61 réponses à ce sujet

[Skilled Seeker]

Dethateer wrote...

This time that statement isn't true. Someone a few weeks ago managed to add a dialogue wheel for Zaeed.

Oh really? Link or it didn't happen. Regardless it still costs time and money for the developers to implement.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 10 avril 2010 - 06:07 .

[Revan312]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

It costs time and money that could be better spent elsewhere.

Ok, I'll bite, elsewhere as in?

This game is about characters and a story, which is why they have dialogue wheels and a plot (as shallow as that is).  Where would you rather they spend their time and money?  Shading? specular lighting? higher resolution textures?

That excuse has always kind of annoyed me simply because it's all based around preference and subjective ideas about what's important.  Some people, myself included, would much rather have dialogue wheels and voiced main character speech/animation moments rather than a new gun/new armor set so "time and money that could be better spent" imo IS on things like convorsations and indepth story progression.

[Skilled Seeker]

Ok I take it back. But so far Bioware have shown that squadmates without dialogue wheels get a lot more to say including contextual speech (thoughts on the previous mission, new squadmates that are recruited). And if I had to choose between dialogue wheel or more speech I would go for more speech.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 10 avril 2010 - 06:36 .

[Captain Iglo]

I dunno guys...for me it feels like Kasumi and Zaeed actually talk more then Garrus (when hes not romanced)...

[Skilled Seeker]

Captain Iglo wrote...

I dunno guys...for me it feels like Kasumi and Zaeed actually talk more then Garrus (when hes not romanced)...

They do and thats the point Im trying to make. Dialogue wheel does not equal more depth.

[Captain Iglo]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Captain Iglo wrote...

I dunno guys...for me it feels like Kasumi and Zaeed actually talk more then Garrus (when hes not romanced)...

They do and thats the point Im trying to make. Dialogue wheel does not equal more depth.

But maybe its the thing that we can see our beloved characters React to our answers...like if we say "that was a stupid decision Zaeed" ... the he reacts in a Zaeed typical way and we did choose the reason why he reacts that way...in the same moment we could have said  "Good way to handle the situation"....I think that makes the difference

Modifié par Captain Iglo, 10 avril 2010 - 07:00 .

[JuanSaS]

Do not spend the money on weapons or armor but more conversations with colleagues!

[Reinholder]

I personally think the fact that you can't talk to her shows that bioware are once again accurately portraying male/female social dynamics with amazing scrutiny.

[Skilled Seeker]

Reinholder wrote...

I personally think the fact that you can't talk to her shows that bioware are once again accurately portraying male/female social dynamics with amazing scrutiny.

Bioware took a heavy risk...

[Reinholder]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Reinholder wrote...

I personally think the fact that you can't talk to her shows that bioware are once again accurately portraying male/female social dynamics with amazing scrutiny.

Bioware took a heavy risk...

And yet they managed to make sci fi seem true to life. Beautiful.

[Captain Iglo]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Reinholder wrote...

I personally think the fact that you can't talk to her shows that bioware are once again accurately portraying male/female social dynamics with amazing scrutiny.

Bioware took a heavy risk...

Oh you!....must resist....its...impossible!

But the priiiiize...

[Reinholder]

MY PRECIOUS!!!!

[sonsonthebia07]

Zaeed has a TON of stories. Kasumi seems to comment more on your squad members and such. Both of them seem to have more dialogue overall than a lot of the main characters, such as Garrus. I like the wheels myself but I'm fine with it the way it is.

[Scarecrow_ES]

The issue at hand is whether or not BioWare delivered a character that feels fully fleshed-out, especially when compared to other characters. Does she feel as complete as other crewmembers? Do you care about her as you would care for other crewmembers?



Now, I haven't gotten the Kasumi pack yet, so my experience is limited to Zaeed. Whatever else you can say... Zaeed didn't feel like a full member of the crew. He's not a complete character. I think the primary reason for this feeling is that you can do everything with him that you can do with other crewmembers EXCEPT engage in dialog in any meaningful way. And when the bulk of your game experience is dependant on engaging with these characters in deep and meaningful ways (for a game), then to not be able to have that experience with additional characters only serves to highlight the LACK of that meaningful engagement.



So if someone says that not being able to TALK to Kasumi makes her feel less worthwhile as a character, I completely believe that. In fact, I'm appauled that BioWare would charge us for a character that WASN'T fully featured. With Zaeed, you can use the excuse that he's a free DLC, so BioWare gets paid nothing for putting him out there... there's plenty of excuse for not fleshing him out. But for Kasumi there would be none. What real incentive is there for a player to pay for a character which is in no way equal to the other character he gets for free?

[AntiChri5]

Her combat abiliteis, basically.

[Skilled Seeker]

Its an illusion! Adding a dialogue wheel will NOT change the amount of 'deep and meaningful' info you get out of them. On the contrary we see the opposite. Are you seriously telling me Garrus' 'Can we do this later? I'm calibrating' is more deep and meaningful than the new piece of info you get everytime you visit Zaeed?

[AntiChri5]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Its an illusion! Adding a dialogue wheel will NOT change the amount of 'deep and meaningful' info you get out of them. On the contrary we see the opposite. Are you seriously telling me Garrus' 'Can we do this later? I'm calibrating' is more deep and meaningful than the new piece of info you get everytime you visit Zaeed?

The difference is that when you DO talk to Garrus you have an actual conversation. Monolouges can only get you so far.

Tell me when you walk up to someone in real life do you have a two way conversation or do you just sit at their feet while they rant endlessly?

Quality beats quantity.

[Scarecrow_ES]

We've already established that the dialog itself is immaterial, and that the sense of connection to another character that you receive through interaction rather than observation is what brings meaning to the relationship. I now think you're being intentionally arguemenative.



Zaeed cound have ten lines of recorded speech for every one of your other crewmates', but Zaeed will always feel hollow in comparison for the manner in which that speech is delivered.

[Skilled Seeker]

Maybe for you but not for me. I find the characters more meanigful when I actually get to know more about them and their exploits rather than fancy camera angles and animations. Lets leave it at that.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 10 avril 2010 - 08:32 .

[Wuxia]

I never had a problem with the lack of dialogue wheel with Zaeed and Kasumi, I actually think they are more fleshed out characters in ME2 than, say, Jacob or Garrus.

I'm not entirely sure about Kasumi but Zaeed has a ton of interjections and comments to make while you're out in the field. One example is on the Garrus mission where Zaeed knows the mercs, who otherwise basically tell you to shut up and leave them alone.

Also people complaining about Kasumi's mission only being about an hour and a half - they do realise that they can use Kasumi for the whole game don't they? That's an awesome addition to 30 hours of gameplay.

Personally, I've been very pleased with both character DLCs.

Modifié par Banon Loire, 10 avril 2010 - 08:38 .

[The Black Ghost]

Thezezeal wrote...

My guess would be that people like the illusion of choice-- you may not get anything new/different, but it FEELS like it's new because of the Dialogue wheel, and so people like it...

Maybe if they actually DID let you have some choice, it would be different.

This is the #1 biggest flaw in this entire game. You are given alternatives, but most of the time they have little to no impact on things.


In most other Bioware games, the way you talk to your squadmates and such can actually affect how they are, and change their way of thinking as well as yours. There is a little of this in ME2, but really not much. These are static characters, they dont change. No matter what you do, Miranda is still going to love Cerberus by the end of the game, same with all the others. You have no opportunity to change their minds, or agree with them.

This is why I loved games like KOTOR, you really affect the other characters, and their development is much more dynamic, and you can shape the way their future is. Influence is what ME2 lacks.

[Skilled Seeker]

I agree with the above that would warrant a dialogue wheel. But right now there really isn't much point for it and it is only a hindrance and something superficial.

[Frumyfrenzy]

Don't get too fixated on the wheel, it is about everything that comes with it:

Shepard talks (!), facial expressions, gestures, camera angles. I wouldn't care about a wheel if those four things weren't attached. It is not primarily about having a choice to ask somehting or to respond by using the wheel, it's those other four things.

[Lorx7]

im just mad that i cant bang her

[eternalnightmare13]

I totally disagree with the OP.  For 7 dollars I get a new character that is valuable in combat both in her own mission and defintely in the other missions of ME2, has her own interesting history that I learn about during her mission, makes interesting comments about other squad mates, has her own comments at various locations during missions, includes a new powerful smg, adds a unique and useful loyalty power, the whole greybox thing suggest some intriquing storyline elements involving the Alliance/Council in the future potentially, adds new casual attire, is a very fun and interesting loyalty mission. Plus, it includes a bar on the Normandy.   Money well spent IMO.

Kasumi has plenty of dialogue in and out of missions.  The lack of dialogue wheel is so very minor IMO.

Modifié par eternalnightmare13, 11 avril 2010 - 12:44 .