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[Thor Rand Al]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Gonna go out on a limb and say in this thread, people are gonna like Alistair's romance above all others. And since the guys don't get it, let me try to explainas best I can.

I don't see Alistair as "manipulatable" or "malleable". You cannot really change his character, except for the hardening, which is really just him getting the confidence to follow what he really feels inside. I am a very strong-willed person, and I can't have a relationship with someone that just rolls over. And there is a difference between easy-going, agreeable and having a lot in common and being a doormat. Alistair is the former, not the latter.

I think what gets most girls is that he is so very earnest. He's relatable, honest and really loves the PC and wants to make her happy. He wears his heart in his sleeve, as your companions will tell you. Something like that goes a long, long way with women.

You go girl.  That's it exactly.

[cmessaz]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Again, I think this comes down to the fact that you aren't a girl, so can't understand the way we think. And everyone is different. I think as woman, we understand Alistair and the life he's led.

Funny, because if I were a man I would go for Morrigan over Leliana. At least we can agree on that.

That's unfair.
A lot of girls hate the guy who keeps talking about himself and love the listener (my gf happens to be like that). Many prefer a "mysterious" kind of guy, which is not what Alsitair is at all. 
Many others like mature men. I do not see Alistair being mature, at least not prior hardening.

You girls are not so unknown to us men as you think you know. Soemtimes you can be very predictable lol 

Well, I didn't mean to say that ALL girls like Alistair, as I know that isn't true. It just depends on the kind of person you are I suppose. He is romantic, willing to let his softer side show, and he is akward, which like Leliana says, is endearing.

[cmessaz]

Yeah, I think Lady has pretty much summed it up. This is why she is the priestess of us Alistairians.

[Addai]

Axekix wrote...

Maybe the fact that he is so manipulatable is part of the allure?

I just think that is the way of the game, myself.  I believe it was SurelyForth who pointed out that none of the other romances have scenes like Alistair's where he grabs you at camp (i.e. the cutscene triggers when you enter camp) and he is trying to advance the relationship, either through the rose, the tent, or if the PC initiates the tent, his "I want you to be the last" talk.

The game makes it so that the PC is in control.  Just look at the screaming over the few times NPCs don't "cooperate" in the game.  Can you imagine...?

[Lady Jess]

Axekix wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

No, I have not, though I have read about it sufficiently to get an idea. I can not imagine it being superior to the Morrigan romance in any way. Of course I am talking about the romance in general. Whether Morrigan is a better character than Alistair (duh) is another thing.

Having done the Alistair romance (pre-landsmeet) I can't say I really understand his romantic appeal.  I mean I get the fact that women appreciate that he's so open, but he's SO painfully self-conscious I find it gets a little annoying having to reasure him in every conversation. 

His "swooping" kiss and his proposition at camp are the only times he seems to take any initiative on anything really (part of that being game mechanics I know, but even compared to the other romances, Alistair seems far more passive imo).  But I'm not a woman, so... *shrug*.

Maybe the fact that he is so manipulatable is part of the allure?

I never had to reassure him in every conversation or saw painfully self conscious?

[Addai]

I really think Alistair's appeal is no mystery. I think of Fiona's realization in the Deep Roads that after all, Maric was just a good man, the last thing she expected him to be. He is endearing and has a geeky sense of humor- nothing like a man that makes you laugh- but at the base of it all he is just a really good man. Loyal, decent, kindhearted. For my elven characters especially, this so disarms them that it's like catnip. LOL



Now, I'll say that the appeal of Zevran is not far off from that, either. His past is just more "colorful," so the goodness is buried under a lot of crap. A line from Sarah McLachlan always sticks in my mind about him: "A beautiful f*cked-up man."

[Axekix]

Lady Jess wrote...

Axekix wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

No, I have not, though I have read about it sufficiently to get an idea. I can not imagine it being superior to the Morrigan romance in any way. Of course I am talking about the romance in general. Whether Morrigan is a better character than Alistair (duh) is another thing.

Having done the Alistair romance (pre-landsmeet) I can't say I really understand his romantic appeal.  I mean I get the fact that women appreciate that he's so open, but he's SO painfully self-conscious I find it gets a little annoying having to reasure him in every conversation. 

His "swooping" kiss and his proposition at camp are the only times he seems to take any initiative on anything really (part of that being game mechanics I know, but even compared to the other romances, Alistair seems far more passive imo).  But I'm not a woman, so... *shrug*.

Maybe the fact that he is so manipulatable is part of the allure?

I never had to reassure him in every conversation or saw painfully self conscious?

Well, he thinks he's not fit to lead, he thinks he'll be a terrible king, he has a really hard time telling the PC about his feelings (I dunno if it changes based on the romance trigger) and even after the romance I still got dialogue from him asking about my feelings for him, etc.

Even after bedding him he tip-toes nervously around that "love" line.  That's definitely the impression I got.

But I can understand where LD is coming from too in a way.  It's not something I would find attractive personally were I in that position but obviously it works for a lot of you. 
Hahaha, 600+ pages of "gushing!" Gaider must be on to something.

[Lady Jess]

Addai67 wrote...

I really think Alistair's appeal is no mystery. I think of Fiona's realization in the Deep Roads that after all, Maric was just a good man, the last thing she expected him to be. He is endearing and has a geeky sense of humor- nothing like a man that makes you laugh- but at the base of it all he is just a really good man. Loyal, decent, kindhearted. For my elven characters especially, this so disarms them that it's like catnip. LOL

Now, I'll say that the appeal of Zevran is not far off from that, either. His past is just more "colorful," so the goodness is buried under a lot of crap. A line from Sarah McLachlan always sticks in my mind about him: "A beautiful f*cked-up man."

And he can laugh at himself.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Axekix wrote...
Hahaha, 600+ pages of "gushing!" Gaider must be on to something.

In that case, Tali is evidently the best romance ever.
 
No but seriously, Gaider (or whoever wrote Morrigan) scare me a bit. It's like Morrigan was written specifically for my tastes

[Axekix]

yukidama wrote...

Well, for me at least, I have no interest in such things IRL so I can't really tell you if it is because I prefer to date people like Alistair. In reality, I prefer romancing Alistair in the game because I like his character the best. Most of my favorite characters tend to be the idealistic, honest, sweet-yet-snarky types. So Alistair is right up my alley as far as favorites go. I like his romance storyline because he is sweet and not super aggressive when pursuing the PC, not despite it.

Really?  I find this very interesting. 

[Herr Uhl]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Axekix wrote...
Hahaha, 600+ pages of "gushing!" Gaider must be on to something.

In that case, Tali is evidently the best romance ever.
 
No but seriously, Gaider (or whoever wrote Morrigan) scare me a bit. It's like Morrigan was written specifically for my tastes

He wrote Morrigan, Zevran and Alastair.

But Mary Kirby is superior.

[Axekix]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Axekix wrote...
Hahaha, 600+ pages of "gushing!" Gaider must be on to something.

In that case, Tali is evidently the best romance ever.
 
No but seriously, Gaider (or whoever wrote Morrigan) scare me a bit. It's like Morrigan was written specifically for my tastes

Oh, if you read Gaider's posts you see exactly where Morrigan gets it from

[tmp7704]

Axekix wrote...

even after the romance I still got dialogue from him asking about my feelings for him, etc.

Even after bedding him he tip-toes nervously around that "love" line.  That's definitely the impression I got.

But I can understand where LD is coming from too in a way.  It's not something I would find attractive personally were I in that position but obviously it works for a lot of you. 

The fact he doesn't turn into a dick who takes the woman for granted as soon as he gets in bed with her may be part of the appeal. Just a thought.

I never got impression he's shy about expressing his feelings, btw. At least if you don't play active/forward character yourself, he's the one who initiates the "i love you" things and the like.

[cmessaz]

Wow. You guys who actually like the Zevran romance, please enlighten me on why you like it? I can't get as into it as Alistair's. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Plus I have to morph him because his appearance in vanilla just doesn't do it for me.

[cmessaz]

tmp7704 wrote...

Axekix wrote...

even after the romance I still got dialogue from him asking about my feelings for him, etc.

Even after bedding him he tip-toes nervously around that "love" line.  That's definitely the impression I got.

But I can understand where LD is coming from too in a way.  It's not something I would find attractive personally were I in that position but obviously it works for a lot of you. 

The fact he doesn't turn into a dick who takes the woman for granted as soon as he gets in bed with her may be part of the appeal. Just a thought.

I never got impression he's shy about expressing his feelings, btw. At least if you don't play active/forward character yourself, he's the one who initiates the "i love you" things and the like.

And the nail has been hit on the head.

[Lady Jess]

Axekix wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

Axekix wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

No, I have not, though I have read about it sufficiently to get an idea. I can not imagine it being superior to the Morrigan romance in any way. Of course I am talking about the romance in general. Whether Morrigan is a better character than Alistair (duh) is another thing.

Having done the Alistair romance (pre-landsmeet) I can't say I really understand his romantic appeal.  I mean I get the fact that women appreciate that he's so open, but he's SO painfully self-conscious I find it gets a little annoying having to reasure him in every conversation. 

His "swooping" kiss and his proposition at camp are the only times he seems to take any initiative on anything really (part of that being game mechanics I know, but even compared to the other romances, Alistair seems far more passive imo).  But I'm not a woman, so... *shrug*.

Maybe the fact that he is so manipulatable is part of the allure?

I never had to reassure him in every conversation or saw painfully self conscious?

Well, he thinks he's not fit to lead, he thinks he'll be a terrible king, he has a really hard time telling the PC about his feelings (I dunno if it changes based on the romance trigger) and even after the romance I still got dialogue from him asking about my feelings for him, etc.

Even after bedding him he tip-toes nervously around that "love" line.  That's definitely the impression I got.

But I can understand where LD is coming from too in a way.  It's not something I would find attractive personally were I in that position but obviously it works for a lot of you. 
Hahaha, 600+ pages of "gushing!" Gaider must be on to something.

Did you harden him after meeting his sister? I've got at least 3 romanced Alistair endings and he's only ever asked about my feelings after the tent scene "so where do we go from here" I said we stay together no matter what, and the next question about the relationship was the PC's to ask (where do you see this going). That was it.  And as far as his stumbling a bit asking a girl to his tent for the first time, or asking if she's interested in him, well I personally would rather that than some guy that finds it oh so easy to say such things. You have to remember how sheltered the guy was, the fact that he's never HAD a relationship, never thought he would, has rarely been AROUND women, and has had it beaten into his head that he couldn't lead for 20 years. Considering all that...of course he'd need reassurance that he can lead an entire country and be awkward with girls think he did pretty well.

[LadyDamodred]

Axekix wrote...
Well, he thinks he's not fit to lead, he thinks he'll be a terrible king, he has a really hard time telling the PC about his feelings (I dunno if it changes based on the romance trigger) and even after the romance I still got dialogue from him asking about my feelings for him, etc.

Even after bedding him he tip-toes nervously around that "love" line.  That's definitely the impression I got.

But I can understand where LD is coming from too in a way.  It's not something I would find attractive personally were I in that position but obviously it works for a lot of you. 
Hahaha, 600+ pages of "gushing!" Gaider must be on to something.

Keep in mind, this is a product of his upbringing.  If you pursue any type of relationship, romantic or otherwise with him, you see the flashes of what he could have been if things had been different.  Hardening helps change this, as he does become more confident afterwards because his faith in himself is stronger.  And however nervous or unsure he might be, you always know that he cares about and loves you.  It's nice to see someone really thinking about what you like and want, and not just their own desires.

[Lady Jess]

cmessaz wrote...

Wow. You guys who actually like the Zevran romance, please enlighten me on why you like it? I can't get as into it as Alistair's. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Plus I have to morph him because his appearance in vanilla just doesn't do it for me.

It doesn't hit it's full potential til the landsmeet section, after you meet Taliesen. And yes, they did a bad job on his morph.

[KnightofPhoenix]

tmp7704 wrote...
The fact he doesn't turn into a dick who takes the woman for granted as soon as he gets in bed with her may be part of the appeal. Just a thought.

Yes, which goes back to my post a whie back, saying that Alistair's sincerity is a big factor and that is lacking in most men these days.

[Axekix]

tmp7704 wrote...

Axekix wrote...

even after the romance I still got dialogue from him asking about my feelings for him, etc.

Even after bedding him he tip-toes nervously around that "love" line.  That's definitely the impression I got.

But I can understand where LD is coming from too in a way.  It's not something I would find attractive personally were I in that position but obviously it works for a lot of you. 

The fact he doesn't turn into a dick who takes the woman for granted as soon as he gets in bed with her may be part of the appeal. Just a thought.

Erm... that's not what I meant.  I mean he still acts very nervous about it, even after sleeping with you.  I would think his confidence would be at an all time high personally.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
It's nice to see someone really thinking about what you like and want, and not just their own desires.

I am very tempted to contest that. But we will go back to the same old discussion, so I won't.

[Lady Jess]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Axekix wrote...
Well, he thinks he's not fit to lead, he thinks he'll be a terrible king, he has a really hard time telling the PC about his feelings (I dunno if it changes based on the romance trigger) and even after the romance I still got dialogue from him asking about my feelings for him, etc.

Even after bedding him he tip-toes nervously around that "love" line.  That's definitely the impression I got.

But I can understand where LD is coming from too in a way.  It's not something I would find attractive personally were I in that position but obviously it works for a lot of you. 
Hahaha, 600+ pages of "gushing!" Gaider must be on to something.

Keep in mind, this is a product of his upbringing.  If you pursue any type of relationship, romantic or otherwise with him, you see the flashes of what he could have been if things had been different.  Hardening helps change this, as he does become more confident afterwards because his faith in himself is stronger.  And however nervous or unsure he might be, you always know that he cares about and loves you.  It's nice to see someone really thinking about what you like and want, and not just their own desires.

And the faith he shows in your PC is also awesome. I love the Kolgrim line "I'll just assume you have something amazing and sneaky in mind" when you tell Kolgrim you'll take the blood to the ashes.

[cmessaz]

Lady Jess wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Wow. You guys who actually like the Zevran romance, please enlighten me on why you like it? I can't get as into it as Alistair's. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Plus I have to morph him because his appearance in vanilla just doesn't do it for me.

It doesn't hit it's full potential til the landsmeet section, after you meet Taliesen. And yes, they did a bad job on his morph.

I did it all the way through, but it was pre ejoslin. I thought it was just not as well written as Alistair's.

[LadyDamodred]

cmessaz wrote...

Wow. You guys who actually like the Zevran romance, please enlighten me on why you like it? I can't get as into it as Alistair's. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Plus I have to morph him because his appearance in vanilla just doesn't do it for me.

Why do I like it?  B/c it a way it is very similar to the Alistair romance.  In Zevran's case, you start out with this person who is cocky and confident and knowing and as the story progresses, he has to come to grips with a lot of the things that were done to him.  Like Alistair, he is damaged and it hinders his ability to have a full and complete life.  When he realizes the full extent of his feelings for the PC, it scares him because it is anathema to everything he's been taught his entire life.  When he finally overcomes that, and can be honest with himself and the PC, it's pretty friggin' awesome.  Your PC is the only person he has truly ever loved.  Even Rinna, who touched him, didn't capture his heart the way you do.

[Lady Jess]

Axekix wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Axekix wrote...

even after the romance I still got dialogue from him asking about my feelings for him, etc.

Even after bedding him he tip-toes nervously around that "love" line.  That's definitely the impression I got.

But I can understand where LD is coming from too in a way.  It's not something I would find attractive personally were I in that position but obviously it works for a lot of you. 

The fact he doesn't turn into a dick who takes the woman for granted as soon as he gets in bed with her may be part of the appeal. Just a thought.

Erm... that's not what I meant.  I mean he still acts very nervous about it, even after sleeping with you.  I would think his confidence would be at an all time high personally.

He asks one time where the relationship goes from there. It's not his nature to sleep with a woman once and be done, he wants to know thats not what he just did.

Top of the page! The lean of hotness.

Modifié par Lady Jess, 09 mai 2010 - 12:47 .