60083 réponses à ce sujet

[Miri1984]

M-Taylor wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

Alistair can be killed the same amount of times as any other character - yes, as in once in a playthrough, but you can't ask him to leave the party, even if his disapproval is at -100 - the ONLY thing that will make him leave is letting Loghain live. Morrigan will nick off if you annoy her enough and come back at the end for the offering of the ritual. She is important, but the story would happen without her - just as it would happen without any of your other characters EXCEPT Alistair - the whole landsmeet would be a waste of time if you didn't have anyone to offer as an alternative monarch to Anora and Loghain. So a huge chunk of story just wouldn't happen without Alistair there, which in my opinion makes him the second most important character in the game - after the PC, because obviously the PC is the facilitator for all of this. I mean, technically it could all happen without the PC as well - it just wouldn't make a particularly interesting game .

The Landsmeet, I thought, was more about Loghain then any other character. It would of happened even without Alistair, because Loghain left the king to die and assumed his throne. Plus, the whole Alistair story does not effect every single story. Most of my play throughs end up with Anora on the throne, because even hardened Alistair doesn't seem to want the throne. In every single game, though, Morrigan goes west, with baby or no baby.

So.. Just my opinion, but I honestly don't think Alistair is the main character(not including the PC). I would honestly say, if I had to pick, that Morrigan was.. xD

Shame I don't like her character one single bit. Everytime she's in my party, the PC ends up getting deleted after a few hours of hearing Morrgins bitter rants.

Eamon makes it quite clear that they need an alternative to Loghain who is a stronger candidate for the throne or there really isn't any point in calling a landsmeet at all. I mean - can you imagine it - they all show up, Loghain says "So, you don't want me to be king eh? Got anyone else?" and Eamon sort of shifts and says "How about me?" and everyone points, laughs, and gives Loghain the crown.

Morrigan is important because her mum saves you and the reason she saves you is so a warden can impregnate her in the ritual, but that doesn't make her the main character - she is a catalyst for events - a facilitator, like the PC, and the story couldn't progress without her. HOWEVER, the main character in literature is the character who is changed the most by the events of the story. The one who makes the biggest journey. Now obviously that is supposed to be your PC - from ordinary mage/human/elf/dwarf/nug to hero of Ferelden and super uberduber entity of fabulousness, but Alistair is the one who changes the most apart from you. From stable sleeping chantry boy to King of Ferelden - or lover/friend of super uberduber entity of awesomeness - or drunk disillusioned hairy bum - or dead. Morrigan really is just the same at the beginning as she is at the end. As is pretty much every other character apart from Alistair, except maybe Zevran who also changes a fair bit - but not in ways that advance the story.

*deep breath* So I think what I'm arguing here is that your definition of "main character" is not the same as mine.  

[nranola]

ejoslin wrote...

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...


On a side note: I find it kind of a bummer if your a HNM and marry Anora, Fergus does have a line about your marriage.  But there's no such line for the HNF.

Really? That's odd. I would have expected the elder brother to be more concerned about his little sister's relationships than his little brother's. Then again, this is the guy who calls the HNF a "saucy minx" if she announces that she has someone waiting for her in bed, so maybe not.

If you want to see this line for a femwarden, go to my mod and download the fergus module in the optional files -- it's standalone!  He actually DOES have a line there you see.  I just learned this myself.

Edit: drinking coffee here but functioning on 3 hours sleep -- I'm talking about the post-coronation talk with Fergus, you can talk about the wedding as a femwarden as well.

WAT. This I have to see. The fact that Fergus had nothing to say about his sibling getting married nagged at me. xD Thank you!

[nos_astra]

ejoslin wrote...
If you want to see this line for a femwarden, go to my mod and download the fergus module in the optional files -- it's standalone!  He actually DOES have a line there you see.  I just learned this myself.

You're clearly awesome, despite your unholy love for Zev.

Modifié par klarabella, 12 avril 2010 - 10:59 .

[ejoslin]

What?!  I have queen Couslands too you know!
Zev loves a royal scandal 

Really, that bugged me as well.  All these fabulous lines, forgotten 

[Ezio Faraglia]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Sigh...too bad his role there is so short. But very very sweet...

and I still wanna know WHAT he whispered to his love when he left her.

If you are talking about when Alistair is about to leave after his cameo in awakening, then I think he just kisses the fem warden if he is your husband. Only finished one female warden, I am doing my 2nd one now, city elf, so I gotta harden Alistair

[nos_astra]

ejoslin wrote...
Zev loves a royal scandal 

Naughty Zev!

[nranola]

Okay, just played through the post-coronation with the Fergus mod. The scene was brief, but man does that feel a whole lot more real than if it weren't there. xD Thank you again, Ejoslin! I'll be eyeing your project page like a hawk. In the shadows. Ninja hawk...

@Ezio- It's more exciting to think that he whispered something in her ear, though. Makes you wonder what he said to make the Warden smile as she did, knowing the game barely shows her smile at all. I can only name three instances, two of which from Awakening, the Alistair cameo included.

[Xandurpein]

klarabella wrote...

Of course, all of the characters are important! But depending on who and how you play the story has a focus.
It's unsurprising that the focus of Alistair fan(girl)s is Alistair and the romance which is very closely connected to the plot and clearly interfering with your choices concerning the landsmeet, the dark ritual and the ultimate sacrifice. He's not more important than other characters in general, just a little bit more important to us.

So true. We all tend to keep one game, usually our first, in our hearts as THE canon version of the story and the game. It is hard to move beyond that and accept that completely different stories can be exactly as 'true' as our personal truth. And it is really perfectly fine to keep that image of 'our story' in our hearts, because it proves that the game really managed to touch us. But it's sometimes also wise to remember that what is my story isn't necessesarily your story, at least when I discuss events with others.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 12 avril 2010 - 11:18 .

[Creature 1]

Miri1984 wrote...
HOWEVER, the main character in literature is the character who is changed the most by the events of the story. The one who makes the biggest journey. Now obviously that is supposed to be your PC - from ordinary mage/human/elf/dwarf/nug to hero of Ferelden and super uberduber entity of fabulousness, but Alistair is the one who changes the most apart from you. From stable sleeping chantry boy to King of Ferelden - or lover/friend of super uberduber entity of awesomeness - or drunk disillusioned hairy bum - or dead. Morrigan really is just the same at the beginning as she is at the end. As is pretty much every other character apart from Alistair, except maybe Zevran who also changes a fair bit - but not in ways that advance the story.

I'd disagree.  Character development is about what the character is, not what he is doing.  If you don't harden Alistair and make him king, he's the same chump who handed over the reins to your character in Lothering.  If you do harden him, that changes things, but only a little.  (Well, if you harden him and get him to have a foursome with you I guess I'd concede he's undergone some character development!)  Being dead is not really character development, and when he goes off and becomes a drunk, that's a natural consequence of his mindset throughout the early part of the game. 

I'd say if you romance him Zevran has the most character development hands down.  By the end of the game he basically reconstructs his whole psyche. 

[nranola]

Creature 1 wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

HOWEVER, the main character in literature is the character who is changed the most by the events of the story. The one who makes the biggest journey. Now obviously that is supposed to be your PC - from ordinary mage/human/elf/dwarf/nug to hero of Ferelden and super uberduber entity of fabulousness, but Alistair is the one who changes the most apart from you. From stable sleeping chantry boy to King of Ferelden - or lover/friend of super uberduber entity of awesomeness - or drunk disillusioned hairy bum - or dead. Morrigan really is just the same at the beginning as she is at the end. As is pretty much every other character apart from Alistair, except maybe Zevran who also changes a fair bit - but not in ways that advance the story.

I'd disagree.  Character development is about what the character is, not what he is doing.  If you don't harden Alistair and make him king, he's the same chump who handed over the reins to your character in Lothering.  If you do harden him, that changes things, but only a little.  (Well, if you harden him and get him to have a foursome with you I guess I'd concede he's undergone some character development!)  Being dead is not really character development, and when he goes off and becomes a drunk, that's a natural consequence of his mindset throughout the early part of the game. 

I'd say if you romance him Zevran has the most character development hands down.  By the end of the game he basically reconstructs his whole psyche. 

All of the party members undergo a great deal of changes, if you choose to indulge in their personal problems; it's just that Alistair's change is actually tied in with the main plot. I think that's what gives the impression that he had lion's share.

Morrigan's change was pretty big, if you ask me. That speech she gives you about how grateful she is for the Warden's friendship was enough to convince me of this.

[nranola]

Oh, and something you guys might be interested in reading if you haven't already.

http://social.biowar...dex/440856&lf=8

Gaider comments about the frustrations we fans have about there being no dialogue options to talk about what happens after the Landsmeet, and a few other issues. The link isolates the writers' posts so if you want to see the whole thread (all 13 pages of it at the moment) just remove the &lf=8 at the end of the link.

[Emerald Rift]

i think all of the characters go through some change, and how they react differently to your character towards the end of the game, like when you choose your final party to fight the arch dragon and everyone says a farewell and of course the post-cornation. you can see how you treat them really affects how they go through their changes which i love about this game i agree that alistair did get more focus than the other characters. because of his tie to the story (and the fact that he is my fav character to romance)

[nos_astra]

Creature 1 wrote...
I'd say if you romance him Zevran has the most character development hands down.  By the end of the game he basically reconstructs his whole psyche.

I bet, that can count for Leliana, too. I don't think any of the characters come out of that little adventure unchanged.

Zevran probably changes the most, unless he feels forced to side with Talisien. Leliana has changed by the time you get to know her and you either reinforce that change or you let her embrace her past. Morrigan can learn about friendship or love. It may be a small change but it is one that is important.

Alistair can change but more than that you can change his life. Sometimes I have a feeling the biggest changes will come after the game ended. When he's exiled THAT has to change him a lot, same when he's King, even when he leaves the Wardens beause it's not the same. Someone once said that you can squee about Alistair because he's so sweet and adorable but you love him more for the man he has the potential to become rather than the man he is. ;-) And that's not entirely wrong.

Modifié par klarabella, 12 avril 2010 - 11:52 .

[Xandurpein]

klarabella wrote...

Alistair can change but more than that you can change his life. Sometimes I have a feeling the biggest changes will come after the game ended. When he's exiled THAT has to change him a lot, same when he's King, even when he leaves the Wardens beause it's not the same. Someone once said that you can squee about Alistair because he's so sweet and adorable but you love him more for the man he has the potential to become rather than the man he is. ;-) And that's not entirely wrong.

On the other hand, when a woman chooses a man in the hope that he will change, she is often disapointed. Why can't you just love him for the sweet, slightly goofy guy that he is, and not burden him with your hopes of improving him?

[ejoslin]

What is it they say? When a woman marries a man, she hopes she can change him but when a man marries a woman, he hopes she never changes.

[Minaleth]

I think Morrigan changes rather lot. If you told me in Lothering that by the end of game she will call my PC a friend almost with tears in eyes, I wouldn't believe you single word
Alistair is imho more a victim of the story and I agree that his major change (except for the hardening part) comes only after coronation.

Modifié par Minaleth, 12 avril 2010 - 12:24 .

[Bratt1204]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Lol guy's when I said competing I was talking about the post intake. They've got like 17980 posts which was started 3 months ago. Very impressive btw lol. We've only got 553 and this one was started 1 day ago. If you want to catch up to the Zev post count there's a lot of work that needs to be done lol.

I know what you meant. No need to explain.

lol sorry, I was hoping it wasn't taken out of context.

But anyways lets get on to how sexy and hot Alistair is 

Let's. You ladies have been busy chatting 'bout Ali while I've been sleeping.

[sylvanaerie]

klarabella wrote...

ROFL, BannHammer for king, there's a thought. *giggles*

I'll have a look at the chantry cherry. ^^

OH please yes.  Can I get some Teagan love?  That would be wonderful!!

Looks at above post...sorry I broke that with Teagan stuff...but i was catching up about 3 pages of posts since I slept.

Anyway please some Teagan love for the Teagan fans

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 12 avril 2010 - 12:40 .

[sami jo]

nranola wrote...

I guess I can understand if the other party members don't mention anything about his death, but particularly Leliana and Wynne, I just can't see why they can't be more concerned. I suppose the developers kept it this way just in case the player upped the party members' approval without having to talk to them (Feastday Gifts anyone?), so any mention about being remotely concerned about Alistair in their dialogue doesn't affect their post-coronation dialogue at all.

But then again there's the whole thing about sparing Loghain. You'd think they'd have something to say about that, considering you can hop back into camp and all. Oh well. Another void for fanwork to fill, I suppose. xD

There is some amazingly snarky party banter involving Loghain, much of it in RtO, but some elsewhere.  If you travel with him, your companions will make it quite clear to him that they are not amused by his presence.

[LadyDamodred]

Elps wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...


Yes.  As soon as I read that in The Calling, I figured the baby was Alistair.  It seems to make sense, given how much he was pushed away from thinking he had any claim to the throne.  The age thing is a really big boost to the theory, but without Gaider confirming his mother is Fiona, we cannot say definitively.  I believe it to be true, yes, and the evidence points that way, but it's not quite enough to be beyond a doubt.

Cailan is 9 years old at the time Maric and Fiona get together so although David Gaider has not said, definitively, that Alistairs origin is the same as the babe in The Calling, the time span is right. Another clue is in the fact that Duncan promises Maric that he will watch over the baby. Getting Alistair away from the templars before he can become hooked on lyrium then keeping him out of immediate danger on the frontlines at Ostagar is in keeping with a man honoring his promise to protect Maric's offspring. Another clue is in Alistair's affinity for the arcane - this would be completely in character for the son of a mage.

David Gaider cannot confirm that Fiona is Alistair's mother if this is planned to be revealed to Alistair later in the game so I guess we just have to either believe he is, or wait for an expansion of the story.

Believe me, you do not need to outline this for me.  I believe it 100%.  It's one of the reasons I so deperately want Alistair to meet her; to know that he was loved and wanted.  I was kind of miffed that she did not make an appearance in Awakening, given that she was in charge of research into the Architect.

[SurelyForth]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Believe me, you do not need to outline this for me.  I believe it 100%.  It's one of the reasons I so deperately want Alistair to meet her; to know that he was loved and wanted.  I was kind of miffed that she did not make an appearance in Awakening, given that she was in charge of research into the Architect.

Someone else pointed out to me that the Architect doesn't show himself until after the PC arrives at Amaranthine and events are too compressed for word to get to Weisshaupt and back. Still, I had hoped that she would be drawn to Ferelden when she heard about the Wardens who ended the Blight.

[nranola]

sami jo wrote...

There is some amazingly snarky party banter involving Loghain, much of it in RtO, but some elsewhere.  If you travel with him, your companions will make it quite clear to him that they are not amused by his presence.

Oh, so Loghain comments weren't completely ruled out? That's good to hear. Hmm... RtO with Loghain and Wynne... now there's an interesting thought.

[emynii]

Elps wrote...

Cailan is 9 years old at the time Maric and Fiona get together so although David Gaider has not said, definitively, that Alistairs origin is the same as the babe in The Calling, the time span is right. Another clue is in the fact that Duncan promises Maric that he will watch over the baby. Getting Alistair away from the templars before he can become hooked on lyrium then keeping him out of immediate danger on the frontlines at Ostagar is in keeping with a man honoring his promise to protect Maric's offspring. Another clue is in Alistair's affinity for the arcane - this would be completely in character for the son of a mage.

David Gaider cannot confirm that Fiona is Alistair's mother if this is planned to be revealed to Alistair later in the game so I guess we just have to either believe he is, or wait for an expansion of the story.

Cailan is actually 5 years old. There was a missprint in some of the early prints of The Calling. Here's a(n accurate) timeline (tentatively written off by DG)

9:00 - Start of the Dragon Age
9:02 - Death of Meghren
9:03 - Maric Crowned King (Age 24)
9:05 - Cailan Born
9:08 - Queen Rowan Dies
9:10 - The Calling (Cailan age 5, Maric age 31)
9:20 - Connor Born
9:25 - Maric Dissapears (Age 46), Cailan takes throne (Age 20)
9:30 - Modern Dragon Age Game

that leaves Alistair being born between 9:05 and 9:08 if we go by the story given to us in the game. If we believe that the baby at the end of the Calling is Alistair, then he was born in 9:10 or 9:11.

Modifié par emynii, 12 avril 2010 - 01:26 .