60083 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

SurelyForth wrote...

I think there's a difference between being raised in the Chantry as an initiate because you're being molded to do the work of the Maker, and being raised in the Chantry because you're a foul thing that needs to be leashed or imprisoned by religion. I've never played an Andrastian mage as I imagine that they figure out the score pretty early on.

I have been playing my current Surana as somewhat of an Andrastian.  I need to think more about why.  She could have a bit of a Keili thing going, but I also imagine it is something similar to how Zevran approaches the Chantry.  Zevran says he often went to the Chantry as a child, and he seems to have an awe and fondness for Andraste.  I picture her being raised in the Denerim alienage, packed into a tenement apartment with parents who scarcely remembered her name and were chiefly interested in how much she could beg.  (I've got images of street children I saw while living overseas... their eyes haunt me... I remember trying to give one child the equivalent of a laborer's day's wage and saying "this is so you don't have to sell any more today, this is so you can go play today, you can play today and give this to your parents later" and the child just gave me this vacant look like she didn't know what I was talking about and it didn't matter anyway.)  So, the story of Andraste means something to her, and even if the Chantry's history against elves and mages is brutal, there is something about the ritual and the Chant that is comforting.

And your second point is one of the reasons why situations like Cullen/FM exist and could potentially be very, very bad. He has the Chantry Guilt Complex, and his vows to worry about, and she doesn't.

In The Calling, Fiona's flashback of her life as a sex slave to an Orlesian nobleman is followed up by the sentence "The Circle, sadly, had been little better."  And frustratingly, no detail at all is given.  I am guessing there was sexual exploitation by the templars, but we don't see that in-game so it's hard to say.

I'm not saying that mages are always going at it, but I think it does happen and, because mages aren't allowed to marry, it happens on a much more casual basis than it would outside of the Circle.

Ferelden seems fairly sexually liberated on the whole.  Certainly the Couslands don't seem particularly incensed if you're dallying here and there.

[Raiil]

I imagine that there are templars who are abusive, but I'd stop at thinking that they all were. From the few you can speak with or learn about, Alistair isn't the most fervent of Andrastians, Ser Bran seems to be rather dry and amusing... I'm sure there are some lechers, but that's true of any society. And I suspect that Ferelden templars are different from Orlesian templars, as well. Not that the Fereldens are shining paragons of humanity when it comes to the treatment of elves, but it seems like the average Ferelden wouldn't stand on slavery.

[Addai]

On an entirely different note (and still o/t from Alistair... I'm scared to post screen shots now after the Maricstair controversy LOL), thanks to Serissia for posting about the Forgotten Armor.  My husband threw it on his HNM rogue character and it looks really good on him.  I tried it on Ali but it didn't work.  I will probably keep my PC in mage robes for now.  She attracted a sudden spate of archer attention the minute I put her in medium armor last night.

The really great thing is that she, as an arcane warrior, can dual-wield the Forgotten daggers.  She wasn't able to wield vanilla daggers because of the dex requirement (since Combat Magic only gives you strength equivalent, not dex).  Those of you who like the Mord Sith mage robe and are playing an arcane warrior might think about using those, especially since it's very much a "Kahlan" thing to do.  The mord sith look is not my thing, but I could see a very interesting mage build using those robes, wielding DW Forgotten daggers, and casting all kinds of Entropy nasties.

Modifié par Addai67, 30 avril 2010 - 08:07 .

[SurelyForth]

Addai67 wrote...
 (I've got images of street children I saw while living overseas... their eyes haunt me... I remember trying to give one child the equivalent of a laborer's day's wage and saying "this is so you don't have to sell any more today, this is so you can go play today, you can play today and give this to your parents later" and the child just gave me this vacant look like she didn't know what I was talking about and it didn't matter anyway.) 

Modifié par SurelyForth, 30 avril 2010 - 08:24 .

[LadyDamodred]

Addai67 wrote...

Serissia wrote...

Does Midwinter's Thaw end up w/ an Alistair/Anders/Cousland three way or something?  I want to know now before I sink more time into it.  I'm only on chapter 17 and so, far it seems pretty good.

I started reading some of this because I hear about it now and again, but it pretty much confirmed for me my allergy to fanfiction.

 

It doesn't all suck, but I totally see where you're coming from.

[nranola]

@Addai- If you're looking for nice daggers for your AW, you might want to look into Nightfall Bloom; the weapon set that comes with the Ivory Tower armor. It was made specifically for AWs so there's no dex requirement. I don't know if the stats are overpowered (I haven't developed an eye for that sort of thing lol), but it's worth having a look.

Have I mentioned how sexy the Ivory Tower armor is? Because it is. A knight in shining armor in its truest sense. <3

[errant_knight]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Serissia wrote...

Does Midwinter's Thaw end up w/ an Alistair/Anders/Cousland three way or something?  I want to know now before I sink more time into it.  I'm only on chapter 17 and so, far it seems pretty good.

I started reading some of this because I hear about it now and again, but it pretty much confirmed for me my allergy to fanfiction.

 

It doesn't all suck, but I totally see where you're coming from.

The problem with most of it is that people don't tend to bother with real plots. They set up a loose situation and use that as a framework for chapter after chapter of character study that may or may not actually be in character. A lot of the time it's more about making the characters what they wish they were rather than what is indicated by the canon of whatever fandom they're writing in.

[LadyDamodred]

errant_knight wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Serissia wrote...

Does Midwinter's Thaw end up w/ an Alistair/Anders/Cousland three way or something?  I want to know now before I sink more time into it.  I'm only on chapter 17 and so, far it seems pretty good.

I started reading some of this because I hear about it now and again, but it pretty much confirmed for me my allergy to fanfiction.

 

It doesn't all suck, but I totally see where you're coming from.

The problem with most of it is that people don't tend to bother with real plots. They set up a loose situation and use that as a framework for chapter after chapter of character study that may or may not actually be in character. A lot of the time it's more about making the characters what they wish they were rather than what is indicated by the canon of whatever fandom they're writing in.

Oh, I agree.  The characters breaking character is what drives me insane most of the time.  I like a good plot, but it's okay for things to be frivolous, especially if it's just for sh*ts and giggles.  The character thing, though.  Eesh.  I try really hard not to break it when I write, though it may get nudged just a wee bit at times.

All the bad fanfic makes Alistair a sad panda.

[Addai]

SurelyForth wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
 (I've got images of street children I saw while living overseas... their eyes haunt me... I remember trying to give one child the equivalent of a laborer's day's wage and saying "this is so you don't have to sell any more today, this is so you can go play today, you can play today and give this to your parents later" and the child just gave me this vacant look like she didn't know what I was talking about and it didn't matter anyway.) 

Yeah.    She might have been high, actually.  Glue sniffing, etc.  A very small child.  Anyway, that's the kind of childhood I picture my current mage having had and why the Circle in comparison didn't seem so bad.  Not that she wasn't happy for some freedom, I guess, though it must also be a little terrifying, especially to be thrown into a war.

Modifié par Addai67, 30 avril 2010 - 08:38 .

[mellifera]

Awww, poor sad Alistair ;w;



I really should not be left near my game and the toolset late at night. I just opened up my game and Alistair was Teagan, Morrigan was Alfstanna, my character was Shianni, Leliana was Mama Cousland, Zevran was Cammen... I don't even want to know.

[LadyDamodred]

yukidama wrote...

Awww, poor sad Alistair ;w;

I really should not be left near my game and the toolset late at night. I just opened up my game and Alistair was Teagan, Morrigan was Alfstanna, my character was Shianni, Leliana was Mama Cousland, Zevran was Cammen... I don't even want to know.

O.o  Was there perhaps drugs/alcohol involved as well?

And in my head, Alistair is saying 'why u do dis?'

[mellifera]

LadyDamodred wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Awww, poor sad Alistair ;w;

I really should not be left near my game and the toolset late at night. I just opened up my game and Alistair was Teagan, Morrigan was Alfstanna, my character was Shianni, Leliana was Mama Cousland, Zevran was Cammen... I don't even want to know.

O.o  Was there perhaps drugs/alcohol involved as well?

And in my head, Alistair is saying 'why u do dis?'

My head just enters a special place when it is 5AM. I was playing around with the face morph files I downloaded, Alistair was Duncan at some point too....  then I realized I could use the face morphs for good rather than switching everyone's heads around. My characters will actually resemble their family a bit more now, haha.

[tmp7704]

Addai67 wrote...

In The Calling, Fiona's flashback of her life as a sex slave to an Orlesian nobleman is followed up by the sentence "The Circle, sadly, had been little better."  And frustratingly, no detail at all is given.  I am guessing there was sexual exploitation by the templars, but we don't see that in-game so it's hard to say.

If i remember right, there's either some comments of references in the game regarding templars' typical treatment of captured apostates and whatnot. Creating impressiong this may be one (not necessarily the only, of course) "outlet" they're using. At least some of them.

Modifié par tmp7704, 30 avril 2010 - 08:46 .

[LadyDamodred]

tmp7704 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

In The Calling, Fiona's flashback of her life as a sex slave to an Orlesian nobleman is followed up by the sentence "The Circle, sadly, had been little better."  And frustratingly, no detail at all is given.  I am guessing there was sexual exploitation by the templars, but we don't see that in-game so it's hard to say.

If i remember right, there's either some comments of references in the game regarding templars' typical treatment of captured apostates and whatnot. Creating impressiong this may be one (not necessarily the only, of course) "outlet" they're using. At least some of them.

I don't recall anything like that.  Hmmm.  And, sadly, I think there is probably a lot of abuse.  Unless mages get the first shot off, they're kind of at a templar's mercy.

Edit:  Although, I think the Fereldan tower is probably not so much that way.  Irving and Greagoir seem to run a pretty tight ship, and neither would cotton to that sort of sh*t.

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 30 avril 2010 - 08:55 .

[Axekix]

LadyDamodred wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

In The Calling, Fiona's flashback of her life as a sex slave to an Orlesian nobleman is followed up by the sentence "The Circle, sadly, had been little better."  And frustratingly, no detail at all is given.  I am guessing there was sexual exploitation by the templars, but we don't see that in-game so it's hard to say.

If i remember right, there's either some comments of references in the game regarding templars' typical treatment of captured apostates and whatnot. Creating impressiong this may be one (not necessarily the only, of course) "outlet" they're using. At least some of them.

I don't recall anything like that.  Hmmm.  And, sadly, I think there is probably a lot of abuse.  Unless mages get the first shot off, they're kind of at a templar's mercy.

Edit:  Although, I think the Fereldan tower is probably not so much that way.  Irving and Greagoir seem to run a pretty tight ship, and neither would cotton to that sort of sh*t.

You get that line if you're a CE discussing your origin with Wynne (telling her about what Vaughan).  I actually just had that convo last night.  She says something about the templars inflicting great "indignities" on the apostates they capture before killing them.

So... yeah.

Modifié par Axekix, 30 avril 2010 - 08:59 .

[master-fluff]

tmp7704 wrote...

If i remember right, there's either some comments of references in the game regarding templars' typical treatment of captured apostates and whatnot. Creating impressiong this may be one (not necessarily the only, of course) "outlet" they're using. At least some of them.

There's definitely a Wynne/City Elf conversation on this.  CE hints at the circumstances behind how she became a warden and Wynne 'understands' and talks about the abuse of power and how templars were sometimes guilty of taking advantage of apostates.  Or words to that effect.

[Aisynia]

LadyDamodred wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

In The Calling, Fiona's flashback of her life as a sex slave to an Orlesian nobleman is followed up by the sentence "The Circle, sadly, had been little better."  And frustratingly, no detail at all is given.  I am guessing there was sexual exploitation by the templars, but we don't see that in-game so it's hard to say.

If i remember right, there's either some comments of references in the game regarding templars' typical treatment of captured apostates and whatnot. Creating impressiong this may be one (not necessarily the only, of course) "outlet" they're using. At least some of them.

I don't recall anything like that.  Hmmm.  And, sadly, I think there is probably a lot of abuse.  Unless mages get the first shot off, they're kind of at a templar's mercy.

Edit:  Although, I think the Fereldan tower is probably not so much that way.  Irving and Greagoir seem to run a pretty tight ship, and neither would cotton to that sort of sh*t.

Not if they knew about it, no.

[Axekix]

master-fluff wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

If i remember right, there's either some comments of references in the game regarding templars' typical treatment of captured apostates and whatnot. Creating impressiong this may be one (not necessarily the only, of course) "outlet" they're using. At least some of them.

There's definitely a Wynne/City Elf conversation on this.  CE hints at the circumstances behind how she became a warden and Wynne 'understands' and talks about the abuse of power and how templars were sometimes guilty of taking advantage of apostates.  Or words to that effect.

I do wonder if Cullen knows about this?  I don't get why he has such a hard time coming to terms with his feelings, if templars are known to take certain liberties with apostates.  Also that doesn't seem very Andrastian. :innocent:

Modifié par Axekix, 30 avril 2010 - 09:05 .

[Raiil]

I would hazard a guess that some templars take certain liberties. Wynne doesn't know any more than the others, since what she's going to know is hearsay. On the other hand, you have templars like Alistair, who takes relationships seriously but is cool with joking about sex, or Cullen, who is shy and bashful. Templars are like any other group of people- there are bound to be some bad apples, but there are good ones as well.

[Axekix]

Certainly, but he acts as if crushing on a mage is the worst thing he could ever do. It just seems odd to me considering Wynne's claim. Unless templars view apostates as sub-human or something, I dunno.

EDIT: and srsly... for a religion that is so matriarchal, templar rapists seem extremely messed up.

Modifié par Axekix, 30 avril 2010 - 09:16 .

[tmp7704]

Axekix wrote...

You get that line if you're a CE discussing your origin with Wynne (telling her about what Vaughan).  I actually just had that convo last night.  She says something about the templars inflicting great "indignities" on the apostates they capture before killing them.

So... yeah.

Ahh that explains it. I couldn't remember the source but was fairly sure it gets mentioned and my first character was CE... so that's probably where it came from.

[Addai]

Since we're talking about the Tower (again... this is like mage chick central in here LOL), I'll run by another theory I have on the environment there.  In the Fade, the Mages Asunder nightmare has that one room where the mage is saying "we can't trust anybody, not even ourselves, so the answer is just to kill- kill everybody" and they proceed to fireball each other and you.  That plus the creepy fact that Irving knows about Jowan and Lily even before you tell him and basically hints that he knows everything about everyone, and the fact that you're expected to inform on Jowan, give it all a very Stasi feel.  I would imagine that it is very hard for a mage to ever trust anyone.  I, at least, always picture my mages somewhat f'ed up in the relationship department, though all in all Anders seems pretty well-adjusted.  I think my current mage is decently well-adjusted, too, all told.

It just makes me all the happier to see her do her little finger-twiddle and know that for the first time she is with someone who is, despite being prince and all that entails, completely safe.  Even though I imagine that Alistair- a human man, former templar and a prince- is the last person she ever expected to find that with.  Hurrah for Ali. 

Modifié par Addai67, 30 avril 2010 - 09:35 .

[Raiil]

It's not until he's been tortured that it's obvious that crushing on a mage is bad. Before that, it came off (at least to me) that is was more of a 'duty' thing than a 'all mages are evol!11!' issue. Truth be told, there are very few templars in the game who exhibit strong feelings of hatred towards mages. Gregoir is knight-commander, but he doesn't seem to have anything personal against mages. He and Irving are colleagues, not gaoler and prisoner. He even assures the Warden that she is ready for the Harrowing, and does not begrudge them their abilities until the mage steps out of line, even on the command of another.





Cullen also states that he does what the Maker/Chantry wills, but with a heavy heart and more out of necessity and duty rather than any ill-will towards someone with magus abilities.

[Addai]

Valentia X wrote...

I would hazard a guess that some templars take certain liberties. Wynne doesn't know any more than the others, since what she's going to know is hearsay. On the other hand, you have templars like Alistair, who takes relationships seriously but is cool with joking about sex, or Cullen, who is shy and bashful. Templars are like any other group of people- there are bound to be some bad apples, but there are good ones as well.

If you have a culture of sexual exploitation, however, even the not-so-bad apples will permit themselves things that others wouldn't.  Social expectations enforcing a norm.  It does seem to be more of a feature of Orlesian life than Fereldan that powerful men take their liberties.  Maybe even because of the Orlesian occupation, where Fereldan women (and men, maybe) would have been the targets.  Then again there's Vaughn, and the fact that the Chantry priestess just stands by and does nothing.

[Thor Rand Al]

nranola wrote...

@Addai- If you're looking for nice daggers for your AW, you might want to look into Nightfall Bloom; the weapon set that comes with the Ivory Tower armor. It was made specifically for AWs so there's no dex requirement. I don't know if the stats are overpowered (I haven't developed an eye for that sort of thing lol), but it's worth having a look.

Have I mentioned how sexy the Ivory Tower armor is? Because it is. A knight in shining armor in its truest sense. <3

That's sweet, I love that armor



Edit:  Top of page pic
More eyebrow raising

Modifié par Thor Rand Al, 30 avril 2010 - 09:43 .