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[Aisynia]

thegreateski wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

See the "Ferelden will have to live without it's golden age". In a golden age, I would assume that the conditions for people would improve, more than in a regular age.

There's no way for your PC to know this.  As far as we know, Anora has presided over the country descending into civil war and nearly being destroyed by a Blight.  Not exactly an advertisement for her mad queen skillz.

My Dalish warden set up the marriage to Anora, but since Alistair dueled Loghain and then took his head, Anora herself decided there would be no golden age.

Eh. She was the one ruling the country before Cailan died. The whole Civil war and Darkspawn problem is Loghain's fault.

Pretty much. Cailan was utterly incompetant, she was pulling the strings the entire time. She did love Cailan though, from everything we know.

[Addai]

thegreateski wrote...
Eh. She was the one ruling the country before Cailan died. The whole Civil war and Darkspawn problem is Loghain's fault.

And Loghain being in a position to do what he did is her fault.  If the buck can't stop with her, then she's an ineffectual ruler.  Either way, she's not indispensable.

[thegreateski]

Addai67 wrote...

thegreateski wrote...
Eh. She was the one ruling the country before Cailan died. The whole Civil war and Darkspawn problem is Loghain's fault.

And Loghain being in a position to do what he did is her fault.  If the buck can't stop with her, then she's an ineffectual ruler.  Either way, she's not indispensable.

What's she going to do? Kill or imprison her father who is also a national hero of Ferelden due to his military prowess?

Modifié par thegreateski, 27 avril 2010 - 09:04 .

[cmessaz]

thegreateski wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

thegreateski wrote...
Eh. She was the one ruling the country before Cailan died. The whole Civil war and Darkspawn problem is Loghain's fault.

And Loghain being in a position to do what he did is her fault.  If the buck can't stop with her, then she's an ineffectual ruler.  Either way, she's not indispensable.

What's she going to do? Kill or imprison her father who is also a national hero of Ferelden?

The point is that she was not strong enough as queen to stand up to her father and prevent him from doing the things he did as regent. She saw an opportunity when the Warden comes to speak against Loghain and uses her sneakiness to get "into bed" with the warden so he/she would support her. She is manipulative, Loghain basically tells you that she lied about the whole life endangered thing. I won't make her queen even when I don't romance Alistair. Only time she is queen for me is if my PC marries her, and he has his own agenda at that point.

Modifié par cmessaz, 27 avril 2010 - 09:08 .

[Addai]

thegreateski wrote...
What's she going to do? Kill or imprison her father who is also a national hero of Ferelden due to his military prowess?

You can make excuses for her all you like.  Her boasting about being the one ruling a country that's in civil war and poised to be a smoking ruin sounds pretty hollow.  My Dalish warden set up the marriage because she suspected the deal could save Alistair's life.  Especially as an elf, she was not impressed by Anora's claims.  Anora would have made a greater case if she had said "look at the mess Cailan made of things, now it's my turn, give me a chance."

[phaonica]

  Anora would have made a greater case if she had said "look at the mess Cailan made of things, now it's my turn, give me a chance."

So she couldnt' do anything about Cailan, but she's expected to do something about Loghain?

[thegreateski]

cmessaz wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

thegreateski wrote...
Eh. She was the one ruling the country before Cailan died. The whole Civil war and Darkspawn problem is Loghain's fault.

And Loghain being in a position to do what he did is her fault.  If the buck can't stop with her, then she's an ineffectual ruler.  Either way, she's not indispensable.

What's she going to do? Kill or imprison her father who is also a national hero of Ferelden?

The point is that she was not strong enough as queen to stand up to her father and prevent him from doing the things he did as regent.

Umm . . . what did he do as Regent that was so politically horrible?

Get into a fight with the nobles? Seemed to me that both sides were itching to fight each other. The nobles wanted a fight because Loghin wasn't a noble himself and had proclaimed to be Anora's Regent. Loghain wanted a fight because the nobles wouldn't kneel down and help him deal with the Darkspawn (and other threats . . .)

[Addai]

cmessaz wrote...
 She is manipulative, Loghain basically tells you that she lied about the whole life endangered thing.

She will admit that herself if she betrays you in the Landsmeet.  I kind of like that route.  It's good to see Anora's deception and Loghain's ruthlessness on display.  It also makes it all seem more grave when you get to hear Loghain calling for yours, Alistair's and Eamon's execution.

 
I won't make her queen even when I don't romance Alistair. Only time she is queen for me is if my PC marries her, and he has his own agenda at that point.

Marrying hardened Alistair to Anora, especially if you stay on as mistress and/or chancellor, is basically the same.  If Alistair is hardened, Anora is not going to get her way.

[cmessaz]

Wow. Are we getting into another Loghain isn't so bad argument? Let me grab my notes....

Seriously though, I have no urge to go there again. I just state my opinion and if one disagrees than that is fine. I hate Anora. She is a terrible person and the fact that she can side with her husband's murderer gets me, for someone who "loved him" and she has no problem executing Alistiar just for being Maric's son. There is going to be no production of an heir in any scenareo, so I don't see the point in marrying them anyway. If everyone else wants to make her queen and Alistair's wife in their game, then more power to ya. That is just how I play and see things.

Modifié par cmessaz, 27 avril 2010 - 09:16 .

[thegreateski]

Addai67 wrote...

thegreateski wrote...
What's she going to do? Kill or imprison her father who is also a national hero of Ferelden due to his military prowess?

You can make excuses for her all you like.  Her boasting about being the one ruling a country that's in civil war and poised to be a smoking ruin sounds pretty hollow.  My Dalish warden set up the marriage because she suspected the deal could save Alistair's life.  Especially as an elf, she was not impressed by Anora's claims.  Anora would have made a greater case if she had said "look at the mess Cailan made of things, now it's my turn, give me a chance."

What? excuses? This is a fact. Anora can't "command" the Darkspawn to stop destroying the country or the Nobles to stop fighting each other. That's nuts.

(Cailan did not make a mess. Loghain did.)

Modifié par thegreateski, 27 avril 2010 - 09:13 .

[Addai]

phaonica wrote...

  Anora would have made a greater case if she had said "look at the mess Cailan made of things, now it's my turn, give me a chance."

So she couldnt' do anything about Cailan, but she's expected to do something about Loghain?

She couldn't do anything about either of them.  That's my point.

[Axekix]

cmessaz wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

thegreateski wrote...
Eh. She was the one ruling the country before Cailan died. The whole Civil war and Darkspawn problem is Loghain's fault.

And Loghain being in a position to do what he did is her fault.  If the buck can't stop with her, then she's an ineffectual ruler.  Either way, she's not indispensable.

What's she going to do? Kill or imprison her father who is also a national hero of Ferelden?

The point is that she was not strong enough as queen to stand up to her father and prevent him from doing the things he did as regent. She saw an opportunity when the Warden comes to speak against Loghain and uses her sneakiness to get "into bed" with the warden so he/she would support her. She is manipulative, Loghain basically tells you that she lied about the whole life endangered thing.

Well, tbh, before the Warden establishes himself she doesn't really have any option other than supporting her father.  Before the Landsmeet national support is split for and against Loghain, so imprisoning him without solid evidence would likely just splinter the Banorn... which is bad with a massive Darkspawn invasion on the horizon. 

Eamon talks about how he'd have to support Loghain for the sake of Fereldan if Alistair and the Warden didn't go with his plan.  Anora is pretty much in the same position. 

[thegreateski]

cmessaz wrote...

Wow. Are we getting into another Loghain isn't so bad argument? Let me grab my notes....

Naw. Loghain is a dick.

It's just that Anora's ruling skills couldn't possibly prevent him from being that way

[phaonica]

cmessaz wrote...

Wow. Are we getting into another Loghain isn't so bad argument? Let me grab my notes....

No, no, I shall not derail. I'll back off. Please forgive my lurkiness.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Hmmm, the thread derailed into politics and it wasn't my fault?....Curious.

[cmessaz]

Again, I just hate Anora for the reasons listen in my previous posts. Just my opinion, everyone is free to play as they will.

And for the record, I do actually like Loghain better than his evil daughter.

Modifié par cmessaz, 27 avril 2010 - 09:18 .

[Serissia]

The fact of the matter is as Queen and solo ruler after Cailan's death she could of said "no" to Loghain being her regent. She could of sent Loghain back to Gwaren and effectively swept up the mishap at Ostagar until after the war. Effectively stepping out of Cailan's shadow and showing her people that she is a competent monarch. The Bannorn was never opposed to Anora's rule they were opposed to Loghain returning from Ostagar and naming himself regent in a play for the throne.



Yes, I'm well aware that all would go against game mechanics but I'm talking theoretically.

[thegreateski]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Hmmm, the thread derailed into politics and it wasn't my fault?....Curious.

*Hand wave*

Though . . . actually I think we're back ON topic now.

[Addai]

Axekix wrote...
Eamon talks about how he'd have to support Loghain for the sake of Fereldan if Alistair and the Warden didn't go with his plan.  Anora is pretty much in the same position. 

Eamon says this because he thinks Anora is... er, I was going to say "in bed", but no ANORA'S SECRET references please!  ...  Anora is in cahoots with Loghain, and you'd never be able to oppose both.  He is talking about building a claim for the throne that is stronger than Anora's.

There are good reasons to set up the marriage with Anora if you plan to put Alistair on the throne, even when he's hardened, and there are good reasons not to.  Anora is popular and it will help end the civil war and bring people together.  The fact that there will be a "golden age" obviously can't figure in, and given the country's instability and the fact that the two of them despise each other, it's quite a stretch for a PC to foresee such an outcome.

[Axekix]

Serissia wrote...

The fact of the matter is as Queen and solo ruler after Cailan's death she could of said "no" to Loghain being her regent. She could of sent Loghain back to Gwaren and effectively swept up the mishap at Ostagar until after the war. 

Well she didn't know what Loghain had really done at the time did she?  Why would she say "no" when she still looked up to him and he's considered the greatest military mind in Fereldan.

[Serissia]

Addai67 wrote...
Eamon says this because he thinks Anora is... er, I was going to say "in bed", but no ANORA'S SECRET references please!  ...  Anora is in cahoots with Loghain, and you'd never be able to oppose both.  He is talking about building a claim for the throne that is stronger than Anora's.

There are good reasons to set up the marriage with Anora if you plan to put Alistair on the throne, even when he's hardened, and there are good reasons not to.  Anora is popular and it will help end the civil war and bring people together.  The fact that there will be a "golden age" obviously can't figure in, and given the country's instability and the fact that the two of them despise each other, it's quite a stretch for a PC to foresee such an outcome.

Is there no Golden Age if it's hardened Alistair solo or  hardened Alistair/HNF?  I honestly can't remember off hand.  Alistair solo or Alistair/HNF seem to get good epilogue cards if I recall.  Alistair works hard to become a good King and the people see how much he adores his new wife. 

[Axekix]

Addai67 wrote...

Axekix wrote...
Eamon talks about how he'd have to support Loghain for the sake of Fereldan if Alistair and the Warden didn't go with his plan.  Anora is pretty much in the same position. 

Eamon says this because he thinks Anora is... er, I was going to say "in bed", but no ANORA'S SECRET references please!  ...  Anora is in cahoots with Loghain, and you'd never be able to oppose both.  He is talking about building a claim for the throne that is stronger than Anora's.

Oh I know.  I'm saying from Anora's PoV, she can't really oppose Loghain without the Warden's support either.

Modifié par Axekix, 27 avril 2010 - 09:24 .

[cmessaz]

She said that she didn't like being in the shadow with Cailen, and she uses the warden to get out of her fathers. I say screw em all an put BANNHAMMER on the throne.

Modifié par cmessaz, 27 avril 2010 - 09:25 .

[Aisynia]

Hey, I love Teagan

[Herr Uhl]

cmessaz wrote...

She said that she didn't like being in the shadow with Cailen, and she uses the warden to get out of her fathers. I say screw em all an put BANNHAMMER on the throne.

...douche.

I won't get into why I think that, since it's irrational and I should get to be that every now and then.