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[Addai]

Axekix wrote...

Maybe I misread him, but Alistair always struck me as being very protective of his loved ones.  Again it's not so much that I'd expect him to have to "save" the pc, more so it's the sentiment of at least trying to.
I mean if some guy threatened my gf right in front of me we would have a problem.

Whether deliberate or not, the Alistair romance seems geared toward what SurelyForth referred to, the BAMF female PC.  And some women players wouldn't like it if their male LI had to step in and save them.

The Morrigan romance is more set up to be the chivalrous romance, I think, with such lines as "I will always protect you."  I'm the sort of woman who  at stuff like that, so I wish you saw more of it in the game with a female PC.

Modifié par Addai67, 12 mai 2010 - 08:35 .

[SurelyForth]

cmessaz wrote...

I agree with Axekix, there should be something, like if your PC is a little elven mage. Not him going in swords blazing, but maybe something about "Hey, this trip is necessary Sten" or SOMETHING.

Of course, I strenuously disagree. One of the things I love about this game is that there is a more or less equal playing field across race and sex. My PC is almost always stronger or faster than him and my mages can blow him up by degrees. He recognizes this and respects that we can handle ourselves.

The way I see it, it's a slippery slope here. If he white knights the PC in Haven, then shouldn't he white knight her at the Landsmeet, or at Ostagar, or just leave her at camp all the time and take on this whole Blight thing himself? They're always going to be in danger, Sten's "uprising" is something that could be preventable, but the LI risks screwing things up even worse by interfering.

I think the only option that should be available might be a "Hey guys, back me up here?"

[errant_knight]

Axekix wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Surely
they could leave in an option to tell him to stfu and let you handle
it.  The fact that he doesn't even try just seems lame, borderline
OOC imo.

Not really OOC when he lets you run the
show and seems to genuinely respect your abilities as warrior. The only
time he interferes on the PC's behalf is at Goldanna's, and that's
because she's being a b*tch and you're only there as a favor to him.

Maybe I misread him, but Alistair always struck me as being very protective of his loved ones.  Again it's not so much that I'd expect him to have to "save" the pc, more so it's the sentiment of at least trying to.
I mean if some guy threatened my gf right in front of me we would have a problem.

Alistair feels no need to defend the PC from Sten. He's completely confident that she's every bit as good as he is, and therefore stepping in would be insulting and pointless. Doesn't mean he would't find it hard to watch. Besides, a better analogy would be if you were dating your boss at work and another employee challenged her authority. The last thing that would be helpful would be for you to say something, and she'd probably be pretty pissed if you tried.

[cmessaz]

Or something. I'm not saying he fights Sten or anything, but speaking up about why they are there would be nice. He is a fellow warden, and part of the reason we are trying to save Eamon.

[Addai]

SurelyForth wrote...
The way I see it, it's a slippery slope here. If he white knights the PC in Haven, then shouldn't he white knight her at the Landsmeet, or at Ostagar, or just leave her at camp all the time and take on this whole Blight thing himself? They're always going to be in danger, Sten's "uprising" is something that could be preventable, but the LI risks screwing things up even worse by interfering.

What about the fact that he (so I hear) fights with you against Leliana and/or Wynne when they attack you?

[errant_knight]

cmessaz wrote...

Or something. I'm not saying he fights Sten or anything, but speaking up about why they are there would be nice. He is a fellow warden, and part of the reason we are trying to save Eamon.

Then does he do it if you fight Zevran, or Wynne, or Leliana? It get's messy and undermines the PC. As I say, having him come up after the fight, or at camp and say something just to the PC, that would be okay

Edit: I just saw that he fights against Lelians and Wynne with you.... Not Zevran, though, huh? I suppose he only stays out of it when it's a duel.

Modifié par errant_knight, 12 mai 2010 - 08:42 .

[cmessaz]

errant_knight wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Or something. I'm not saying he fights Sten or anything, but speaking up about why they are there would be nice. He is a fellow warden, and part of the reason we are trying to save Eamon.

Then does he do it if you fight Zevran, or Wynne, or Leliana? It get's messy and undermines the PC. As I say, having him come up after the fight, or at camp and say something just to the PC, that would be okay

I'm looking for some sort of comment, not just for the female PC, but the male as well. He is the senior warden, and he comments on many things throughout the game. Why not here?

Modifié par cmessaz, 12 mai 2010 - 08:42 .

[errant_knight]

cmessaz wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Or something. I'm not saying he fights Sten or anything, but speaking up about why they are there would be nice. He is a fellow warden, and part of the reason we are trying to save Eamon.

Then does he do it if you fight Zevran, or Wynne, or Leliana? It get's messy and undermines the PC. As I say, having him come up after the fight, or at camp and say something just to the PC, that would be okay

I'm looking for some sort of comment, not just for the female PC, but the male as well. He is the senior warden, and he comments on many things throughout the game. Why not here?

If he's going to comment, he's going to fight, so I think he has to let you handle it, male of female, until after the fight

[SurelyForth]

Addai67 wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...
The way I see it, it's a slippery slope here. If he white knights the PC in Haven, then shouldn't he white knight her at the Landsmeet, or at Ostagar, or just leave her at camp all the time and take on this whole Blight thing himself? They're always going to be in danger, Sten's "uprising" is something that could be preventable, but the LI risks screwing things up even worse by interfering.

What about the fact that he (so I hear) fights with you against Leliana and/or Wynne when they attack you?

He fights alongside any PC in that situation, not just a LI.

[Axekix]

errant_knight wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Or something. I'm not saying he fights Sten or anything, but speaking up about why they are there would be nice. He is a fellow warden, and part of the reason we are trying to save Eamon.

Then does he do it if you fight Zevran, or Wynne, or Leliana? It get's messy and undermines the PC. As I say, having him come up after the fight, or at camp and say something just to the PC, that would be okay

I don't think it would really undermine the PC.  They are partners and/or lovers.  Him backing the PC would seem supportive to me more than anything.  And again, I'd be all for including an option to tell him to let you handle it or whatever. 

It just strikes me as odd that he says nothing at all considering the implications of Sten winning...

Modifié par Axekix, 12 mai 2010 - 08:45 .

[Serissia]

I just finished up the Broken Circle and Mage Origin. Most of the changes are minor but I did redo Jowan and Lily.

[cmessaz]

I don't see how trying to talk Sten down is undermining the PC. The fight will take place regardless, but it would be nice to hear him voice his opinion in the matter. After all HE put you in charge.

[Axekix]

cmessaz wrote...

I don't see how trying to talk Sten down is undermining the PC. The fight will take place regardless, but it would be nice to hear him voice his opinion in the matter. After all HE put you in charge.

Exactly!

[Lady Jess]

errant_knight wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Or something. I'm not saying he fights Sten or anything, but speaking up about why they are there would be nice. He is a fellow warden, and part of the reason we are trying to save Eamon.

Then does he do it if you fight Zevran, or Wynne, or Leliana? It get's messy and undermines the PC. As I say, having him come up after the fight, or at camp and say something just to the PC, that would be okay

Edit: I just saw that he fights against Lelians and Wynne with you.... Not Zevran, though, huh? I suppose he only stays out of it when it's a duel.

I had the fight in camp with Zevran, and nope he doesn't help. He stays hands off, as he should.

[Addai]

errant_knight wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Or something. I'm not saying he fights Sten or anything, but speaking up about why they are there would be nice. He is a fellow warden, and part of the reason we are trying to save Eamon.

Then does he do it if you fight Zevran, or Wynne, or Leliana? It get's messy and undermines the PC. As I say, having him come up after the fight, or at camp and say something just to the PC, that would be okay

Edit: I just saw that he fights against Lelians and Wynne with you.... Not Zevran, though, huh? I suppose he only stays out of it when it's a duel.

No, he also fights there, too.  I forgot about that since I always have Zevran fighting with me against the Crows, too.  Edit:  Oh, I see above that you were talking about a different fight and not the Crows ambush.

Modifié par Addai67, 12 mai 2010 - 08:50 .

[errant_knight]

I guess I can see that, but it would be a balancing act, letting him object without looking like a wuss for not jumping in once he'd objected, or making it look like he doesn't think the PC is capable on his/her own. And if he feels so strongly about not having two wardens available, why do they thake all the risks that they take throughout the game. The whole thing just gets problematic.
Edit. Didn't quote,so go up 3 and 4 posts to see what I'm answering.

Modifié par errant_knight, 12 mai 2010 - 08:53 .

[Axekix]

errant_knight wrote...

I guess I can see that, but it would be a balancing act, letting him object without looking like a wuss for not jumping in once he'd objected, or making it look like he doesn't think the PC is capable on his/her own. And if he feels so strongly about not having two wardens available, why do they thake all the risks that they take throughout the game. The whole thing just gets problematic.
Edit. Didn't quote,so go up 3 and 4 posts to see what I'm answering.

Well, it's interesting you mention the other risks you take in game because I find Alistair usually chimes in on those with a "is this really  a good idea?" or "I don't like the idea of helping xxxx." 

The Sten fight seems to be the exception, no?

[Lady Jess]

Axekix wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

I guess I can see that, but it would be a balancing act, letting him object without looking like a wuss for not jumping in once he'd objected, or making it look like he doesn't think the PC is capable on his/her own. And if he feels so strongly about not having two wardens available, why do they thake all the risks that they take throughout the game. The whole thing just gets problematic.
Edit. Didn't quote,so go up 3 and 4 posts to see what I'm answering.

Well, it's interesting you mention the other risks you take in game because I find Alistair usually chimes in on those with a "is this really  a good idea?" or "I don't like the idea of helping xxxx." 

The Sten fight seems to be the exception, no?

It's really between You as leader and Sten as follower needing to be shown who is in charge. I would expect everyone, including my LI to back off and let it be settled. He also doesn't step in in camp if Zev fights you.

In those other stuations you're mentioning, HE is questioning your CHOICE. You aren't choosing to have the confrontation with Sten, you are defining the leader/follower role. You're fighting for dominance. You don't see the two male bulls get into a dominance dispute, and any other member of the herd get involved so to speak.

Modifié par Lady Jess, 12 mai 2010 - 09:02 .

[cmessaz]

Back off, fine. But no opinion on the matter? He has an opinion on many other things in the game. But Sten wanting to kill the PC, he has nothing, not even a "hey let's talk about this"?

[Lady Jess]

cmessaz wrote...

Back off, fine. But no opinion on the matter? He has an opinion on many other things in the game. But Sten wanting to kill the PC, he has nothing, not even a "hey let's talk about this"?

My belated edit didn't show up yet. But, I added, when you watch nature programs, and see two animals fighting for leadership/dominance...the rest of the herd/pack doesn't get involved, or make any moves to stop it. It's pretty much the deal here. You and sten are having it out, you are fighting for  dominance.

[errant_knight]

Axekix wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

I guess I can see that, but it would be a balancing act, letting him object without looking like a wuss for not jumping in once he'd objected, or making it look like he doesn't think the PC is capable on his/her own. And if he feels so strongly about not having two wardens available, why do they thake all the risks that they take throughout the game. The whole thing just gets problematic.
Edit. Didn't quote,so go up 3 and 4 posts to see what I'm answering.

Well, it's interesting you mention the other risks you take in game because I find Alistair usually chimes in on those with a "is this really  a good idea?" or "I don't like the idea of helping xxxx." 

The Sten fight seems to be the exception, no?

Probably because it's the only fight in the game that's specifically about your ability to lead. To have Alistair chime in would be counter-productive. 

Arguing about this is a little bit like arguing about whether Alistair should have made his displeasure about the idea of killing Conner/Isolde before the deed is done. Maybe, but it's like that for the sake of gameplay, and so is this. It's a duel between you and Sten and Alistair has nothing to do with it.

 Alistair could comment that this might not be the best possible use of time, but if his comment was that offhand, people would object to that as well. If he really stuck up for the PC, many would find that weakening to the character and not how they envision the relationship. And we see here that the same problem exists if he says nothing. Basically, if your option is to offend in all ways, it's best to offend by being quiet.

[cmessaz]

Lady Jess wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Back off, fine. But no opinion on the matter? He has an opinion on many other things in the game. But Sten wanting to kill the PC, he has nothing, not even a "hey let's talk about this"?

My belated edit didn't show up yet. But, I added, when you watch nature programs, and see two animals fighting for leadership/dominance...the rest of the herd/pack doesn't get involved, or make any moves to stop it. It's pretty much the deal here. You and sten are having it out, you are fighting for  dominance.

I think we just have to agree to disagree. Your PC is in charge, but Alistair is the senior warden and should at least try and talk Sten down. I don't see why this would be a horrible thing, as long as he stays out of the fight.

[Lady Jess]

Hmm I can see my HNF rogue of the future wearing this getup. Rebel daughter, reputation be damned.

[cmessaz]

Lady Jess, I use that mod and I really like the black one. NO WEDGIES!

[Axekix]

Lady Jess wrote...

Hmm I can see my HNF rogue of the future wearing this getup. Rebel daughter, reputation be damned.

Oh?  Isn't that the Blademaster model that you Alistarians despise so much?

Edit: ......

Modifié par Axekix, 12 mai 2010 - 09:14 .