358 réponses à ce sujet

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

Btw, since someone went ahead already started a children topic, let's move all discussion there so this can get back on topic.

[Ghostano]

All the romances are doomed we all are going to die the repears are comeing. They are going to kill us all "/flails arms wildly about" runs out of the thread, " We all are going to DIE!!!!!

[thatguy212]

I wonder whats Quarian society's take on inter-species relationships? Its seems like it is at least uncommon enough that tali had to do research so she probably hadn't seen it on the migrant fleet before or at least not with a human anyway

[Collider]

thatguy212 wrote...

I wonder whats Quarian society's take on inter-species relationships? Its seems like it is at least uncommon enough that tali had to do research so she probably hadn't seen it on the migrant fleet before or at least not with a human anyway

Tali says it's not that uncommon. She had never before even thought that Shepard would like her, I can see why she had never done research prior.

[ShadyKat]

Collider wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

I wonder whats Quarian society's take on inter-species relationships? Its seems like it is at least uncommon enough that tali had to do research so she probably hadn't seen it on the migrant fleet before or at least not with a human anyway

Tali says it's not that uncommon. She had never before even thought that Shepard would like her, I can see why she had never done research prior.

Well there was the Qurian on Illium that was dating a human. So I take it that it does happen more than people think.

[Hyper Cutter]

Shandepared wrote...

No, the child shares none of your DNA. The asari use the meld with you to randomize their OWN DNA. If you ditched your asari girlfriend after she got pregnant she could never come after you for child support because the child is not yours.

I don't know about that, I'd assume asari law recognizes the other partner as legal "father" of the child, with all the responsibility that implies.

[binaryemperor]

The quarians have only been on the flotilla for like 300 years. I don't see how they ended up getting so immuno****ed. In fact, I'd imagine packing several million quarians in a bunch of ships would make their immune systems tougher, since they probably lived piled on top of each other for the first hundred. Even with air scrubbers and purifiers it seems there would be a large factor of disease transmission, unless they ALWAYS wore those damn suits.

[Collider]

binaryemperor wrote...

The quarians have only been on the flotilla for like 300 years. I don't see how they ended up getting so immuno****ed. In fact, I'd imagine packing several million quarians in a bunch of ships would make their immune systems tougher, since they probably lived piled on top of each other for the first hundred. Even with air scrubbers and purifiers it seems there would be a large factor of disease transmission, unless they ALWAYS wore those damn suits.

They are always wearing those suits. There are clean rooms in every ship for things that require privacy. As for disease, it won't spread because this is not the middle ages where everyone was unprotected and knew nothing about diseases. So long as they stay in their suits and their suits are never damaged, they'll be okay.

[Jax Sparrow]

runescapeguy9 wrote... Can I ask where this came from?

I believe the quote goes something like this: "Why wouldn't a young woman find a dashing commander when he saves her life twice while he saves the galaxy?" I am probably slightly off on the syntax but I was left with the clear impression that was where her interest started from. Though maybe that is just in my unique "experience" of the game. *shrugs*  The O.P. asked for anyone's opinion on if the relationship is doomed; and I say yes it is doomed.  Obviously, there are those who choose to disagree with me for whatever reason.

InvaderErl wrote... Isn't that a bit narrow minded. Children do not = success/love.

I disagree with the premise of your statement. If you wish to choose to think I am being narrowminded for thinking the lack of reproduction is a significant hindrance to any relationship, then I am ok with that. Just like I am ok with Collider choosing to think I am misrepresenting Tali. I choose to believe Tali says what she means, and if a Talimancer chooses to think otherwise? that is their choice.

[Collider]

Jax Sparrow wrote...

I believe the quote goes something like this: "Why wouldn't a young woman find a dashing commander when he saves her life twice while he saves the galaxy?" I am probably slightly off on the syntax but I was left with the clear impression that was where her interest started from. Though maybe that is just in my unique "experience" of the game. *shrugs*  The O.P. asked for anyone's opinion on if the relationship is doomed; and I say yes it is doomed. Obviously, there are those who choose to disagree with me for whatever reason.

If you actually play the romance, you would know that the relationship is based upon trust, not hero worship. Shepard is her best friend, Shepard has been there for her and she can rely on him and trust him. She only mentions the "hero" bit once. If you think that means the romance is hero worship, then do you think that if a woman calls a man handsome, that's all she cares about? You shouldn't. She's essentially saying that he's dashing, but that doesn't mean that's all she likes about him, you would know that if you play the romance and pay attention, I would think.

[thatguy212]

The tali/shepard relationship isn't really a hero worship, its more like a student having a crush on the teacher

[Jax Sparrow]

Collider wrote...  If you actually play the romance, you would know that the relationship is based upon trust, not hero worship. Shepard is her best friend, Shepard has been there for her and she can rely on him and trust him. She only mentions the "hero" bit once. If you think that means the romance is hero worship, then do you think that if a woman calls a man handsome, that's all she cares about? You shouldn't. She's essentially saying that he's dashing, but that doesn't mean that's all she likes about him, you would know that if you play the romance and pay attention, I would think.

*laugh*
So because I disagree with you I 'obviously have not romanced Tali'Zorah vas Normandy?'  I am unsure if you will believe me but yes I have romanced her and I actually do like the character.  However, Tali'Zorah vas Normandy has yet to actually display anything beyond infatuated hero worship to me.  She continually fails to display any knowledge of Shepard's personal/private history.  I think there are only two decisions that she actually has an opinion on in both Mass Effect games.  That is hardly a loving relationship...

If you see it differently? awesome, kewl for you.

Shandepared wrote...  I think you're being a little too hard on her. She likes who Shepard is and wants to be closer. You have to start somewhere, right?

I otherwise agree though. If Tali or Shepard ever want to raise a child of their own they'll need to find someone else. Tali especailly as an important quarian will probably be expected to settle down with a nice quarian guy and have a child. I imagine quarians are fairly xenophobic as a people.  They might think it's fine to fool around with an alien on your pilgrimage, but once you grow up and rejoin the fleet you arent' supposed to bring your human home with you. 

There are many ways to start a relationship yes.  My point is that Hero Worship rarely works out well as a good starting point.  What is a better start?  Actually knowing Shepard's past and being attracted to him because of it... like say Liara.  Tali is far from alone in this though;  From my limited knowledge neither Kaiden or Ashley have ever really referred to Shepard's background either.  I've only ever heard them talking about themselves and their own history.

I have done Tali's mission several times now and talked with everyone several times... I am unsure how xenophobic they are as a species, especially given they require the existence of other races for supplies they are unable to manufacture.

Shandepared wrote...  Asari don't give you children either. Your turian girlfriend could go get knocked up by another turian and the child would be just as much yours as an asari child would.

I believe that you are in error; Liara specifically state that Asari can reproduce with any known sentient organic species, in the first Mass Effect.  Asari 'scientists' may say one thing but that Matriarchal Bartender proves otherwise.

Modifié par Jax Sparrow, 11 avril 2010 - 10:16 .

[uhdnrt]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Shandepared wrote...
Asari don't give you children either. Your turian girlfriend
could go get knocked up by another turian and the child would be just as
much yours as an asari child would.

Jax Sparrow wrote... 
Liara specifically state that Asari can reproduce with any known sentient organic species, in the first Mass Effect.  Asari 'scientists' may say one thing but that Matriarchal Bartender proves otherwise.

What does the Matriarchal Bartender prove?  She has an opinion is all that I am aware of.

She states sh "obviously got a bit of her mouth" from her Dad.  I am inclined to eblieve that should actually be a nature vs nurture argument, not a biological argument though.

[Collider]

Jax Sparrow wrote...

So because I disagree with you I 'obviously have not romanced Tali'Zorah vas Normandy?  I am unsure if you will believe me but yes I have romanced her and I actually do like the character.  However, Tali'Zorah vas Normandy has yet to actually display anything beyond infatuated hero worship to me.

Does the fact that she says that Shepard is the person she trusts the most not an indication otherwise? How is saying that he's dashing once equivalent to hero worship? Liara says "you're intriguing." So would I be justified in saying that the relationship with Liara never develops beyond thinking that Shepard is interesting?

She continually fails to display any knowledge of Shepard's personal/private history.


I think there are only two decisions that she actually has an
opinion on in both Mass Effect games.  That is hardly a loving
relationship...

See, this kind of stuff makes me suspect you weren't paying attention. She literally talks about Shepard's history, even the decisions you made in ME1, like whether Wrex survived or not.

There are two decisions she actually has an opinion about? Uh, what? She has an opinion regarding
what you do with the Geth Data in ME1 (if you don't give it to her, she does not like that), s
he has an opinion regarding whether the Quarians should go to war with the Geth or back down,
whether the Quarians should try to reclaim their homeworld (outright disagreeing with Shepard if he says just to try for a colony or go for peace),
what you do with her father's research (even not gaining loyalty if you rat him out),
recruiting Legion,
helping Legion,
what you do with the heretics (even outright disagreeing with rewriting them, saying that you are making the Geth stronger),
she has opinions on how you deal with the Legion/Tali fight,
she has opinions on how you handle being reinstated as a Spectre (if you refuse, she says that the races need to work together, not against each other),
she even has an opinion regarding what you do with Niftu Cal, or "biotic God," and plenty more examples. You likely missed out on all of these since it's seems you don't even bring here along.

There are many ways to start a relationship yes.  My point is that Hero Worship rarely works out well as a good starting point.  What is a better start?  Actually knowing Shepard's past and being attracted to him because of it... like say Liara.

Bringing up Liara is laughable because the romance is basically starts out as "I'm interested in you." Tali's romance starts ONLY if you were trustworthy even not to reveal her father's data, whereas with Liara all you have to do is be nice with her on the Normandy. You can even continue the romance with Liara if you kill the Rachni Queen, which Liara disagreed with. And as aforementioned, Tali specifically notes Shepard's history. Liara? If I'm not mistaken, all she talks about is how you saw the beacon. Wow. I'm not hating on Liara here, but saying that Liara has a BETTER reason to romance Shepard over Tali is comical considering how Tali and Shepard have all that history, friendship, and the element of trust, all of which are extremely important to a relationship.

The romance with Tali is BASED upon history. She had a crush on him the entire time, and grew to trust him. The relationship is based upon both history and trust, how about Liara? Just because she's "interested"?

Modifié par Collider, 11 avril 2010 - 10:27 .

[jtav]

Truth be told, I can think of a dozen arguments for ANY of the romances to be doomed and a dozen counter-arguments for each of them. One romance may end tragically, but Bioware will probably end most happily. What happens after the endgame should be left up to the individual. If you want to imagine Tali/Shepard is doomed, have fun. If you want them to be happily married til death, have fun. Neither is right, and no romance is better than another.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Look at this... Tali's cult of personality leads to her dying a grisly death? Heavy risk... but the priiize...

[GodWood]

So this has turned into a my LI loves me more than your LI thread?

Lovely...

[Jax Sparrow]

JohnnyDollar wrote...  What does the Matriarchal Bartender prove?  She has an opinion is all that I am aware of.

Everything is an opinion;  And, I trust hers more than any scientists.  As for the point: Those who 'mate' with Asari are the child's 'father', and thus any sentient species can have children with Asari.

Collider wrote...  Does the fact that she says that Shepard is the person she trusts the most not an indication otherwise? How is saying that he's dashing once equivalent to hero worship? Liara says "you're intriguing." So would I be justified in saying that the relationship with Liara never develops beyond thinking that Shepard is interesting?

If you wish too? yes you would be justified.  Though Liara does display her love in words and actions, moreso than Tali... when was the last time Tali saved Shepard's life?

Collider wrote...  See, this kind of stuff makes me suspect you weren't paying attention. She literally talks about Shepard's history, even the decisions you made in ME1, like whether Wrex survived or not.

Maybe I am wrong, but I fail to remember any significant words from her regarding decisions I made.

Collider wrote...  There are two decisions she actually has an opinion about? Uh, what?

• she has an opinion regarding whether the Quarians should go to war with the Geth or back down,
• what you do with her father's research (even not gaining loyalty if you rat him out),
  she has opinions on how you handle being reinstated as a Spectre (if you refuse, she says that the races need to work together, not against each other)...
• She has an opinion on what you do with the Harbinger Base

Or you assign more weight to offhanded comments she makes while in the party than I do.  I have deleted references you made that I felt she had a self interest in and had nothing to do with what Shepard actually thinks or your relationship with her. I added one to your list that I feel does relate to Tali paying attention to Shepard.

Collider wrote...  Bringing up Liara is laughable because the romance is basically starts out as "I'm interested in you." Tali's romance starts ONLY if you were trustworthy even not to reveal her father's data, whereas with Liara all you have to do is be nice with her on the Normandy. You can even continue the romance with Liara if you kill the Rachni Queen, which Liara disagreed with. And as aforementioned, Tali specifically notes Shepard's history. Liara? If I'm not mistaken, all she talks about is how you saw the beacon. Wow. I'm not hating on Liara here, but saying that Liara has a BETTER reason to romance Shepard over Tali is comical considering how Tali and Shepard have all that history, friendship, and the element of trust, all of which are extremely important to a relationship.

You are entitled to your opinion; Obviously I see a lot more love from Liara than you do. However, my point was that Liara has actually payed attention to Shepard's actions more. That means that I agree that Tali has indeed payed attention... just that I believe that she needs to pay a lot more attention.  Maybe they will add a lot more in a Romance DLC?  I hope so.

Collider wrote...  The romance with Tali is BASED upon history. She had a crush on him the entire time, and grew to trust him. The relationship is based upon both history and trust, how about Liara? Just because she's "interested"?

So you admit that Tali says she has a crush... which I believe is another way of saying Hero Worship, in a less descriptive way.

Liara has just as much history with Shepard as Tali. Yet, when Shepard died Liara felt compelled to hold on and find Shepard's body. In the end Liara saved Shepard's life. What did Tali do? she said "oh well; I guess my pilgramage is over."

• When you deal with Wrex on Virmire, Liara has an opinion... I forget what Tali said but I distinctly remember that it had nothing to do with Wrex.
• When on Noveria she tries to be humble and asks if Shepard wants to have her wait on the ship since her mother is on the planet.
• When fighting Benezia Liara immediately sides with Shepard without question; Despite, how traumatic it would be to have to have a death match with your own mother!
• When fighting Sovereign, Liara tries to comfort you by suggesting you abandon the Council and save the human fleet for the Citadel. That is a very Renegade thing to say and completely against Liara's paragon nature... especially in the first game.
• When you meet Liara for the first time? she hugs and kisses you, only if you had a prior relationship with her; But breaks it off to protect him from her new enemies.
• When you press her about why she is after the Shadow Broker, she admits she stole Shepard's body from him because he wanted to give it to the Harbinger.
• She gave his body to Cerberus because Timmy promised Project Lazarus; And, she thinks Shepard now hates her with him knowing she is why Cerberus has its hooks in him.
• When you come to her, she already has detailed information on the two new squidies you can recruit; Which says she was paying attention to how she might help Shepard even though she felt she couldn't go with him yet.

So what did Tali do when you first meet her in ME2? She defends her hero Commander Shepard against her Qurian squidies. If you are upset I list all of the things Liara reacted to Shepard on? Please remember that you asked; And, especially that this is just my opinion. Obviously you disagree and I think that is beautiful.

[thatguy212]

Okay look guys as interesting as your points about why Liara is obviously a better love interest than Tali are, that isn't what this topic is about so could we try to remain on topic please

[GodWood]

Jax Sparrow wrote...

Liara has just as much history with Shepard as Tali. Yet, when Shepard died Liara felt compelled to hold on and find Shepard's body. In the end Liara saved Shepard's life. What did Tali do? she said "oh well; I guess my pilgramage is over."..

And yet once Shepard has recovered Liara won't even take a few weeks/months to spend some quality couple time and help save the galaxy, instead she gives you a kiss throws you an extra 500 creds and tells you to be on your merry way.