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[errant_knight]

I'll do picture duty:

tmp7704 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

The architect is a liar, liar, liar. He also says that he didn't kill the Orlesian wardens, and yet we find one in the mine, beaten to the point of death.

The notes you can find in his lab also make it pretty clear he's concerned only with is own kind and not to be trusted -- he explicitly states that he's letting Velanna's sister believe he'll free her if she cooperates, in order to ensure her cooperation. And he's not bothered in the slightest by his second-in-command running social experiments on humans/elves (the whole setup that caused Velanna's rampage in the first place)

Not to mention he only seeks alliance because alone he's too weak to defeat the Mother, and he only wants to defeat her in the first place because he believes she's out to get him specifically. Fairly sure if it wasn't for that he'd be perfectly happy to let her breed and rampage across the countryside freely.

True, and let's look at the idea of an intelligent darkspawn who wants to see what happens in that kind of experiment. Now he's not a mindless beast, he's Josef Mengele with the taint. The intelligent darkspawn are still darkspawn. They might not be in thrall to an archdemon, but that could be much worse. They might not all attack at once, but that would also mean that there would be no opportunity to reduce their numbers in large scale battles. They would be attacking randomly, intelligently, and all the time, no being driven back underground. Once enough of them have free will, the architect wouldn't be able to control them, even if he tries to keep his word, which may not last, so there's no guarantee that large scale attacks won't happen in the future, either.

Modifié par errant_knight, 06 mai 2010 - 05:57 .

[cmessaz]

About Awakening-Offer 0 story continuity, no explanation as to why GW Alistair isn't with you, no explanation of where your other companions who are supposed to be with you are, handwave the Alistair sacrifice. No Awakening is a disappointment to me. Just my opinion though.

The story itself? I don't mind. It just didn't connect with Origins enough for me.

Modifié par cmessaz, 06 mai 2010 - 05:58 .

[sylvanaerie]

Lady Jess wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Not gonna get into a discussion on the Architect. PC's job as a GW is to kill/stop the darkspawn. Architect is a darkspawn, a talking one but still a darkspawn. Kill it quick before it multiplies.

And put his robe on Anders!!!!

He drops a robe? I don't remember that...but then by that point of the game I actually couldn't wait to finish it.  That pissy look on the PC SO mirrors my feelings at that point.

Here Val was on her honeymoon ALONE. Having to deal with this idiot of a darkspawn and his enemy (another idiot) and all she got for her troubles was a lousy Tshirt.

Next time she's going to Tahiti.

[LadyDamodred]

cmessaz wrote...

LadyJess- Did you steal his shield? I think he has one for me, I'll have to actually beat the game sometime soon to find out. It's like when LadyDamodred sent me her file and Arl Eamon was using his fists to help fight the archdemon. He remembered his shield, but no sword.

Wait, wait, wait.  Eamon didn't have his sword?  When did this happen?  That's hilarious!  He never has a shield for me, he's a 2H war.

[cmessaz]

I also didn't know that if you mess with them fancy rune thingies on the floor, you get cool spells to use against the mother.

[cmessaz]

LadyDamodred wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

LadyJess- Did you steal his shield? I think he has one for me, I'll have to actually beat the game sometime soon to find out. It's like when LadyDamodred sent me her file and Arl Eamon was using his fists to help fight the archdemon. He remembered his shield, but no sword.

Wait, wait, wait.  Eamon didn't have his sword?  When did this happen?  That's hilarious!  He never has a shield for me, he's a 2H war.

The last time I used your save. He was all MikeTyson on Archi. He had a shield on his back however.

edit: if he does it this time, I will send you a screenshot.

Modifié par cmessaz, 06 mai 2010 - 06:01 .

[Lady Jess]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Not gonna get into a discussion on the Architect. PC's job as a GW is to kill/stop the darkspawn. Architect is a darkspawn, a talking one but still a darkspawn. Kill it quick before it multiplies.

And put his robe on Anders!!!!

He drops a robe? I don't remember that...but then by that point of the game I actually couldn't wait to finish it.  That pissy look on the PC SO mirrors my feelings at that point.

Here Val was on her honeymoon ALONE. Having to deal with this idiot of a darkspawn and his enemy (another idiot) and all she got for her troubles was a lousy Tshirt.

Next time she's going to Tahiti.

Yep he does. Modeled by Evielle, you'll see the tasteful clothing of the architect, accessorized by the lamppost in winter staff. The only lamppost she could lick of course because her partner GW Alistair was off building a memorial in Highever.

[Serissia]

**** TC spoiler ****



The problem is Awakening never mentions the full extent of the Architect's plans. In order for the darkspawn and humanity (generalized term here for sake of simplicity) to coexist 90% of both races must die. The darkspawn have the same chance of death as humans do when ingesting Warden blood. Basically the Architect wants to turn everyone into human/darkspawn hybrid. That way everyone that is left afterward would ideally be at peace. The plan is beyond insane.

[SurelyForth]

sylvanaerie wrote...
He drops a robe? I don't remember that...but then by that point of the game I actually couldn't wait to finish it.  That pissy look on the PC SO mirrors my feelings at that point.

Someone else posted it, but it looks better on Anders (although, I am deeply biased):



Utha also drops something that I hand off to Sigrun, but I can't remember what it is off the top of my head.

Can anyone explain to me why the Architect has you fight the dragons? Besides it being kind of cool looking?

Modifié par SurelyForth, 06 mai 2010 - 06:09 .

[cmessaz]

Serissia wrote...

**** TC spoiler ****

The problem is Awakening never mentions the full extent of the Architect's plans. In order for the darkspawn and humanity (generalized term here for sake of simplicity) to coexist 90% of both races must die. The darkspawn have the same chance of death as humans do when ingesting Warden blood. Basically the Architect wants to turn everyone into human/darkspawn hybrid. That way everyone that is left afterward would ideally be at peace. The plan is beyond insane.

That explains a lot. Thanks! Wow.

[Serissia]

SurelyForth wrote...
Utha also drops something that I hand off to Sigrun, but I can't remember what it is off the top of my head.

Can anyone explain to me why the Architect has you fight the dragons? Besides it being kind of cool looking?

He's testing you.  If you can't defeat two adolescent drakes than you're useless to him.  He needs someone he knows is physically powerful as well as politically.  Unlike in TC he doesn't want to simply use the Commander of the Grey as a means to the end, he needs you to defeat the Mother.

[cmessaz]

Serissia wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...
Utha also drops something that I hand off to Sigrun, but I can't remember what it is off the top of my head.

Can anyone explain to me why the Architect has you fight the dragons? Besides it being kind of cool looking?

He's testing you.  If you can't defeat two adolescent drakes than you're useless to him.  He needs someone he knows is physically powerful as well as politically.  Unlike in TC he doesn't want to simply use the Commander of the Grey as a means to the end, he needs you to defeat the Mother.

What a bastard. Now I need to run through Awakening just to kill him again.

[SurelyForth]

Serissia wrote...


He's testing you.  If you can't defeat two adolescent drakes than you're useless to him.  He needs someone he knows is physically powerful as well as politically.  Unlike in TC he doesn't want to simply use the Commander of the Grey as a means to the end, he needs you to defeat the Mother.

Got it. I'm always a little "WTF?" at that point, so I missed that completely.

[Addai]

Serissia wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...
Utha also drops something that I hand off to Sigrun, but I can't remember what it is off the top of my head.

Can anyone explain to me why the Architect has you fight the dragons? Besides it being kind of cool looking?

He's testing you.  If you can't defeat two adolescent drakes than you're useless to him.  He needs someone he knows is physically powerful as well as politically.  Unlike in TC he doesn't want to simply use the Commander of the Grey as a means to the end, he needs you to defeat the Mother.

Ah, well that just warms the ****les of me heart and makes me want to ally with him.

Or not.

SurelyForth, did you keep the little dialogue you wrote up about "what Alistair would do" with the Architect?  It was awesome.  All I remember is Alistair saying "just go kill that talking darkspawn... thing."

Edit:  Oh for Andraste's sake, the forum edits out c*ckles because obviously I'm talking about a penis when I'm speaking fake Irish!

Modifié par Addai67, 06 mai 2010 - 06:18 .

[Serissia]

It's only possible to really understand his motives if you've read TC. If you haven't you have hardly any background on him at that point.

[errant_knight]

TheGrumpyOne wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Seriously, did they fire their team or something? It's like different people are in charge now. Maybe the original ones are working on DA2 while lesser beings are working on this DLC? One can only hope.

LadyJess- Did you steal his shield? I think he has one for me, I'll have to actually beat the game sometime soon to find out. It's like when LadyDamodred sent me her file and Arl Eamon was using his fists to help fight the archdemon. He remembered his shield, but no sword.

Nope, I've never seen him with a shield in that scene.

The DLC totally undermines the importance of the Warden, which adds insult to injury for some fans. If the new content is to be believed, your Warden is only needed for the Final Battle and to destroy the Archdemon.

Actually, I'd disagree with that. I think it places too much credit with the warden. It says that without the warden the troops collected would be ineffectual, that the companions may have sided with Branka (which I personally think is bad), that even though they managed to get to the final battle, it was a wasted effort, all useless, because it ends in abject failure. All the companion's skills mean nothing without you. I'd rather play a human being surrounded by effective friends than a lone god leading the peons, thanks.

[cmessaz]

LadyDamodred, I got the right slide. Hmm, so which version do you have? Because if you have ejoslin's ZDF that wasn't packaged with mine, you have to delete her epilogue file.

[errant_knight]

Addai67 wrote...

Serissia wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...
Utha also drops something that I hand off to Sigrun, but I can't remember what it is off the top of my head.

Can anyone explain to me why the Architect has you fight the dragons? Besides it being kind of cool looking?

He's testing you.  If you can't defeat two adolescent drakes than you're useless to him.  He needs someone he knows is physically powerful as well as politically.  Unlike in TC he doesn't want to simply use the Commander of the Grey as a means to the end, he needs you to defeat the Mother.

Ah, well that just warms the ****les of me heart and makes me want to ally with him.

Or not.

SurelyForth, did you keep the little dialogue you wrote up about "what Alistair would do" with the Architect?  It was awesome.  All I remember is Alistair saying "just go kill that talking darkspawn... thing."

Edit:  Oh for Andraste's sake, the forum edits out c*ckles because obviously I'm talking about a penis when I'm speaking fake Irish!

It did the same when I was talking about a mythical monster whose name begins the same. Heh.

[Addai]

errant_knight wrote...

Actually, I'd disagree with that. I think it places too much credit with the warden. It says that without the warden the troops collected would be ineffectual, that the companions may have sided with Branka (which I personally think is bad), that even though they managed to get to the final battle, it was a wasted effort, all useless, because it ends in abject failure. All the companion's skills mean nothing without you. I'd rather play a human being surrounded by effective friends than a lone god leading the peons, thanks.

This is my view, absolutely.

Man, what a field day for the Alistair haters.  We should already be looking forward with fond anticipation to the stories/screenshots of how freaking awesome it was to kill Alistair. 

Whatevs.  Talking about the haters only encourages them.   And I'm determined to be measured in my complaining about the DLC, because I don't want to give them any extra publicity for it.  I bet they're counting on a little fanboy/fangirl outrage for buzz.

Modifié par Addai67, 06 mai 2010 - 06:28 .

[Lady Jess]

Addai67 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Actually, I'd disagree with that. I think it places too much credit with the warden. It says that without the warden the troops collected would be ineffectual, that the companions may have sided with Branka (which I personally think is bad), that even though they managed to get to the final battle, it was a wasted effort, all useless, because it ends in abject failure. All the companion's skills mean nothing without you. I'd rather play a human being surrounded by effective friends than a lone god leading the peons, thanks.

This is my view, absolutely.

Man, what a field day for the Alistair haters.  We should already be looking forward with fond anticipation to the stories/screenshots of how freaking awesome it was to kill Alistair. 

Whatevs.  Talking about the haters only encourages them.   And I'm determined to be measured in my complaining about the DLC, because I don't want to give them any extra publicity for it.  I bet they're counting on a little fanboy/fangirl outrage for buzz.

Yep. And they're counting on even those vehemently objecting to buy it for curiosity alone. The only thing that's going to show who likes what is who buys what.

[Serissia]

Addai67 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Actually, I'd disagree with that. I think it places too much credit with the warden. It says that without the warden the troops collected would be ineffectual, that the companions may have sided with Branka (which I personally think is bad), that even though they managed to get to the final battle, it was a wasted effort, all useless, because it ends in abject failure. All the companion's skills mean nothing without you. I'd rather play a human being surrounded by effective friends than a lone god leading the peons, thanks.

This is my view, absolutely.

Man, what a field day for the Alistair haters.  We should already be looking forward with fond anticipation to the stories/screenshots of how freaking awesome it was to kill Alistair. 

Whatevs.  Talking about the haters only encourages them.   And I'm determined to be measured in my complaining about the DLC, because I don't want to give them any extra publicity for it.  I bet they're counting on a little fanboy/fangirl outrage for buzz.

Heh, maybe the people that came up w/ the idea were all playing AWs.  AWs can really solo the whole game on Nightmare w/o tactics or coherent thought process.

[LadyDamodred]

cmessaz wrote...

LadyDamodred, I got the right slide. Hmm, so which version do you have? Because if you have ejoslin's ZDF that wasn't packaged with mine, you have to delete her epilogue file.

I pulled the file off the prject page for good measure, so not sure what's up.  I thought I deleted the ZDF one, unless I did it wrong?  O.o

[Serissia]

I finished the Cammen headmorph. I think he still looks like a young elf w/o looking like a sack of beaten cottage cheese and paste.

[SurelyForth]

Addai67 wrote...

SurelyForth, did you keep the little dialogue you wrote up about "what Alistair would do" with the Architect?  It was awesome.  All I remember is Alistair saying "just go kill that talking darkspawn... thing."

This?

PC: This is a whole lot of business you're throwing at me, Mr. Architect. My gut tells me to kill you, because you are a darkspawn and I am a Grey Warden. But you could possibly end the Blights? Hmm, if only Alistair were here...

Dream Alistair: He's a darkspawn. Kill him.
PC: But the Blights?
Dream Alistair: His experiments have already caused new kinds of problems, and what if he can't end the Blights? Then we have the Blights and these new problems. And whatever this Mother is...she sounds like bad news. Also his fault.
PC: Right.
Dream Alistair: He also knocked you out, experimented on you and, inexplicably, made you fight dragons for his own amusement.
PC: That was weird. If it weren't for Ser Pounce-a-lot, we'd all be dead.
Dream Alistair: Ser Pounce-a-lot? Do I even want to know? Just...kill the smart, powerful darkspawn. It shouldn't be that hard for the Hero of Ferelden. And then come home. Being king is hard.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 06 mai 2010 - 06:46 .