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[Thor Rand Al]

cmessaz wrote...

I head that too. I am a mage, so I really want to see what happens if I side with the Templars.

Lol I've yet to go that route.  I had made the mistake when I first started playing and sided with the Templar's with Gregory but I got another chance to fix that mistake I believe after the Fade.

[Thor Rand Al]

Serissia wrote...

Aww I missed an Eamon is a dick conversation.  Eamon is not only a dick he's a conniving dick, no matter if you make yourself Chancellor he somehow worms his way in as Alistair's second by Awakening. 

Eamon and Isolde both sound so incredibly insincere when they thank the PC too for going out of his/her way to say Isolde and Connor both. 

I know I saw that n I was going wtf, but then I was thinking enjoy it while you can Eamon, I am coming back and your going bye bye again lmao

[Sandtigress]

Lady Jess wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...

Yeah, I have no problems with Alistair having been kept out of court.  Its the undermining of his self-confidence and that he believes that he has no self-worth because of the way that he was raised that just kills me, and THAT is Eamon's fault, intentional or not.

But was it Eamon that did it? Or The Chantry? He tells you the chantry knew, and he was all of 10 years old when he got there, and what...about 20(?) when you meet him, having only been recruited 6 months before. It would be just as easy to assume that yes Eamon (actually I blame Isolde) made him sleep in the stables, and convinced him he was a commoner, and in no way in line for the throne...but that the 10 or so years in the chantry damaged his self esteem that badly. And yeah Eamon sent him there, but again...Isolde...witch that she is, had a large part in that.

Well, Isolde coming into the picture is the catalyst that caused Alistair to be sent to the Chantry, so we can assume she wasn't there for all 10 years of his life prior to that, I think.  And really, if Eamon couldn't stand up to his wife to keep a child out of the stables and the dog pens when they went to Denerim, then he's pretty pathetic.  I can understand sending him elsewhere i.e. the Chantry, to keep the peace, but if the boy was living otherwise and then got sent to the stables...shame on Eamon.

I wouldn't say it was the Chantry itself that was the problem - maybe the other boys he lived with (i.e. the commoners and highborn who all treated him badly).  But he says he enjoyed his training and education and took solace in that, even if he didn't want to be a templar.  I would suspect it was just the fact that he was going to be forced into that life that really bothered him - that and the fact that he would never have a family of his own as a templar.

[Thor Rand Al]

Lady Jess wrote...
But was it Eamon that did it? Or The Chantry? He tells you the chantry knew, and he was all of 10 years old when he got there, and what...about 20(?) when you meet him, having only been recruited 6 months before. It would be just as easy to assume that yes Eamon (actually I blame Isolde) made him sleep in the stables, and convinced him he was a commoner, and in no way in line for the throne...but that the 10 or so years in the chantry damaged his self esteem that badly. And yeah Eamon sent him there, but again...Isolde...witch that she is, had a large part in that.

The way Isolde reacts to seeing Alistair in Redcliff, I'm more inclined to believe she might have been the one to make Alistair's life a living hell when he was a child before he went to the Chantry, like sleeping in the stables.

[mellifera]

Even if it was all Isolde's idea, Eamon still allowed it to happen. He could have put his foot down or have sent him elsewhere before making him sleep in stables and with dogs.

[Sarah1281]

I had a thought for all of you Anora execution proponants. Wouldn't it seem likely that she probably died during the seige of Denerim?

Since Anora is Queen if Alistair dies (and hardened Alistair even names her his heir) and everyone knew it, there's no way the would just leave her there to die or escape.

I think if you use this line, "I think it turned out rather well, don't you?" you won't lose any approval with him. I'm not sure cause I've never tested it myself but it you want to go that route then try that line.

Which is absolutely ridiculous because if he's so pised you killed Isolde or Connor you blissfully remarking that things turned out great should make him more angry, not convince him you're right.

[cmessaz]

Yeah I'm starting to tip to the hate Eamon side again. "Eamon would have a heart attack" if Alistair helped fight darkspawn, but doesn't care that the king's wife is. And after his letters to Cailen, you just wonder what he is saying in your absence.

The slide I would add wouldn't appear if Anora was ruler. Only if Alistair is. This would be optional for those who don't want it. Just some people want a kill Anora mod and this is an easy way to kill her off.

Modifié par cmessaz, 27 avril 2010 - 05:55 .

[Addai]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...

I like that ending but I won't use that playthrough if i'm going to be playing Awakenings.  I got to get my Alistair fix in Awakenings too lmao

Oh, I mean make him king but your PC goes off to rebuild the Wardens.  I figure that once Amaranthine is established, you can come back to Denerim and base yourself out of there.  And if you do that, Ali comes to be by your side etc.

So if you don't tell Ander's in Awakenings your going back to court, but that your going to stay with the Wardens you get a different ending card even if your married to Alistair???

No, I meant you get a different ending card in Origins if you rebuild the Wardens vs. stay at court.

[Serissia]

Sandtigress wrote...
Well, Isolde coming into the picture is the catalyst that caused Alistair to be sent to the Chantry, so we can assume she wasn't there for all 10 years of his life prior to that, I think.  And really, if Eamon couldn't stand up to his wife to keep a child out of the stables and the dog pens when they went to Denerim, then he's pretty pathetic.  I can understand sending him elsewhere i.e. the Chantry, to keep the peace, but if the boy was living otherwise and then got sent to the stables...shame on Eamon.

I wouldn't say it was the Chantry itself that was the problem - maybe the other boys he lived with (i.e. the commoners and highborn who all treated him badly).  But he says he enjoyed his training and education and took solace in that, even if he didn't want to be a templar.  I would suspect it was just the fact that he was going to be forced into that life that really bothered him - that and the fact that he would never have a family of his own as a templar.

This is oddly a contridiction between the Codex and the game.  According to the Codex Isolde and Eamon might while he was still in the rebellion. Isolde's family were the Orlaisian rulers of Redcliff during the occupation.  Isolde had no idea that Eamon was the true Arl.  She in theory fell in love w/ him because he was a dashing rebel.  Of course the irony in that is if Eamon did return from the Free Marshes to fight in the rebellion it wasn't until near the very end of the war.  There's no mention of him doing such in TST.

The whole afraid concerning Alistair's true parentage is vastly confusing.  If Alistair is indeed Fiona's son than Eamon and Islode should of already been married for a few years when Alistair was given over to Eamon.  If Alistair really the son of a serving girl than Eamon and Isolde would of just been getting married around the time of his birth.  Either way the time line doesn't add up in the least if the Codex is true.

[cmessaz]

Thats what I always thought! The timeline doesn't seem right!
I have a similar situation in my life with my little sister and my dad. When she was 12 my parents divorced, my mom went to a nuthouse and my dad remarried. His new wife hated my sister and made her life hell, until finally I had enough and had her move in with me. My dad was (and is still) so whipped by this woman that he wouldn't defend his own daughter. It was very traumatic for her. I sort of see the same thing with Alistair. I feel sorry for my dad, because he is so scared to lose his wife that he won't defend his daughter, but honestly he is kind of an a** for it. Hence why I sort of bounce back and forth on Eamon.

Modifié par cmessaz, 27 avril 2010 - 06:01 .

[Sarah1281]

Yeah I'm starting to tip to the hate Eamon side again. "Eamon would have a heart attack" if Alistair helped fight darkspawn, but doesn't care that the king's wife is. And after his letters to Cailen, you just wonder what he is saying in your absence.

Maybe it's because you're already there. When Cailan wanted to go off fighting darkspawn that was fine because Anora was there. If Alistair watned to run off to fight darkspawn then his Queen would need to be ruling. Both monarchs running off to rebuild one arling and leavng the bannorn with the remnants of the civil war and the throne empty would cause some problems. And that's actually a point in Eamon's favor in my book as if he were really interested in a puppet he'd be happy to send the nominal King off to go have fun in Amaranthine while he got down to business.

[Addai]

The real reason that Valena screams in my current game.

[Serissia]

cmessaz wrote...
Yeah I'm starting to tip to the hate Eamon side again. "Eamon would have a heart attack" if Alistair helped fight darkspawn, but doesn't care that the king's wife is. And after his letters to Cailen, you just wonder what he is saying in your absence..

Oh that's easy...

Alistair has just returned to Denerim from Amaranthine...

Eamon, "I trust your trip went well?"
Alistair, "There were... complications."
Eamon, "I'm sure it's nothing that (HNF) can't handle."
Alistair, "Perhaps but I wish I didn't have to ask her to put herself in harms way yet again..."
Eamon, "Yes, we wouldn't want anything to... happen to her."

I would say Eamon is tactful enough to wait maybe a month until bring up the subject of Alistair making an heir w/ someone else in (HNF) absense.

[cmessaz]

The letters he wrote to Cailen just about do it for me, regardless. You know he is saying the same stuff to Alistair.

Yep. Serissia has pushed me back to the Eamon hating side.

Modifié par cmessaz, 27 avril 2010 - 06:03 .

[Thor Rand Al]

Addai67 wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...

I like that ending but I won't use that playthrough if i'm going to be playing Awakenings.  I got to get my Alistair fix in Awakenings too lmao

Oh, I mean make him king but your PC goes off to rebuild the Wardens.  I figure that once Amaranthine is established, you can come back to Denerim and base yourself out of there.  And if you do that, Ali comes to be by your side etc.

So if you don't tell Ander's in Awakenings your going back to court, but that your going to stay with the Wardens you get a different ending card even if your married to Alistair???

No, I meant you get a different ending card in Origins if you rebuild the Wardens vs. stay at court.

Oh ya lol, I got that one.  It is really sweet n romantic.  I had one of my HNF pc's do that ending, screw this nobility crap, her n Alistair were damn good at killing DS and so they made a living of it together lmao.

[Thor Rand Al]

Serissia wrote...

cmessaz wrote...
Yeah I'm starting to tip to the hate Eamon side again. "Eamon would have a heart attack" if Alistair helped fight darkspawn, but doesn't care that the king's wife is. And after his letters to Cailen, you just wonder what he is saying in your absence..

Oh that's easy...

Alistair has just returned to Denerim from Amaranthine...

Eamon, "I trust your trip went well?"
Alistair, "There were... complications."
Eamon, "I'm sure it's nothing that (HNF) can't handle."
Alistair, "Perhaps but I wish I didn't have to ask her to put herself in harms way yet again..."
Eamon, "Yes, we wouldn't want anything to... happen to her."

I would say Eamon is tactful enough to wait maybe a month until bring up the subject of Alistair making an heir w/ someone else in (HNF) absense.

And yes I could see this happening but I also see Alistair telling him where to shove it too .  Especially if he's hardened lmao

[cmessaz]

Thor-I don't know about that. Eamon is Alistair's father figure and he looks up to him. I bet eventually he would give in.

[Lady Jess]

Ok, now I feel all skeevy about making him king just so I can have my moment in Awakenings! Ugh!

[Serissia]

cmessaz wrote...
Thats what I always thought! The timeline doesn't seem right!
I have a similar situation in my life with my little sister and my dad. When she was 12 my parents divorced, my mom went to a nuthouse and my dad remarried. His new wife hated my sister and made her life hell, until finally I had enough and had her move in with me. My dad was (and is still) so whipped by this woman that he wouldn't defend his own daughter. It was very traumatic for her. I sort of see the same thing with Alistair. I feel sorry for my dad, because he is so scared to lose his wife that he won't defend his daughter, but honestly he is kind of an a** for it. Hence why I sort of bounce back and forth on Eamon.

Sounds like my mother, she never defended me aganist my abusive drug addled father for fear of losing him.  You're far more forgiving than I.  I think my mother is a waste of space. 

This is why people should need a license to breed.

Honestly I think the only reason Eamon would have a heart attack over Alistair putting himself at risk is because Alistair doesn't have an heir yet.  If Alistair had an heir I bet Eamon would of eargerly taken over a regent. 

If you consider Eamon's actions at the Landsmeet he's all about self preservation.  At the point in time when Awakening is going on if Alistair was to fall it would throw the country back into civil war.  If Eamon were to push for the throne at that point he would be seen as no better than Loghain had been.  Fergus would have a stronger claim to the throne than Eamon.  The Cousland's are the second strongest/well regarded family in Ferelden. 

[cmessaz]

Yes, I forgot about the fact that he doesn't defend Alistair if Anora wants him executed. That was the biggest reason I started hating him. Not a single freaking word in Alistair's defense. That is also the main reason I hate Anora as well. Kill Alistair just because he is Maric's son? And she goes on about preserving Maric's throne. I think Lady Cousland and Alistair need to just get rid of Eamon and adopt a child in secret , or just choose Fergus or his children as the heirs upon their death. That seems likely what would happen anyway.

And about my dad, I never had the problem, he was good to me and my parents divorced after I had started my own life. My sister was at a vulnerable age, and she doesn't forgive him.

Modifié par cmessaz, 27 avril 2010 - 06:20 .

[Serissia]

I think hardened Alistair might stand up to Eamon but only after Eamon finally reached Alistair's breaking point. After all even Cailan basically told Eamon he was a dick.



Eamon's meddling along side Cailan's stupidity/stubbornness cost Ostagar all of Eamon's troops. Eamon's troops were less than a week out from Ostagar the only reason not to summon them would have been Cailan's resentment towards Eamon.



Thus everything once again comes full circle... Eamon and Loghain = DICKS

[Thor Rand Al]

cmessaz wrote...

Thor-I don't know about that. Eamon is Alistair's father figure and he looks up to him. I bet eventually he would give in.

If Alistair is as in love with the PC as the ending cards suggest, if you're Alistair's chancellor there's been no contact with Eamon until now then I think Alistair would be very suspicious of Eamon all of a sudden bringing this up especially with the PC out of the picture at the moment.  As Alistair says when you get ready to talk to him about the Morrigan ritual, "I'm tired but I'm not stupid." 
And Duncan was the father figure.  He respects Eamon but I don't think that much.

[mellifera]

I can definitely understand King Alistair not staying with you in Amaranthine. Why Warden Alistair doesn't join you if we're pretty much letting anyone in out of necessity I still haven't made heads or tails of.



(Why couldn't we make a bunch of fodder Wardens before we get to the Archdemon in Origins anyway? :xxxx)

[cmessaz]

I'm not upset about Alistair not being in awakening as king, but the Eamon comment gets me. Screw what Eamon thinks. I have to rule would be an acceptable excuse.

Yeah I fear I have to go back to my Eamon is a dick theory. Thanks for putting it back into perspective for me Serissia!

Modifié par cmessaz, 27 avril 2010 - 06:22 .

[Serissia]

cmessaz wrote...

Yes, I forgot about the fact that he doesn't defend Alistair if Anora wants him executed. That was the biggest reason I started hating him. Not a single freaking word in Alistair's defense. That is also the main reason I hate Anora as well. Kill Alistair just because he is Maric's son? And she goes on about preserving Maric's throne. I think Lady Cousland and Alistair need to just get rid of Eamon and adopt a child in secret , or just choose Fergus or his children as the heirs upon their death. That seems likely what would happen anyway.

The HNF/Alistair marriage combo has a few options when it comes to chosing a heir.  This one of the reasons I never feel bad about making myself Queen.  As you said one of Fergus's children could but made their heir.  If Alistair wanted to preserve the Theirin line he could always find someone that looks similar to his Queen and have a child w/ her.  Basically pay the women off to be the equivalent of a medieval low tech surrogate.  She has the child then hands it over to King/Queen to raise and disapears forever with a tidy sum of Sovereigns.