60083 réponses à ce sujet

[cmessaz]

Ok, so now I am trying to understand why ppl think that is ok, I guess. It just seems like the game portrays Loghain as the enemy and then it's sort of contradicted with RTO.

[Sarah1281]

Jowan allowing Connor to get ahold of books detailing Blood Magic rituals and also most likely misdosing made it a bit more lethal than he had originally planned.

Wait, what? Why on Earth would Jowan risk everyone finding out about him by giving Connor those books even though he was still a novice at magic? And Jowan didn't exactly take his possessions with him when he left so I doubt he even HAD books on the subject. And we don't know that it was more lethal than it should have been (Jowan may have already been given the poison and not needed to create it as that's less risky) , just that it looked bad to Connor so the demon stabalized him.

[Addai]

yukidama wrote...

The leggings look baggy? Where? Only time I see baggy is when you put on medium armor.

I do think the "slimming black" looks really good on the HF figure.  Not that the HF figure is not already slim, but it just looks classy without making them seem scrawny like my poor elves.

Between the proportions fix, Warden garments, and underwear fix... I'm betting Alistair would share his stash of favorite cheese with tmp and buy him a beer for the fact that his elven chicks have got booty now.

Got booty



Got booty here, too




Actually, seeing as how tmp's mods produce many more trips to the tent, Alistair owes tmp a LOTof beer.

Modifié par Addai67, 24 juin 2010 - 08:34 .

[Lady Jess]

yukidama wrote...

The leggings look baggy? Where? Only time I see baggy is when you put on medium armor.

Yep...on the female version it looks like tights

Not a criticism, just something I noticed in all the armors that bug me.

Modifié par Lady Jess, 24 juin 2010 - 08:33 .

[Sarah1281]

cmessaz wrote...

Ok, so now I am trying to understand why ppl think that is ok, I guess. It just seems like the game portrays Loghain as the enemy and then it's sort of contradicted with RTO.

Well in the game he is the enemy and RtO doesn't really justify most of his decisions but it shows that he does not believe that he could have won that battle and showed more evidence about how bad things were there. All RtO could acquit him of is the regicide as it indicates that he only left Cailan to his fate when the only other choice was sacrificing his army to save one man during a Blight darkspawn incursion and with a massive amount of Orlesian troops at the border. Even if that is true and Loghain can't be held accountable for Cailan's death then it doesn't change his actions during the game any, it just justifies the first atrocity we saw him commit.

[cmessaz]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Jowan allowing Connor to get ahold of books detailing Blood Magic rituals and also most likely misdosing made it a bit more lethal than he had originally planned.

Wait, what? Why on Earth would Jowan risk everyone finding out about him by giving Connor those books even though he was still a novice at magic? And Jowan didn't exactly take his possessions with him when he left so I doubt he even HAD books on the subject. And we don't know that it was more lethal than it should have been (Jowan may have already been given the poison and not needed to create it as that's less risky) , just that it looked bad to Connor so the demon stabalized him.

Yeah I think that seems likely.

[sylvanaerie]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Jowan allowing Connor to get ahold of books detailing Blood Magic rituals and also most likely misdosing made it a bit more lethal than he had originally planned.

Wait, what? Why on Earth would Jowan risk everyone finding out about him by giving Connor those books even though he was still a novice at magic? And Jowan didn't exactly take his possessions with him when he left so I doubt he even HAD books on the subject. And we don't know that it was more lethal than it should have been (Jowan may have already been given the poison and not needed to create it as that's less risky) , just that it looked bad to Connor so the demon stabalized him.

If you talk to Connor before getting rid of the demon he says he got into Jowan's books, 'the ones he won't let me see" kind of thing.  And in his dreams the demon came (guess he inadvertantly tore the veil trying to fix daddy ala Mickey Mouse magic).

[Lady Jess]

Addai67 wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

I like the black unisex best. I think it's the underleggings that bug me. They get baggy on unisex, I feel like my bloomers are hangin out.  On the newest black one that doesn't show as bad. Whats really awesome about the black one Seri made, is that the daggers from the Leliana rose ...(song of the rose I think) set are darker metal and match beautifully. I'm hoping someone comes out with a set of daggers in a similar tone with the voice of Velvet skin.

yes, my rogues collect weapons like leliana collects shoes >.<

Ha ha, Eren stole the Forgotten daggers from Alistair who usually gets one plus a Forgotten longsword in early game because they go so well with the black Shadow Armor.  I haven't heard of those rose daggers??

http://www.dragonage...ile.php?id=1184

It's a Leliana specific set, ut I use the upgrade wands requirement removal to equip the daggers.  The forgotten daggers have a nice skin, I just dislike the shape.

[Swoo]

cmessaz wrote...

Ok, so now I am trying to understand why ppl think that is ok, I guess. It just seems like the game portrays Loghain as the enemy and then it's sort of contradicted with RTO.

Well, it's a judgement call on hindsight that you truly don't know the answer too. If Loghain charges and gets wiped out, everyone cries 'Loghain is supposed to be this genius general, couldn't he have seen the battle was lost and tried to save as many men as possible?'

As to Eamon, the plan was never to kill him beforehand, Loghain just wanted him bedridden and sick until after Ostagar when he could either be dealt with or simply allow the Ferelden-Flu to "pass". And Loghain had zero idea about Howe's actions with the Cousland's. Rendon Howe saw an opportunity with all the nobles eyes diverted to the south, an army of boogeyman fall-guys on everyones lips, and the perfect time to get revenge for what he saw as an almost divine right against the Cousland's who were 'holding his family back'. The first Loghain knew or heard about it is when the King tells him after hearing it from a Cousland survivor. Later on, Loghain doesn't have enough support to dare breaking ties with Howe without risking seeing himself and Anora both deposed by the rapidly empowered Howe.

I don't think Loghain was a good guy or a bad guy, he was just a guy. He made some hard calls, and many of them turned out to be the bad ones. He was certainly played off as the sterotypical badguy at the very start, so I found it very surprising to learn otherwise much later on.

[cmessaz]

Sarah1281 wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Ok, so now I am trying to understand why ppl think that is ok, I guess. It just seems like the game portrays Loghain as the enemy and then it's sort of contradicted with RTO.

Well in the game he is the enemy and RtO doesn't really justify most of his decisions but it shows that he does not believe that he could have won that battle and showed more evidence about how bad things were there. All RtO could acquit him of is the regicide as it indicates that he only left Cailan to his fate when the only other choice was sacrificing his army to save one man during a Blight darkspawn incursion and with a massive amount of Orlesian troops at the border. Even if that is true and Loghain can't be held accountable for Cailan's death then it doesn't change his actions during the game any, it just justifies the first atrocity we saw him commit.

I guess that makes sense. Still  the battle may have gone better if the orlesians had actually been allowed to come. I guess there are many ppl at fault in Ostagar,. Like Syl said, boring and strategy don't belong in the same sentence during war.

[Swoo]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Jowan allowing Connor to get ahold of books detailing Blood Magic rituals and also most likely misdosing made it a bit more lethal than he had originally planned.

Wait, what? Why on Earth would Jowan risk everyone finding out about him by giving Connor those books even though he was still a novice at magic? And Jowan didn't exactly take his possessions with him when he left so I doubt he even HAD books on the subject. And we don't know that it was more lethal than it should have been (Jowan may have already been given the poison and not needed to create it as that's less risky) , just that it looked bad to Connor so the demon stabalized him.

Jowan had books on Blood Magic in his room unprotected, and Connor had seen them but was told he wasn't allowed to read them. The moment he was thrown in a jail cell, Connor went into his room and started to becoming the Lil'est Blood Mage in Ferelden and totally muck the whole situation up.

Connor will tell you this and a lot more if you fight your way to the second floor of the castle and talk to him before heading off to the Circle tower to get help to enter the Fade.

Edit: It was said a mis-dosing was very likely in the other thread, and knowing Jowan that will come as no surprise to anyone.

Modifié par Swoo, 24 juin 2010 - 08:38 .

[mellifera]

Addai67 wrote...

yukidama wrote...

The leggings look baggy? Where? Only time I see baggy is when you put on medium armor.

I do think the "slimming black" looks really good on the HF figure.  Not that the HF figure is not already slim, but it just looks classy without making them seem scrawny like my poor elves.

Between the proportions fix, Warden garments, and underwear fix... I'm betting Alistair would share his stash of favorite cheese with tmp and buy him a beer for the fact that his elven chicks have got booty now.

Got booty

Got booty here, too

Actually, seeing as how tmp's mods produce many more trips to the tent, Alistair owes tmp a LOTof beer.

Sometimes it can be a bit much, especially from unflattering angles.

[sylvanaerie]

cmessaz wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Ok, so now I am trying to understand why ppl think that is ok, I guess. It just seems like the game portrays Loghain as the enemy and then it's sort of contradicted with RTO.

Well in the game he is the enemy and RtO doesn't really justify most of his decisions but it shows that he does not believe that he could have won that battle and showed more evidence about how bad things were there. All RtO could acquit him of is the regicide as it indicates that he only left Cailan to his fate when the only other choice was sacrificing his army to save one man during a Blight darkspawn incursion and with a massive amount of Orlesian troops at the border. Even if that is true and Loghain can't be held accountable for Cailan's death then it doesn't change his actions during the game any, it just justifies the first atrocity we saw him commit.

I guess that makes sense. Still  the battle may have gone better if the orlesians had actually been allowed to come. I guess there are many ppl at fault in Ostagar,. Like Syl said, boring and strategy don't belong in the same sentence during war.

yep two words you never want to hear strung in the same sentence together. 

[Addai]

cmessaz wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

OK, I know this is probably going to start a thing but I am confused about something and would like answers. Now personal feelings, but I honestly want to know. If Loghain did not plan to abandon Cailen, why did he poison Arl Eamon? This whole thing makes no sense to me.

As I understand it, Gaider said that he wanted Eamon sidelined though not killed until he could determine whether or not Cailan was a serious threat.  Since Eamon was a royalist with an Orlesian wife and so powerful, he would have made serious trouble.  If Cailan backed down on his plans to invite in Orlesian chevaliers, Eamon could later be revived.  I'm sure if Eamon had died, they just would have blamed it on the maleficar.

Jowan was such an idiot to think he wasn't going to end up the fall guy one way or another.

So, how is this ok? I guess thats what I don't understand more than anything.

IMO it's not.    I've always argued that Loghain could be executed for this alone.  But, playing devil's advocate, he saw Cailan as a threat to Ferelden and thus his allies were, too.  It was potentially for the greater good.

This is why it strains belief to think he hadn't also planned something for the Couslands.  Gaider said he wasn't in on Howe's plan, though, so we have to accept that.

Modifié par Addai67, 24 juin 2010 - 08:39 .

[Sarah1281]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Jowan allowing Connor to get ahold of books detailing Blood Magic rituals and also most likely misdosing made it a bit more lethal than he had originally planned.

Wait, what? Why on Earth would Jowan risk everyone finding out about him by giving Connor those books even though he was still a novice at magic? And Jowan didn't exactly take his possessions with him when he left so I doubt he even HAD books on the subject. And we don't know that it was more lethal than it should have been (Jowan may have already been given the poison and not needed to create it as that's less risky) , just that it looked bad to Connor so the demon stabalized him.

If you talk to Connor before getting rid of the demon he says he got into Jowan's books, 'the ones he won't let me see" kind of thing.  And in his dreams the demon came (guess he inadvertantly tore the veil trying to fix daddy ala Mickey Mouse magic).

Wait, so Jowan actually brought books on blood magic into the home of his patron that he was poisoning which was located right across the lake from the Tower and which had a Chantry and Templars in the very village? 

[Lady Jess]

Gilsa wrote...

I like the unisex by far. It seemed to cheapen my female characters when their chests were exposed during battle and I found myself giving my rogues a few extra points in STR so they could wear medium armor instead, just to cover up better. Jarvia looks like a tough broad now. She comes across as Beraht's equal rather than some tart he's porking on the side.

I've never understood the dalish armor with the midriff exposed like that, but I figured it was part of their culture or they're so agile that less armor is better for movement, maybe. The men were still fully dressed though. How about in the next game, the men keep the leather skirt and chest straps and forgo the tunic? =p

I like the way you think...lol

I do like the unisex, especially the black.  I imagine lots of places to hide daggers and poisons and such. I think it's just eye memory or something. I, unlike everyone else have only been using them for the last few days. And I like it on some armors better than others. Black is my favorite, and Warden Commander Light.  For Warden Commander Leather I use the female version. I figure sometimes on Tryna the griffons and buxomness serve a purpose...hahaha

[Lady Jess]

Addai67 wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

OK, I know this is probably going to start a thing but I am confused about something and would like answers. Now personal feelings, but I honestly want to know. If Loghain did not plan to abandon Cailen, why did he poison Arl Eamon? This whole thing makes no sense to me.

As I understand it, Gaider said that he wanted Eamon sidelined though not killed until he could determine whether or not Cailan was a serious threat.  Since Eamon was a royalist with an Orlesian wife and so powerful, he would have made serious trouble.  If Cailan backed down on his plans to invite in Orlesian chevaliers, Eamon could later be revived.  I'm sure if Eamon had died, they just would have blamed it on the maleficar.

Jowan was such an idiot to think he wasn't going to end up the fall guy one way or another.

So, how is this ok? I guess thats what I don't understand more than anything.

IMO it's not.    I've always argued that Loghain could be executed for this alone.  But, playing devil's advocate, he saw Cailan as a threat to Ferelden and thus his allies were, too.  It was potentially for the greater good.

This is why it strains belief to think he hadn't also planned something for the Couslands.  Gaider said he wasn't in on Howe's plan, though, so we have to accept that.

In today's world, the level of paranoid delusions Loghain was under would get him not guilty by reason of mental defect, and put in an institution.

[cmessaz]

Sarah1281 wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Jowan allowing Connor to get ahold of books detailing Blood Magic rituals and also most likely misdosing made it a bit more lethal than he had originally planned.

Wait, what? Why on Earth would Jowan risk everyone finding out about him by giving Connor those books even though he was still a novice at magic? And Jowan didn't exactly take his possessions with him when he left so I doubt he even HAD books on the subject. And we don't know that it was more lethal than it should have been (Jowan may have already been given the poison and not needed to create it as that's less risky) , just that it looked bad to Connor so the demon stabalized him.

If you talk to Connor before getting rid of the demon he says he got into Jowan's books, 'the ones he won't let me see" kind of thing.  And in his dreams the demon came (guess he inadvertantly tore the veil trying to fix daddy ala Mickey Mouse magic).

Wait, so Jowan actually brought books on blood magic into the home of his patron that he was poisoning which was located right across the lake from the Tower and which had a Chantry and Templars in the very village? 

I hate Jowan. I want to knee him in the balls, b!tch slap Lily and tell Irving to STFU. What a damn moron.

[Addai]

Does Connor actually say that they were books on blood magic?  As I recall, he just says they were books on magic that Jowan didn't want him to read.  I interpreted it that they were too advanced for him, not that they were necessarily about blood magic.

[sylvanaerie]

Sarah1281 wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Jowan allowing Connor to get ahold of books detailing Blood Magic rituals and also most likely misdosing made it a bit more lethal than he had originally planned.

Wait, what? Why on Earth would Jowan risk everyone finding out about him by giving Connor those books even though he was still a novice at magic? And Jowan didn't exactly take his possessions with him when he left so I doubt he even HAD books on the subject. And we don't know that it was more lethal than it should have been (Jowan may have already been given the poison and not needed to create it as that's less risky) , just that it looked bad to Connor so the demon stabalized him.

If you talk to Connor before getting rid of the demon he says he got into Jowan's books, 'the ones he won't let me see" kind of thing.  And in his dreams the demon came (guess he inadvertantly tore the veil trying to fix daddy ala Mickey Mouse magic).

Wait, so Jowan actually brought books on blood magic into the home of his patron that he was poisoning which was located right across the lake from the Tower and which had a Chantry and Templars in the very village? 

Its not clarified if its "blood magic" or just magic Connor isnt' ready to learn yet (as in he was trying to do something beyond his scope) He tells PC that after father got sick and jowan was imprisoned he snuck into Jowan's room and tried to read his books (the ones Jowan had forbidden him to look at).  He never says "Blood magic" but it may have been.  HOW Jowan got those from Irvings office and THEN escaped out the tower (from a door that supposedly takes 4 grown men to open) is beyond me but *shrug* there are a lot of things that don't make sense to me in the game.

[Sarah1281]

sylvanaerie wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Ok, so now I am trying to understand why ppl think that is ok, I guess. It just seems like the game portrays Loghain as the enemy and then it's sort of contradicted with RTO.

Well in the game he is the enemy and RtO doesn't really justify most of his decisions but it shows that he does not believe that he could have won that battle and showed more evidence about how bad things were there. All RtO could acquit him of is the regicide as it indicates that he only left Cailan to his fate when the only other choice was sacrificing his army to save one man during a Blight darkspawn incursion and with a massive amount of Orlesian troops at the border. Even if that is true and Loghain can't be held accountable for Cailan's death then it doesn't change his actions during the game any, it just justifies the first atrocity we saw him commit.

I guess that makes sense. Still  the battle may have gone better if the orlesians had actually been allowed to come. I guess there are many ppl at fault in Ostagar,. Like Syl said, boring and strategy don't belong in the same sentence during war.

yep two words you never want to hear strung in the same sentence together. 

Addai67 wrote...
This is why it strains belief to think he hadn't also planned something for the Couslands.  Gaider said he wasn't in on Howe's plan, though, so we have to accept that.

Well, you might but your Wardens don't...

[cmessaz]

@sarah that is AWSOME. can i stick it in my folder?

[Swoo]

Sarah1281 wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Jowan allowing Connor to get ahold of books detailing Blood Magic rituals and also most likely misdosing made it a bit more lethal than he had originally planned.

Wait, what? Why on Earth would Jowan risk everyone finding out about him by giving Connor those books even though he was still a novice at magic? And Jowan didn't exactly take his possessions with him when he left so I doubt he even HAD books on the subject. And we don't know that it was more lethal than it should have been (Jowan may have already been given the poison and not needed to create it as that's less risky) , just that it looked bad to Connor so the demon stabalized him.

If you talk to Connor before getting rid of the demon he says he got into Jowan's books, 'the ones he won't let me see" kind of thing.  And in his dreams the demon came (guess he inadvertantly tore the veil trying to fix daddy ala Mickey Mouse magic).

Wait, so Jowan actually brought books on blood magic into the home of his patron that he was poisoning which was located right across the lake from the Tower and which had a Chantry and Templars in the very village? 

Yep, and combined with the notes and information you get in the Circle Tower, it becomes very clear how he and many other apprentices were duped by Uldred into learning Blood Magic to be used (some unwittingly, others less so) for a Coup the moment Uldred saw an opening.

[Addai]

yukidama wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

yukidama wrote...

The leggings look baggy? Where? Only time I see baggy is when you put on medium armor.

I do think the "slimming black" looks really good on the HF figure.  Not that the HF figure is not already slim, but it just looks classy without making them seem scrawny like my poor elves.

Between the proportions fix, Warden garments, and underwear fix... I'm betting Alistair would share his stash of favorite cheese with tmp and buy him a beer for the fact that his elven chicks have got booty now.

Got booty

Got booty here, too

Actually, seeing as how tmp's mods produce many more trips to the tent, Alistair owes tmp a LOTof beer.

Sometimes it can be a bit much, especially from unflattering angles.

You could kill the archdemon with that booty!

[Sarah1281]

cmessaz wrote...

@sarah that is AWSOME. can i stick it in my folder?

Feel free.