe show's where that wasn't played up enough if you're just friends/comrades with him.

I think the reason it didn't come across as much before, is because when he is my male PC's best friend I tend to let my PC take charge and let him follow. Maybe it shows more when I play a female PC and wait for him to act in the romance. Or maybe it's just that I paid more attention to him in this play than before.

[Miri1984]

laradenton wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

Sarah, awww, maybe I threw her by asking for Anders. We shall see.

Question about mods: I want to make a male mage with Morrigan's eyes (a model for her son with Alistair) and wanted to know if the mods on nexus work for both males and females? Can you get Morrigan's eye colour with a male PC?

Yes, you should be able to as the colours are shared by males and females.

Thanks! I shall download the mod then. I'm killing for models to inspire me to write this fic - I need to see Alistair with Morrigan's eyes! Will post him here when I finish him .

[SurelyForth]

Xandurpein wrote...
As I wrote above. The feeling I got from my play is that Alistair acts like a very young person. If he is in love with the PC, then really this is probably his first big love. So he and the PC go through this big adventure, fall head over heels in love and than have a fairy tale wedding as heroes. How can normal life possibly top that? 

How many times does your first big love end up being the one you are mature enough to handle well? How many times does falling in love and getting married young end up in a divorce and a more mature second relationship when you get a little older?

If I was to ever write a FCousland/Alistair fic it would probably be about the inherent problems in such a fairy tale romance. Two young persons fall in love, but then they wake up to discover that being King and Queen is loads of work and duty and very little romance. Can they overcome that and learn to appreciate reality together, or will it fall apart when it's no longer just an adventure and a rosy fantasy?

See, that would be an interesting story. My HNF doesn't marry him because she sees reality being an issue. She loves him, but she doesn't want their relationship to be a job. It's selfish of her, because it gives her freedom that he doesn't have (she remains his Chancellor, but it's something she can stop doing when she wants) but she's trying to be realistic about how they might feel about one another in a year, or five, or ten. 

[LadyDamodred]

Xandurpein wrote...
I think the reason it didn't come across as much before, is because when he is my male PC's best friend I tend to let my PC take charge and let him follow. Maybe it shows more when I play a female PC and wait for him to act in the romance. Or maybe it's just that I paid more attention to him in this play than before.

That's also more than possible.  I find I like letting him lead in the romance because I enjoy seeing that side of him.

Xandurpein wrote...
If I was to ever write a FCousland/Alistair fic it would probably be about the inherent problems in such a fairy tale romance. Two young persons fall in love, but then they wake up to discover that being King and Queen is loads of work and duty and very little romance. Can they overcome that and learn to appreciate reality together, or will it fall apart when it's no longer just an adventure and a rosy fantasy?

That's an interesting angle, and probably farily realistic.  I'm a romantic at heart, though, and think they'll be able to work it out.  I do think that their relationship would change from the early lovey-dovey be-all-and-end-all type of deal, but that's not a bad thing.  It's probably why I'm one of the few that doesn't mind when his dialogue changes to "Something you need, my dear?" from "Your desire is my command." because I think it highlights the foundation of an actual relationship--where they're comfortable with each other and romance has moved on past the original "first love and passion" aspect.

[Lady Jess]

Xandurpein wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

There is also the fact that, as much as I liked this play through, I never had the same identification with my Beth Cousland as with her male counterpart who married Anora. So whatever I say may seem bland or uninteresting to you.

Maybe not! I think you did a really great job on making Michael and Anora's relationship believable and interesting, and I know that you're a very thoughtful player. Most Alistair/Cousland stories are really romance focused, it would be cool to hear the opinion of someone who would be thinking outside of that box. 

As I wrote above. The feeling I got from my play is that Alistair acts like a very young person. If he is in love with the PC, then really this is probably his first big love. So he and the PC go through this big adventure, fall head over heels in love and than have a fairy tale wedding as heroes. How can normal life possibly top that? 

How many times does your first big love end up being the one you are mature enough to handle well? How many times does falling in love and getting married young end up in a divorce and a more mature second relationship when you get a little older?

If I was to ever write a FCousland/Alistair fic it would probably be about the inherent problems in such a fairy tale romance. Two young persons fall in love, but then they wake up to discover that being King and Queen is loads of work and duty and very little romance. Can they overcome that and learn to appreciate reality together, or will it fall apart when it's no longer just an adventure and a rosy fantasy?

Exactly once for me! 17 years and counting:P And we're 36 so...we started pretty young.

[Sandtigress]

LadyDamodred wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Temporary Kitten says

O HAI THAR!

 Are you fostering?

For a couple days until she can be delivered to her new mom.  She has the disturbing habit of throwing herself off things.

I said it on twitter a few days ago, but I'll repeat it for posterity here.

Someone once told me that kittens were like ninjas with the sensibility of a soda ******.

That's a really cute little ninja you've got though. 

[Addai]

Xandurpein wrote...

If I was to ever write a FCousland/Alistair fic it would probably be about the inherent problems in such a fairy tale romance. Two young persons fall in love, but then they wake up to discover that being King and Queen is loads of work and duty and very little romance. Can they overcome that and learn to appreciate reality together, or will it fall apart when it's no longer just an adventure and a rosy fantasy?

I don't know that I've ever played an Alistair romance as a rosy fantasy or adventure.  It's pretty grim, and it's not like Alistair doesn't know this.  This is what I don't get about the criticism of the "Princess Cous Cous" variety.  Maybe it's because there are people who do play HNF/Alistair that way and they are out and about in the fanfiction with their rosy outlook, but it's no fairytale.  For instance, my HNF started her marriage on the basis of a moral compromise (the DR) that haunts both of them.  Their capital and much of the south is ravaged and no doubt bittereness still lingers from the civil war.  Etc. etc.

So I think it only has to be "fairytale" if you make it so.  To me the game shows the darker side pretty well.

Modifié par Addai67, 23 juin 2010 - 10:47 .

[Lady Jess]

Addai67 wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

If I was to ever write a FCousland/Alistair fic it would probably be about the inherent problems in such a fairy tale romance. Two young persons fall in love, but then they wake up to discover that being King and Queen is loads of work and duty and very little romance. Can they overcome that and learn to appreciate reality together, or will it fall apart when it's no longer just an adventure and a rosy fantasy?

I don't know that I've ever played an Alistair romance as a rosy fantasy or adventure.  It's pretty grim, and it's not like Alistair doesn't know this.  This is what I don't get about the criticism of the "Princess Cous Cous" variety.  Maybe it's because there are people who do play HNF/Alistair that way and they are out and about in the fanfiction with their rosy outlook, but it's no fairytale.  For instance, my HNF started her marriage on the basis of a moral compromise (the DR) that haunts both of them.  Their capital and much of the south is ravaged and no doubt bittereness still lingers from the civil war.  Etc. etc.

So I think it only has to be "fairytale" if you make it so.  To me the game shows the darker side pretty well.

I do similar. I see it, as I experienced my own. They're young, both possibly in their first real relationship. They get married, and then start the whole learning to BE married process. I got the hang of it around year 9...lol

[Sbri]

LadyDamodred wrote...

That, right there.  DG has said he's 21, and while that might seem old, he has been extremely sheltered.  It's good to see that ti comes across, and maybe show's where that wasn't played up enough if you're just friends/comrades with him.

emphasis mine

Maybe my age is showing, but from where I'm sitting, 21 IS young. There are even studies that show how there are still parts of the brain that are developing, even at that age. Everyone is different, and there are some 20 year olds that are far more mature then some in their 40s.  But hearing that Alistair is 21 explains a whole lot in my book.

[Serissia]

Xandurpein wrote...
How many times does your first big love end up being the one you are mature enough to handle well? How many times does falling in love and getting married young end up in a divorce and a more mature second relationship when you get a little older?

Personally I think that's because a lot of young people can't tell the difference between lust and love.  After the initial butterflies in the stomach and burning loins fade away there isn't much left if the said people have nothing in common.

[Lady Jess]

Serissia wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...
How many times does your first big love end up being the one you are mature enough to handle well? How many times does falling in love and getting married young end up in a divorce and a more mature second relationship when you get a little older?

Personally I think that's because a lot of young people can't tell the difference between lust and love.  After the initial butterflies in the stomach and burning loins fade away there isn't much left if the said people have nothing in common.

If they completely go away, it wasn't love to begin with. Somewhere between lust and love is infatuation, which by itself wears off and leaves you staring at each other going WTF if there's no , like you said..things in common. That's not to say infatuation doesn't stick around once love comes to town of course.

[LadyDamodred]

Sbri wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

That, right there.  DG has said he's 21, and while that might seem old, he has been extremely sheltered.  It's good to see that ti comes across, and maybe show's where that wasn't played up enough if you're just friends/comrades with him.

emphasis mine

Maybe my age is showing, but from where I'm sitting, 21 IS young. There are even studies that show how there are still parts of the brain that are developing, even at that age. Everyone is different, and there are some 20 year olds that are far more mature then some in their 40s.  But hearing that Alistair is 21 explains a whole lot in my book.

I'm not disagreeing with you.  But I think in a medieval setting, everyone grows up a little faster.Alistair does seem young, even for his age.  And yes, it does explain a lot.

[Xandurpein]

Addai67 wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

If I was to ever write a FCousland/Alistair fic it would probably be about the inherent problems in such a fairy tale romance. Two young persons fall in love, but then they wake up to discover that being King and Queen is loads of work and duty and very little romance. Can they overcome that and learn to appreciate reality together, or will it fall apart when it's no longer just an adventure and a rosy fantasy?

I don't know that I've ever played an Alistair romance as a rosy fantasy or adventure.  It's pretty grim, and it's not like Alistair doesn't know this.  This is what I don't get about the criticism of the "Princess Cous Cous" variety.  Maybe it's because there are people who do play HNF/Alistair that way and they are out and about in the fanfiction with their rosy outlook, but it's no fairytale.  For instance, my HNF started her marriage on the basis of a moral compromise (the DR) that haunts both of them.  Their capital and much of the south is ravaged and no doubt bittereness still lingers from the civil war.  Etc. etc.

So I think it only has to be "fairytale" if you make it so.  To me the game shows the darker side pretty well.

There are so many angles to this. And every one is entitled to write their own story. If I came across as implying that the Alistair romance is somehow unrealistically rosy, that is not what I meant.

I was merely asked a question about how I feel about writing a story myself. If I wrote a story, I think the DR may be something that maybe FCousland could supress or ignore when she is newly in love, but it would come back to haunt her later. That's how I see my PC react.

I like writing about people maturing. That's what I tried to do in my Anora/MCousland story. But please don't take my suggestion how I would write a Alistair/FCousland story as a claim to somehow having a blueprint for it would always be.

[Lady Jess]

Xandurpein wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

If I was to ever write a FCousland/Alistair fic it would probably be about the inherent problems in such a fairy tale romance. Two young persons fall in love, but then they wake up to discover that being King and Queen is loads of work and duty and very little romance. Can they overcome that and learn to appreciate reality together, or will it fall apart when it's no longer just an adventure and a rosy fantasy?

I don't know that I've ever played an Alistair romance as a rosy fantasy or adventure.  It's pretty grim, and it's not like Alistair doesn't know this.  This is what I don't get about the criticism of the "Princess Cous Cous" variety.  Maybe it's because there are people who do play HNF/Alistair that way and they are out and about in the fanfiction with their rosy outlook, but it's no fairytale.  For instance, my HNF started her marriage on the basis of a moral compromise (the DR) that haunts both of them.  Their capital and much of the south is ravaged and no doubt bittereness still lingers from the civil war.  Etc. etc.

So I think it only has to be "fairytale" if you make it so.  To me the game shows the darker side pretty well.

There are so many angles to this. And every one is entitled to write their own story. If I came across as implying that the Alistair romance is somehow unrealistically rosy, that is not what I meant.

I was merely asked a question about how I feel about writing a story myself. If I wrote a story, I think the DR may be something that maybe FCousland could supress or ignore when she is newly in love, but it would come back to haunt her later. That's how I see my PC react.

I like writing about people maturing. That's what I tried to do in my Anora/MCousland story. But please don't take my suggestion how I would write a Alistair/FCousland story as a claim to somehow having a blueprint for it would always be.

There's ALOT of learning involved in a marriage, especially if something like the DR is involved. That would definitely haunt my cousland. She'd never blame him, but she'd definitely blame herself (and possibly even transfer it TO him). That's actually the story I would LIKE to read. Them growing together, navigating marriage post blight. Cuz you know even in the best relationships there are little things that can drive each other nuts. Socks on the floor, snoring, leaving the seat up, Maker's breath rurn off that joust and LISTEN to me! And of course...god babies.

[Xandurpein]

Lady Jess wrote...

Serissia wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...
How many times does your first big love end up being the one you are mature enough to handle well? How many times does falling in love and getting married young end up in a divorce and a more mature second relationship when you get a little older?

Personally I think that's because a lot of young people can't tell the difference between lust and love.  After the initial butterflies in the stomach and burning loins fade away there isn't much left if the said people have nothing in common.

If they completely go away, it wasn't love to begin with. Somewhere between lust and love is infatuation, which by itself wears off and leaves you staring at each other going WTF if there's no , like you said..things in common. That's not to say infatuation doesn't stick around once love comes to town of course.

I agree. I try to differentiate between "love" and "in love". To me falling in love is more infatuation than love. When you are infatuated with someone it can be an all consuming feeling, that doesn't need to have with sex at all to do. Rather the opposite in fact. Typical for infatuation is that you often don't know the object of desire very well. You see something that catches your attention and then you fill in the blanks with your own hopes and dreams projected onto the person.

[Addai]

LadyDamodred wrote...

I'm not disagreeing with you.  But I think in a medieval setting, everyone grows up a little faster.Alistair does seem young, even for his age.  And yes, it does explain a lot.

I don't know that I'd say that.  Perhaps because I don't equate being sheltered with being immature.  The monastic life teaches discipline and maturity of its own kind, an inner experience if you will.  Alistair mentions this when he talks about his templar training.  It's not worldly experience, but it's not like his life would have been completely cut off, either.  He participated in tourneys, saw a Harrowing, so it's not like he was completely locked away.  Plus he also had a more varied childhood as ward of a noble than would, say, the city elf PC.

But maybe I'm not following you and you're thinking of something else.

[Lady Jess]

Xandurpein wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

Serissia wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...
How many times does your first big love end up being the one you are mature enough to handle well? How many times does falling in love and getting married young end up in a divorce and a more mature second relationship when you get a little older?

Personally I think that's because a lot of young people can't tell the difference between lust and love.  After the initial butterflies in the stomach and burning loins fade away there isn't much left if the said people have nothing in common.

If they completely go away, it wasn't love to begin with. Somewhere between lust and love is infatuation, which by itself wears off and leaves you staring at each other going WTF if there's no , like you said..things in common. That's not to say infatuation doesn't stick around once love comes to town of course.

I agree. I try to differentiate between "love" and "in love". To me falling in love is more infatuation than love. When you are infatuated with someone it can be an all consuming feeling, that doesn't need to have with sex at all to do. Rather the opposite in fact. Typical for infatuation is that you often don't know the object of desire very well. You see something that catches your attention and then you fill in the blanks with your own hopes and dreams projected onto the person.

Yes. And infatuation and love can continue together very well, whereas lust...tends to fade with time in general.

[LadyDamodred]

Addai67 wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

I'm not disagreeing with you.  But I think in a medieval setting, everyone grows up a little faster.Alistair does seem young, even for his age.  And yes, it does explain a lot.

I don't know that I'd say that.  Perhaps because I don't equate being sheltered with being immature.  The monastic life teaches discipline and maturity of its own kind, an inner experience if you will.  Alistair mentions this when he talks about his templar training.  It's not worldly experience, but it's not like his life would have been completely cut off, either.  He participated in tourneys, saw a Harrowing, so it's not like he was completely locked away.  Plus he also had a more varied childhood as ward of a noble than would, say, the city elf PC.

But maybe I'm not following you and you're thinking of something else.

He's not immature, not even a little.  *searches for how to explain what she means*

What I mean by sheltered or young, is that for all the experience he has had, he very much sees the world through veil of innocence and trust.  He is shocked at the depths to which people can sink.  When you harden him, that's basically what you're helping him to understand.  It's a sort of "growing up" that most people his age have probably already been through.

I think we probably think similarly to this, and it's just word choices that might be throwing us off.

[Lady Jess]

Daveth is confused...