60083 réponses à ce sujet

[DahliaLynn]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

Holy maker, I just finished Ostagar on my Dalish, who I thought would have no real reason to execute Loghain. Then I let the cutscene play after the beacon, which I'd been skipping. I paid attention, to the torch lights in the distance. I watched them stay still, until Loghain called the retreat. Then I watched them all move with the visible troops. We really COULD have won the battle. He really DID leave us to die. And his men really COULD have made the difference.

No, it is definately not certain that the battle was winnable. RtO hints heavily at it. Even Cailan knew that the probability of losing was great. The mages scattered easily and Cailan's position was overwhelmed.

And David Gaider also commented that the darkspawn were much more numerous than expected at Ostagar, in addition to being smarter (preempting against the beacon). So victory was surely not assured had Loghain acted. And if he did join and lost, then Ferelden effectively lost all of its army, instead of a part of it.

So you say it is quite possible that Loghain made the right decision? If you look at his track record after that,
--poisoning Arl Eamon...blaming the Wardens....among others, do you
really think he made that decision because it was the "right" thing to
do? Seems like he was after the thrown and
stopped at nothing to gain power. You think he did all that for the greater cause of saving Ferelden? 
on an opposite note, I also noticed that he could have retreated earlier, but he *waited* for the beacon to be lit, possibly assesing the battle, then deciding whether to attack or not.
--confused...

[Addai]

cmessaz wrote...

Lady- I don't know why I don't find it appealing. I don't know if maybe it's his whole enjoying killing people thing, or what. I just can't connect to him. Maybe I choose the wrong dialogue options or something, I don't know. But I don't think it is sweet that you tell him you love him and he says "I know" instead of "I love you too". I guess that gets me too. Just not as romantic as Alistair's.

Comparisons of Zevran and Alistair make me itch, like I'm about to get a case of hives.  But I'll say, about this, that if you ever played through the Zevran romance without that moment, the 1st time I saw it was.... oh...my...God.  You can see that he wants to say the words so badly.  His heart is so exposed in his face.  The fact that he can't say it (yet) is like watching Alistair try to ask you whether you care for him, except for Zevran it has literally meant life and death to be able to close off his feelings since he was a small child (did you see his Fade dream?).  You don't turn that kind of ship on a dime, and yet he has.

Here's a screenshot of the moment.



Re. his physical appearance, Ali is more my natural leaning, but it grew on me once I learned to love the character.

[cmessaz]

Addai- yeah I've seen that scene. But I still can't get into the Zevran romance. When I romance him, it's just not as engaging. But again I think it just depends on individual tastes. I feel sorry for him, etc etc. But I also don't like the whole human on elf thing, and I play far more humans than elves.

Modifié par cmessaz, 09 mai 2010 - 02:50 .

[LadyDamodred]

Why do the comparisons make you itch?

And yes, poor, poor broken Zevran. ( ._.)

cmess:  You're right.  Like, I cannot romance Leliana.  Ugh.  Did it once to unlock the achievement and then went back to an older save and hooked up with Zevran instead.

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 09 mai 2010 - 02:49 .

[Merilsell]

Zevran <3

[Lady Jess]

Addai67 wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Lady- I don't know why I don't find it appealing. I don't know if maybe it's his whole enjoying killing people thing, or what. I just can't connect to him. Maybe I choose the wrong dialogue options or something, I don't know. But I don't think it is sweet that you tell him you love him and he says "I know" instead of "I love you too". I guess that gets me too. Just not as romantic as Alistair's.

Comparisons of Zevran and Alistair make me itch, like I'm about to get a case of hives.  But I'll say, about this, that if you ever played through the Zevran romance without that moment, the 1st time I saw it was.... oh...my...God.  You can see that he wants to say the words so badly.  His heart is so exposed in his face.  The fact that he can't say it (yet) is like watching Alistair try to ask you whether you care for him, except for Zevran it has literally meant life and death to be able to close off his feelings since he was a small child (did you see his Fade dream?).  You don't turn that kind of ship on a dime, and yet he has.

Here's a screenshot of the moment.



Re. his physical appearance, Ali is more my natural leaning, but it grew on me once I learned to love the character.

i agree. It isn't that he loves any less than Alistair, he doesn't. He loves just as much, it's just a really scary thing for him. And that moment you can just hear it. He may only says "Yes. I..I know that" but it's how he says it, and the look on his face.  He tutters it, like the words want to come out but can't

[SurelyForth]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Why do the comparisons make you itch?

And yes, poor, poor broken Zevran. ( ._.)

cmess:  You're right.  Like, I cannot romance Leliana.  Ugh.  Did it once to unlock the achievement and then went back to an older save and hooked up with Zevran instead.

I'm not Addai, but I also hate comparing Zev to Alistair, especially as romantic partners. There is really no basis for comparison between them besides the fact that they are male. Zevran is physically experienced, has a great deal of life under his belt and, once he joins the Warden, has no duty beyond his oath to him/her. Alistair has been sheltered, socially and sexually, and has his birthright and his commitment to the Wardens hanging over his head and his relationship with the PC. 

On the other hand, love is easy for Alistair while it isn't for Zevran so the fact that Zev can come to love the Warden is an amazing thing.

I just think they're both used to slight the other and they shouldn't be, because they're both awesome in their own way. 

Modifié par SurelyForth, 09 mai 2010 - 03:05 .

[Addai]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Why do the comparisons make you itch?

And yes, poor, poor broken Zevran. ( ._.)

They spawn crappy generalizations and I've seen them turn into bashfests.  I love both characters and it makes me mad and sad when that happens.  I also think they are more alike, in the internal playout of the story, than they first appear.  They were both written by the same guy, after all.

[LadyDamodred]

SurelyForth wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Why do the comparisons make you itch?

And yes, poor, poor broken Zevran. ( ._.)

cmess:  You're right.  Like, I cannot romance Leliana.  Ugh.  Did it once to unlock the achievement and then went back to an older save and hooked up with Zevran instead.

I'm not Addai, but I also hate comparing Zev to Alistair, especially as romantic partners. There is really no basis for comparison between them besides the fact that they are male. Zevran is physically experienced, has a great deal of life under his belt and, once he joins the Warden, has no duty beyond his oath to him/her. Alistair has been sheltered, socially and sexually, and has his birthright and his commitment to the Wardens hanging over his head and his relationship with the PC. 

On the other hand, love is easy for Alistair while it isn't for Zevran so the fact that Zev can come to love the Warden is an amazing thing.

I just think they're both used to slight the other and they shouldn't be, because they're both awesome in their own way. 

I suppose you could look at it that way, but I think they have a lot in common and share a lot of the same traits.  They are both broken individuals who've really never had anyone love them; or, the few people they found were taken from them.  They have no idea what a normal, healthy relationships is like; they are both unsure of what to do when they find themselves falling in love; they both use humor to mask their vulnerabilities; they both come to find the person who completes them and they really can't ever let them go in their hearts.

I don't think love is easy for either of them, if for different reasons.  They are very different in other ways, and they are awesome in their own ways.  I don't think acknowledging the ways they are similar detracts from either of them.  I meant no disrespect or slighting when I say they are similar.  I love them both, and the shared traits are a part of that.

On a completely unrelated topic:  Does anyone know where in the toolset the CE wedding dialogue can be found?

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 09 mai 2010 - 03:13 .

[cmessaz]

Ok, I don't want to compare them as romantic partners guys. I just have trouble getting into Zevrans romance, and it's a personal thing. I was just asking if maybe I'm doing something wrong with it, because others seem to like it so much. I really don't see it's appeal. I wouldn't say such a thing if I had not tried the romance at all, thats not my way. Just like I don't like deul wield Alistair, I have tried and didn't like it.
I don't find it sweet that he can't say he loves you. I may die in this battle.

Modifié par cmessaz, 09 mai 2010 - 03:18 .

[SurelyForth]

Addai said what I was actually trying to say. I know that they have some similarities in their history, how they fall in love and their characterization, I just went for the areas where either one can get blasted for not being like the other.

The CE wedding stuff should be in the CE origin file, shouldn't it? Unless you're looking for the stuff later in the game, and I think that's under the Landsmeet folder.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 09 mai 2010 - 03:19 .

[LadyDamodred]

cmessaz wrote...

Ok, I don't want to compare them as romantic partners guys. I just have trouble getting into Zevrans romance, and it's a personal thing. I was just asking if maybe I'm doing something wrong with it, because others seem to like it so much. I really don't see it's appeal. I wouldn't say such a thing if I had not tried the romance at all, thats not my way. Just like I don't like deul wield Alistair, I have tried and didn't like it.
I don't find it sweet that he can't say he loves you. I may die in this battle.

And if you do, HE WILL NEVER LOVE AGAIN!

*weeps bitter tears*

Surely:  That's where I'm looking and I can't find it.  *frowns*

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 09 mai 2010 - 03:19 .

[cmessaz]

While that is sweet, it still doesn't improve my feelings on the romance, again I have actually done it. He doesn't say anything particularly sweet after the coronation. And the enjoy killing thing sort of turns me off. IDK, just personal preference.

[LadyDamodred]

Ah, I found the friggin' wedding dialogue. It was under [Valora] in the Valendrian dialogue tree. -.-

cmess: I see it as it's been the only way he's been able to have any power and control in his life. He is a slave, and so while he has no choice in the act of killing, he can still take power by taking ownership and making the kill *his* for want of a better description.

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 09 mai 2010 - 03:28 .

[SurelyForth]

Question for fic writers: How do you handle unsubstantiated character backstory/lore in your stories? I want to do some things, but I'm afraid of going too far into speculative territory.

[cmessaz]

That may be true, and again I don't hate Zevran. I always befriend him, and I enjoy being his friend FAR better than being his lover. The romance just doesn't appeal to me. I will have to stick with it for my Dalish mage, just for something new. But I find that I just don't get into the game as well. Oh well, back to other things.

[LadyDamodred]

SurelyForth wrote...

Question for fic writers: How do you handle unsubstantiated character backstory/lore in your stories? I want to do some things, but I'm afraid of going too far into speculative territory.

Like...?  For main characters or people we've met in the game?  I try to keep things logical and not lore breaking.  There's a lot you can add in, as long as it doesn't directly contradict what we know from the game.

[Lady Jess]

Alistair's first in party "I am a gray warden! duty! rawr!" speech.

[SurelyForth]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Like...?  For main characters or people we've met in the game?  I try to keep things logical and not lore breaking.  There's a lot you can add in, as long as it doesn't directly contradict what we know from the game.

Yeah, main characters and those that have only been introduced in outside materials (the books). I've never shared anything before, so now I'm a little freaked out about making a huge lore misstep, even if it's something that has been hinted at but never confirmed. 

For Addai: some Maricstair in Lothering. I think this is probably the first place where any given PC of mine is like "Dang, my fellow Grey Warden is handsome, yo." I think everything up until that point is a little too new/intense. 



And yes, my mage is already in splintmail. She's attracting ungodly amounts of aggro because of her fireballs and I was starting to feel cheaty in the Wings of Velvet set-up, so I rotated outfits and now Morri gets to look pretty in blue. 

Modifié par SurelyForth, 09 mai 2010 - 03:43 .

[mellifera]

[SurelyForth]

yukidama wrote...

Where did you come from? I almost posted a disclaimer along the lines of "Since yukidama hasn't posted for a while..."

Of course, this is a bad deterrent, since this line is quite possibly the best in the game and I get the sad giggles every time I see it or hear it.

[Serissia]

Wow! Alistair looks super sexy in this shot.

[Lady Jess]

Pleeeeeeeeease for the love of the maker put my splintmail back on!!

No. You said it had to be a pretty dress.

[Addai]

cmessaz wrote...

Ok, I don't want to compare them as romantic partners guys. I just have trouble getting into Zevrans romance, and it's a personal thing. I was just asking if maybe I'm doing something wrong with it, because others seem to like it so much. I really don't see it's appeal. I wouldn't say such a thing if I had not tried the romance at all, thats not my way. Just like I don't like deul wield Alistair, I have tried and didn't like it.
I don't find it sweet that he can't say he loves you. I may die in this battle.

Oh it's fine, like in real-life relationships, who knows what really attracts certain people to others?  I can't get the Leliana attraction at all, but she has plenty of devotees.  I just get nervous in comparison discussions.  Once bitten and all that.

I found I could connect to the character when I had a PC that I thought "got" him, my CEF.  For me, at least, once I've been able to empathize with my own PC in a situation, that opens up that story to me.  Like there are certain parts of the game I've never been able to play because I can't see my PC there (sparing Loghain, defiling the ashes).

[mellifera]

SurelyForth wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Where did you come from? I almost posted a disclaimer along the lines of "Since yukidama hasn't posted for a while..."

Of course, this is a bad deterrent, since this line is quite possibly the best in the game and I get the sad giggles every time I see it or hear it.

So when the cat's away the mice will play, huh? Hehe I am watching a game right now btu I come back to check once in a while. I try not to post since I'm drinking again bbut I had to leave a comment.

I think I shed tears laughing so hard when I first heard that line. The 'god' bit gets me every time.

Vanillastair version of the scene your cap is from, thouygh he is DW so I imagine someoen will take offense lol

Modifié par yukidama, 09 mai 2010 - 03:54 .