60083 réponses à ce sujet

[Sandtigress]

Addai67 wrote...

I have a question... How do people generally give Alistair his mother's amulet from a roleplay standpoint? I find it a little weird to just take it out of Eamon's desk.  Oh hello, let me just root through here and help myself...

I've been holding out on it because I was trying not to get his approval too high, but now that he's at 100 that's not an issue and I think I'll save it for after we finish the Ashes quest. I wonder if Eamon would give it to him then.  I guess that would assume, however, that Eamon intended to give it back to him.

I suppose that if you give it to him right when you find it, you could also roleplay that you and Alistair find it together, that he sees it and recognizes it.

I RP'ed it that my girl noticed it on the desk the first time through Redcliffe and it caught her attention because of Alistair's story.  She asks Eamon about it after they wake him up, and he confirms that it belonged to Alistair's mother.

lol Basically, I needed a gift for my little Satinalia gift giving story I wrote on that day, and that worked out really well.

[Bratt1204]

Addai67 wrote...

I have a question... How do people generally give Alistair his mother's amulet from a roleplay standpoint? I find it a little weird to just take it out of Eamon's desk.  Oh hello, let me just root through here and help myself...

I've been holding out on it because I was trying not to get his approval too high, but now that he's at 100 that's not an issue and I think I'll save it for after we finish the Ashes quest. I wonder if Eamon would give it to him then.  I guess that would assume, however, that Eamon intended to give it back to him.

I suppose that if you give it to him right when you find it, you could also roleplay that you and Alistair find it together, that he sees it and recognizes it.


Edit for top of page:  Alistair cops a feel

I usually give him his Mother amulet at Lake Calenhad docks, just the two of us in our party. I walk us down to the the water's edge and have Alistair with his back towards the Circle Tower, so when I speak to him the Tower is in the background. I find the scenery just idyllic and it always takes my breath away. I will take a screenshot of the view on my next playthrough, to me it is just amazing. 

[Serissia]

@LadyDamodred
I understand what you're saying. The symbolism of the amulet wasn't lost to me.

I just think if Alistair is Fiona's son than Eamon picked the worst lie to tell him. He could of easily told Alistair that his mother died when he was very young of Pneumonia but instead he told him that she died in childbirth. No doubt conveniently using the poor maid that died in his retinue as a cover story.

Now Alistair thinks he killed his mother during childbirth; knowing that fact effects someone like Zevran (which we clearly see it does by his tone) it's fairly safe to assume it also effects Alistair. When Alistair finally meets Goldanna she is quick to throw that fact in his face.

That leaves Alistair with a mother whom died during his birth, a father that never cared for him and a sister that is only interested in him for what he might be able to do for her in the future. That's a horrid lie to continue on propagating.

I truly hope that if DA2 is based around our current wardens and if Alistair is Fiona's son that it is made known to him. Though I honestly don't see how he could be anything but. After reading The Stolen Throne and The Calling Maric hardly seems the type to just force himself on a serving girl, especially a human one considering his attractions to elves.

Modifié par Serissia, 18 avril 2010 - 02:56 .

[SurelyForth]

LadyDamodred wrote...

@Surely:  I approve of angry, drunk Alistair.  It was my first fic, and I had to give it a happy ending, though I had to go all AU to do that.  If you don't, more props to you.  If you can't give them a happy ending, can you at least give them closure?

Oh, there will be closure for sure. I can't do an ending that's unhappy and ambiguous.

Amulet Talk: One of my small pleasures in this game is to give Alistair the amulet and pretend like it's vendor trash. His response is so , and it fits into my love of all the casual jerk moments you can have. Of course, then I have to reload because Ali deserves better than a casual jerk.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 18 avril 2010 - 02:55 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

I like your theory Serissia. Poor, poor Alistair (and no I am not being sarcastic, I genuinely feel sorry for the guy).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 avril 2010 - 02:56 .

[Bratt1204]

Serissia wrote...

@LadyDamodred
I understand what you're saying. The symbolism of the amulet wasn't lost to me.

I just think if Alistair is Fiona's son than Eamon picked the worst lie to tell him. He could of easily told Alistair that his mother died when he was very young of Pneumonia but instead he told him that she died in childbirth. No doubt conveniently using the poor maid that died in his retinue as a cover story.

Now Alistair thinks he killed his mother during childbirth; knowing that fact effects someone like Zevran (which we clearly see it does by his tone) it's fairly safe to assume it also effects Alistair. When Alistair finally meets Goldanna she is quick to throw that fact in his face.

That leaves Alistair with a mother whom died during his birth, a father that never cared for him and a sister that is only interested in him for what he might be able to do for her in the future. That's a horrid lie to continue on propagating.

I truly hope that if DA2 is based around our current wardens and if Alistair is Fiona's son that it is made known to him. Though I honestly don't see how he could be anything but. After reading The Stolen Throne and The Calling Maric hardly seems the type to just force himself on a serving girl, especially a human one considering his attractions to elves.

Agree.

[Merilsell]

Which leaves me even as XBox gamer in the need of an slap Arl Eamon mod.



Sodding nughumper, he is *shakes fists*

[LadyDamodred]

Serissia wrote...

@LadyDamodred
I understand what you're saying. The symbolism of the amulet wasn't lost to me.

I just think if Alistair is Fiona's son than Eamon picked the worst lie to tell him. He could of easily told Alistair that his mother died when he was very young of Pneumonia but instead he told him that she died in childbirth. No doubt conveniently using the poor maid that died in his retinue as a cover story.

Now Alistair thinks he killed his mother during childbirth; knowing that fact effects someone like Zevran (which we clearly see it does by his tone) it's fairly safe to assume it also effects Alistair. When Alistair finally meets Goldanna she is quick to throw that fact in his face.

That leaves Alistair with a mother whom died during his birth, a father that never cared for him and a sister that is only interested in him for what he might be able to do for her in the future. That's a horrid lie to continue on propagating.

I truly hope that if DA2 is based around our current wardens and if Alistair is Fiona's son that it is made known to him. Though I honestly don't see how he could be anything but. After reasing The Stolen Throne and The Calling Maric hardly seems the type to just force himself on a serving girl, especially a human one considering his attractions to elves.

Well, here's the thing, if the maid did actually die in childbirth or shortly thereafter because of it, to lie about that would be bad.  It is an unnessecary lie; one that is harder to make sure is kept by everyone in the castle and one that is harder to conceal in the long run.  It might be crueler to tell Alistair that rather than her dying of anotehr illness, but it makes sense from Eamon's perspective.  We know about the lie through meta-gaming, so we have to remember how it looksfrom an in-game perspective.

And Alistair doesn't believe that Maric forced himself on the maid.  Goldana is the only one that says that because she is betetr and it helps her cope better if it's everyone else's fault her mother was taken from her.

[Serissia]

I can't shake my hatred of Eamon though. While it's true he is an ardent royalist that doesn't out weigh the fact he is a manipulative self serving lair that has terrible taste in women.

If Alistair is Fiona's son than Maric's only connection to him would have been through Duncan for many years. Basically until whoever let the cat out of the bag that Alistair was Maric's son. Personally I can see Eamon being that person. He's the type that would make that kind of subtle power play.

Modifié par Serissia, 18 avril 2010 - 03:06 .

[LadyDamodred]

Merilsell wrote...

Which leaves me even as XBox gamer in the need of an slap Arl Eamon mod.

Sodding nughumper, he is *shakes fists*

Ugh, I'm, vacillating on Eamon now.  The toolset is making this tough.  Some of his lines clearly show he is fond of Alistair and regrets some of what happened.  On the other hand, he is still a politician.  I'm wondering if he had to see, and treat, Alistair in two very seperate ways.  One way was to firmly establish that Alistair was a commoner and that he is not fit to rule or even think about it.  That had to be re-enforced, as cruel as it seems.  And then you have the things like Eamon taking Alistair places with him and buying him toys.  One could say that doing those things was to simply assuge Eamon's guilt, but I think he genuinely likes Alistair.  Alistair himself is fond of Eamon, and I don't think it's a Stockholm Syndrome type of thing.  He lived a fairly normal life, and so he most likely wouldn't think so highly of Eamon is Eamon hadn't shown him at least some honest affection.

And then there's Eamon wanting to make Alistair king.  He wouldn't do it if he had another option because he knows how Alistair was raised.  But when you talk to him about it, he admits that Alistair really is a good man, and that he will be fine as king once he settles in.  I think he is being truthful.  *ponders more*

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 18 avril 2010 - 03:08 .

[cmessaz]

Good mornin, folks! I am working on the bugs right now and adding the kisses. Will let everyone know when I update.

[cmessaz]

LadyDamodred wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

I need someone who did not perform the ritual, alistair is king, and he will die. I need to know what lines appear after he stops you from killing the archdemon.

cmessaz: You have that save of mine.  The 'Alistair Dies' save is no DR, I didn't say anything about the final blow and he will die.

I used your char a lot last night. The problem was my game was crashing when Mr. Archi was about 3 quarters dead. It was quite frustrating.  Problem has been pretty bad for me since upgrading to the newest patch.

Modifié par cmessaz, 18 avril 2010 - 03:15 .

[Serissia]

I don't think it's a case of Stockholm Syndrome, it's just a case of a small child looking up to the only person that seemed to care about him. Eamon was the only person in his life at that time, of course he's going to revere the man. Unfortunately Alistair also tries to see the best in anyone willing to show even the slightest inclination of affection towards him. Look at the way he latched onto Duncan. The two had only been traveling together for six months prior to Ostagar.

[LadyDamodred]

cmessaz wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

I need someone who did not perform the ritual, alistair is king, and he will die. I need to know what lines appear after he stops you from killing the archdemon.

cmessaz: You have that save of mine.  The 'Alistair Dies' save is no DR, I didn't say anything about the final blow and he will die.

I used your char a lot last night. The problem was my game was crashing when Mr. Archi was about 3 quarters dead. It was quite frustrating.  Problem has been pretty bad for me since upgrading to the newest patch.

Hoorays!  Just wanted to make sure you knew. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
And then there's Eamon wanting to make Alistair king.  He wouldn't do it if he had another option because he knows how Alistair was raised.  But when you talk to him about it, he admits that Alistair really is a good man, and that he will be fine as king once he settles in.  I think he is being truthful.  *ponders more*

He will be fine as long as Eamon is there with him.

Although to be fair to Eammon, he doesn't really flip out if Alistair marries Anora or the Warden, or if the Warden becomes chancellor. He also doesn't flip out if Alsitair is killed because Eamon forced the idea of being king into the boy's head.

Still, Eamon is definately manipulative and in someways very inconsiderate. Talking about Alsitair in 3rd person while he is standing right next to you is not only inpolite, but inconsiderate. He really doesn't make a good argument about Alistair being a good king when he doesn't even let him speak for himself.

And not to mention the complete hypocracy of violently challenging the landsmeet and calling his men to arms when they vote against him, while still having the audacity to claim that he cares about Ferelden's traditions and Loghain does not (incidently, Loghain doesn't call his men to arms when the landsmeet votes against him, rather he chooses to fight a duel, which is his right in Ferelden politics).

[LadyDamodred]

Serissia wrote...

I don't think it's a case of Stockholm Syndrome, it's just a case of a small child looking up to the only person that seemed to care about him. Eamon was the only person in his life at that time, of course he's going to revere the man. Unfortunately Alistair also tries to see the best in anyone willing to show even the slightest inclination of affection towards him. Look at the way he latched onto Duncan. The two had only been traveling together for six months prior to Ostagar.

I know, I see your point.  It's just that the more I think about it, the more murkier the issue becomes.  I think my position is settling into more a half-way point.  Eamon did what Maric requested, but probably went too far in trying to do what was "right" in that situation.  But I think he honestly liked Alistair, and so tried to even out the cruelities.  :/

And six months can be a very long time, especially when you are around each other a lot.  I always got the impression Duncan was fond of Alistair, and the toolset confirmed it.  A lot of his VO direction says 'like a father to a son'.  If someone genuinely likes you, it doesn't take very long to come to care about them.

[cmessaz]

LadyDamodred wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

I need someone who did not perform the ritual, alistair is king, and he will die. I need to know what lines appear after he stops you from killing the archdemon.

cmessaz: You have that save of mine.  The 'Alistair Dies' save is no DR, I didn't say anything about the final blow and he will die.

I used your char a lot last night. The problem was my game was crashing when Mr. Archi was about 3 quarters dead. It was quite frustrating.  Problem has been pretty bad for me since upgrading to the newest patch.

Hoorays!  Just wanted to make sure you knew. 

By the way, the new kiss on top of Fort Drakon does work  So if anyone wants to get into the toolset and check out which of his lines should and shouln't lead to a bye bye kiss, and post your thoughts in the group, I will see about adding more in the next update today.

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
And then there's Eamon wanting to make Alistair king.  He wouldn't do it if he had another option because he knows how Alistair was raised.  But when you talk to him about it, he admits that Alistair really is a good man, and that he will be fine as king once he settles in.  I think he is being truthful.  *ponders more*

He will be fine as long as Eamon is there with him.

Although to be fair to Eammon, he doesn't really flip out if Alistair marries Anora or the Warden, or if the Warden becomes chancellor. He also doesn't flip out if Alsitair is killed because Eamon forced the idea of being king into the boy's head.

Still, Eamon is definately manipulative and in someways very inconsiderate. Talking about Alsitair in 3rd person while he is standing right next to you is not only inpolite, but inconsiderate. He really doesn't make a good argument about Alistair being a good king when he doesn't even let him speak for himself.

And not to mention the complete hypocracy of violently challenging the landsmeet and calling his men to arms when they vote against him, while still having the audacity to claim that he cares about Ferelden's traditions and Loghain does not (incidently, Loghain doesn't call his men to arms when the landsmeet votes against him, rather he chooses to fight a duel, which is his right in Ferelden politics).

Hypocrisy?  I don't think so.  Loghain responds to the challenge of his power by ordering executions.  1) That's not his right and 2) that also goes against the tradtion of the Landsmeet.  The point was to end the civil war.  Each side put forth a candidate and let the Landsmeet choose.  Was Loghain also going to execute anyone else who stood with us?  We certainly didn't hold it against those who stood with him when we won.  *shrugs*

Like I said, I think we're dealing with two Eamons.  The one who has to be the politician and the one who wanted to do right by Alistair.  They don't always reconcile with each other.

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 18 avril 2010 - 03:28 .

[Serissia]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
He will be fine as long as Eamon is there with him.

Although to be fair to Eammon, he doesn't really flip out if Alistair marries Anora or the Warden, or if the Warden becomes chancellor. He also doesn't flip out if Alsitair is killed because Eamon forced the idea of being king into the boy's head.

Still, Eamon is definately manipulative and in someways very inconsiderate. Talking about Alsitair in 3rd person while he is standing right next to you is not only inpolite, but inconsiderate. He really doesn't make a good argument about Alistair being a good king when he doesn't even let him speak for himself.

And not to mention the complete hypocracy of violently challenging the landsmeet and calling his men to arms when they vote against him, while still having the audacity to claim that he cares about Ferelden's traditions and Loghain does not (incidently, Loghain doesn't call his men to arms when the landsmeet votes against him, rather he chooses to fight a duel, which is his right in Ferelden politics).

If you goad Loghain he does actually call his men to arms.  I've only done it once on accident.  I think it's rather tactless so, I try to avoid doing it.  I'd rather have Alistair fight Loghain in a duel. 

You bring up an interesting point that I haven't thought upon previously.  I never spare Loghain, I truly feel that he would understand the situation brought upon himself and look at Alistair running him through to be no different than when Maric ran Katriel through.  He committed an attrocity that was inexcusable regardless of his intentions.

I can believe that Eamon would stand by silently and watch Alistair be excuted.  He would know that if he spoke up at this point that he could easily end up suffering the same fate. 

Modifié par Serissia, 18 avril 2010 - 03:29 .

[Addai]

Serissia wrote...

I'm not sure how I feel about Eamon and the amulet situation. If Alistair is actually Fiona's son than the whole amulet fiasco is a farce, Fiona never owned an amulet of Andraste. If that is the case than the amulet is little more than a prop to cement the lie that was told to Alistair concerning his heritage.

We don't know that she didn't.  Alistair describes it as being very old and unique in Ferelden, not something a servant girl is likely to own.

[cmessaz]

Seeing the following that Eamon has, I don't think it would have been wise of Anora to execute Eamon. I can't believe he doesn't say "I'm sorry, Alistair" or SOMETHING. Even if he doesn't stand up for his life.

[Serissia]

I'm not questioning Duncan's love for Alistair. I mean even at the end of The Calling he seems rather fond of the baby. The baby was the product of his two closest friends after all.

I just think that it's a perfect example of the fact that Alistair is much like Maric at the beging of The Stolen Throne, perfectly willing to accept the affections of someone that he hasn't known for very long. The same example can be made of the PC. Alistair stands by the PC through some pretty intense situations (like defiling the Urn then killing Wynne and Leliana). I know this is in part that he needs to be there for the story to progress but still...

Modifié par Serissia, 18 avril 2010 - 03:34 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
Hypocrisy?  I don't think so.  Loghain responds to the challenge of his power by ordering executions.  1) That's not his right and 2) that also goes against the tradtion of the Landsmeet.  The point was to end the civil war.  Each side put forth a candidate and let the Landsmeet choose.  Was Loghain also going to execute anyone else who stood with us?  We certainly didn't hold it against those who stood with him when we won.  *shrugs*

You don't know if Loghain would have executed those who stood with us. And the Landmseet did not reject Lgohain's execution, so it is his right, as regent.

The point was, Loghain asked for a duel and did not call his men to fight (although apparently that could happen? I never had it happen to me). Eammon on the otherhand doesn't even try to call for a duel and calls his men to fight the Landsmeet, while also claiming he cares about it. Obviously that's hypocracy.

If the Landsmeet rejected him, it's not his right to declare war on it, epecially not when the whole point was to end the civil war.
What Loghain did is irrelevent. Eammon is claiming that one should not sacrifice what "Ferelden is" in order to end the civil war, but yet has no problem doing it when the Landsmeet sides against him.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 avril 2010 - 03:35 .

[Serissia]

Addai67 wrote...
We don't know that she didn't.  Alistair describes it as being very old and unique in Ferelden, not something a servant girl is likely to own.

It's not mentioned as being on her person in The Calling.  Also she doesn't come across as being very religious.  Through out the book it's Maric that is saying the prayers (Chant of Light) as the various companions die.