60083 réponses à ce sujet

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
It's nice to see someone really thinking about what you like and want, and not just their own desires.

I am very tempted to contest that. But we will go back to the same old discussion, so I won't.

Would you really contest that?  That it's not nice to see someone put you above themselves?  With the people you loev, isn't their happiness and well-being more important than your own?

[cmessaz]

LadyDamodred wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Wow. You guys who actually like the Zevran romance, please enlighten me on why you like it? I can't get as into it as Alistair's. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Plus I have to morph him because his appearance in vanilla just doesn't do it for me.

Why do I like it?  B/c it a way it is very similar to the Alistair romance.  In Zevran's case, you start out with this person who is cocky and confident and knowing and as the story progresses, he has to come to grips with a lot of the things that were done to him.  Like Alistair, he is damaged and it hinders his ability to have a full and complete life.  When he realizes the full extent of his feelings for the PC, it scares him because it is anathema to everything he's been taught his entire life.  When he finally overcomes that, and can be honest with himself and the PC, it's pretty friggin' awesome.  Your PC is the only person he has truly ever loved.  Even Rinna, who touched him, didn't capture his heart the way you do.

I did go through to the end with it, but still just didn't find it appealing and have trouble doing it again. But I will just to be fair. Eventually.

[tmp7704]

Lady Jess wrote...

It doesn't hit it's full potential til the landsmeet section, after you meet Taliesen. And yes, they did a bad job on his morph.

I rather like Zevran's default appearance, just something about the lips throw me off. They feel very large for a guy... maybe they were shooting for a "sensual, kissable" impression or something like that, but it's bit too weird to get over it 

[Axekix]

Well, as interesting as I'm finding this convo (seriously) I must be off for the night. So enjoy fawning over Alistair all you want!



A parting thread contribution:

[cmessaz]

My contribution since it hasn't been seen in far too long

[LadyDamodred]

Axekix wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Axekix wrote...

even after the romance I still got dialogue from him asking about my feelings for him, etc.

Even after bedding him he tip-toes nervously around that "love" line.  That's definitely the impression I got.

But I can understand where LD is coming from too in a way.  It's not something I would find attractive personally were I in that position but obviously it works for a lot of you. 

The fact he doesn't turn into a dick who takes the woman for granted as soon as he gets in bed with her may be part of the appeal. Just a thought.

Erm... that's not what I meant.  I mean he still acts very nervous about it, even after sleeping with you.  I would think his confidence would be at an all time high personally.

I guess it depends what you think he's nervous about.  I always see it as him being nervous that he could suddenly lose this new found happiness the way he's lost everything else.  He's never had anyone care soley about him and only him.  That this one person has so much potential to make you happier than you have ever been or utterly destroy you.  That you have the same power over them.  It's kind of terrifying when you think about it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
It's nice to see someone really thinking about what you like and want, and not just their own desires.

I am very tempted to contest that. But we will go back to the same old discussion, so I won't.

Would you really contest that?  That it's not nice to see someone put you above themselves?  With the people you loev, isn't their happiness and well-being more important than your own?

What I meant is that I contest that Alistair is like that.
He has shown himself capable of doing something incredibly  stupid, even when romanced, at the spur of the moment with nothing in his mind except his own desire, not giving a **** about the person he supposedely loves that is going to battle the blight on her own, since he abandons her.  

Of course you will retort that this person supposedly betrayed him (proof that he thinks if his desire is not being sated, he sees it as betrayal) and we will go back to square 1.  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 09 mai 2010 - 12:55 .

[LadyDamodred]

cmessaz wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Wow. You guys who actually like the Zevran romance, please enlighten me on why you like it? I can't get as into it as Alistair's. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Plus I have to morph him because his appearance in vanilla just doesn't do it for me.

Why do I like it?  B/c it a way it is very similar to the Alistair romance.  In Zevran's case, you start out with this person who is cocky and confident and knowing and as the story progresses, he has to come to grips with a lot of the things that were done to him.  Like Alistair, he is damaged and it hinders his ability to have a full and complete life.  When he realizes the full extent of his feelings for the PC, it scares him because it is anathema to everything he's been taught his entire life.  When he finally overcomes that, and can be honest with himself and the PC, it's pretty friggin' awesome.  Your PC is the only person he has truly ever loved.  Even Rinna, who touched him, didn't capture his heart the way you do.

I did go through to the end with it, but still just didn't find it appealing and have trouble doing it again. But I will just to be fair. Eventually.

Perhaps we should ask what you don't find appealing about it?  Like I said, I rp his romance in a variety of different ways and it changes how compelling the romance is.

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
It's nice to see someone really thinking about what you like and want, and not just their own desires.

I am very tempted to contest that. But we will go back to the same old discussion, so I won't.

Would you really contest that?  That it's not nice to see someone put you above themselves?  With the people you loev, isn't their happiness and well-being more important than your own?

What I meant is that I contest that Alistair is like that.
He has shown himself capable of doing something incredibly  stupid, even when romanced, at the spur of the moment with nothing in his mind except his own desire, not giving a **** about the person he supposedely loves that is going to battle the blight on her own, since he abandons her.  

Of course you will retort that this person supposedly betrayed him (proof that he thinks if his desire is not being sated, he sees it as betrayal) and we will go back to square 1.  

Ah, I see what you meant.  Yeah, it would kind of just go down that path, since we see how he reacts differently.  I will say, though, that it's not a matter of his desire not being sated that he sees as the betrayal.  You can turn him down for stuff, deny him things, and it's not a betraya;.  And depending on how you've romanced him, it's a bigger betrayal for some characters than others.

[cmessaz]

Lady- I don't know why I don't find it appealing. I don't know if maybe it's his whole enjoying killing people thing, or what. I just can't connect to him. Maybe I choose the wrong dialogue options or something, I don't know. But I don't think it is sweet that you tell him you love him and he says "I know" instead of "I love you too". I guess that gets me too. Just not as romantic as Alistair's.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
 You can turn him down for stuff, deny him things, and it's not a betraya;. 

Because his desire for revenge is greater than the little things. Evidently, including his love.
I don't mind vengeance, I can be a vengeful person. But that's just unhealthy.

[mellifera]

cmessaz wrote...

Lady- I don't know why I don't find it appealing. I don't know if maybe it's his whole enjoying killing people thing, or what. I just can't connect to him. Maybe I choose the wrong dialogue options or something, I don't know. But I don't think it is sweet that you tell him you love him and he says "I know" instead of "I love you too". I guess that gets me too. Just not as romantic as Alistair's.

Zevran is Han Solo?

[Gilsa]

I'll be honest -- one of the reasons why Alistair's romance appeals to me more is because he's so central to the story. It's easier to connect with the mission. Morrigan is the same way -- she's so central to the plot that it's easier to be drawn in by her as well. Zevran and Leliana are just there. They're great characters, but they stay in the background when it comes to Grey Warden business. I don't think either of them have any desire to become grey wardens, even though they'll help the warden rebuild.

That's why I like the archangel so much in ME. He "gets" it. The whole spectre business, the whole dark reapers thing. Everyone on the ship in ME2 is just there because of duty or your character got some kind of leverage on them, but the archangel  just -- GETS -- it whether or not he's romanced.

[KnightofPhoenix]

yukidama wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Lady- I don't know why I don't find it appealing. I don't know if maybe it's his whole enjoying killing people thing, or what. I just can't connect to him. Maybe I choose the wrong dialogue options or something, I don't know. But I don't think it is sweet that you tell him you love him and he says "I know" instead of "I love you too". I guess that gets me too. Just not as romantic as Alistair's.

Zevran is Han Solo?

Never!
Han Solo is the definition of badass and unlike Zevran, he doesn't really have a past like his he is trying to hide.

Plus, who other than him can say" I know", when a stuck up princess finally admits her love?
Han Solo is the only redeeming quality of the "good guys" in Star Wars.

[cmessaz]

Gilsa wrote...

I'll be honest -- one of the reasons why Alistair's romance appeals to me more is because he's so central to the story. It's easier to connect with the mission. Morrigan is the same way -- she's so central to the plot that it's easier to be drawn in by her as well. Zevran and Leliana are just there. They're great characters, but they stay in the background when it comes to Grey Warden business. I don't think either of them have any desire to become grey wardens, even though they'll help the warden rebuild.

That's why I like the archangel so much in ME. He "gets" it. The whole spectre business, the whole dark reapers thing. Everyone on the ship in ME2 is just there because of duty or your character got some kind of leverage on them, but the archangel  just -- GETS -- it whether or not he's romanced.

Maybe that has a lot to do with it.

[cmessaz]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

yukidama wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Lady- I don't know why I don't find it appealing. I don't know if maybe it's his whole enjoying killing people thing, or what. I just can't connect to him. Maybe I choose the wrong dialogue options or something, I don't know. But I don't think it is sweet that you tell him you love him and he says "I know" instead of "I love you too". I guess that gets me too. Just not as romantic as Alistair's.

Zevran is Han Solo?

Never!
Han Solo is the definition of badass and unlike Zevran, he doesn't really have a past like his he is trying to hide.

Plus, who other than him can say" I know", when a stuck up princess finally admits her love?
Han Solo is the only redeeming quality of the "good guys" in Star Wars.

I must concur with KoP here. Plus Harrison Ford is hot.

Modifié par cmessaz, 09 mai 2010 - 01:13 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Gilsa wrote...
That's why I like the archangel so much in ME. He "gets" it. The whole spectre business, the whole dark reapers thing. Everyone on the ship in ME2 is just there because of duty or your character got some kind of leverage on them, but the archangel  just -- GETS -- it whether or not he's romanced.

EXACTLY!
I love Garrus (and Wrex). Behind his seeming recklessness, he is mature beyond his years (and a total ruthless badass).
He is the only companion saying something positive about preserving the Collector base (while expressing understandable fear that it may not be used well), the others just moan with little reasoning behind it.

[Miri1984]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
It's nice to see someone really thinking about what you like and want, and not just their own desires.

I am very tempted to contest that. But we will go back to the same old discussion, so I won't.

Would you really contest that?  That it's not nice to see someone put you above themselves?  With the people you loev, isn't their happiness and well-being more important than your own?

What I meant is that I contest that Alistair is like that.
He has shown himself capable of doing something incredibly  stupid, even when romanced, at the spur of the moment with nothing in his mind except his own desire, not giving a **** about the person he supposedely loves that is going to battle the blight on her own, since he abandons her.  

Of course you will retort that this person supposedly betrayed him (proof that he thinks if his desire is not being sated, he sees it as betrayal) and we will go back to square 1.  

May I respectfully point out that this discussion has been had before?

[Thor Rand Al]

Lady Jess wrote...
Top of the page! The lean of hotness.

OMG he's adorable in that shot.  I like popping in n seeing that at the top of the page

[KnightofPhoenix]

Miri1984 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
It's nice to see someone really thinking about what you like and want, and not just their own desires.

I am very tempted to contest that. But we will go back to the same old discussion, so I won't.

Would you really contest that?  That it's not nice to see someone put you above themselves?  With the people you loev, isn't their happiness and well-being more important than your own?

What I meant is that I contest that Alistair is like that.
He has shown himself capable of doing something incredibly  stupid, even when romanced, at the spur of the moment with nothing in his mind except his own desire, not giving a **** about the person he supposedely loves that is going to battle the blight on her own, since he abandons her.  

Of course you will retort that this person supposedly betrayed him (proof that he thinks if his desire is not being sated, he sees it as betrayal) and we will go back to square 1.  

May I respectfully point out that this discussion has been had before?

I know, hence

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I am very tempted to contest that. But we will go back to the same old discussion, so I won't.

I apologize for derailing.

[errant_knight]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...  You can turn him down for stuff, deny him things, and it's not a betraya;. 

Because his desire for revenge is greater than the little things. Evidently, including his love. I don't mind vengeance, I can be a vengeful person. But that's just unhealthy.

I don't think may would argue that it isn't his finest quality. It's his 'fatal flaw', in the same way that indecision if Hamlet's. It doesn't negate his good qualities, it just makes him very human and capable of making a tragic mistake.

[LadyDamodred]

*resists the urge to reopen the debate b/c she knows KoP will never see the light*



At least almost everyone else here gets it.



cmess: About his "I know." line.... I can see where you're coming from. I just take it in the context that this is all new and scary to him. Realizing he is in love with you terrifies him out of his mind because it leaves him so vulnerable. That lines come at the gates, right? I think he realizes he might be losing the only thing he cares about and he is trying to protect himself. It's a futile gesture, b/c if you do the US he never loves again, but it goes to show just how broken he is. My characters know that he loves them, though, so it's okay.

[Miri1984]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
It's nice to see someone really thinking about what you like and want, and not just their own desires.

I am very tempted to contest that. But we will go back to the same old discussion, so I won't.

Would you really contest that?  That it's not nice to see someone put you above themselves?  With the people you loev, isn't their happiness and well-being more important than your own?

What I meant is that I contest that Alistair is like that.
He has shown himself capable of doing something incredibly  stupid, even when romanced, at the spur of the moment with nothing in his mind except his own desire, not giving a **** about the person he supposedely loves that is going to battle the blight on her own, since he abandons her.  

Of course you will retort that this person supposedly betrayed him (proof that he thinks if his desire is not being sated, he sees it as betrayal) and we will go back to square 1.  

May I respectfully point out that this discussion has been had before?

I know, hence

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I am very tempted to contest that. But we will go back to the same old discussion, so I won't.

I apologize for derailing.

Ooops. Didn't read that line. Sorry for prompting an unnecessary apology. OOh, this could go on for hours!:happy:

[KnightofPhoenix]

errant_knight wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...  You can turn him down for stuff, deny him things, and it's not a betraya;. 

Because his desire for revenge is greater than the little things. Evidently, including his love. I don't mind vengeance, I can be a vengeful person. But that's just unhealthy.

I don't think may would argue that it isn't his finest quality. It's his 'fatal flaw', in the same way that indecision if Hamlet's. It doesn't negate his good qualities, it just makes him very human and capable of making a tragic mistake.

Of course.
I was just contesting the theory that Alistair puts his love over his desires, because he clearly doesn't, vis a vis this one desire.

[Miri1984]

cmessaz wrote...

Lady- I don't know why I don't find it appealing. I don't know if maybe it's his whole enjoying killing people thing, or what. I just can't connect to him. Maybe I choose the wrong dialogue options or something, I don't know. But I don't think it is sweet that you tell him you love him and he says "I know" instead of "I love you too". I guess that gets me too. Just not as romantic as Alistair's.

I don't get that line! At the gates when I say "I love you, Alistair," he says "And I love you... always." It's total *squee*.

OH, sorry, you were talking about Zevran. Eek. I'm not tracking well. Not enough sleep last night. Sorry.

Modifié par Miri1984, 09 mai 2010 - 01:33 .