60083 réponses à ce sujet

[nos_astra]

LadyDamodred wrote...

nranola wrote...

Awww, poor baby! Maybe he could... use a little help with that tummy ache, eh? *shifty eyes* >U>

A kiss to make it feel better, eh? 

I think this icon is strangely fitting:

[Addai]

LadyDamodred wrote...
Believe me, you do not need to outline this for me.  I believe it 100%.  It's one of the reasons I so deperately want Alistair to meet her; to know that he was loved and wanted.  I was kind of miffed that she did not make an appearance in Awakening, given that she was in charge of research into the Architect.

Would this be his reaction, though?  It's going to take a lot of explaining to demonstrate how abandoning him was the loving thing to do.

No mistake, I'm on Team Fiona, but I don't think this is going to be a simple reunion if this is how it turns out.

I had hoped for an appearance in Awakening, too, if only brief, like a letter from Weisshaupt or something.  But hopefully her absence there means there are bigger plans for her later.

[errant_knight]

Xandurpein wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Alistair can change but more than that you can change his life. Sometimes I have a feeling the biggest changes will come after the game ended. When he's exiled THAT has to change him a lot, same when he's King, even when he leaves the Wardens beause it's not the same. Someone once said that you can squee about Alistair because he's so sweet and adorable but you love him more for the man he has the potential to become rather than the man he is. ;-) And that's not entirely wrong.

On the other hand, when a woman chooses a man in the hope that he will change, she is often disapointed. Why can't you just love him for the sweet, slightly goofy guy that he is, and not burden him with your hopes of improving him?

Because you aren't actually changing him. Both the like to implement your discussion wigh Alistair that has such an effect on him is clumsy, as has been discussed to death, as is the terminology referring to it--he isn't a harder person in any way--but the idea that you're putting forward isn't that extreme, however important it might be. You're basically telling a good, noble, and capable man that that's what he is, and that he should believe in himself and act on that. He doesn't become 'harder', he still cares about the people. He's still sweet-natured and a little goofy at times. His sense of humor stays the same. If convincing someone that they are capable, and are deserving of happiness and respect is a bad thing, then psychologists are doing bad things everyday.

[Addai]

imported_beer wrote...

The companion that I was most worried about was Dog.
 
Who'd take care of him if I died?

Alistair, of course!  Or whichever LI you had.

I posted this else-thread, but when I was contemplating doing a US ending with my HNF, the saddest thing I conjured up about it was imagining her saying goodbye to her mabari and telling him he had to guard Alistair now.  I could picture Alistair looking up at Fort Drakon (like they show Teagan doing), and the mabari howling as he somehow knows what has happened.  In the end I couldn't do it, of course, and Morrigan got her god baby.

As luck would have it, on that character I happened to notice that her mabari was sticking like glue to Alistair during the gates scene where you don't control party members.  It was just game serendipity, I'm sure, but I like to imagine that Dog was doing what she had ordered him to do- watch Alistair's back as well as hers. 

[Addai]

Xandurpein wrote...

On the other hand, when a woman chooses a man in the hope that he will change, she is often disapointed. Why can't you just love him for the sweet, slightly goofy guy that he is, and not burden him with your hopes of improving him?

All of the LI's, and many other NPC's as well, can be profoundly changed by interaction with the PC.  It's how the story is set up. 

[LadyDamodred]

Addai67 wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
Believe me, you do not need to outline this for me.  I believe it 100%.  It's one of the reasons I so deperately want Alistair to meet her; to know that he was loved and wanted.  I was kind of miffed that she did not make an appearance in Awakening, given that she was in charge of research into the Architect.

Would this be his reaction, though?  It's going to take a lot of explaining to demonstrate how abandoning him was the loving thing to do.

No mistake, I'm on Team Fiona, but I don't think this is going to be a simple reunion if this is how it turns out.

I had hoped for an appearance in Awakening, too, if only brief, like a letter from Weisshaupt or something.  But hopefully her absence there means there are bigger plans for her later.

I am actually debating this right now for my long fic.  I don't know if I want Fiona to tell him, especially once she sees how it has affected him.  She never really realized what his life was like, and she's dealing with a lot of guilt and regret.  Alistair, for his part, if she does tell him, is probably going to be pretty pissed.  Like, really, really pissed.  If she does tell him, it would be because she wants him to know that it wasn't Maric's fault.  She's okay with Alistair hating her if it means he could forgive his father.

Alistair's reaction should not be 'Oh, yay, I have a mom!'  But I still want him to know.  I think he deserves to know that he wasn't unwanted and unloved, and he especially deserves to know about Duncan, if nothing else.  These are deep, complicated emotions.  Any telling is going to be messy.

[LadyDamodred]

imported_beer wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
I see it more as Band of Brothers than graduating from high school.  .

THIS THIS THIS!

Also, shameful confession

The companion that I was most worried about was Dog.
 
Who'd take care of him if I died?

He was with me from the start, my most devoted friend, the only one who loved my PC unconditionally and man...I...I had to take some time from the game in the playthrough where I played a HNF who refused the dark ritual because I was so tortured about the thought of Dog being alone.  Eventually I made up a story in my head that Sten took care of him because they had such a bond.

But the dog decision was probably more responsible for my wanting to stay alive in subsequent playthroughs- more than ANY other companion.

I am pathetic. I know.

I know I already posted this in the themesong thread, but I'll repost here:

 <--- theme song for Lya asking Alistair to take care of Dog should the worst happen.  This song makes me cry all the time.

Rewatching the video, I found it interesting that the kid with the dog has dark hair, and his friend is blond, kinda like my Lya and Alistair.  And the hairstyles kind of match.  >.>

[cmessaz]

Hey guys, not to change the subject or anything, but I have taken some screenshots in game, and uploaded them. However they are not appearing anywhere. What am I doing wrong?

[Raiil]

I disagree that there's no change in Alistair, other than being more open to being King. He's a bit more ruthless now, even if it's for the greater good. Case in point: When you come across Jowan, you can kill him, yes? Softie Alistair disapproves -5. If you've hardened him, you get +2 approval.



In the toolkit, when you look at the conversation that hardens Alistair, it says:



SET: ALISTAIR_HARDENED

ACTION: change main motivation from good to glory





He's under going a fundamental shift of personality. He retains his general goodness and kindness, but... ultimately I think hardening him allows him to be a bit more selfish and out for himself. It's only luck that allows him to keep his good nature.

[LadyDamodred]

Uploaded them where?

[cmessaz]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Uploaded them where?

I dunno, I just clicked upload. I assumed they would be in my screenshots section.

[Addai]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Alistair's reaction should not be 'Oh, yay, I have a mom!'  But I still want him to know.  I think he deserves to know that he wasn't unwanted and unloved, and he especially deserves to know about Duncan, if nothing else.  These are deep, complicated emotions.  Any telling is going to be messy.

Yes, if this is his parentage then I hope he does find out, too.  He would know that his father wasn't just sleeping around with servant girls, for one thing.  He doesn't say it very overtly, but you do get the sense that he resents Maric.  He seems to hope more that his mother would have cared for him, judging by the fact that he kept her amulet.  Which makes it all the more a kick in the gut when that rassin' frassin' Goldanna says "you killed our mother, you did."  I literally winced the first time I heard that line.

[SurelyForth]

LadyDamodred wrote...

I am actually debating this right now for my long fic.  I don't know if I want Fiona to tell him, especially once she sees how it has affected him.  She never really realized what his life was like, and she's dealing with a lot of guilt and regret.  Alistair, for his part, if she does tell him, is probably going to be pretty pissed.  Like, really, really pissed.  If she does tell him, it would be because she wants him to know that it wasn't Maric's fault.  She's okay with Alistair hating her if it means he could forgive his father.

Alistair's reaction should not be 'Oh, yay, I have a mom!'  But I still want him to know.  I think he deserves to know that he wasn't unwanted and unloved, and he especially deserves to know about Duncan, if nothing else.  These are deep, complicated emotions.  Any telling is going to be messy.

The way I iwrote it, my PC told him. The scenario had more to do with circumstances but I can see having the news come from someone he trusts softening the blow a bit. I'm also all for keeping Fiona from seeing his immediate hurt/angry reaction. Even if she is ok with him hating her and thinks she deserves it, I can't imagine that would feel very good.

[LadyDamodred]

Valentia X wrote...

I disagree that there's no change in Alistair, other than being more open to being King. He's a bit more ruthless now, even if it's for the greater good. Case in point: When you come across Jowan, you can kill him, yes? Softie Alistair disapproves -5. If you've hardened him, you get +2 approval.

In the toolkit, when you look at the conversation that hardens Alistair, it says:

SET: ALISTAIR_HARDENED
ACTION: change main motivation from good to glory


He's under going a fundamental shift of personality. He retains his general goodness and kindness, but... ultimately I think hardening him allows him to be a bit more selfish and out for himself. It's only luck that allows him to keep his good nature.

I don't think it's luck that let's him keep his good nature.  I think the hardening process teaches him, basically, that its okay to be a little selfish and do what you want sometimes.  I think part of that is Alistair learning he doesn't always have to subliminate his feelings, as well as his actions.  He might still have to follow you, but he's now willing to voice his real opinion on certain things.  He is still the same genuine, good person inside.

As for the good -> glory shift, that's also understandable.  He doesn't want to be a nobody, it's just something he's been told his entire life.  He's now in a position where he doesn't have to sit back and take it anymore.

[LadyDamodred]

cmessaz wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Uploaded them where?

I dunno, I just clicked upload. I assumed they would be in my screenshots section.

For me, when I hit print screen, the pics go to my Screenshots -> User folder.  Not sure where you're hitting upload,

[Raiil]

That would be an awesome side quest in DA2, if they kept some of the original companions. I'd like to meet Fiona as well.





I don't know if Alistair would flip his lid right off the bat. I imagine it would be more along the lines of pulling the PC aside and having... well, not exactly a nervous breakdown, but more like 'omgokaymymumsanelfandawardenandwtfineedadrinkwatdoido' until the PC calms him down (or pisses him off, for those so inclined).



I also find it interesting because... well, because I really don't like Arl Eamon and I'd like to see Alistair lose his **** on the old jerk for lying to him for years.

[errant_knight]

Valentia X wrote...

I disagree that there's no change in Alistair, other than being more open to being King. He's a bit more ruthless now, even if it's for the greater good. Case in point: When you come across Jowan, you can kill him, yes? Softie Alistair disapproves -5. If you've hardened him, you get +2 approval.

In the toolkit, when you look at the conversation that hardens Alistair, it says:

SET: ALISTAIR_HARDENED
ACTION: change main motivation from good to glory


He's under going a fundamental shift of personality. He retains his general goodness and kindness, but... ultimately I think hardening him allows him to be a bit more selfish and out for himself. It's only luck that allows him to keep his good nature.

It also says he's 32, and even though I think he's older than his teens or early twenties, I suspect he's a wee bit younger than that. That may not even have been written by someone who knew how the character was going to evolve. It's simply not borne out by his words or actions. Nowhere in the game do we see Alistair motivated by anything other than duty, honor or love, even after the so badly named 'hardening.' I can't think of a single instance of him going so glory and not good.

[errant_knight]

Valentia X wrote...

I disagree that there's no change in Alistair, other than being more open to being King. He's a bit more ruthless now, even if it's for the greater good. Case in point: When you come across Jowan, you can kill him, yes? Softie Alistair disapproves -5. If you've hardened him, you get +2 approval.

In the toolkit, when you look at the conversation that hardens Alistair, it says:

SET: ALISTAIR_HARDENED
ACTION: change main motivation from good to glory


He's under going a fundamental shift of personality. He retains his general goodness and kindness, but... ultimately I think hardening him allows him to be a bit more selfish and out for himself. It's only luck that allows him to keep his good nature.

It also says he's 32, and even though I think he's older than his teens or early twenties, I suspect he's a wee bit younger than that. That may not even have been written by someone who knew how the character was going to evolve. It's simply not borne out by his words or actions. Nowhere in the game do we see Alistair motivated by anything other than duty, honor or love, even after the so badly named 'hardening.' I can't think of a single instance of him going so glory and not good. Is

[errant_knight]

Valentia X wrote...

I disagree that there's no change in Alistair, other than being more open to being King. He's a bit more ruthless now, even if it's for the greater good. Case in point: When you come across Jowan, you can kill him, yes? Softie Alistair disapproves -5. If you've hardened him, you get +2 approval.

In the toolkit, when you look at the conversation that hardens Alistair, it says:

SET: ALISTAIR_HARDENED
ACTION: change main motivation from good to glory


He's under going a fundamental shift of personality. He retains his general goodness and kindness, but... ultimately I think hardening him allows him to be a bit more selfish and out for himself. It's only luck that allows him to keep his good nature.

It also says he's 32, and even though I think he's older than his teens or early twenties, I suspect he's a wee bit younger than that. That may not even have been written by someone who knew how the character was going to evolve. It's simply not borne out by his words or actions. Nowhere in the game do we see Alistair motivated by anything other than duty, honor or love, even after the so badly named 'hardening.' I can't think of a single instance of him going so glory and not good. Is it selfish to stand up for your deepest held beliefs, or not to let others walk all over you? I don't think so.

Modifié par errant_knight, 12 avril 2010 - 03:39 .

[LadyDamodred]

Addai67 wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Alistair's reaction should not be 'Oh, yay, I have a mom!'  But I still want him to know.  I think he deserves to know that he wasn't unwanted and unloved, and he especially deserves to know about Duncan, if nothing else.  These are deep, complicated emotions.  Any telling is going to be messy.

Yes, if this is his parentage then I hope he does find out, too.  He would know that his father wasn't just sleeping around with servant girls, for one thing.  He doesn't say it very overtly, but you do get the sense that he resents Maric.  He seems to hope more that his mother would have cared for him, judging by the fact that he kept her amulet.  Which makes it all the more a kick in the gut when that rassin' frassin' Goldanna says "you killed our mother, you did."  I literally winced the first time I heard that line.

The amulet is because I think he hopes she would have loved him.  He never got to know.  As for resenting Maric... Yes.  "And now they were at Redcliffe, where everything would change, and Alistair had never hated Maric more than he did at that moment."  Stolen from an as-yet unpublished fic.  I think it describes it adequately.

SurelyForth wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

I am actually debating this right now for my long fic.  I don't know if I want Fiona to tell him, especially once she sees how it has affected him.  She never really realized what his life was like, and she's dealing with a lot of guilt and regret.  Alistair, for his part, if she does tell him, is probably going to be pretty pissed.  Like, really, really pissed.  If she does tell him, it would be because she wants him to know that it wasn't Maric's fault.  She's okay with Alistair hating her if it means he could forgive his father.

Alistair's reaction should not be 'Oh, yay, I have a mom!'  But I still want him to know.  I think he deserves to know that he wasn't unwanted and unloved, and he especially deserves to know about Duncan, if nothing else.  These are deep, complicated emotions.  Any telling is going to be messy.

The way I iwrote it, my PC told him. The scenario had more to do with circumstances but I can see having the news come from someone he trusts softening the blow a bit. I'm also all for keeping Fiona from seeing his immediate hurt/angry reaction. Even if she is ok with him hating her and thinks she deserves it, I can't imagine that would feel very good.

Oh, she already knows his hurt/angry feelings.  It's too late for that.  She also wouldn't want the info to come from anyone but her.  It's important enough to her to want to be the one to tell him, and she doesn't think he deserves to hear it second hand.  And no, it won't feel good. That's the point.  She made a decision that affected him in a horribly profound way and she has to live it the consequences now.  Hmmm, I think my choice has been made regarding whether or not she's going to tell him.

[Raiil]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

I disagree that there's no change in Alistair, other than being more open to being King. He's a bit more ruthless now, even if it's for the greater good. Case in point: When you come across Jowan, you can kill him, yes? Softie Alistair disapproves -5. If you've hardened him, you get +2 approval.

In the toolkit, when you look at the conversation that hardens Alistair, it says:

SET: ALISTAIR_HARDENED
ACTION: change main motivation from good to glory


He's under going a fundamental shift of personality. He retains his general goodness and kindness, but... ultimately I think hardening him allows him to be a bit more selfish and out for himself. It's only luck that allows him to keep his good nature.

I don't think it's luck that let's him keep his good nature.  I think the hardening process teaches him, basically, that its okay to be a little selfish and do what you want sometimes.  I think part of that is Alistair learning he doesn't always have to subliminate his feelings, as well as his actions.  He might still have to follow you, but he's now willing to voice his real opinion on certain things.  He is still the same genuine, good person inside.

As for the good -> glory shift, that's also understandable.  He doesn't want to be a nobody, it's just something he's been told his entire life.  He's now in a position where he doesn't have to sit back and take it anymore.

Oh, I wasn't trying to suggest that hardening Alistair would turn him into, well, Zevran or anyone. But it is luck imo, because a lot of people in his shoes would become a lot nastier, considering his background and everything he's going through. Well, luck being game mechanics in this case. He could be a lot colder, more willing to kill and be more like what Wardens ultimately are- those who will do anything to stop a Blight. (I love Alistair's character, he ties with Shale as favoured companion but tbh, we both make **** Wardens.)

[cmessaz]

LadyDamodred wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Uploaded them where?

I dunno, I just clicked upload. I assumed they would be in my screenshots section.

For me, when I hit print screen, the pics go to my Screenshots -> User folder.  Not sure where you're hitting upload,

Oh yeah.....I knew that.

[LadyDamodred]

Maybe more Wardens need to be like us. *buffs her nails on her shirt* We *are* ridiculously awesome. We should give classes, or something.