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[Axekix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Some people, particuarly here, were also pissed at the implication that without them then all of Ferelden was doomed particulary since Alistair would have been the one leading them to their failure. And his decisions made no sense.

And yet he has a 2k page fan thread.  Mind-boggling isn't it?

[Thiefy]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Some people, particuarly here, were also pissed at the implication that without them then all of Ferelden was doomed particulary since Alistair would have been the one leading them to their failure. And his decisions made no sense.

how does that make you a mary sue, exactly?

it's to my understanding that a mary sue is someone perfect, almost sickeningly so.
there are a lot of imperfect decisions that need to be made in order to save fereldan sooo....yeah....logic failure there?

[Sarah1281]

Axekix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Some people, particuarly here, were also pissed at the implication that without them then all of Ferelden was doomed particulary since Alistair would have been the one leading them to their failure. And his decisions made no sense.

And yet he has a 2k page fan thread.  Mind-boggling isn't it?

Why would that be mind-boggling? The fans were the ones that were so pissed.

[Sarah1281]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Some people, particuarly here, were also pissed at the implication that without them then all of Ferelden was doomed particulary since Alistair would have been the one leading them to their failure. And his decisions made no sense.

how does that make you a mary sue, exactly?

it's to my understanding that a mary sue is someone perfect, almost sickeningly so.
there are a lot of imperfect decisions that need to be made in order to save fereldan sooo....yeah....logic failure there?

Well, I guess the DLC made people feel like the Warden was a Black Hole Sue, a Mary Tzu, and a God Mode Sue.

[Thiefy]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Some people, particuarly here, were also pissed at the implication that without them then all of Ferelden was doomed particulary since Alistair would have been the one leading them to their failure. And his decisions made no sense.

how does that make you a mary sue, exactly?

it's to my understanding that a mary sue is someone perfect, almost sickeningly so.
there are a lot of imperfect decisions that need to be made in order to save fereldan sooo....yeah....logic failure there?

Well, I guess the DLC made people feel like the Warden was a Black Hole Sue, a Mary Tzu, and a God Mode Sue.

are you talking about awakening? i haven't finished that yet because i seem to have a character import failure problem....everytime i try to import any of my wardens, it takes the save at the top of my list instead of my most current one...so it importns from wardens like are like level 8 instead of my mxed out ones.

[mellifera]

I guess what gets people is that the Warden is soooo awesome that they can stop something like a Blight with just a handful of people at their side. Again, that is going solely by what actually occurs in game, since not everyone RPs and the more elaborate RP a player does not actually register in the game. So people can only really speak in terms of the common experience all users have.

[Sarah1281]

are you talking about awakening?

No, the Darkspawn Chronicles where having no Warden meant Alistair picked all the OOC 'evil' options, allied with Howe, had just enough followers for a party, and ultimately failed.

[Thiefy]

Sarah1281 wrote...

are you talking about awakening?

No, the Darkspawn Chronicles where having no Warden meant Alistair picked all the OOC 'evil' options, allied with Howe, had just enough followers for a party, and ultimately failed.

ugh...thought that was just for fun and not necessarily cannon? i hardly doubt loghain would even let alistair live past the landsmeet should that sequence of events had taken place....

[Addai]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Some people, particuarly here, were also pissed at the implication that without them then all of Ferelden was doomed particulary since Alistair would have been the one leading them to their failure. And his decisions made no sense.

how does that make you a mary sue, exactly?

it's to my understanding that a mary sue is someone perfect, almost sickeningly so.
there are a lot of imperfect decisions that need to be made in order to save fereldan sooo....yeah....logic failure there?

The term is used loosely.  Basically, without the Warden, the world was DOOOMED, and hence the sun shines out of the Hero of Ferelden's behind etc.  It's sort of what games have to do.  No one wants to play Gary Warden the pimply loser.

I don't think Hawke is a Marty Stu.  They might very well make him a flawed character, especially since he hightails it rather than stay and fight the Blight.  I just don't find him very interesting from what I've heard so far.  That plus the gameplay changes = extreme meh.

Modifié par Addai67, 19 juillet 2010 - 04:49 .

[Addai]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

are you talking about awakening?

No, the Darkspawn Chronicles where having no Warden meant Alistair picked all the OOC 'evil' options, allied with Howe, had just enough followers for a party, and ultimately failed.

ugh...thought that was just for fun and not necessarily cannon? i hardly doubt loghain would even let alistair live past the landsmeet should that sequence of events had taken place....

There's no way it can be canon since it's an alternate universe.  But since there was codex and stuff, you can take it as a sort of commentary on the canon.  It was also presented as "what would have happened if you had died at your Joining."  So the promotion was for it to have some story value.  Of course, you're right that it had none whatsoever, but then why promote it as such and why bother with codex at all?

[Thiefy]

Addai67 wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Some people, particuarly here, were also pissed at the implication that without them then all of Ferelden was doomed particulary since Alistair would have been the one leading them to their failure. And his decisions made no sense.

how does that make you a mary sue, exactly?

it's to my understanding that a mary sue is someone perfect, almost sickeningly so.
there are a lot of imperfect decisions that need to be made in order to save fereldan sooo....yeah....logic failure there?

The term is used loosely.  Basically, without the Warden, the world was DOOOMED, and hence the sun shines out of the Hero of Ferelden's behind etc.  It's sort of what games have to do.  No one wants to play Gary Warden the pimply loser.

I don't think Hawke is a Marty Stu.  They might very well make him a flawed character, especially since he hightails it rather than stay and fight the Blight.  I just don't find him very interesting from what I've heard so far.  That plus the gameplay changes = extreme meh.

lol then in that case calling the warden a mary sue is splitting hairs  the whole point of the game was to stop the blight, and you could make less than noble to decisions to do that. though if people preferred to not stop the blight, i suppose they could just get a game over, or something.

[Addai]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
lol then in that case calling the warden a mary sue is splitting hairs  the whole point of the game was to stop the blight, and you could make less than noble to decisions to do that. though if people preferred to not stop the blight, i suppose they could just get a game over, or something.

Well another example is how everyone in the game refers to the PC as "the Warden," even if Alistair is standing right there.  And if the PC dies, it's a big freakin deal, but if Alistair dies killing the archdemon, it's "Alistair who?  Anyway, here is THE HERO OF FERELDEN, ladies and gentle sers!"

No one recognizes you for being an ass even if you were one, they all just think you're the savior of mankind.  And, well, that's pretty much what the game makes you out to be.

[Thiefy]

Addai67 wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

are you talking about awakening?

No, the Darkspawn Chronicles where having no Warden meant Alistair picked all the OOC 'evil' options, allied with Howe, had just enough followers for a party, and ultimately failed.

ugh...thought that was just for fun and not necessarily cannon? i hardly doubt loghain would even let alistair live past the landsmeet should that sequence of events had taken place....

There's no way it can be canon since it's an alternate universe.  But since there was codex and stuff, you can take it as a sort of commentary on the canon.  It was also presented as "what would have happened if you had died at your Joining."  So the promotion was for it to have some story value.  Of course, you're right that it had none whatsoever, but then why promote it as such and why bother with codex at all?

i think the codex would have just been something for fun as well or to give more insight to a "what if" situation. i really think the howe thing was there just to give players another oppertunity to kill him. it would make more sense for alistair to ally with teagan more than anyone else.

[Addai]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

i think the codex would have just been something for fun as well or to give more insight to a "what if" situation. i really think the howe thing was there just to give players another oppertunity to kill him. it would make more sense for alistair to ally with teagan more than anyone else.

I see the whole thing as a big dev joke, but the problem is that it was presented very seriously and as if it was supposed to have emotional impact and story value when basically it was a hack n' slash with some farcical elements to it.

I'm not a fan.  Maybe you could tell.  :innocent:

[Sarah1281]

Addai67 wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
lol then in that case calling the warden a mary sue is splitting hairs  the whole point of the game was to stop the blight, and you could make less than noble to decisions to do that. though if people preferred to not stop the blight, i suppose they could just get a game over, or something.

Well another example is how everyone in the game refers to the PC as "the Warden," even if Alistair is standing right there.  And if the PC dies, it's a big freakin deal, but if Alistair dies killing the archdemon, it's "Alistair who?  Anyway, here is THE HERO OF FERELDEN, ladies and gentle sers!"

No one recognizes you for being an ass even if you were one, they all just think you're the savior of mankind.  And, well, that's pretty much what the game makes you out to be.

If it makes you feel any better, you can imagine everyone had a funeral for Alistair before the coronation and were very sad at it and then after your funeral Alistair gets annoyed post-coronation because no one really seems to care that you're dead.

[Thiefy]

Addai67 wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
lol then in that case calling the warden a mary sue is splitting hairs  the whole point of the game was to stop the blight, and you could make less than noble to decisions to do that. though if people preferred to not stop the blight, i suppose they could just get a game over, or something.

Well another example is how everyone in the game refers to the PC as "the Warden," even if Alistair is standing right there.  And if the PC dies, it's a big freakin deal, but if Alistair dies killing the archdemon, it's "Alistair who?  Anyway, here is THE HERO OF FERELDEN, ladies and gentle sers!"

No one recognizes you for being an ass even if you were one, they all just think you're the savior of mankind.  And, well, that's pretty much what the game makes you out to be.

everyone reffers to you as the warden because noone can say your name. that's techinical limitations and not one imposed on by the story, which i also think is splitting hairs.

i think there was also more importance on the warden's funeral over alistairs because, well you are the main character so it's assumed you would be more interested in your own over your partner's (though that wasn't the case with me, personally) if anything i bet anora had something to do with the lack of alistair being mention at the end, because she is that kind of wench. she'll put up a giant statue for her father but leave out alistair in a heartbeat.

as far as being an ass, well regardless i suppose that just boils down to "doing what you had to do" to save fereldan. you don't realy get to make 100% pure evil decisions and even if you did, and your reasoning was seen as "I'm doing this to be a dick", it could also easily be seen as just taking the more diificult option to end the blight faster. sacrifice 1 to save 1000 if you will. the only time you really get to do anything 100% questionalbe is destroying the Urn, but noone will know about that except your party members.a

[Thiefy]

Addai67 wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

i think the codex would have just been something for fun as well or to give more insight to a "what if" situation. i really think the howe thing was there just to give players another oppertunity to kill him. it would make more sense for alistair to ally with teagan more than anyone else.

I see the whole thing as a big dev joke, but the problem is that it was presented very seriously and as if it was supposed to have emotional impact and story value when basically it was a hack n' slash with some farcical elements to it.

I'm not a fan.  Maybe you could tell.  :innocent:

i havent had the chance to play it yet, but right now it just seems like they wanted to be thorough. maybe it will change once i get it d/l though

[Axekix]

Sarah1281 wrote...
Why would that be mind-boggling? The fans were the ones that were so pissed.

It's mind-boggling that someone with such poor judgement would be so worshiped.

[mellifera]

While I disagree with you Axe, is it really surprising that people worship idiots (which Alistair is not, btw)? Have you seen the way people slobber all over celebs? Heh.

[Axekix]

yukidama wrote...

While I disagree with you Axe, is it really surprising that people worship idiots (which Alistair is not, btw)? Have you seen the way people slobber all over celebs? Heh.

Haha, true enough.  Case in point, I just saw an hour long interview with Michael Lohan.

[Addai]

Axekix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
Why would that be mind-boggling? The fans were the ones that were so pissed.

It's mind-boggling that someone with such poor judgement would be so worshiped.

I rest my case for how DSC gets treated as canon even though it's a farce. 

Modifié par Addai67, 19 juillet 2010 - 05:41 .

[Axekix]

Zyanic wrote...

Axekix wrote...

yukidama wrote...

While I disagree with you Axe, is it really surprising that people worship idiots (which Alistair is not, btw)? Have you seen the way people slobber all over celebs? Heh.

Haha, true enough.  Case in point, I just saw an hour long interview with Michael Lohan.

 nobody worships Michael Lohan do they? There is not an emoticon that looks terrified enough to place here.

No... but I'm sure you can guess what they were discussing.

[Axekix]

Addai67 wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
Why would that be mind-boggling? The fans were the ones that were so pissed.

It's mind-boggling that someone with such poor judgement would be so worshiped.

I rest my case for how DSC gets treated as canon even though it's a farce. 

Bioware wrote it (even though I wish they hadn't)!