60083 réponses à ce sujet

[mellifera]

I am boreeeeed.



derp derp derp

[Axekix]

LadyDamodred wrote...

My response to an apology request was "F*CK YOU!" 

With the smiley face?  Cause then it's not so bad.

[Lara Denton]

Sarah1281 wrote...
I'm not denying that Alistair is deeply hurt and feels incredibly betrayed and that he's not thinking clearly when he decides to leave. I also know that he comes to regret it. Still, IRL when people do things in the heat of the moment that, looking back, were not good choices then it isn't out of line to want an apology. Alistair can still want one from the PC while owing her one of his own. Maybe not even owing her but Eamon, the companions, Duncan, all of Ferelden...he left and he needs to apologize to someone. Not everyone chose to let Loghain live, after all, but he chose to not do anything to stop them all from dying.

I still don't see the PC here. Alistair did this, Alistair thinks that... You move on looking through the glass that shows that Alistair did something in the heat of the moment. I was asking why is the PC always right? And I'm not trying to raise arguments about the Blight and how it needed to be defeated, I think we've been all on that road, my question differs.

[tmp7704]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I would be sorry that I hurt him and that would be what I would apologize for. I'm not expecting an apology under those circumstances but that doesn't mean I can't want one.

I can see room for apology from both sides there, it's just unfortunate you don't get to meet him again in the game so that doesn't happen. On the other hand, there's possibility it doesn't happen because both sides feel it's the other person who should come to them and apologize first.

[LadyDamodred]

Axekix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

My response to an apology request was "F*CK YOU!" 

With the smiley face?  Cause then it's not so bad.

The smiley is how I feel about it now.  Back then it was all rage and hate.  Good times, good times.

[Axekix]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Axekix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

My response to an apology request was "F*CK YOU!" 

With the smiley face?  Cause then it's not so bad.

The smiley is how I feel about it now.  Back then it was all rage and hate.  Good times, good times.

Enraged LadyD?  Does not compute.  You're probably the most diplomatic person in this thread.  Whatever they did must've been pretty bad

[Addai]

Sandtigress wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...

Oh come on...isn't that my first post in hours?  Celebratory Ron/Alistair please, because the thesis is done and video editing is done and I can go home and eat and sleep now! 

And especially for you.

Mmmmmmmmmmm......

:wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub:

I have to say... the scrawny elf looks pretty hot in that first link.

[LadyDamodred]

Axekix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Axekix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

My response to an apology request was "F*CK YOU!" 

With the smiley face?  Cause then it's not so bad.

The smiley is how I feel about it now.  Back then it was all rage and hate.  Good times, good times.

Enraged LadyD?  Does not compute.  You're probably the most diplomatic person in this thread.  Whatever they did must've been pretty bad

lol, thanks.    I try to be reasonable, though sometimes even my sparkling wit and charm desert me.

And yeah, best friend + knife in the back = equal angry, angry Lady D.

[Sarah1281]

laradenton wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
I'm not denying that Alistair is deeply hurt and feels incredibly betrayed and that he's not thinking clearly when he decides to leave. I also know that he comes to regret it. Still, IRL when people do things in the heat of the moment that, looking back, were not good choices then it isn't out of line to want an apology. Alistair can still want one from the PC while owing her one of his own. Maybe not even owing her but Eamon, the companions, Duncan, all of Ferelden...he left and he needs to apologize to someone. Not everyone chose to let Loghain live, after all, but he chose to not do anything to stop them all from dying.

I still don't see the PC here. Alistair did this, Alistair thinks that... You move on looking through the glass that shows that Alistair did something in the heat of the moment. I was asking why is the PC always right? And I'm not trying to raise arguments about the Blight and how it needed to be defeated, I think we've been all on that road, my question differs.

While you can't possibly know this beforehand, Loghain does prove himself a good GW and may even insist on dying for you if you haven't done the ritual. As such, he proves himself there which makes the only thing you can be wrong about whether you have disgraced the Wardens by allowing Loghain into it since he's been pretty anti-order the whole game. I don't see Loghain's past actions as being enough to prevent him from being a Warden on the basis of him being irideemable or it cheapening the order and since I was ultimately proved right in Loghain being helpful against the Blight I can't say I really feel the need to apolgoize for letting Loghain into the order.

That's not a case of the PC always being right, though, as just because I feel perfectly justified doesn't mean that I am and it's all subjective anyway. I could apologize for the fact that my actions hurt him and probably would but not the decision itself. It was risky and might have been overly reckless but it paid off. Even if Alistair never regretted what he did then I would still objectively think it was a bad decision. Would the fact that he had no regrets mean that he was right? No. Perhaps Alistair's regretting and the PC not regretting makes him more self-aware or more empathetic but just because you don't feel like you've done something wrong doesn't mean you haven't. Of course, in this case since Loghain does prove himself the only thing I see that you have to apologize for is hurting Alistair...which I do.

[Lara Denton]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

During a blight a persons feelings dont count, ending the blight does. In  real life, as well as 9/10 of my PC's wont kill an defenceless person who surrendered simply because someone else demands them to do it.

Just... don't go there. Do trace some borders and think in the universe we're discussing. 

[Sandtigress]

Addai67 wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...

Oh come on...isn't that my first post in hours?  Celebratory Ron/Alistair please, because the thesis is done and video editing is done and I can go home and eat and sleep now! 

And especially for you.

Mmmmmmmmmmm......

:wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub:

I have to say... the scrawny elf looks pretty hot in that first link.

Yes, yes he does!!

[LadyDamodred]

Sarah1281 wrote...
Of course, in this case since Loghain does prove himself the only thing I see that you have to apologize for is hurting Alistair...which I do.

Coming from personal experience, that seems more of a "I'm sorry you were hurt by this" because since you do not regret the action which caused the hurt, you do not regret hurting him.  You feel bad that he felt hurt over it.

[Addai]

Loghain sucks.  The End.

On other topics:
Alistair hugs FTW

[mellifera]

Oh god, aren't people get sick of this argument yet?

[Zeleen]

Sarah1281 wrote...

laradenton wrote...

Gilsa wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Here is a quick question if the PC spared Loghain do you think Alistair would ever get over it:?
Or for very specific ones:
As a Friend
As a lover
As a former lover

What do you think Alistair would think of them after a while?

I think it depends. When Alistair leaves (isn't made king or executed) there's a lot left undiscussed. His reaction is so incredibly kneejerk and he regrets what he does so much, somewhere down the road it might be possible to meet again and discuss it when tensions aren't so high and emotions have faded a bit. I don't know how likely completely restoring the relationship, at any level, would be but stranger things have happened.

I also think that if you marry him to Anora, spare Loghain and do the ritual, you have f*cked him up for good and that would be the most unforgiving Alistair. He's in a loveless marriage to a woman who hero worships the man who caused him to lose his love and his place in the Wardens (in his opinion). That would have to be a miserable existence. 

This was my canon ending from my first playthrough and I tormented myself over this. I wanted to know if I could ever find drunk Alistair again and make amends with him. I wanted to know if drunk Alistair would regret his decision and try to rejoin the Grey Wardens again. Every time there was a Bioware thread that said, "Hey, what would you like to see in our future game?" I always wanted to know if the drunk Alistair story was going to continue.

Enough time has passed that I'm over it. Based on the comments I see here and there from writers, I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed and any follow-up with drunk Alistair is next to nil. I don't know that Alistair would be willing to start up a romance again, but he may forgive and possibly be friends again. At this point, I think we just have to fill in the blanks on what we think happens with drunk Alistair.

It is more of a rhetorical question, because I often read opinions like yours: why the drunken Alistair must be the one making an apology? I would like to see a story where the Warden goes just to say "I'm sorry". I don't get it why the PC is always right and Alistair must be the one regretting his decision. Why not the PC?

Well Alistair's a set character pretty much and he will either be able to move past what you do or he won't. Whether you can forgive him for leaving or even blame him will vary from person to person and perhaps even from playthrough to playthrough. We know how pissed Alistair is and the Warden might not even care that he's leaving or she could want to kill him where he stands. She might not feel she has anything to apologize for in which case she won't but, again, there are too many RP choices. Since Alistair does come to regret his choice at least as far as bailing on the Blight then there's the quesiton of what, if anything, he's going to do about it and since we know that he is sorry for leaving will he tell the PC or anyone else this and will be be able to forgive them. If so, could he have any sort of relationship with them or does he need to be far away from them? 

giggles loves to do this
when I spared Logain and made Alistair King (I was in a romance with him-love) at the coronation he was friendly to me..  and it seemed that there was a chance for the relationship to go on.. but at the end game camp he was nowhere to be found.

[LadyDamodred]

yukidama wrote...

Oh god, aren't people get sick of this argument yet?

NEVAR!  But I'll stop for Alistair.  Sweet, sweet Alistair.  *cuddles*

[Zeleen]

yukidama wrote...

I am boreeeeed.

derp derp derp

 **swoon**

[mellifera]

LadyDamodred wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Oh god, aren't people get sick of this argument yet?

NEVAR!  But I'll stop for Alistair.  Sweet, sweet Alistair.  *cuddles*

Good

[LadyDamodred]

yukidama wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Oh god, aren't people get sick of this argument yet?

NEVAR!  But I'll stop for Alistair.  Sweet, sweet Alistair.  *cuddles*

Good

Alistair is pleased!  I am content! 

[Lara Denton]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
Of course, in this case since Loghain does prove himself the only thing I see that you have to apologize for is hurting Alistair...which I do.

Coming from personal experience, that seems more of a "I'm sorry you were hurt by this" because since you do not regret the action which caused the hurt, you do not regret hurting him.  You feel bad that he felt hurt over it.

I couldn't have summed it better. Thank you. So, at least in Sarah's case, there is no remorseful PC.

@Sarah1281 But I knew that... And that is something I keep hearing all the time from those who did it. And that's why I started all this. Your PC is still seen as the one holding all the cards. Sure, that's why we're playing the game, but we're not discussing that, are we?

And a sort of a joke: Does DG reside in the Fade and keeps whispering in your PC's dreams that Alistair is going to regret it?

[Lady Jess]

laradenton wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
Of course, in this case since Loghain does prove himself the only thing I see that you have to apologize for is hurting Alistair...which I do.

Coming from personal experience, that seems more of a "I'm sorry you were hurt by this" because since you do not regret the action which caused the hurt, you do not regret hurting him.  You feel bad that he felt hurt over it.

I couldn't have summed it better. Thank you. So, at least in Sarah's case, there is no remorseful PC.

@Sarah1281 But I knew that... And that is something I keep hearing all the time from those who did it. And that's why I started all this. Your PC is still seen as the one holding all the cards. Sure, that's why we're playing the game, but we're not discussing that, are we?

And a sort of a joke: Does DG reside in the Fade and keeps whispering in your PC's dreams that Alistair is going to regret it?

He made said comment in one of the million Alistair threads in the forums actually.

[Lara Denton]

Lady Jess wrote...

He made said comment in one of the million Alistair threads in the forums actually.

Yes, I know, but that is something that only the player knows, not the Warden. So where I was going with this is that the PC should not expect any kind of regrets from Alistair.

[Zeleen]

Xandurpein wrote...

Speaking of armour and combat. Isn't this little mabari pup adorable?

taking a trip back in time again... trying to catch up..  this thread grows sooooo fast...
this is absolutely adorable

[Lady Jess]

Zeleen wrote...

giggles loves to do this
when I spared Logain and made Alistair King (I was in a romance with him-love) at the coronation he was friendly to me..  and it seemed that there was a chance for the relationship to go on.. but at the end game camp he was nowhere to be found.

I've spared him one time. It was my first RP thing, and I hate that character now. When I found out about Loghain's cameo I did it as twisted revenge, that I had something to do with his post in Orlais.

I still feel like crap when I look at her. To me, she betrayed her family, king, Duncan, Alistair, all the elves in the Alienage, everyone touched by Howe's treachery, because she didn't execute the man who abandoned the wardens and the king then rewarded that villain at every turn.

She never even made it to Awakening to see his cameo.

Now mind you, that playthrough was one of my really early ones, and I didn't pay much attention to what I was hearing. It wasn't until I started redoing things and slowing down that everything kind of hit me at once, then I couldn't look at her.

[Lara Denton]

Zeleen wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

Speaking of armour and combat. Isn't this little mabari pup adorable?

taking a trip back in time again... trying to catch up..  this thread grows sooooo fast...
this is absolutely adorable

Reminds me of this.
ETA:

Modifié par laradenton, 25 juin 2010 - 05:26 .