60083 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
Of course, in this case since Loghain does prove himself the only thing I see that you have to apologize for is hurting Alistair...which I do.

Coming from personal experience, that seems more of a "I'm sorry you were hurt by this" because since you do not regret the action which caused the hurt, you do not regret hurting him.  You feel bad that he felt hurt over it.

I'm really not seeing a difference between those two things. He is hurt by your actions so since you regret that you regret hurting him. Could you explain the difference you see? 

[phaonica]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
Of course, in this case since Loghain does prove himself the only thing I see that you have to apologize for is hurting Alistair...which I do.

Coming from personal experience, that seems more of a "I'm sorry you were hurt by this" because since you do not regret the action which caused the hurt, you do not regret hurting him.  You feel bad that he felt hurt over it.

Well... yes, to be perfectly honest. I do not regret the action that caused the hurt. I wish that his hurt was not a consequence of an action that I do not regret.

laradenton wrote...
So, at least in Sarah's case, there is no remorseful PC.

My character is not remorseful about the decision, either, no.

[Lady Jess]

phaonica wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
Of course, in this case since Loghain does prove himself the only thing I see that you have to apologize for is hurting Alistair...which I do.

Coming from personal experience, that seems more of a "I'm sorry you were hurt by this" because since you do not regret the action which caused the hurt, you do not regret hurting him.  You feel bad that he felt hurt over it.

Well... yes, to be perfectly honest. I do not regret the action that caused the hurt. I wish that his hurt was not a consequence of an action that I do not regret.

laradenton wrote...
So, at least in Sarah's case, there is no remorseful PC.

My character is not remorseful about the decision, either, no.

Makes sense to me. I recall being punished as a teen aftar a really big argument with my mom. We both said some hurtful things, as such things go, and being crushed by it. Grounded and unable to see my boyfriend (serious business at the time ya know). My mother would say "I'm sorry you're hurting, but this is why I did what I did. I didn't do it to hurt you"

[Lady Jess]

[phaonica]

Lady Jess wrote...
Makes sense to me. I recall being punished as a teen aftar a really big argument with my mom. We both said some hurtful things, as such things go, and being crushed by it. Grounded and unable to see my boyfriend (serious business at the time ya know). My mother would say "I'm sorry you're hurting, but this is why I did what I did. I didn't do it to hurt you"

Exactly. I did not do this thing to hurt Alistair. When you say it like that -- "I'm sorry you're hurting, but this is why I did what I did." -- is that really apologizing? Does apologizing only express regret?

[Lady Jess]

phaonica wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...
Makes sense to me. I recall being punished as a teen aftar a really big argument with my mom. We both said some hurtful things, as such things go, and being crushed by it. Grounded and unable to see my boyfriend (serious business at the time ya know). My mother would say "I'm sorry you're hurting, but this is why I did what I did. I didn't do it to hurt you"

Exactly. I did not do this thing to hurt Alistair. When you say it like that -- "I'm sorry you're hurting, but this is why I did what I did." -- is that really apologizing? Does apologizing only express regret?

I think it is. You don't have to be WRONG to apologize or regret. In my example my Mom was right. I deserved to be grounded. That doesn't mean she wasn't sorry, to have done something to cause me pain.

[tmp7704]

phaonica wrote...

Exactly. I did not do this thing to hurt Alistair. When you say it like that -- "I'm sorry you're hurting, but this is why I did what I did." -- is that really apologizing? Does apologizing only express regret?

As long as you are actually apologizing for causing him hurt and you genuinely feel bad about him hurting i don't see why it wouldn't be apologizing. Nor what it could be called, then.

[LadyDamodred]

Sarah1281 wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
Of course, in this case since Loghain does prove himself the only thing I see that you have to apologize for is hurting Alistair...which I do.

Coming from personal experience, that seems more of a "I'm sorry you were hurt by this" because since you do not regret the action which caused the hurt, you do not regret hurting him.  You feel bad that he felt hurt over it.

I'm really not seeing a difference between those two things. He is hurt by your actions so since you regret that you regret hurting him. Could you explain the difference you see? 

If I do something that I feel is justified, I do no regret that action, even if that action leads to people being hurt.  I might feel bad that they felt hurt by my actions, but that is not the same as regretting the action itself.  The hurt you caused is your action.  If you do not regret the action, you don't really regret hurting them.

From what you have said, your PC feels completely justified with what she did.  So what is there to regret?  You regret Alistair storming off and the loss of whatever relationship you had.  But it seems more that you regretted what you lost and not the pain his is feeling.  I'm not saying you wish him pain or that you want him to continue it, but if you wouldn't undo the action in order to spare him pain, you regret that he felt hurt, not that you regret what caused the hurt.

I realize that might not adequately explain it, but it's late.  I'm not my most eloquent at the momemt.

[Addai]

The one who really needs to apologize is Riordan for putting you in that position on the spot.  Dude really needs to think ahead a bit more.

He is hot, though.

[Lady Jess]

Addai67 wrote...

The one who really needs to apologize is Riordan for putting you in that position on the spot.  Dude really needs to think ahead a bit more.

He is hot, though.

mmmmmmm Yummy:wub:

[tmp7704]

Addai67 wrote...

He is hot, though.

It's the splintmail effect.

[LadyDamodred]

tmp7704 wrote...

phaonica wrote...

Exactly. I did not do this thing to hurt Alistair. When you say it like that -- "I'm sorry you're hurting, but this is why I did what I did." -- is that really apologizing? Does apologizing only express regret?

As long as you are actually apologizing for causing him hurt and you genuinely feel bad about him hurting i don't see why it wouldn't be apologizing. Nor what it could be called, then.

You're not apologizing for your action in that case.  It's more that you are feeling sympathy that he is hurting.  We use the term "sorry" to express sympathy when others are in pain, and that's tied to apologizing, even if it isn't the same thing.  Like mother used the term, she's sympathizing with what she was feeling, but she wasn't sorry for makign her feel that way.

[Addai]

tmp7704 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

He is hot, though.

It's the splintmail effect.

Don't get me started imagining Riordan in Shadow Armor, etc.  A girl can only squee so much.

Modifié par Addai67, 25 juin 2010 - 05:47 .

[LadyDamodred]

tmp7704 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

He is hot, though.

It's the splintmail effect.

God, yes.  Alistair is splintmail will always be my favorite.

[Addai]

LadyDamodred wrote...

God, yes.  Alistair is splintmail will always be my favorite.

It never occurred to me that splintmail was squee material before encountering that opinion on the thread.  Still don't see it.  The coloring works well for Alistair, though.

[Sarah1281]

Addai67 wrote...

The one who really needs to apologize is Riordan for putting you in that position on the spot.  Dude really needs to think ahead a bit more.

He is hot, though.

If you had cornered him and made him explain about the Archdemon and so Alistair knew exactly what you were planning on doing would he have been any more okay with it? 

[LadyDamodred]

Addai67 wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

God, yes.  Alistair is splintmail will always be my favorite.

It never occurred to me that splintmail was squee material before encountering that opinion on the thread.  Still don't see it.  The coloring works well for Alistair, though.

The coloring does work well for Alistair, especially his sarter set.

I think what is does is allows the character to retain a nice shape, while emphasizing the right things.  You still see broad chest and tapered waist/hips, and the shoulders are broadened.  Just gives a very nice aestetic.

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...
 If you had cornered him and made him explain about the Archdemon and so Alistair knew exactly what you were planning on doing would he have been any more okay with it? 

No, I don't think so.  Nor would I think it's ok.  Loghain needs to die, period.  But you would learn that you need more Wardens, and could start conscripting/ recruiting left and right.

[Lara Denton]

Sarah1281 wrote...
 If you had cornered him and made him explain about the Archdemon and so Alistair knew exactly what you were planning on doing would he have been any more okay with it? 

I'll just say no. It's almost 8 AM and I haven't slept since yesterday, so I don't have the energy to explain why.

[mellifera]

I love splintmail~



The only thing I don't love is the crazy cup that stretches when the characters wearing them move xD

[LadyDamodred]

yukidama wrote...


I love splintmail~

The only thing I don't love is the crazy cup that stretches when the characters wearing them move xD

*high-fives yuki and tmp*

[tmp7704]

LadyDamodred wrote...

You're not apologizing for your action in that case.  It's more that you are feeling sympathy that he is hurting.  We use the term "sorry" to express sympathy when others are in pain, and that's tied to apologizing, even if it isn't the same thing.  Like mother used the term, she's sympathizing with what she was feeling, but she wasn't sorry for makign her feel that way.

You can also consider it an apology for my action causing him hurt as its side-effect. Or, to view it from another angle, for putting something else over the prospect of causing him hurt. I use "apology" in the sense: "an expression of regret at having caused trouble for someone" which does appear to be one of official definitions of the term. "to acknowledge one's mistake" is another, but both are valid.

[Lady Jess]

Leather works well too...much better for cuddles

[Addai]

Lady Jess wrote...

Leather works well too...much better for cuddles

Yeah, I've been picturing Alistair in leather armor.  It is so much nicer for imagining the cuddles.  I imagine it's easier to get off, too.    Maybe Xandurpein will enlighten us otherwise, though!

[phaonica]

edit: putting Lady Jess's pretty pic on ToP

LadyDamodred wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

phaonica wrote...

Exactly. I did not do this thing to hurt Alistair. When you say it like that -- "I'm sorry you're hurting, but this is why I did what I did." -- is that really apologizing? Does apologizing only express regret?

As long as you are actually apologizing for causing him hurt and you genuinely feel bad about him hurting i don't see why it wouldn't be apologizing. Nor what it could be called, then.

You're not apologizing for your action in that case.  It's more that you are feeling sympathy that he is hurting.  We use the term "sorry" to express sympathy when others are in pain, and that's tied to apologizing, even if it isn't the same thing.  Like mother used the term, she's sympathizing with what she was feeling, but she wasn't sorry for makign her feel that way.

It's true, we do use the term "sorry" for things that aren't necessarily an apology, but rather an expression of sympathy. If we are making that distinction then I suppose my character isn't "sorry" (regretful) about her decision, but is "sorry" (sympathetic) that it caused Alistair pain.

Modifié par phaonica, 25 juin 2010 - 05:58 .