358 réponses à ce sujet

[JeanLuc761]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Maybe I shouldn't.

You really shouldn't.  Some are capable of making you die a little inside 

[kglaser]

OK, the fat naked Liara one made me crack up.

The Garrus ones made me want to hurl.

(not all the Garrus art--a lot of it is actually quite tasteful and artistic...but these, gah...the goggles do nothing...my eyes!!)

[thatguy212]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...


She is a doomed character in my game... no matter how much you Talimancers post... she isn't going to be in my ME3.

Good for you, that's your choice and you should be able to play the game as you see fit.  Now stop flame-baiting <_<

Honestly, I wonder how many people kill off Tali just to shove it in the faces of Talimancers.  

how did you guess how my current run of mass effect 2 is going to end?

Don't forget to get the migrant fleet to break up and become fractured so that the Geth can destroy it.

Yep, let's doom an entire race just to throw it in the face of those blasted Talimancers!

Honestly, this mentality some of you have gets more and more absurd by the day 

Video Games = Serious Business, its not like you are dooming real people, and besides i've seen alot of talimancers that want to kill all the geth, and they want do it to just to please tali, at least my reasons for wanting to wipe out a fictional race has to do with real people and not fictional ones

[JeanLuc761]

thatguy212 wrote...
Video Games = Serious Business, its not like you are dooming real people, and besides i've seen alot of talimancers that want to kill all the geth, and they want do it to just to please tali, at least my reasons for wanting to wipe out a fictional race has to do with real people and not fictional ones

I look at it differently.  In fact, let's look at this objectively:
By wiping out the quarian race, you're destroying the largest fleet in the galaxy and an incredibly important asset in the fight against the reapers.  You're also pissing off a squadmate and a destroying a friendship.  Your reason for doing this is because some Tali fans take their adoration too far.

You see how silly that sounds?

[kglaser]

To be fair, all of it's silly. Garrus doesn't exist (sob). Charon is a satellite. FTL is impossible. So let's not let such vitriolic arguments get in the way of the awesomeness that is the Mass Effect universe.

[NICKjnp]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...
Video Games = Serious Business, its not like you are dooming real people, and besides i've seen alot of talimancers that want to kill all the geth, and they want do it to just to please tali, at least my reasons for wanting to wipe out a fictional race has to do with real people and not fictional ones

I look at it differently.  In fact, let's look at this objectively:
By wiping out the quarian race, you're destroying the largest fleet in the galaxy and an incredibly important asset in the fight against the reapers.  You're also pissing off a squadmate and a destroying a friendship.  Your reason for doing this is because some Tali fans take their adoration too far.

You see how silly that sounds?

Yeah... a bunch of aging ships that would only be good as fodder.

Modifié par NICKjnp, 12 avril 2010 - 05:28 .

[JeanLuc761]

NICKjnp wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...
Video Games = Serious Business, its not like you are dooming real people, and besides i've seen alot of talimancers that want to kill all the geth, and they want do it to just to please tali, at least my reasons for wanting to wipe out a fictional race has to do with real people and not fictional ones

I look at it differently.  In fact, let's look at this objectively:
By wiping out the quarian race, you're destroying the largest fleet in the galaxy and an incredibly important asset in the fight against the reapers.  You're also pissing off a squadmate and a destroying a friendship.  Your reason for doing this is because some Tali fans take their adoration too far.

You see how silly that sounds?

Yeah... a bunch of aging ships that would only be good as fodder.

Regardless of whether or not the ships are fodder or not, you're still letting your actions be influenced (foolishly, I might add) by a minority of people on an internet forum.

[NICKjnp]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...
Video Games = Serious Business, its not like you are dooming real people, and besides i've seen alot of talimancers that want to kill all the geth, and they want do it to just to please tali, at least my reasons for wanting to wipe out a fictional race has to do with real people and not fictional ones

I look at it differently.  In fact, let's look at this objectively:
By wiping out the quarian race, you're destroying the largest fleet in the galaxy and an incredibly important asset in the fight against the reapers.  You're also pissing off a squadmate and a destroying a friendship.  Your reason for doing this is because some Tali fans take their adoration too far.

You see how silly that sounds?

Yeah... a bunch of aging ships that would only be good as fodder.

Regardless of whether or not the ships are fodder or not, you're still letting your actions be influenced (foolishly, I might add) by a minority of people on an internet forum.

bye bye Quarian fleet

[JeanLuc761]

NICKjnp wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...
Video Games = Serious Business, its not like you are dooming real people, and besides i've seen alot of talimancers that want to kill all the geth, and they want do it to just to please tali, at least my reasons for wanting to wipe out a fictional race has to do with real people and not fictional ones

I look at it differently.  In fact, let's look at this objectively:
By wiping out the quarian race, you're destroying the largest fleet in the galaxy and an incredibly important asset in the fight against the reapers.  You're also pissing off a squadmate and a destroying a friendship.  Your reason for doing this is because some Tali fans take their adoration too far.

You see how silly that sounds?

Yeah... a bunch of aging ships that would only be good as fodder.

Regardless of whether or not the ships are fodder or not, you're still letting your actions be influenced (foolishly, I might add) by a minority of people on an internet forum.

bye bye Quarian fleet

*shrugs*  Whatever.  

[thatguy212]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...
Video Games = Serious Business, its not like you are dooming real people, and besides i've seen alot of talimancers that want to kill all the geth, and they want do it to just to please tali, at least my reasons for wanting to wipe out a fictional race has to do with real people and not fictional ones

I look at it differently.  In fact, let's look at this objectively:
By wiping out the quarian race, you're destroying the largest fleet in the galaxy and an incredibly important asset in the fight against the reapers.  You're also pissing off a squadmate and a destroying a friendship.  Your reason for doing this is because some Tali fans take their adoration too far.

You see how silly that sounds?

Yeah... a bunch of aging ships that would only be good as fodder.

Regardless of whether or not the ships are fodder or not, you're still letting your actions be influenced (foolishly, I might add) by a minority of people on an internet forum.

so its would be wrong for me to kill the entire race but it would be ok to let them die a much more horrible death by letting the reapers kill their ancient fleet? and besides i've always disliked the quarians, you know with their idea that since the geth a sentient lifeform using them as unpaid laborers would mean that they are slaves, so lets kill them all instead because slavery is wrong but genocide is a-ok, it was just the talimancers that sorta pushed me over to the view that they should die

[JeanLuc761]

thatguy212 wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...
Video Games = Serious Business, its not like you are dooming real people, and besides i've seen alot of talimancers that want to kill all the geth, and they want do it to just to please tali, at least my reasons for wanting to wipe out a fictional race has to do with real people and not fictional ones

I look at it differently.  In fact, let's look at this objectively:
By wiping out the quarian race, you're destroying the largest fleet in the galaxy and an incredibly important asset in the fight against the reapers.  You're also pissing off a squadmate and a destroying a friendship.  Your reason for doing this is because some Tali fans take their adoration too far.

You see how silly that sounds?

Yeah... a bunch of aging ships that would only be good as fodder.

Regardless of whether or not the ships are fodder or not, you're still letting your actions be influenced (foolishly, I might add) by a minority of people on an internet forum.

so its would be wrong for me to kill the entire race but it would be ok to let them die a much more horrible death by letting the reapers kill their ancient fleet? and besides i've always disliked the quarians, you know with their idea that since the geth a sentient lifeform using them as unpaid laborers would mean that they are slaves, so lets kill them all instead because slavery is wrong but genocide is a-ok, it was just the talimancers that sorta pushed me over to the view that they should die

Hey, you can do what you want.  All I'm saying is that it's foolish (and fairly immature) to allow your opinions to be influenced so much by a couple people on a forum.  That's all.

[thatguy212]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...
Video Games = Serious Business, its not like you are dooming real people, and besides i've seen alot of talimancers that want to kill all the geth, and they want do it to just to please tali, at least my reasons for wanting to wipe out a fictional race has to do with real people and not fictional ones

I look at it differently.  In fact, let's look at this objectively:
By wiping out the quarian race, you're destroying the largest fleet in the galaxy and an incredibly important asset in the fight against the reapers.  You're also pissing off a squadmate and a destroying a friendship.  Your reason for doing this is because some Tali fans take their adoration too far.

You see how silly that sounds?

Yeah... a bunch of aging ships that would only be good as fodder.

Regardless of whether or not the ships are fodder or not, you're still letting your actions be influenced (foolishly, I might add) by a minority of people on an internet forum.

so its would be wrong for me to kill the entire race but it would be ok to let them die a much more horrible death by letting the reapers kill their ancient fleet? and besides i've always disliked the quarians, you know with their idea that since the geth a sentient lifeform using them as unpaid laborers would mean that they are slaves, so lets kill them all instead because slavery is wrong but genocide is a-ok, it was just the talimancers that sorta pushed me over to the view that they should die

Hey, you can do what you want.  All I'm saying is that it's foolish (and fairly immature) to allow your opinions to be influenced so much by a couple people on a forum.  That's all.

you're right, i'll start by not being influenced by your opinion

[Breakdown Boy]

I think the real problem will come when Tali descovers her motherly instincts and wants a baby, what then? And all the issues they will face? I don't think their relationship is really that deep.



Now without causing WW3 I will state, that in my opinion Tali and Shepard might become lovers but will eventually split up.

[JeanLuc761]

thatguy212 wrote...

you're right, i'll start by not being influenced by your opinion

There is no facepalm big enough.....

[thatguy212]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

you're right, i'll start by not being influenced by your opinion

There is no facepalm big enough.....

somebody can't take a joke or doesn't get the reference

[JeanLuc761]

thatguy212 wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

you're right, i'll start by not being influenced by your opinion

There is no facepalm big enough.....

somebody can't take a joke or doesn't get the reference

It's 2AM and I'm irritable due to another thread, sorry 

[thatguy212]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

you're right, i'll start by not being influenced by your opinion

There is no facepalm big enough.....

somebody can't take a joke or doesn't get the reference

It's 2AM and I'm irritable due to another thread, sorry 

its okay, i find that i rarely get to use that line so when i get the chance i go for it, i was going to make the same choice regardless of what people on the forums say, one because i like seeing how different things will play out in mass effect 2 and two because i just dislike the quarians, but seeing as how some tali fans over react at things like that i thought i might as well say thats why i was doing it

[HeavyDutyPillow]

Bleh sorry, repost....

Modifié par HeavyDutyPillow, 12 avril 2010 - 06:05 .

[HeavyDutyPillow]

[quote]Collider wrote...

[quote]HeavyDutyPillow wrote...
I believe it's happy-endy because it is what the fans expect it and want it to be, rather than what it ought to be.[/quote]
[quote]Ought to be? Why is it ought to be? We are never given an indication that most interspecies Quarian relationships end with death or even serious sickness. All we know is that there is a possibility. Technically, there is a possibility femShep can get injured in Garrus' romance, does that mean she ought to be injured? Any squad mate can possibly die, yet you wouldn't say the same for them.[/quote]

I'm saying it's ought to be because it's exactly what you don't want happening. If you really want her to live happily ever after with your Shepard, it's because of that that you would hate seeing her die; because you loved her. You chose to prove your love to her through a moment of passion that had the chance of killing her. I find that if she does survive, then that initial barrier of her possibly getting severely sick, or even dying, to be useless, pointless, and the entire idea of a Quarian having no immune system to be irrelevant since any moment of passion for her would end up with simply a cold. You can't have your cake and eat it too, and I would think that if you can, it must be a very bland cake.

[quote]No one ever wants to be in a bad situation like having your loved one die, but when you take a risk like Shepard had done, especially when you know what the consequences will be, it's the most likely outcome that may happen, and last time I checked Mass Effect was about your choices and the resulting consequences after. [/quote]
[quote]Like I said, we are never given the likelihood of it ending in death. It's even less likely considering how they are in a sterile environment and see takes immunity boosters. If you take what Tali says about it and divide the possibilities she says, she's more likely to just end up sick and not die. Shepard and Tali did take a risk - and Tali got a cold as a result of it, it's not all sunshine and butterflies. I hardly think that the worst possibility should be the one that occurs.[/quote]

Like I said, that cold could theoretically get worse. I've had plenty of colds in my life, and several ended up becoming bronchitis, and eventually pneumonia, where other cases just ended up lasting for two or three days, getting cured through Tylenol and some bed rest. To further this, being in a sterile environment, as well as having her immuno-boosters or whatever she took prior to making love to Shepard has said to have given her an increased chance in protecting herself from outside threats, but no where does it describe by how much it will protect her. Your optimism towards Tali's survival clouds the dangers that can and probably will happen. In short, if you believe in Murphy's law, then there might be a chance she'll die.

[quote]Whether we toughen up to those consequences and take responsibility for our actions is dependent on what kind of person you are or what kind of Shepard you think you are. Like I said, I don't know if Tali may die or not, as I am not Bioware, but I would think that Bioware would be too focused pandering towards the wants of the fans rather than the actual storytelling if she were to survive and "live happily ever after" in the way many fans would like to see it. I would find it very cliche and I would be very much disappointed that Bioware would go for such a cookie cutter romantic plotline. I don't want a $60 interactive fan-fic, I want an interactive novel.
[/quote]

[quote]If you don't want cliche, you should be arguing that all romances end badly, because they all have the potential to. Too focused on pandering to the fans? Do you realize the entire game is pandering to the fans? Gameplay was enormously revamped because of the fans. The fans make the money for Bioware. They love listening to te fans, and it's also a good business decision. It's perfectly possible to factor in what the fans want and have the writing have the same integrity. Generally speaking, being critiqued - ie listening to the audience and the readers of your writing - leads to better writing. That is a noble quest, is it not? Many writers write because of their fans, because their material will be read and critiqued. It's very enjoyable when you write something and you get praise. You are assuming that Bioware would only have Tali survive because the fans want it, and not because the writers would as well. The writers put pride into their writing.[/quote]

No, if I do not want cliche, then I should be arguing that all romances should be different and unexpected. No where have I said that it had to end in a depressing manner. And honestly, the only reason why a fan would think it leads to better writing is because it's going to end up exactly the way the fan wants it to be like, therefore not offending the fan. In the same vein, you'll never find a Twilight fan that thinks Stephanie Meyer's writing is atrocious, and yet plenty of others say otherwise.
SPOILER ALERT FOR DARK TOWER SERIES: In Stephen King's The Dark Tower, Roland at the end finally defeats the Crimson King and goes off to climb the Tower. He climbs up and sees that he has climbed the Dark Tower several times before, and at the end, he gets transported back in time with no memory of what just happened, looking exactly as he did at book one with all his fingers attached, basically ending as a loop.[/color]
That is not how I intended it to end, and in fact I was kind of angry that through all that I've read about the story, how much I've experienced and tried to relate to the characters, that it would end up like it did. But then I realized that that anger I had is exactly the thing that made the ending special and I understood why it had to end like that, and it showed that I had a real emotional connection to the characters in the story. If Stephen King were to have listened to my suggestion in the same way plenty of people here want Tali to survive in ME3, The Dark Tower would have ended up as a simple Hero Saves The Day/Universe/Dimension story, making for a bland ending. Furthermore, you never write for your fans. That detracts from the story that you want to tell. If you lose or gain fans because of the events that unfold in your story, that is their problem, not yours. This is similar to those "Don't Do Drugs - Peer Pressure" commercials where you have one kid getting pushed around by the whims of others, not letting him be himself. You're a writer because you like to write; it's your passion. Writing stories simply to make money or to pander to the fans, I find, makes you a sell out because it's not the story you wanted to write. If Tali lives or dies in the game, it is because Bioware wants it to be so, like you say later, but never should it be because we fans want her to.

[quote]There is ample opportunity to make the relationship have ups and downs without it ending in death. Death in romances is nothing extraordinary, it is also cliche. Romeo and Juliet? Cyrano? Titanic? Aribeth? It's nothing new. Overcoming the physical problems of the relationships can make for very good writing, we don't need to default to death simply because it's the worst possible outcome.[/quote]

Yes, the idea of death in general has been done before. If you look further, practically everything has been done before. It's how you tackle it that makes it different from the rest of the stories out there. Although I can agree that some fan suggestions can be good, such as the gameplay as you've mentioned, ultimately this is Bioware's story, Shepard's story, and I do not trust other fans to basically write it for them/him. The fans already have the job to choose what he does in specific situations in the game; I don't want those fans to change what those situations are simply because they don't like it. Furthermore, I find that your optimism over Tali's survival within the game panders to your personal bias towards her as a love interest rather than as a stand alone character in her own right simply because you may not like the outcome it may have, and this isn't fair to the writers at Bioware. And this isn't just a problem with Mass Effect; This is a problem with any game that allows you to have big choices in what you do, since it detracts (in a linear way) from the story the developers would like to tell. Honestly, I wouldn't mind that it just ends up having Shepard and Tali deal with their physicals problems, but I will take offense that those problems become watered down or candy coated simply because the fans think otherwise, and the only reason why I even mentioned her death was because I thought it would be the next logical situation given the many uncertainties within their relationship.

All in all, I would like to finish with what I said previously: This is in Bioware's hands to control, and I just hope they take extra care into the writing of this plot, let alone all the other romantic plots. My speculation and expectations, or anyone else's for that matter, holds little weight in what will actually happen.

Modifié par HeavyDutyPillow, 12 avril 2010 - 06:07 .

[Tooneyman]

I wasn't involved but no her romance is not doom. HA!

[kglaser]

Isn't Tali fairly young? Like 19 or something?

(Flame the question as you see fit...I don't hang out in Tali threads much.)

[thatguy212]

kglaser wrote...

Isn't Tali fairly young? Like 19 or something?
(Flame the question as you see fit...I don't hang out in Tali threads much.)

i think she's like 21 or something but she has the mind set of a 16 year old

[Onyx Jaguar]

24

[kglaser]

OK...so the wanting a child thing is valid. But how long do quarians live anyway?

[thatguy212]

kglaser wrote...

OK...so the wanting a child thing is valid. But how long do quarians live anyway?

i don't think they've said what the lifespan is yet