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Low blow, Liara!

Débuté par ThisIsMadness91 , avril 10 2010 06:56

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#76
jlb524
Posté 10 avril 2010 - 08:04

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JohnnyDollar wrote...

I can see how Liara fans would be frustrated with this not really being touched upon in the game.  I somtimes think that the SB is an organic that has been indoctrinated by a Reaper for an indefinite amount of years.


I have a feeling that the SB is linked to the Reapers, indoctrinated perhaps, just like Saren.  In hindsight, we might see that the comics are hinting at that and can appreciate them for that.  Right now, I don't know what the heck is going on :blink:

I hope they do touch upon this in ME3 or DLC/expansion pack.

#77
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 10 avril 2010 - 08:05

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Collider wrote...

There are files on the disk that people have said implies DLC where Liara confronts the Shadow Broker (and I also read that she becomes the Shadow Broker...?).


To be honest, that's just people misconstruing what Liara says in these scrapped lines. It seems that the original intention is that Shepard and Liara would go off together and take out the Shadow Broker, and Liara would acquire the data and information that he was in possession of. She'd then temporarily continue in her role as an info broker for the duration of the Collector mission in order to discover any information about the Collectors that would help Shepard in the coming battles. That was their original reason why Liara couldn't join, she was helping out Shepard in her own way.

Of course, these lines have been scrapped completely for a reason. Tne original reasoning was awful. Why wouldn't Liara join the Normandy to read this data with the help of a powerful AI? Why would she continue on as an information broker, a job she clearly hates, when she expresses a desire to go with Shepard in-game? There's a reason these lines were scrapped. They were awful.

#78
AntiChri5
Posté 10 avril 2010 - 08:10

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ThisIsMadness91 wrote...

I'm gone for an hour and I come back to all of thisPosted Image!

The Redemption series (which seems to be the focus of this topic now, despite me having seen almost no discussion relating to it elsewherePosted Image) basically gives you the specifics on how Liara got Shepard's body back. Apart from sacrificing himself for the mission, though, it hardly seems like Feron is friend material to Liara in the series.

As for what she did for Shepard, I'm not saying I'm not grateful for that. I'm saying that Liara's complete change in character was devastating for me. Maybe BioWare's getting us ready for a heartwarming reunion in ME3. Maybe they took the "dark second act" too far. I guess time will tell.


The real reason.....they were making sure that we all have an ME 2 LI.

Just wait for ME 3 when Kaidan/Ashley or Liara get all cranky and hates us for "cheating"

#79
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 10 avril 2010 - 08:10

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You've also got to say that an indoctrinated Shadow Broker would be an extremely useful tool to the Reapers in the coming invasion. With the Reapers now unable to enter the galaxy through the Citadel relay, they can't instantaneously acquire every piece of information about galactic civilization as they have done with every harvest. With the Shadow Broker, they can essentially acquire a blueprint of the galaxy. Species, colonies, governments, militaries, ecomonics, the Shadow Broker could inform them of anything.



Liara's an intelligent woman, if she knows that the Shadow Broker is in deep with the Reapers, then she's probably figured this out. He's a menace and threat to the galaxy that needs to be stopped.

#80
Guest_justinnstuff_*
Posté 10 avril 2010 - 08:11

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AntiChri5 wrote...

ThisIsMadness91 wrote...

I'm gone for an hour and I come back to all of thisPosted Image!

The Redemption series (which seems to be the focus of this topic now, despite me having seen almost no discussion relating to it elsewherePosted Image) basically gives you the specifics on how Liara got Shepard's body back. Apart from sacrificing himself for the mission, though, it hardly seems like Feron is friend material to Liara in the series.

As for what she did for Shepard, I'm not saying I'm not grateful for that. I'm saying that Liara's complete change in character was devastating for me. Maybe BioWare's getting us ready for a heartwarming reunion in ME3. Maybe they took the "dark second act" too far. I guess time will tell.


The real reason.....they were making sure that we all have an ME 2 LI.

Just wait for ME 3 when Kaidan/Ashley or Liara get all cranky and hates us for "cheating"


For most people yes, but I'll get a nice reunion instead. :P

#81
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 10 avril 2010 - 08:11

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jlb524 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...
I can see how Liara fans would be frustrated with this not really being touched upon in the game.  I somtimes think that the SB is an organic that has been indoctrinated by a Reaper for an indefinite amount of years.

I have a feeling that the SB is linked to the Reapers, indoctrinated perhaps, just like Saren.  In hindsight, we might see that the comics are hinting at that and can appreciate them for that.  Right now, I don't know what the heck is going on :blink:

I hope they do touch upon this in ME3 or DLC/expansion pack.

It seems to make sense that this could be the case with the SB to me.  Reapers using the SB for and indefinite amount of years to manipulate organic races and gather intel on them.

I would also like to see this touched upon on an DLC/expansion myself.  Maybe not reavealing the SB identity specifically, but as you said touched upon.  I am sure there could be an expansion that delves into this without hurting the ME3 story IMO. 

#82
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Posté 10 avril 2010 - 08:13

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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

You've also got to say that an indoctrinated Shadow Broker would be an extremely useful tool to the Reapers in the coming invasion. With the Reapers now unable to enter the galaxy through the Citadel relay, they can't instantaneously acquire every piece of information about galactic civilization as they have done with every harvest. With the Shadow Broker, they can essentially acquire a blueprint of the galaxy. Species, colonies, governments, militaries, ecomonics, the Shadow Broker could inform them of anything.

Liara's an intelligent woman, if she knows that the Shadow Broker is in deep with the Reapers, then she's probably figured this out. He's a menace and threat to the galaxy that needs to be stopped.


I think you guys are onto something. What if the "shadow broker" as explained by Anderson in ME1 somehow never tips galactic instability, is another reaper tool to cause organic life to evolve as they want us to. Just like how the mass relays are built to do that same thing as described by Vigil.

#83
ThisIsMadness91
Posté 10 avril 2010 - 08:15

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AntiChri5 wrote...

The real reason.....they were making sure that we all have an ME 2 LI.

Just wait for ME 3 when Kaidan/Ashley or Liara get all cranky and hates us for "cheating"


That's why I've got three ManSheps to import to ME2 - single, with Ash, and with Liara. My single Shep will romance Tali in ME2, and my others will remain faithful.

#84
sonsonthebia07
Posté 10 avril 2010 - 08:17

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AntiChri5 wrote...

ThisIsMadness91 wrote...

I'm gone for an hour and I come back to all of thisPosted Image!

The Redemption series (which seems to be the focus of this topic now, despite me having seen almost no discussion relating to it elsewherePosted Image) basically gives you the specifics on how Liara got Shepard's body back. Apart from sacrificing himself for the mission, though, it hardly seems like Feron is friend material to Liara in the series.

As for what she did for Shepard, I'm not saying I'm not grateful for that. I'm saying that Liara's complete change in character was devastating for me. Maybe BioWare's getting us ready for a heartwarming reunion in ME3. Maybe they took the "dark second act" too far. I guess time will tell.


The real reason.....they were making sure that we all have an ME 2 LI.

Just wait for ME 3 when Kaidan/Ashley or Liara get all cranky and hates us for "cheating"


I would say it is more likely now that she will slap your ass with a singularity if she finds out, after the way she handles Nyxseris (or however that is spelled).

I'm actually glad in the change of Liara's character, although it really should have been done more...subtle. She seems far too much like a child in the first game for some reason - I know she is barely an adult by Asari standards, but she is still over 100 years old. She is my "canon" Shepard's LI, not because I necessarily like her, but I just felt that the two have had a real connection since the first game. I admit it was somewhat forced though.

#85
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 10 avril 2010 - 08:17

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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

You've also got to say that an indoctrinated Shadow Broker would be an extremely useful tool to the Reapers in the coming invasion. With the Reapers now unable to enter the galaxy through the Citadel relay, they can't instantaneously acquire every piece of information about galactic civilization as they have done with every harvest. With the Shadow Broker, they can essentially acquire a blueprint of the galaxy. Species, colonies, governments, militaries, ecomonics, the Shadow Broker could inform them of anything.

Liara's an intelligent woman, if she knows that the Shadow Broker is in deep with the Reapers, then she's probably figured this out. He's a menace and threat to the galaxy that needs to be stopped.

Yes, this makes sense to me.  If you read about Sovereign for example then you see a pattern of deceit, indoctrination, and manipulation of oganics to the Reapers purposes.  Concerning it's discovery and the events leading up to the Citadel attack.

http://masseffect.wi.../wiki/Sovereign

http://masseffect.wi...ki/Edan_Had'dah

http://masseffect.wi...ki/Dr._Shu_Qian

Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 10 avril 2010 - 08:20 .

#86
AntiChri5
Posté 10 avril 2010 - 08:19

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Two who remain faithful?



Noooooo, romance jack with one of them. Crazy Biotic chicks are fun.

#87
jlb524
Posté 10 avril 2010 - 08:24

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AntiChri5 wrote...


The real reason.....they were making sure that we all have an ME 2 LI.

Just wait for ME 3 when Kaidan/Ashley or Liara get all cranky and hates us for "cheating"


LOL!  Yes...the Liara/Jacob showdown is going to be epic win!!

'Your girlfriend's my priiiiize now.'

Liara:

Posted Image

#88
Onyx Jaguar
Posté 10 avril 2010 - 08:25

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jlb524 wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...


The real reason.....they were making sure that we all have an ME 2 LI.

Just wait for ME 3 when Kaidan/Ashley or Liara get all cranky and hates us for "cheating"


LOL!  Yes...the Liara/Jacob showdown is going to be epic win!!

'Your girlfriend's my priiiiize now.'

Liara:

Posted Image


I have reports that she may be working with the Shadow Broker.  If true she cannot be trusted.

#89
TMA LIVE
Posté 10 avril 2010 - 08:28

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yfhfrg wrote...

Yeah. As annoying as Horizon may have been, I think Liara fans got the shortest end of the stick.


Yeah, I agree. At least with Ash/Kaidan, they were just mad at you for working for Cerberus, and send you a nice email saying they're sorry. With Liara, you can visit her at any time, and she treats you as if you're just someone to use for business reasons...

I'm now playing my 5th playthrough, and the more I see her, the more I... I don't know. It's sad, but she's not the same person, and the relationship feels dead.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 10 avril 2010 - 08:46 .

#90
sonsonthebia07
Posté 10 avril 2010 - 08:29

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Well it isn't like I stayed faithful on every playthrough. =P



I'm looking forward to highly amusing cat fights myself.

#91
Hyper Cutter
Posté 10 avril 2010 - 11:21

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JohnnyDollar wrote...

I think most of the players initially walked away from their encounters with the ME1 characters with a little bit of a sour taste in their mouths.  Weak or intentional by Bioware?  I would think intentional, but that is just speculation on my part.

They were pretty blatantly pushing you towards the new LIs.

#92
JamieCOTC
Posté 10 avril 2010 - 11:50

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JohnnyDollar wrote...

Collider wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Collider wrote...
The comics bridge ME1 to ME2. Liara alludes to the fact that she helped secure Shepard's body as well as the Feron guy.

Ok I see, so whatever is told in the comics can be interpreted as happening in the video game ME story, but just was not revealed while playing the game?  So they have to maintain continuity between the two then?

The comics are the canon story, so yes, they did happen in the video game ME universe. The impression I've gotten from posters in this thread is that there is little in the comics that was not told by the characters in ME2.

Doesn't sound like anything juicy then in the comics.  Maybe just another revenue stream from loyal ME fans?


The biggest reveal is that Liara set out to find Shepard's body to find closure and "Let her/him go."  Perhaps the offer from Cerberus was too tempting to pass up.  It's never stated that way in the comic, but you can read that it into it if you wish, thus making Liara's statement of "I couldn't let you go" an accurate one ... if look at from a certain point of view. 

#93
Homey C-Dawg
Posté 11 avril 2010 - 12:35

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JamieCOTC wrote...

The biggest reveal is that Liara set out to find Shepard's body to find closure and "Let her/him go."  Perhaps the offer from Cerberus was too tempting to pass up.  It's never stated that way in the comic, but you can read that it into it if you wish, thus making Liara's statement of "I couldn't let you go" an accurate one ... if look at from a certain point of view. 

Oh snap you gave it the Obi'wan treatment. :lol:

I like the idea of an indoctrinated shadow broken best.
As far Liara... well... I'll reserve judgement till ME3.

I must say though I love how she tells you all this sensitive business/scandal information verbally, then if you question why she won't just chat with you she says something like "Don't you think I want to? This is Illium, everything we say is probably being recorded."
Really Liara? After just asking me to hack corporate servers, you don't want them to hear us talk about old times on the Normandy?

#94
ThisIsMadness91
Posté 11 avril 2010 - 09:16

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Hyper Cutter wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

I think most of the players initially walked away from their encounters with the ME1 characters with a little bit of a sour taste in their mouths.  Weak or intentional by Bioware?  I would think intentional, but that is just speculation on my part.

They were pretty blatantly pushing you towards the new LIs.


That was definitely the impression I got, especially since there's virtually no "just friends" dialogue, and I inadvertantly started the romance subplot with Jack on my first playthrough. The only LI for ManSheps that I like in ME2 is Tali.

#95
Hyper Cutter
Posté 11 avril 2010 - 09:35

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TMA LIVE wrote...
Yeah, I agree. At least with Ash/Kaidan, they were just mad at you for working for Cerberus, and send you a nice email saying they're sorry. With Liara, you can visit her at any time, and she treats you as if you're just someone to use for business reasons...

And Ashley at least says she loved you (I assume Kaidan does as well)...
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