111 réponses à ce sujet

[Collider]

I see jtav. Forgive me for possibly misinterpreting you.

@enormousmoonboots. You also have a good point. Would Jack be receptive the whole idea of psychiatrists though? I would imagine she'd be offended about the whole thing. The Jack relationship could be very unstable, yes.

[enormousmoonboots]

Not psychiatrists in so many words, but the beginning of the Paragon relationship IS therapy, Shep just didn't introduce himself as 'doctor'. 90% of therapy is just talking your problems out, the 'so I see you have issues with your mother' thing doesn't really happen in real life. And as someone who's seen a therapist before, the fact that it starts off like that and becomes romance is VERY squicky.

Modifié par enormousmoonboots, 11 avril 2010 - 02:30 .

[Bucky_McLachlan]

jtav wrote...

I don't think she's a sociopath. She has some capacity for empathy and guilt. (see her survivor's guilt). But she needs professional help, not a cuddle.

It's pretty easy to say that when you haven't been abused your whole life. I don't like the character at all but a little love could go a long way here. And obviously it does here. Putting what you perceive to be real world logic on an impossible situation doesn't change anything.

^Also what that guy said is pretty spot on. Therapy only helps you work out your own problems.

Modifié par Bucky_McLachlan, 11 avril 2010 - 02:35 .

[Mondo47]

In one of her early lines Jack expresses complete disdain for psychotherapy from previous experience (if I remember right it's the same conversation where she says Shepard obviously isn't "the couch type"). So chances are she'd lock up if anyone obviously tried that kind of approach with her.

By the same token, in one of her later conversations with a female Shepard she slips in the line "I like you, Shepard. Let's leave it at that." I think the "Girl's Club" line comes in a later conversation (or is it in the "I don't wanna play." lockdown convo... can't remember, now I know the dialogue dries up I tend to stop talking to her right after her loyalty mission). Either way, for her to even say she likes Shepard is a bit of a breakthrough... guess you have to take what you can with Jack. Oh well.

[enormousmoonboots]

Mondo47 wrote...

In one of her early lines Jack expresses complete disdain for psychotherapy from previous experience (if I remember right it's the same conversation where she says Shepard obviously isn't "the couch type"). So chances are she'd lock up if anyone obviously tried that kind of approach with her.

By the same token, in one of her later conversations with a female Shepard she slips in the line "I like you, Shepard. Let's leave it at that." I think the "Girl's Club" line comes in a later conversation (or is it in the "I don't wanna play." lockdown convo... can't remember, now I know the dialogue dries up I tend to stop talking to her right after her loyalty mission). Either way, for her to even say she likes Shepard is a bit of a breakthrough... guess you have to take what you can with Jack. Oh well.

The 'girl's club' line is her lockdown loop.

She says she disdains psychotherapy, but clearly has no idea what it actually is. Talking about your problems? That's therapy. That's what she does with male Shepard.

I'd take what I could if there was anything to take. Her loyalty mission got me genuinely interested in her--and then the game shut me down. No penis, no character development.

[Mondo47]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

No penis, no character development.

Yeah, I guess I can relate to that... I had the same issue with Dragon Age: Origins. Play the game for 60+ hours only to discover that because I lack a penis and have morals I was locked into one exceptionally depressing ending. Thanks for ****ing nothing, Bioware!

[Mkrgross]

I am of the opinion, and Jack fans are I believe, is that Shep does not actually have sex with her in the 'paragon' romance path.

[Collider]

That's not really the point of the thread, though. All of the romance options, with a few exceptions, can be interpreted as just being intimate (cuddling, holding eachother, etc) instead of full on sex. Except maybe Jacob and Miranda, they don't really have any problems in sex but the other romance interests do.

[Strikor2115]

YES.

Jack was so over dramatic and self centered. "I had it sooo bad" "My life sucked" "i went throught hell."

Even when she finds out that the other children were way worse off all she has to say is "ok...maybe the others had it bad, but I still had it way worse."

I avoide the red room on the 4th floor.

[archurban]

well, I had one romance with her before. but it wasn't really that kind of thing we imagine. during conversation, you can lead to have a sex one time, right. so I did. next time I tried to talk with her. she always told me 'fcuk off'. no more talk.

[ShadyKat]

Her entire character was way overdone, and imo, very cliche. Before I even played ME2, i guessed how she would play out, and I was right. I wish she was just crazy just for the sake of being crazy.

[Mkrgross]

And here we go again, back down the "cliche", "stereotype" path, yippie this never gets old. I'm done. /sarcasm



I agree with Mondo47 on this entirely.

[ShadyKat]

Mkrgross wrote...

And here we go again, back down the "cliche", "stereotype" path, yippie this never gets old. I'm done. /sarcasm

I agree with Mondo47 on this entirely.

In my opinion she was. Opinions aren't right or wrong, and that's what's makes them great.

[Agent.0.Fortune]

It was supposed to add depth. She starts off as some sort of badass psycho who eats enemeies (and men) for lunch.
Then you get her loyalty mission and all of a sudden the story opens up and you see that she is just an emotionally retared girl with a vitim complex. But as she comes to the realization that the universe isn't out to get her, and even though she had it bad other had it worse, and in fact that she was protected from the worst of it. Which of course really messes with her perspective.

And finally it is up to up to Shepherd to retain emotional control of her and permantly silence those nagging doubts allowing her to cocoon herself in the walls of self pitty. Or help her come to terms with the past and break the hold it has over her.

Modifié par Agent.0.Fortune, 11 avril 2010 - 04:43 .

[OverlordNexas]

I like Jack a lot, but at a certain point her traumatic past began to tug at my suspension of disbelieve. I found myself asking if this much bad **** could possibly happen to one person. I think Bioware should have toned it down a little bit, maybe drop the rape or something.

[enormousmoonboots]

Agent.0.Fortune wrote...

It was supposed to add depth. She starts off as some sort of badass psycho who eats enemeies (and men) for lunch.
Then you get her loyalty mission and all of a sudden the story opens up and you see that she is just an emotionally retared girl with a vitim complex. But as she comes to the realization that the universe isn't out to get her, and even though she had it bad other had it worse, and in fact that she was protected from the worst of it. Which of course really messes with her perspective.

And finally it is up to up to Shepherd to retain emotional control of her and permantly silence those nagging doubts allowing her to cocoon herself in the walls of self pitty. Or help her come to terms with the past and break the hold it has over her.

Girls can't do that, though.

That would just be silly.

Why would a woman ever accept the help of someone she doesn't want to have sex with, after all?

[Xaijin]

She is a good Jack. We pet and feed her every day.

[ekwhite]

OverlordNexas wrote...

I like Jack a lot, but at a certain point her traumatic past began to tug at my suspension of disbelieve. I found myself asking if this much bad **** could possibly happen to one person. I think Bioware should have toned it down a little bit, maybe drop the rape or something.

In real life, this much bad **** does happen to real children - rape, torture, and murder.  Only the biotic stuff and the dramatic escape are unreal.

[Sand King]

Strikor2115 wrote...

YES.
Jack was so over dramatic and self centered. "I had it sooo bad" "My life sucked" "i went throught hell."
Even when she finds out that the other children were way worse off all she has to say is "ok...maybe the others had it bad, but I still had it way worse."
I avoide the red room on the 4th floor.

Miranda is the exact same way. She wines a bout being a legacy and not a daughter and about saving Oriana from the same "tortured" life. Jack on the other hand has had a tortured life and has a reason to be mad at the world.

[enormousmoonboots]

Sand King wrote...

Miranda is the exact same way. She wines a bout being a legacy and not a daughter and about saving Oriana from the same "tortured" life. Jack on the other hand has had a tortured life and has a reason to be mad at the world.

There's more than one kind of abuse. Just because Miranda doesn't have scars like Jack, it doesn't mean her youth was sunshine and butterflies.

Jack and Miranda are essentially the same backstory with varying levels of acceptability/visibility. That isn't to say Miranda doesn't get equally tedious, but saying that she didn't have problems growing up is incorrect.

And let's not get into that 'well Jack suffered more than Miranda so her reaction to abuse is more valid' sh!t. Just...don't.

[Bucky_McLachlan]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Her loyalty mission got me genuinely interested in her

Well that's definitely where my interest went from not really caring to "wow this character really sucks."

I mean her loyalty mission consists of you going to this abandoned base and fighting Blood Pack mercs and some random unimportant guy from her past showing up.

Modifié par Bucky_McLachlan, 11 avril 2010 - 05:27 .

[enormousmoonboots]

Bucky_McLachlan wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Her loyalty mission got me genuinely interested in her

Well that's definitely where my interest went from not really caring to "wow this character really sucks."

I mean her loyalty mission consists of you going to this abandoned base and fighting Blood Pack mercs and some random unimportant guy from her past showing up.

It was mostly the reveal that all of the other children had actually been tortured to save her. Totally shakes up her worldview, even her very definition of herself. That seems like the sort of thing that should cause some serious character development.

lolnope

[Canned Bullets]

All the woman of ME2 have issues, Miranda obviously has daddy issues, Jack just needs help due to experimentation and betrayal, Tali's father was never really there for her, and Samara/Morinth has succubus daughters/is a succubus.

[Collider]

To be honest, all of ME2's squad mates had issues. All of them.