111 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

Jack has issues. We all know that. She was horrifically abused for years by Cerberus, raped multiple times, used in various ways by most people she met, and (if I'm reading the wiki correctly) the one person she was close to died. She's emotionally stunted, violent, and has serious problems with impulse control, along with some very skewed views on sex. As a female gamer who plays a male Shep, I couldn't bring myself to romance her. I kept thinking she needed a therapist much more than she needed a boyfriend. I've been told the culmination scene is quite sweet, but I can't help but wonder if it might have been better to dial down her traumatic past or have her already in the process of healing. It takes a lot more time than the game gives to deal with this kind of thing, and romance isn't a cure-all. Granted, your entire squad is dysfunctional, but it's really noticeable here because of sheer scale.

[Collider]

jtav wrote...

Jack has issues. We all know that. She was horrifically abused for years by Cerberus, raped multiple times, used in various ways by most people she met, and (if I'm reading the wiki correctly) the one person she was close to died.

Yea, that's pretty bad.

I think what you may really want is the ability to make platonic friendships with characters ala Dragon Age. I'd agree with that. I'm not sure Jack would be receptive to the "just friends" thing though, she's been used before and may not believe there really can be just friends.

[huntrrz]

I agree. I romanced Jack once just to see what happened, but she's too damaged to get involved with.



(Trouble is, the romance might be the only thing that motivates her to seek therapy.)

[KendallX23]

well just because she is is a romance option dosen't mean she is all good..she even says..and Mordin too that she might kill u during your times togheter..and she dosen't deny she is psychotic..but i don't think a therapist would help...a lover..might calm her down

Modifié par KendallX23, 11 avril 2010 - 12:00 .

[jtav]

Collider wrote...

jtav wrote...

Jack has issues. We all know that. She was horrifically abused for years by Cerberus, raped multiple times, used in various ways by most people she met, and (if I'm reading the wiki correctly) the one person she was close to died.

Yea, that's pretty bad.

I think what you may really want is the ability to make platonic friendships with characters ala Dragon Age. I'd agree with that. I'm not sure Jack would be receptive to the "just friends" thing though, she's been used before and may not believe there really can be just friends.

Pretty much. I'd love a platonic path. The "romance=healing" trope bugs me. She really needs someone who will listen to her, and I'd argue she really needs to discover that there are people in the world who won't use her before she embarks on a romance.

[epoch_]

jtav wrote...

Collider wrote...

jtav wrote...

Jack has issues. We all know that. She was horrifically abused for years by Cerberus, raped multiple times, used in various ways by most people she met, and (if I'm reading the wiki correctly) the one person she was close to died.

Yea, that's pretty bad.

I think what you may really want is the ability to make platonic friendships with characters ala Dragon Age. I'd agree with that. I'm not sure Jack would be receptive to the "just friends" thing though, she's been used before and may not believe there really can be just friends.

Pretty much. I'd love a platonic path. The "romance=healing" trope bugs me. She really needs someone who will listen to her, and I'd argue she really needs to discover that there are people in the world who won't use her before she embarks on a romance.

My first play through I had to reload a save because I accidently romanced her. I was just trying to help her...

[Nostradamoose]

It's a fact unbeknownst to most that Jack's writting crew were way too much hooked on that song :

Sexual Healing By Marvin Gaye



On a more serious note, yea, never could bring myself to romance her, even the paragon romance just seemed waaaay out of place. Just can't help feeling pity, not any kind of "attraction" to the character.

[InvaderErl]

A relationship with Jack would probably be the hardest emotionally, not impossible but get ready for lots of ups and downs. She strikes me as the type that would eventually try and sabotage her own happiness.

[KendallX23]

erm..after what she's been through..would u be surprised if she got scared of a person who actually wants to help her no strings attached

[jtav]

KendallX23 wrote...

erm..after what she's been through..would u be surprised if she got scared of a person who actually wants to help her no strings attached

I really think she'd be suspicious of anyone who said they cared about her, even, maybe especially, if she's sleeping with them.

[InvaderErl]

jtav wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...

erm..after what she's been through..would u be surprised if she got scared of a person who actually wants to help her no strings attached

I really think she'd be suspicious of anyone who said they cared about her, even, maybe especially, if she's sleeping with them.

That's what the Renegade sex scene is for.

I don't even think they had sex in the Paragon conclusion.

[KendallX23]

i guess the devs just wanted another romance option..i'm ok with that..but how about the romance goes first to us helping her..not directly to sex

[Kat313]

yeah, just because she's a romance option doesn't mean she has to be a good person to be with. That's actually a more realistic element of the game. I think her history is interesting, it makes for a pretty unique video game persona.

[Mondo47]

I'll admit that a great deal of my affection for the character is very motherly; Jack's someone that just needs someone to be there for her without any kind of strings, and would ride out all her extremes without judgement. She needs love, though I'm inclined to agree that it shouldn't have to be the romantic kind exclusively (that "all it takes is the love of a good man/woman" stuff irks me too). It's not really represented in the game for a male Shepard (though it is kinda there if you read between the lines a bit in her post-loyalty dialogues for a female Shepard), and I guess it's natural enough for a woman carrying so much weight to want to become involved with a man that has helped take it away to some degree... I doubt it'd be an easy relationship, and it might well collapse under its own black-hole-like gravity, but if it didn't... wow. You'd not find two more people ready to do anything for one another in the universe.

I'm all for love conquering all, and considering the character's past, hell, she deserves some happiness. I don't think the level of trauma need preclude a romance developing in an organic, realistic sense of the word, but it would have been nice to become her surrogate big sis, you know? I think that's maybe one of the most interesting things about Jack as a character... there's so much potential for development. What happens in the game isn't going to fix her (Shepard himself says that he can't do that in a few conversations), but it's maybe the first step. If Jack was to hypothetically survive the third episode, she could continue to evolve, with Shepard or without, into whoever Jack wants to finally be. And that could be in itself a pretty cool story.

[KendallX23]

Mondo47 wrote...

I'll admit that a great deal of my affection for the character is very motherly; Jack's someone that just needs someone to be there for her without any kind of strings, and would ride out all her extremes without judgement. She needs love, though I'm inclined to agree that it shouldn't have to be the romantic kind exclusively (that "all it takes is the love of a good man/woman" stuff irks me too). It's not really represented in the game for a male Shepard (though it is kinda there if you read between the lines a bit in her post-loyalty dialogues for a female Shepard), and I guess it's natural enough for a woman carrying so much weight to want to become involved with a man that has helped take it away to some degree... I doubt it'd be an easy relationship, and it might well collapse under its own black-hole-like gravity, but if it didn't... wow. You'd not find two more people ready to do anything for one another in the universe.

I'm all for love conquering all, and considering the character's past, hell, she deserves some happiness. I don't think the level of trauma need preclude a romance developing in an organic, realistic sense of the word, but it would have been nice to become her surrogate big sis, you know? I think that's maybe one of the most interesting things about Jack as a character... there's so much potential for development. What happens in the game isn't going to fix her (Shepard himself says that he can't do that in a few conversations), but it's maybe the first step. If Jack was to hypothetically survive the third episode, she could continue to evolve, with Shepard or without, into whoever Jack wants to finally be. And that could be in itself a pretty cool story.

         She also seems to suffer from survivor guilt even if she dosen't admit it...but u only find that out if u go the romance way..i feel it should have been a normal dialog when u talk to her male or female SHep...
         Your post said it all...hopefully we will see some development form Jack in ME3 with or without romance

Modifié par KendallX23, 11 avril 2010 - 12:42 .

[eternalnightmare13]

If you like chicks that cry while you bang 'em then yeah it was 'sweet'.

jtav wrote...

Jack has issues. We all know that. She was horrifically abused for years by Cerberus, raped multiple times, used in various ways by most people she met, and (if I'm reading the wiki correctly) the one person she was close to died. She's emotionally stunted, violent, and has serious problems with impulse control, along with some very skewed views on sex. As a female gamer who plays a male Shep, I couldn't bring myself to romance her. I kept thinking she needed a therapist much more than she needed a boyfriend. I've been told the culmination scene is quite sweet, but I can't help but wonder if it might have been better to dial down her traumatic past or have her already in the process of healing. It takes a lot more time than the game gives to deal with this kind of thing, and romance isn't a cure-all. Granted, your entire squad is dysfunctional, but it's really noticeable here because of sheer scale.

[Bucky_McLachlan]

Therapy doesn't work on sociopaths.

[jtav]

I don't think she's a sociopath. She has some capacity for empathy and guilt. (see her survivor's guilt). But she needs professional help, not a cuddle.

[Collider]

Are you sure about that, jtav? Someone being so intimate with her without using her may be just what the doctor ordered. She needs to realize that people are not all abusers. All her life they pretty much acted like this.



Are you saying we should deny people the romance with her? Everyone has different tastes. I personally prefer Tali, but I can see the appeal some people may have with Jack, even though I don't see eye to eye.

[Apollo Rising]

I was suprised by the Paragon romance scene with Jack. Im my opinion it was the most touching love scene in both games. I just wanted to hold her and let her know that not everyone is an a-hole trying to take her for a ride. Im scared that Ash is gonna kick my Shepards butt though,its gonna be a hell of a confrontation. Super soldier against Super biotic...let the battle begin.

[Nigawatts]

The real issue with Jack is you can't "Paragon" her without bringing up the Romance options. And if you don't follow through with it, she'll shell up again. So you either have to ignore her, or romance her.



There is no middle ground with her, which I suppose is fine. But if she is so starved for the attention, and Femsheps can't romance her, does she just shut down during the second half of the game for the female players?

[jtav]

Collider wrote...

Are you sure about that, jtav? Someone being so intimate with her without using her may be just what the doctor ordered. She needs to realize that people are not all abusers. All her life they pretty much acted like this.

Are you saying we should deny people the romance with her? Everyone has different tastes. I personally prefer Tali, but I can see the appeal some people may have with Jack, even though I don't see eye to eye.

I'm saying that "all a severely damaged person needs is romantic love" is one of my least favorite tropes ever and I find it somewhat offensive. I wouldn't deny someone the chance to romance her, but I would have done several things 1) added more convos to allow for a more gradual progression 2) allow femSheps and non-romancing maleSheps to offer her some platonic intimacy and 3) toned down her issues to begin with   

[enormousmoonboots]

Nigawatts wrote...

The real issue with Jack is you can't "Paragon" her without bringing up the Romance options. And if you don't follow through with it, she'll shell up again. So you either have to ignore her, or romance her.

There is no middle ground with her, which I suppose is fine. But if she is so starved for the attention, and Femsheps can't romance her, does she just shut down during the second half of the game for the female players?

Yes. Once she started that "I DON'T WANT TO BE A PART OF YOUR GIRL'S CLUB, SHEPARD" bull I suddenly regretted peacefully settling the argument between her and Miranda. Seriously, the poor handling made me lose any sympathy and actually hate the character. If she'd died on the suicide mission, I couldn't have cared. Subsequent playthroughs I only bother to do her loyalty mission out of completionism, desire for XP, and wanting to have her put a shirt on.

Collider wrote...

Are you sure about that, jtav? Someone
being so intimate with her without using her may be just what the doctor
ordered. She needs to realize that people are not all abusers. All her
life they pretty much acted like this.

Well, there's a reason psychiatrists can't enter into relationships with patients. Mixing those two roles can be extremely bad. What happens if their relationship hits a rocky spot? What if he does something she doesn't agree with? She'll take it like a personal betrayal and backslide.