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[Miri1984]

Addai67 wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

PC:  "What do you know about justice?  You left Cailan to die."
Loghain:  "Warden, Cailan was Maric's son.  Had there been any chance of reaching him at Ostagar, I would have fought to my last breath to save him."  *VO directions - "He believes this.  It's not true, exactly, but he believes it."*

Ha!  I've told people before that all the world-weary, "I did the best I could" things that Loghain tells a Warden after being spared were bull**** that Loghain might actually believe himself, but are part of his delusions.

I agree - he's totally paranoid and mentally ill by this stage. A case of power corrupting to the state of lunacy. One of the reasons why I don't like making Anora queen - she's just a little bit too like her daddy and I can see her starting to collect cats and decapitate old ladies in her old age. Or doing a Stalin and locking herself in the palace while she sends people out to collect and kill traitors. 

Still, I make Anora queen when I have an elf or a mage so I can keep Alistair. The things I would do for that man *sigh*.

[cmessaz]

Addai67 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

AL: "This isn't just about the kingship. I guess I always knew I didn't deserve to be happy. I just...didn't expect you to agree. Especially in front of all of Ferelden."

On a sidenote, this has to be the most emo line uttered in the game.

He's just been betrayed by his lover, in public, and the man whom he holds responsible for killing the only family he's known is not only not going to be punished, he's going to be honored (as Alistair sees it).

Holy maker, Alistair could turn to stone and people would still complain he's a whiner.

Not me!

[Addai]

LadyDamodred wrote...

It is exactly as Anora says. He decides something, and it becomes the truth. It is mostly true. There was a chance. Small, would have meant losing a lot of people, but the chance was still there. He knew the cost wasn't worth it, and uses this to explain away his guilt.

People will argue that Loghain has nothing to gain by lying at that point, but a person at the end of his life has everything to gain by such rationalization.  Edit:  And as we've said, it's mostly lying to himself.

Not that I want to turn this into another Alistair vs. Loghain thread...

Modifié par Addai67, 12 avril 2010 - 04:03 .

[LadyDamodred]

I do not think Loghain is insane. Not even a little bit. Everyone does what he does. Everyone. When you do something that you know is wrong, and succumbing to guilt is not an option, your mind finds a way to deal with it. Denial is the way people do that.



I like Loghain, I really do. I understand why he does what he does. I still execute him, b/c what he does it wrong. I quotes that b/c it's a rebuttal to the people who say there was no way Cailan could be saved. He could. The cost was just not worth it.

[sylvanaerie]

Addai67 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

AL: "This isn't just about the kingship. I guess I always knew I didn't deserve to be happy. I just...didn't expect you to agree. Especially in front of all of Ferelden."

On a sidenote, this has to be the most emo line uttered in the game.

He's just been betrayed by his lover, in public, and the man whom he holds responsible for killing the only family he's known is not only not going to be punished, he's going to be honored (as Alistair sees it).

Holy maker, Alistair could turn to stone and people would still complain he's a whiner.

Well I think D Gaider summed it up best for all those Alistair haters when he said :

Tell you what.

Next time we put in a male lead, we will make sure to make him the manliest and most stoic creature you could possibly imagine. Just for you. He will be so manly he will suck the body hair right off of John Wayne and make Chuck Norris weep with envy. He will never show a single emotion, not even at his grandmother's funeral, and will never utter a single complaint about your actions... he will simply reach out of the game, slap you across the face and then take over the party.

The rest of the party won't mind, and neither will you... because he will be that awesome. Deep down inside you will resent him, and resent the fact that every NPC in every town the party enters falls in love with him and not with you. But that part of you also knows he deserves that love. Even needs it.

I am certain there is not a single fault that you or anyone could find with such a character.

[LadyDamodred]

Yes, let's not get sidetracked.

[cmessaz]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

AL: "This isn't just about the kingship. I guess I always knew I didn't deserve to be happy. I just...didn't expect you to agree. Especially in front of all of Ferelden."

On a sidenote, this has to be the most emo line uttered in the game.

He's just been betrayed by his lover, in public, and the man whom he holds responsible for killing the only family he's known is not only not going to be punished, he's going to be honored (as Alistair sees it).

Holy maker, Alistair could turn to stone and people would still complain he's a whiner.

Well I think D Gaider summed it up best for all those Alistair haters when he said :

Tell you what.

Next time we put in a male lead, we will make sure to make him the manliest and most stoic creature you could possibly imagine. Just for you. He will be so manly he will suck the body hair right off of John Wayne and make Chuck Norris weep with envy. He will never show a single emotion, not even at his grandmother's funeral, and will never utter a single complaint about your actions... he will simply reach out of the game, slap you across the face and then take over the party.

The rest of the party won't mind, and neither will you... because he will be that awesome. Deep down inside you will resent him, and resent the fact that every NPC in every town the party enters falls in love with him and not with you. But that part of you also knows he deserves that love. Even needs it.

I am certain there is not a single fault that you or anyone could find with such a character.

That was some funny stuff.! And he makes an excellent point.

[sylvanaerie]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Yes, let's not get sidetracked.

What scene is this? Landsmeet? with just PC and Alistair?

[cmessaz]

LadyDamodred, I LOVE that screenshot! Good work! But what point of the game is it?

Modifié par cmessaz, 12 avril 2010 - 04:08 .

[Addai]

sylvanaerie wrote...

I am certain there is not a single fault that you or anyone could find with such a character.

Just as I'm sure the PCs the complainers play must be just like Oghren describes them, glowing nimbus and all.

[sami jo]

It is possible to RP a character who spares Loghain and is in love with Alistair. I have a mage character who knew it was probably the only way to keep the man she was about to name king very, very far away from a fight that could easily kill them all. A large chunk of the chaos in Ferelden would have been avoided if Cailen had not died at Ostagar. Anora ruling alone wasn't an option (since she clearly hadn't done all that well up to that point). She was hoping that Alistair would understand her reasons some day.

[LadyDamodred]

That is Landsmeet, just Alistair and I, hardened Alistair in love with PC and askign Anora to spare him.

And thank you.  I've taken a lot of screenshots of cutscenes in ordert o capture dialogue for stories before I knew about/had the toolset.  You get some really nice shots if you're careful.  I really like this one.  There's that little tightness about the eyes that conveys the pain.

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 12 avril 2010 - 04:13 .

[sylvanaerie]

Gaider has a seriously WICKED sense of humour as do a LOT of the posters on the boards I have seen. I don't think I have laughed so much in a long time.

@Lady
Explains why I didn't recognize it.  I have only done it once and it hurt TOO much Couldn't repeat that scenario.  I will never get Redeemer ending.  I just can't bear it.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 12 avril 2010 - 04:13 .

[Addai]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Yes, let's not get sidetracked.

Aw, is that screenshot when he's leaving to go become a wandering drunk?  I like to imagine that even in that scenario, Fiona will show up one day and drag him out by the ear to the big rehab center called Weisshaupt.

[nranola]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Yes, let's not get sidetracked.

I was just about to write something about how adorably he smiles in this one... up until I read the caption.


And since we're talking about Loghain now, I have to admit that Alistair freaking out over the thought of sparing him was a tad disappointing, although it was completely understandable. What Loghain did, no matter what his reasons were, was unforgivable. But looking at things practically, at that point in the game you will need help facing the Blight no matter what the form, and sparing Loghain does seem like a pragmatic choice. It was a shame that Alistair's hatred reared its ugly head right then. Makes me wish there was an option to hold off the execution or something... but then that would make the scene a whole lot less dramatic.

[cmessaz]

I have one more thing to add about Eamon. Why doesn't he say ANYTHING in Alistair's defense when Anora wants him executed? Not a damn thing. He cares about Alistair, but doesn't even object to his death?

[LadyDamodred]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Gaider has a seriously WICKED sense of humour as do a LOT of the posters on the boards I have seen. I don't think I have laughed so much in a long time.

@Lady
Explains why I didn't recognize it.  I have only done it once and it hurt TOO much Couldn't repeat that scenario.  I will never get Redeemer ending.  I just can't bear it.

Do it!  Do it RIGHT NOW!  I said it earlier, embrace the pain; it's good for the soul.  It makes you appreciate exactly how much better you're making Alistair's life when you harden him and make him solo king.

[Addai]

cmessaz wrote...

I have one more thing to add about Eamon. Why doesn't he say ANYTHING in Alistair's defense when Anora wants him executed? Not a damn thing. He cares about Alistair, but doesn't even object to his death?

Yes, here I am disappointed in Eamon, as well.  No doubt he suspects that he's very close to the chopping block himself.

[LadyDamodred]

cmessaz wrote...

I have one more thing to add about Eamon. Why doesn't he say ANYTHING in Alistair's defense when Anora wants him executed? Not a damn thing. He cares about Alistair, but doesn't even object to his death?

THAT!

That is in my fanfic with the Alistair execution.  Alistair is RAGED!
"I want to thank you, Eamon, for your impassioned defense of my life.  I was quite touched."

[sylvanaerie]

I can't do it. Did it once already and don't care to repeat the experience. I don't like it when games depress me. Its bad enough I bawl like a baby at the emotional scenes already.

Bryce in the Gauntlet gets me so bad I can't even see my monitor. I have to stop playing a few minutes to clear the water from my eyes.

If I added bad things to Alistair in the mix I couldn't stand it.

And I guess I am back in the right mood to work on my FF again.

[Addai]

sylvanaerie wrote...

I can't do it. Did it once already and don't care to repeat the experience. I don't like it when games depress me. Its bad enough I bawl like a baby at the emotional scenes already.
 

I'm the same way.  Whenever I try stuff like that in games because I want to see how it plays out, it sours my mood and even sours my image of the character for a while.  Not fun.  I watch the YouTubes for a bit more distance.

[cmessaz]

sylvanaerie wrote...

I can't do it. Did it once already and don't care to repeat the experience. I don't like it when games depress me. Its bad enough I bawl like a baby at the emotional scenes already.
Bryce in the Gauntlet gets me so bad I can't even see my monitor. I have to stop playing a few minutes to clear the water from my eyes.
If I added bad things to Alistair in the mix I couldn't stand it.
And I guess I am back in the right mood to work on my FF again.

The Teryn in the gauntlet is very sad for me. Just imagine if it were real. There needed to be a little party interaction at that point, I feel.

[cmessaz]

LadyDamodred wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

I have one more thing to add about Eamon. Why doesn't he say ANYTHING in Alistair's defense when Anora wants him executed? Not a damn thing. He cares about Alistair, but doesn't even object to his death?

THAT!

That is in my fanfic with the Alistair execution.  Alistair is RAGED!
"I want to thank you, Eamon, for your impassioned defense of my life.  I was quite touched."

Good line! Thats what I was thinking. This is my biggest issue with Eamon.

[LadyDamodred]

I really do need to write this story, now don't I?



Everyone is quite shocked when he walks in. Shocked and then moderately terrified. kekeke

[Miri1984]

cmessaz wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

I can't do it. Did it once already and don't care to repeat the experience. I don't like it when games depress me. Its bad enough I bawl like a baby at the emotional scenes already.
Bryce in the Gauntlet gets me so bad I can't even see my monitor. I have to stop playing a few minutes to clear the water from my eyes.
If I added bad things to Alistair in the mix I couldn't stand it.
And I guess I am back in the right mood to work on my FF again.

The Teryn in the gauntlet is very sad for me. Just imagine if it were real. There needed to be a little party interaction at that point, I feel.

If you say "Yes, I feel bad about it leaving my parents there to die/betraying Jowan/epic failing at something in my character's origin" Alistair pipes up with a defense for you - something along the lines of "It's easy to look back on things in hindsight and see where you went wrong, don't blame yourself." It's really quite sweet. 

Then he goes on to say he wishes he was there when Duncan died. Poor chook, he's so good at being nice to me, but can't be nice to himself. <3