60083 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Gilsa wrote...

PC: Oh, never mind then.
A: I feel very manly. Yup. I'm pretty sure that's what it is. And I'll go do it... over there. Excuse me. (laughing but also blushing and awkward)

OMG Ali.  LOL 

[SurelyForth]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

I've always been leary about choosing the "why must it be a bluff" line for fear of getting a negative response back lol. Here he is trying to be all sweet n romantic and I accidently say something that negates the scene lol

Take him out on the road alone when you trigger that conversation. The "why must it be a bluff?" eventually leads to one of my favorite Alistair lines in the game.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 29 avril 2010 - 03:04 .

[LadyDamodred]

Thor Rand Al wrote...
I'll have to try that "why must it be a bluff" next time, it sounds so cute lol.  I always do the "your so cute when your bashful" line

I always do that.  For my HNF, it's one of the few times she feels she actually has an upperhand on the teasing banter with Alistair.

[mellifera]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I think he says it because his experiences with humans have been less than stellar, and he's getting more aggro from humans than non-humans. I don't think it's a particular elf/dwarf fetish.

Yeah, I don't think he meant it in that way now that you guys have pointed this out. It was just my kneejerk reaction to be all "Wait.... what?" I think it may be a remnant of my anthropology studies, since a frequent topic of debate is the fetishization of people we consider exotic and different. Even more so when it involves the oppressors (humans, in this case) and the oppressed (elves), it can be seen as a power thing as well. Of course, this is all dependant on one's interpretation of such situations...

Not that I am saying this is the case at all here, it was just my first thought when I heard that line.

Modifié par yukidama, 29 avril 2010 - 03:06 .

[Aisynia]

SurelyForth wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Hmm, never heard that.  Out of curiosity, what's the issue with it exactly?

Well, my issue with it is this: I heard it first as a CEF, an origin where it is made abundantly clear that elven women are allowed to be raped with no implied repercussions (outside of "Oh sh!t, that man elf brought a sword!"). It is also pointed out in several other places that elven women (and men) are viewed as sex objects; exotic others who can be used for pleasure but who have no place in proper society, or who have few rights or avenues to deal with such actions against them.

So, as a CEF, when Alistair propositioned her and she asked if he wanted to be with her even though she wasn't human, and he says "especially because of that" it sent up huge red flags. The last thing she needed was him to indicate that he wanted her because she was an elf, because that was why men like Vaughan wanted her.

For a dwarf, it doesn't bother me nearly as much because there's not the underlying issue of subjugation between dwarves and humans. For a human male to say that to an elf, especially a city elf, is utterly tone deaf and a bit creepy.

That's my take. It's been pointed out that the PC should know by then that Alistair cares about her in a genuine way, and I know he says it to hand wave any concerns that the PC has about their coupling, but it still makes me quite irrationally angry.   

Forced to agree.

My elves actually deal with Leliana's "elf talk" a lot easier.. generally patient and just set her straight because she's ignorant and doesn't know any better.. taking the "You're not cruel, but you still see us differently" dialogue. I like how gracious Leli is about that..

But when it comes to the few, few elf-specific lines with Alistair, about half of them either ****** me off or creep me out.. which is why primarily my humans and dwarf nobles end up with him

[Jean]

SurelyForth wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...

I've always been leary about choosing the "why must it be a bluff" line for fear of getting a negative response back lol. Here he is trying to be all sweet n romantic and I accidently say something that negates the scene lol

Take him out on the road alone when you trigger that conversation. The "why must it be a bluff?" eventually leads to one of my favorite Alistair lines in the game.

I just did that right now... It's hilarious when you say "Who needs a tent?" :lol:

[Axekix]

SurelyForth wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Hmm, never heard that.  Out of curiosity, what's the issue with it exactly?

Well, my issue with it is this: I heard it first as a CEF, an origin where it is made abundantly clear that elven women are allowed to be raped with no implied repercussions (outside of "Oh sh!t, that man elf brought a sword!"). It is also pointed out in several other places that elven women (and men) are viewed as sex objects; exotic others who can be used for pleasure but who have no place in proper society, or who have few rights or avenues to deal with such actions against them.

So, as a CEF, when Alistair propositioned her and she asked if he wanted to be with her even though she wasn't human, and he says "especially because of that" it sent up huge red flags. The last thing she needed was him to indicate that he wanted her because she was an elf, because that was why men like Vaughan wanted her.

For a dwarf, it doesn't bother me nearly as much because there's not the underlying issue of subjugation between dwarves and humans. For a human male to say that to an elf, especially a city elf, is utterly tone deaf and a bit creepy.

That's my take. It's been pointed out that the PC should know by then that Alistair cares about her in a genuine way, and I know he says it to hand wave any concerns that the PC has about their coupling, but it still makes me quite irrationally angry.   

Yeah that makes sense.  Do you have the VO direction for it?  Is there an option to tell him off afterwards?  I suspect it wasn't meant that way but I can definitely see how it would be taken that way.

Actually playing a CEF (I've never played one past Lothering till now) I'm kind of surprised at how many racist remarks you get.  The ferryman at the Calenhad docks was a complete dick to my PC!  He didn't say anything to my elf mage though, haha.

[Aisynia]

Axekix wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Hmm, never heard that.  Out of curiosity, what's the issue with it exactly?

Well, my issue with it is this: I heard it first as a CEF, an origin where it is made abundantly clear that elven women are allowed to be raped with no implied repercussions (outside of "Oh sh!t, that man elf brought a sword!"). It is also pointed out in several other places that elven women (and men) are viewed as sex objects; exotic others who can be used for pleasure but who have no place in proper society, or who have few rights or avenues to deal with such actions against them.

So, as a CEF, when Alistair propositioned her and she asked if he wanted to be with her even though she wasn't human, and he says "especially because of that" it sent up huge red flags. The last thing she needed was him to indicate that he wanted her because she was an elf, because that was why men like Vaughan wanted her.

For a dwarf, it doesn't bother me nearly as much because there's not the underlying issue of subjugation between dwarves and humans. For a human male to say that to an elf, especially a city elf, is utterly tone deaf and a bit creepy.

That's my take. It's been pointed out that the PC should know by then that Alistair cares about her in a genuine way, and I know he says it to hand wave any concerns that the PC has about their coupling, but it still makes me quite irrationally angry.   

Yeah that makes sense.  Do you have the VO direction for it?  Is there an option to tell him off afterwards?  I suspect it wasn't meant that way but I can definitely see how it would be taken that way.

Actually playing a CEF (I've never played one past Lothering till now) I'm kind of surprised at how many racist remarks you get.  The ferryman at the Calenhad docks was a complete dick to my PC!  He didn't say anything to my elf mage though, haha.

The dalish are just as bad to you as the humans lol. My city elf was like "cool, I get meet the Dalish!"

*five minutes later*

Mithra: You flat-ears-
Kaylee (see avatar to left): Andraste's ass, shut your stupid mouth your horrible ****! *whap*

Modifié par Aisynia, 29 avril 2010 - 03:11 .

[mellifera]

SurelyForth wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Hmm, never heard that.  Out of curiosity, what's the issue with it exactly?

Well, my issue with it is this: I heard it first as a CEF, an origin where it is made abundantly clear that elven women are allowed to be raped with no implied repercussions (outside of "Oh sh!t, that man elf brought a sword!"). It is also pointed out in several other places that elven women (and men) are viewed as sex objects; exotic others who can be used for pleasure but who have no place in proper society, or who have few rights or avenues to deal with such actions against them.

So, as a CEF, when Alistair propositioned her and she asked if he wanted to be with her even though she wasn't human, and he says "especially because of that" it sent up huge red flags. The last thing she needed was him to indicate that he wanted her because she was an elf, because that was why men like Vaughan wanted her.

For a dwarf, it doesn't bother me nearly as much because there's not the underlying issue of subjugation between dwarves and humans. For a human male to say that to an elf, especially a city elf, is utterly tone deaf and a bit creepy.

That's my take. It's been pointed out that the PC should know by then that Alistair cares about her in a genuine way, and I know he says it to hand wave any concerns that the PC has about their coupling, but it still makes me quite irrationally angry.   

Yeah, really. If I had the option that would have made my elf stop making googly eyes and ask him just what the heck he meant by that. Especially since she had just spoken to Leliana and had their elf conversation. I'll just avoid asking that question next time under the assumption that she already gets that he likes her even though she's an elf. I think hearing that would make her more insecure about the whole thing, rather than reassured.

Modifié par yukidama, 29 avril 2010 - 03:13 .

[UrsulaCousland]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Oooh raised eyebrow contribution here lol

I'm late, but where's this? I don't think I've ever seen it.

[SurelyForth]

UrsulaCousland wrote...


I'm late, but where's this? I don't think I've ever seen it.

It's when you give him his mother's amulet and tell him that he means a great deal to you. 'Tis cute.

For some reason, half the time I tried to post tonight, the text box is black and completely worthless. I think the Message Board gods are trying to tell me something. At this hour it's probably "Go to bed, or you'll be a worthless crank all day tomorrow."

Modifié par SurelyForth, 29 avril 2010 - 03:26 .

[mellifera]

Dammit, now I want my elf to tell Alistair to f**k off.

You should really be allowed to confront him about that, any way I try to RP it unless he explains himself my character would be upset and filled with doubt over it. It's just too loaded a line to be a throwaway

Modifié par yukidama, 29 avril 2010 - 03:25 .

[SurelyForth]

yukidama wrote...

Dammit, now I want my elf to tell Alistair to f**k off.

You should really be allowed to confront him about that, any way I try to RP it unless he explains himself my character would be upset and filled with doubt over it. It's just too loaded a line to be a throwaway

This is why I can't romance him as a CE and I probably won't be able to do so as a DE if I do play one. I feel like David Gaider wrote it to be a sort of nod to Maric, but it's really hard for me to reconcile the extremely serious things that we see going on (as players) with it just being a sort of *shrug* type thing.

That may have made no sense, but I am sleepy.  

[thegreateski]

Why is everyone getting bent out of shape about Alistair's sexual fetish?



Every man has one. Dwarfs and Elves just happen to be his.

[UrsulaCousland]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

I've always been leary about choosing the "why must it be a bluff" line for fear of getting a negative response back lol. Here he is trying to be all sweet n romantic and I accidently say something that negates the scene lol

I was too, but I very much enjoyed the reaction to that statement. I've somewhat defaulted to at least starting down the bluff path. <3

[Axekix]

yukidama wrote...

Dammit, now I want my elf to tell Alistair to f**k off.

You should really be allowed to confront him about that, any way I try to RP it unless he explains himself my character would be upset and filled with doubt over it. It's just too loaded a line to be a throwaway

Well, (disclaimer: this is from a male PoV), the way I initially took that line, aside from the fact that he's had "bad experiences" with humans, was that he liked her for being who she was, exactly as she was. 

The PC is expressing insecurity over the racial difference, and he's trying to reassure her that he thinks she's perfect the way she is, and wouldn't want her to be anything else.  At least that's what I got from it on the surface.

[Aisynia]

Axekix wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Dammit, now I want my elf to tell Alistair to f**k off.

You should really be allowed to confront him about that, any way I try to RP it unless he explains himself my character would be upset and filled with doubt over it. It's just too loaded a line to be a throwaway

Well, (disclaimer: this is from a male PoV), the way I initially took that line, aside from the fact that he's had "bad experiences" with humans, was that he liked her for being who she was, exactly as she was. 

The PC is expressing insecurity over the racial difference, and he's trying to reassure her that he thinks she's perfect the way she is, and wouldn't want her to be anything else.  At least that's what I got from it on the surface.

Sure didn't come out right o.o

[UrsulaCousland]

SurelyForth wrote...

UrsulaCousland wrote...


I'm late, but where's this? I don't think I've ever seen it.

It's when you give him his mother's amulet and tell him that he means a great deal to you. 'Tis cute.

For some reason, half the time I tried to post tonight, the text box is black and completely worthless. I think the Message Board gods are trying to tell me something. At this hour it's probably "Go to bed, or you'll be a worthless crank all day tomorrow."

Ah, cool, thanks. I haven't triggered that yet in this playthrough - been avoiding Redcliffe and taking my time triggering the romance. I will definitely have to mix up some of my lines/responses this time!

Edit: To go bed! This thread will still be here tomorrow, or it'd better anyway!

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 29 avril 2010 - 03:37 .

[mellifera]

Axekix wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Dammit, now I want my elf to tell Alistair to f**k off.

You should really be allowed to confront him about that, any way I try to RP it unless he explains himself my character would be upset and filled with doubt over it. It's just too loaded a line to be a throwaway

Well, (disclaimer: this is from a male PoV), the way I initially took that line, aside from the fact that he's had "bad experiences" with humans, was that he liked her for being who she was, exactly as she was. 

The PC is expressing insecurity over the racial difference, and he's trying to reassure her that he thinks she's perfect the way she is, and wouldn't want her to be anything else.  At least that's what I got from it on the surface.

Hm, you may have a point there. He reaaaaally put his foot in his mouth there though, and I am surprised that the comment is allowed to pass without any sort of confrontation or questioning.

[Sarah1281]

Aisynia wrote...

Axekix wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Dammit, now I want my elf to tell Alistair to f**k off.

You should really be allowed to confront him about that, any way I try to RP it unless he explains himself my character would be upset and filled with doubt over it. It's just too loaded a line to be a throwaway

Well, (disclaimer: this is from a male PoV), the way I initially took that line, aside from the fact that he's had "bad experiences" with humans, was that he liked her for being who she was, exactly as she was. 

The PC is expressing insecurity over the racial difference, and he's trying to reassure her that he thinks she's perfect the way she is, and wouldn't want her to be anything else.  At least that's what I got from it on the surface.

Sure didn't come out right o.o

What Alistair lacks in eloquence he makes up for in sincerity.

[SurelyForth]

thegreateski wrote...

Why is everyone getting bent out of shape about Alistair's sexual fetish?

Every man has one. Dwarfs and Elves just happen to be his.

Because fetishization of elves has led to horrible, horrible things being done to them (as is demonstrated in the game itself) and, thus, it might make some players uncomfortable to have their love express a sentiment that indicates he likes her less for who she is than what she is?

I think the other response you get, where he can say "of course" when you ask about the whole racial difference thing is way more in line with his character and what he is actually trying to convey with "especially because of that." 

[Axekix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

Axekix wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Dammit, now I want my elf to tell Alistair to f**k off.

You should really be allowed to confront him about that, any way I try to RP it unless he explains himself my character would be upset and filled with doubt over it. It's just too loaded a line to be a throwaway

Well, (disclaimer: this is from a male PoV), the way I initially took that line, aside from the fact that he's had "bad experiences" with humans, was that he liked her for being who she was, exactly as she was. 

The PC is expressing insecurity over the racial difference, and he's trying to reassure her that he thinks she's perfect the way she is, and wouldn't want her to be anything else.  At least that's what I got from it on the surface.

Sure didn't come out right o.o

What Alistair lacks in eloquence he makes up for in sincerity.

Hahaha, he's never really been good with words.

[Gilsa]

Axekix wrote...

Well, (disclaimer: this is from a male PoV), the way I initially took that line, aside from the fact that he's had "bad experiences" with humans, was that he liked her for being who she was, exactly as she was. 

The PC is expressing insecurity over the racial difference, and he's trying to reassure her that he thinks she's perfect the way she is, and wouldn't want her to be anything else.  At least that's what I got from it on the surface.

That's a fantastic way of saying that. Thanks for that PoV. That is completely believable because my husband would give me the same explanation as well if I bounced it off of him.

[AnniLau]

Alistair has a cranky...



(More amusing was right-clicking him and getting the "Your desire is my command" line while his face was stuck like that. )

Modifié par AnniLau, 29 avril 2010 - 03:51 .

[Aisynia]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

Axekix wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Dammit, now I want my elf to tell Alistair to f**k off.

You should really be allowed to confront him about that, any way I try to RP it unless he explains himself my character would be upset and filled with doubt over it. It's just too loaded a line to be a throwaway

Well, (disclaimer: this is from a male PoV), the way I initially took that line, aside from the fact that he's had "bad experiences" with humans, was that he liked her for being who she was, exactly as she was. 

The PC is expressing insecurity over the racial difference, and he's trying to reassure her that he thinks she's perfect the way she is, and wouldn't want her to be anything else.  At least that's what I got from it on the surface.

Sure didn't come out right o.o

What Alistair lacks in eloquence he makes up for in sincerity.

True.

What I'm confused by is people's reaction to Leliana's "elf talk", when none of my elves, even my human hating CE took offense. I was thinking about this long and hard a few mins ago while busy with something IRL, and I think I figured it out.

People have the knee-jerk reaction "racist!" because of what she ultimately ends up saying. But really, it's just a sign of her ignorance and upbringing, not a sign of any cruelty or prejudice inside her heart. If you correct her on it, she immediately changes her stance, and is visibly upset in her realization of what she said and how she thinks.

I mean, she doesn't look down at the warden, she admires her greatly, even has a deep affection for her.

What my elves focus on isn't what she ultimately ends up saying, but why she starts the conversation. When in camp, 99% of conversations I have with any random sampling of companions will reveal that I am talking to them about their problems, and no one ever really brings up mine. Even Alistair drops the ball here, as the very few times he brings it up, it's either terribly awkward, or cringe-worthy (being so hung up on Duncan that he forgot your family was slaughtered like genlocks -- ouch).

Leliana starts this conversation with you, asking about your life, and showing concern for the life you led. She has never been in an alienage, but she knows there is deep poverty and squalor there. She has never had to live a life like that, but she is showing concern, and sympathy, and a willingness to get to know you and to understand. To help herself understand, in making conversation, she brings up how elves live in Orlais. Now I don't think she's necessarily trying to say "Oh hey, our way is better". I think it's simply the only thing she knows, the only thing she can compare it to. She knows elves in Orlais aren't often as pverty stricken as they are in Ferelden, she doesn't fully understand that the social boundaries are still there.

I myself have lived in deep poverty, I was homeless for five and a half years after my house burned down. Maybe I have a unique perspective here as a result. I would rather have lived like I did than live like those elves do in Orlais, but I wouldn't be offended that it was brought up.

So my elves just explain that, hey, I had family, and so I had love there too (a mirror of my life when I was homeless), and that, even though you don't mean to, and you aren't a cruel person, you are still seeing us differently. She reacts by being visibly upset, very unhappy with the realization that she has been thinking in an unfair way. If nothing else, Leliana tries to be a fair and kind-hearted person, overall.

On the other hand, when Alistair brings up race, as mentioned above, he says one of the worst possible things in one of the worst possible ways at one of the worst possible times. Now, that awkwardness can be endearing ( <3 ), but the way he comes off just makes my elves go.. and walk away

They usually make up though

Oddly enough, my one elf to stick with him all the way through was a dalish.. who left him unhardened, and kept him off the throne. She returned to her clan, and dragged him along with her. I'm sure that went over REAL well with the other dalish LOL.

Modifié par Aisynia, 29 avril 2010 - 03:55 .