111 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

I find myself....agreeing with the OP. Her romance was handled poorly, IMO.
I don't think she should have been a full romance option in ME2.

Modifié par jlb524, 11 avril 2010 - 05:42 .

[Hulluliini]

You need a therapist for MUCH smaller issues, so I agree Bioware should give her the opportunity to get some for herself! I doubt she's be receptive to sth like that, but maybe Shepard softened her a bit in advance?

[Sand King]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Sand King wrote...

Miranda is the exact same way. She wines a bout being a legacy and not a daughter and about saving Oriana from the same "tortured" life. Jack on the other hand has had a tortured life and has a reason to be mad at the world.

There's more than one kind of abuse. Just because Miranda doesn't have scars like Jack, it doesn't mean her youth was sunshine and butterflies.

Jack and Miranda are essentially the same backstory with varying levels of acceptability/visibility. That isn't to say Miranda doesn't get equally tedious, but saying that she didn't have problems growing up is incorrect.

And let's not get into that 'well Jack suffered more than Miranda so her reaction to abuse is more valid' sh!t. Just...don't.

I under stand that they are two sides of the same coin but Miranda makes it worse when she refused to accecpt that what Cerberus did to her was wrong. She had a chance to understand Jack's pain and see how similar they are but she decided not and just called her a mistake.

Modifié par Sand King, 11 avril 2010 - 06:16 .

[jlb524]

Hulluliini wrote...

You need a therapist for MUCH smaller issues, so I agree Bioware should give her the opportunity to get some for herself! I doubt she's be receptive to sth like that, but maybe Shepard softened her a bit in advance?

How?  Shepard doens't try real hard to soften her.

[JJDrakken]

Not only do I love Jack, I romanced her twice, She far more fun & interesting then Miranda(who I will never romance). So far, Ive romanced Jack Twice, Kept my Romance to Liara, Kept my Romance to Ashley, Romanced Tali & Romanced Garrus(I felt with my male shep's, he is my best friend, I wanted him to finally get some happyness), So I played a gal for that reason.



JJ

[JJDrakken]

Collider wrote...

To be honest, all of ME2's squad mates had issues. All of them.

Which are mostly Daddy Issues, The Writer(s) for this apparently had many daddy issues themselves or are attracted to daddy issues or just horrible cut n paste writers?

Grunt: Daddy Issues(His Creator)
Miranda: Daddy Issues(Her Father)
Tali: Daddy Issues(Her Father)
Jack: Daddy Issues(Cerberus was basically father like figure to her as a child)
Garrus: Daddy Issues(from Mass Effect 1)
Wrex: Daddy Issues(from Mass Effect 1)
Ashley: Daddy Issues(from Mass Effect 1)
Liara: Daddy Issues(well ok Mommy issues I guess, she is pure bred, thus 2 Asari, again ME1)
Thane: Is the Daddy Issue
Morinth: Daddy Issues(yes yes, Asari are Female, but Samara seems more the "father" type)
Samara: Is Daddy Issue(points above)

Those that we haven't seen a daddy issue with, but who knows?

Legion(Though Technically all Geth have "Daddy" issues, with Quarians)
Kasumi(Not a single mention of family, who knows?)
Zaeed(Well he never mentions father issues, but who knows right?, perhaps It's daddy issue over creation of the Blue Suns?)
Mordin Solos(being an Uncle issues?, Beyond that nothing really)
Kaiden(Had Teacher/Authority Issues, perhaps possible Daddy Issues?)

Now all above also have other major issues compiled with said "Daddy Issues" but that seems to be underlying issue for most.

JJ

Modifié par JJDrakken, 11 avril 2010 - 06:44 .

[SnakeHelah]

KendallX23 wrote...

i guess the devs just wanted another romance option..i'm ok with that..but how about the romance goes first to us helping her..not directly to sex

You know they could've just done Samara romance instead of Jack's, much more people would've liked it imo

[Phaelducan]

In all fairness, at least 2 of the background options for Shep (Sole Survivor and Ruthless) could have seriously warped Shepard's views on human life. Jack might be pretty messed up, but no more so than Shepard could potentially be even before the events in the games are considered.



Jack isn't very realistic as a romance option for certain playthroughs, but I don't see it as far-fetched for others. Similarly, Miranda or Tali might not fit certain playthroughs either.

[jlb524]

I'd prefer they just developed Jack as a character minus a romance. Lots of potential there, IMO. This way, every Shepard could have seen her character develop and not just those that romanced her. After her loyalty mission, I feel there was a lot of potential there to talk to her about her feelings on the Cerberus lab incident. She has a grand realization that she was not the only victim there and many other children suffered far worse fates that she ever did on her behalf. Unfortunately, this gets dropped for the romance and also it completely gets dropped if you do not romance her.

I just wish there was more dialog there about this as it's pretty deep stuff. Instead, it get dropped for the 'romance' or it just gets dropped.

Modifié par jlb524, 11 avril 2010 - 07:25 .

[royceclemens]

Phaelducan wrote...

In all fairness, at least 2 of the background options for Shep (Sole Survivor and Ruthless) could have seriously warped Shepard's views on human life. Jack might be pretty messed up, but no more so than Shepard could potentially be even before the events in the games are considered.

Jack isn't very realistic as a romance option for certain playthroughs, but I don't see it as far-fetched for others. Similarly, Miranda or Tali might not fit certain playthroughs either.

This.  Particularly if you romanced Ashley, but left her on Virmire.  I know a certain bald chick in the subdeck with a dead ex who might know how I feel about that kind of thing.

And as for jlb's concerns about a lack of non-romantic dialogue that could be used to build character, I completely agree.  But that's not solely endemic to just Jack.  That goes for every LI on the ship.  I haven't rigged up a FemShep to romance Garrus yet, so I'm just stuck with his paltry two (TWO!) conversations.

Modifié par royceclemens, 11 avril 2010 - 07:34 .

[KendallX23]

SnakeHelah wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...

i guess the devs just wanted another romance option..i'm ok with that..but how about the romance goes first to us helping her..not directly to sex

You know they could've just done Samara romance instead of Jack's, much more people would've liked it imo

Why ?Samara is boring...and she's reeealy old..and kinda ugly..at least that's how i see her

[Dokarqt]

KendallX23 wrote...

SnakeHelah wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...

i guess the devs just wanted another romance option..i'm ok with that..but how about the romance goes first to us helping her..not directly to sex

You know they could've just done Samara romance instead of Jack's, much more people would've liked it imo

Why ?Samara is boring...and she's reeealy old..and kinda ugly..at least that's how i see her

but the bewbage... the priiiize

[Urazz]

Dokarqt wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...

SnakeHelah wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...

i guess the devs just wanted another romance option..i'm ok with that..but how about the romance goes first to us helping her..not directly to sex

You know they could've just done Samara romance instead of Jack's, much more people would've liked it imo

Why ?Samara is boring...and she's reeealy old..and kinda ugly..at least that's how i see her

but the bewbage... the priiiize

Are you insinuating that Samara is the alien fusiion of the Jacob and Miranda romances?

[Raphael diSanto]

ekwhite wrote...

OverlordNexas wrote...

I like Jack a lot, but at a certain point her traumatic past began to tug at my suspension of disbelieve. I found myself asking if this much bad **** could possibly happen to one person. I think Bioware should have toned it down a little bit, maybe drop the rape or something.

In real life, this much bad **** does happen to real children - rape, torture, and murder.  Only the biotic stuff and the dramatic escape are unreal.

This. Jack may be a collection of 'bad stuff happent o me in my childhood' tropes, but they're cliches because they're real. That stuff happens.

[Dokarqt]

Urazz wrote...
Are you insinuating that Samara is the alien fusiion of the Jacob and Miranda romances?

No im saying I like her breasts:?

[Jackal904]

When you do romance her you achieve more than what any therapist could. Buts it's not like she's cured of all her craziness and trauma when you romance her, but it does help her a lot. Jack's romance is not at all like Miranda's romance. You are not just hitting on her and trying to get in her pants. Jack's romance is about showing her that there are genuinely nice people out there, and that it's ok to trust someone. If you want to help Jack, romancing her is the best thing you could do.

jlb524 wrote...

I find myself....agreeing with the OP. Her romance was handled poorly, IMO.
I don't think she should have been a full romance option in ME2.

What Jack are we talking about here? Because Jack has by far the most well written and developed romance between both Mass Effect games. If you think her romance is handled poorly then I question your intelligence, big time. There is no reason good enough for her not being a full romance option in ME2. She's not freaking Hannibal Lecture. She is much more sane that people give her credit for. It's stupid to think she shouldn't be romanceable. To not let Jack be romanceable would be such an incredible waste of an amazing character and their story.

Modifié par Jackal904, 11 avril 2010 - 01:42 .

[jtav]

I certainly don't mean to dismiss her trauma, yorkj86. I've never suffered anything on that scale and hope I never do. I apologize for any offense.

[KendallX23]

well Kasumi kinda gives an insight at how the romance is working...

[smudboy]

jtav wrote...

Jack has issues. We all know that. She was horrifically abused for years by Cerberus, raped multiple times, used in various ways by most people she met, and (if I'm reading the wiki correctly) the one person she was close to died. She's emotionally stunted, violent, and has serious problems with impulse control, along with some very skewed views on sex. As a female gamer who plays a male Shep, I couldn't bring myself to romance her. I kept thinking she needed a therapist much more than she needed a boyfriend. I've been told the culmination scene is quite sweet, but I can't help but wonder if it might have been better to dial down her traumatic past or have her already in the process of healing. It takes a lot more time than the game gives to deal with this kind of thing, and romance isn't a cure-all. Granted, your entire squad is dysfunctional, but it's really noticeable here because of sheer scale.

I never completely understood the Jack character.  The media blitz showed her off as a bad ass ****, who's pissed off, angry, anti-social, and a psychopath.  I never saw her as a psychopath, just someone who had it rough and is trying to get by.

I also don't understand why they put so much effort into her tattoos.  We can't even see them, or learn anything about them.  It's like they have this massive tapestry of a story to tell, and we just get anecdotes, which were exactly the same dialog response from her character trailer.

I also don't understand her belt-shirt.  The hell?  Bald is badass.  No top is just ridiculous.  This isn't God of War, although at times I wished she'd act more like the Kratos she is in cutscenes.

[DarthCaine]

jlb524 wrote...

Her romance was handled poorly, IMO.

Haha, says the Liara fan
Liara romance:   "I like you, let's f**k"

Modifié par DarthCaine, 11 avril 2010 - 06:44 .

[Steel Dancer]

Nigawatts wrote...

The real issue with Jack is you can't "Paragon" her without bringing up the Romance options. And if you don't follow through with it, she'll shell up again. So you either have to ignore her, or romance her.

There is no middle ground with her, which I suppose is fine. But if she is so starved for the attention, and Femsheps can't romance her, does she just shut down during the second half of the game for the female players?

It does make a certain amount of sense that there's not much in the way of a middle ground with Jack, as her entire life has been one of extremes with no real safe harbour for her at any point.

It's also the single most annoying thing for my FemSheps in that they can't reach her to be even a friend, as she just assumes you want her for "the girls club" *sigh*. Oddly for me it's my Renegade who wants to help her out more (Sole Survivor, no stranger to trauma and Cerberus hate). You'd think siding with her against Miranda would merit more than just a loyalty keeper.

[Computron2000]

OverlordNexas wrote...

I like Jack a lot, but at a certain point her traumatic past began to tug at my suspension of disbelieve. I found myself asking if this much bad **** could possibly happen to one person. I think Bioware should have toned it down a little bit, maybe drop the rape or something.

Yeah its not like children in Africa are recruited to become soldiers and start killing at what 14? 12? Or they get raped and used as liked by the adults

Then again those children in the 90s Filipino/Thai who sell their bodies for sex with older brothers being the pimps for the younger sisters/brothers? Yeah those don't exist as well

There's a lot of **** in the world. Its only you don't know it because you're in a cuddled bubble and you don't bother to read about what happens in the world.

[Mondo47]

smudboy wrote...

I never completely understood the Jack character.  The media blitz showed her off as a bad ass ****, who's pissed off, angry, anti-social, and a psychopath.  I never saw her as a psychopath, just someone who had it rough and is trying to get by.

I also don't understand why they put so much effort into her tattoos.  We can't even see them, or learn anything about them.  It's like they have this massive tapestry of a story to tell, and we just get anecdotes, which were exactly the same dialog response from her character trailer.

I also don't understand her belt-shirt.  The hell?  Bald is badass.  No top is just ridiculous.  This isn't God of War, although at times I wished she'd act more like the Kratos she is in cutscenes.

It's not often I dig what you have to say, Smud, but that was my exact reaction to her in the game. The trailers sold me the terrible stereotype bad girl who I fully expected to be bi simply because it earns her more naughty points, capping people left and right like a Lynch with ****** and throwing out the f-bombs and casual sex because she was just so goddamn xtreme... I play the game and I get this poor little girl I want to pick up and mother who's obviously survived the long walk out of hell and is just trying to keep that scary ol' world at arm's length. It has been said in interviews since release that this was intentional, and the writers deliberately wanted us to see and think one thing, and turn her 'actual' character and potential romance as a reward for those willing to persevere and go out on a limb for a character you're not supposed to get much empathy from. If that's accurate, fair play to them; it's certainly made the most compelling romance to me in the games thus far.

It is a shame we can't get more from the tattoos, though I imagine that would be something that a romancing Shepard would coax out over time... what this one is for, and this one; working through this lexicon of symbols and finding another piece of Jack inside it. I guess there's just not enough time in the game for that kind of stuff. It's nice it's there though... it's stuff they might explore later. Never can tell.

The Nipple-Halter though... I think it's there just to cover nipples. Those things are bad! Censors hate them! You'd think only some people have them, honestly... Anything else would cover up the tattoos, which kind of are Jack's real costume. In at least one of the pre-prod artworks she is completely topless, and her loyalty outfit in all honesty seems like a really hasty reskin to me. I think it's only there to cover her zones of destruction... in case FOX is watching...

[Nyx]

royceclemens wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

In all fairness, at least 2 of the background options for Shep (Sole Survivor and Ruthless) could have seriously warped Shepard's views on human life. Jack might be pretty messed up, but no more so than Shepard could potentially be even before the events in the games are considered.

Jack isn't very realistic as a romance option for certain playthroughs, but I don't see it as far-fetched for others. Similarly, Miranda or Tali might not fit certain playthroughs either.

This.  Particularly if you romanced Ashley, but left her on Virmire.  I know a certain bald chick in the subdeck with a dead ex who might know how I feel about that kind of thing.

+ 2

yorkj86 wrote...

One thing I'll always despise about the internet and the people on it is their ability to discard trauma as having any real effect on a person's character.  Internet toughguys, and all of that.

"You got raped?  Who cares.  Suck it up.  Walk it off."  Seriously, I've seen someone say that before (to paraphrase).

True. Then there is the other side of the spectrum where people don't believe that traumas are something individuals can manage and live with, especially if they face it everyday. Not everyone responds to a situation in the same manner, and generally, it's best to acknowledge the emotional differences in each person.