111 réponses à ce sujet

[Nizzemancer]

I hate her guts, If I could compromise my workethics to make 1 character die in the final battle she would be my 1st, 2nd, and 3rd option. Annoying Emo Nihilist on a powertrip, hell, she wouldn't even have been onboard.

[Azint]

Jack is emotionally unstable besaues of her past, the point of her romance was to show her that she can be helped. Because of all the overwhelming amount of abuse she has endured, Jack is abrasive because all she knows is what she has experienced, her brief time of compassion ended when her ex-lover died to save her.

You need to push through all of this to help her because Jack needs someone there for her.

[OverlordNexas]

Computron2000 wrote...

OverlordNexas wrote...

I like Jack a lot, but at a certain point her traumatic past began to tug at my suspension of disbelieve. I found myself asking if this much bad **** could possibly happen to one person. I think Bioware should have toned it down a little bit, maybe drop the rape or something.

Yeah its not like children in Africa are recruited to become soldiers and start killing at what 14? 12? Or they get raped and used as liked by the adults

Then again those children in the 90s Filipino/Thai who sell their bodies for sex with older brothers being the pimps for the younger sisters/brothers? Yeah those don't exist as well

There's a lot of **** in the world. Its only you don't know it because you're in a cuddled bubble and you don't bother to read about what happens in the world.

I am fully aware of the horrors that go on across the world. Unfortunately, its hard to portray those kinds of things in fiction without coming off as contrived. And thats exactly how I feel about Jack's past, it seems contrived.

[Nyx]

OverlordNexas wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

OverlordNexas wrote...

I like Jack a lot, but at a certain point her traumatic past began to tug at my suspension of disbelieve. I found myself asking if this much bad **** could possibly happen to one person. I think Bioware should have toned it down a little bit, maybe drop the rape or something.

Yeah its not like children in Africa are recruited to become soldiers and start killing at what 14? 12? Or they get raped and used as liked by the adults

Then again those children in the 90s Filipino/Thai who sell their bodies for sex with older brothers being the pimps for the younger sisters/brothers? Yeah those don't exist as well

There's a lot of **** in the world. Its only you don't know it because you're in a cuddled bubble and you don't bother to read about what happens in the world.

I am fully aware of the horrors that go on across the world. Unfortunately, its hard to portray those kinds of things in fiction without coming off as contrived. And thats exactly how I feel about Jack's past, it seems contrived.

Hmmm, perhaps. Then again, none of Shepard's squadmates lived a normal and (possibly, functional) life. Most of them held dangerous, fast lives. Her brand of craziness and experience fit right into the commander's team of misfits, IMO.

[kraidy1117]

Wait so from what I am reading people are saying Jacks romance is not good?



*looks at the sigs of the posters* oh what do you know, they are Tali and Liara fanboys..... Jacks romance is the best one out of them all.

[Collider]

Kraidy...there have been Miranda fans in this thread that have disagreed with Jack's romance. Look around before you talk crap. The OP even IS a Miranda fan. I am very disappointed, Kraidy... :'(

[kraidy1117]

Collider wrote...

Kraidy...there have been Miranda fans in this thread that have disagreed with Jack's romance. Look around before you talk crap. The OP even IS a Miranda fan. I am very disappointed, Kraidy... :'(

There is more Tali fans tho........... I am a Miri fan, but that does not mean anything. Jacks romance was amazing and very well-done and it was the only romance that made me go holy **** durining.

[jtav]

I agree with Collider, kraidy. Look around. And what would it matter if it were true? We all have cliches that drive us crazy. Jack's romance hits one of my big one's, but I would happily take a red pen to Miranda's romance as well. None of the romances are perfect.

[kraidy1117]

jtav wrote...

I agree with Collider, kraidy. Look around. And what would it matter if it were true? We all have cliches that drive us crazy. Jack's romance hits one of my big one's, but I would happily take a red pen to Miranda's romance as well. None of the romances are perfect.

You missedt he whole point of Jacks romance then. It's not about love, it's to pick away at her barriers and show her that someone cares for you, no matter what she has done. Not to mention her coming into Shepards room in tears hits me everytime. Each romance is diffrent and appeals to diffrent things.

Garrus is realy about two good friends loving each other
Tali is about a shy girl having a crush on hero
Miri is all about getting a cold woman to care for you
Thane is all about declaring your feelings, knowing that he will die soon
Jack is all about showing her that someone cares for her

Jacob...... I don't have anything for him, sorry.

[MassAffected]

I don't think the Jack romance is very well done...with all of her issues it seems rushed. There is no way, in my opinion, that she would be able to work through all her trauma in order to sufficiently open up to another person. I'm surprised she is even able to function at all and not in a corner mumbling nothings. So, yeah, I think her trauma should be dialed down a bit. She would need a looong session with a shrink before she could even begin to deal with all her problems...no offense to Jack fans, this is just my blunt opinion.

[Steel Dancer]

MassAffected wrote...

I don't think the Jack romance is very well done...with all of her issues it seems rushed. There is no way, in my opinion, that she would be able to work through all her trauma in order to sufficiently open up to another person. I'm surprised she is even able to function at all and not in a corner mumbling nothings. So, yeah, I think her trauma should be dialed down a bit. She would need a looong session with a shrink before she could even begin to deal with all her problems...no offense to Jack fans, this is just my blunt opinion.

Now, to me, that just indicates she's actually capable of being a very strong person (albeit currently a majorly messed up one) who hasn't been around anyone who actually gave a damn about her before.

Everyone she's met before now has just been out for themselves (she does hint otherwise, but I have to wonder what her value scale is for that).

[kraidy1117]

Steel Dancer wrote...

MassAffected wrote...

I don't think the Jack romance is very well done...with all of her issues it seems rushed. There is no way, in my opinion, that she would be able to work through all her trauma in order to sufficiently open up to another person. I'm surprised she is even able to function at all and not in a corner mumbling nothings. So, yeah, I think her trauma should be dialed down a bit. She would need a looong session with a shrink before she could even begin to deal with all her problems...no offense to Jack fans, this is just my blunt opinion.

Now, to me, that just indicates she's actually capable of being a very strong person (albeit currently a majorly messed up one) who hasn't been around anyone who actually gave a damn about her before.

Everyone she's met before now has just been out for themselves (she does hint otherwise, but I have to wonder what her value scale is for that).

Only two people have cared for her and that one person died to make sure she is safe. Thats one of the big reasons why she push's people away. She does not want to have that happen again.

[Jackal904]

Collider wrote...

Kraidy...there have been Miranda fans in this thread that have disagreed with Jack's romance. Look around before you talk crap. The OP even IS a Miranda fan. I am very disappointed, Kraidy... :'(

What the hell does that have to do with anything? Think before you spew nonsense.

MassAffected wrote...

I don't think the Jack romance is very well done...with all of her issues it seems rushed. There is no way, in my opinion, that she would be able to work through all her trauma in order to sufficiently open up to another person. I'm surprised she is even able to function at all and not in a corner mumbling nothings. So, yeah, I think her trauma should be dialed down a bit. She would need a looong session with a shrink before she could even begin to deal with all her problems...no offense to Jack fans, this is just my blunt opinion.

Well then you don't know **** about her. Try talking to her before you make judgements. Jack is not freaking Hannibal Lecter. I don't understand why people actually think she is a psychopath. Do you even know what a psychopath is?

Her trauma was not overdone, and anyone who thinks she is an actual psychopath knows absolutely nothing about her and knows nothing about what a psychopath  really is. It blows my mind how dense and sheepish people are.

Modifié par Jackal904, 11 avril 2010 - 11:17 .

[Collider]

Jackal904 wrote...

Collider wrote...

Kraidy...there have been Miranda fans in this thread that have disagreed with Jack's romance. Look around before you talk crap. The OP even IS a Miranda fan. I am very disappointed, Kraidy... :'(

What the hell does that have to do with anything? Think before you spew nonsense.

Uh, if you read the post I was responding to, you would understand what I'm saying. NOTHING I said in the post you're quoting is wrong.

[Nyx]

Steel Dancer wrote...

MassAffected wrote...

I don't think the Jack romance is very well done...with all of her issues it seems rushed. There is no way, in my opinion, that she would be able to work through all her trauma in order to sufficiently open up to another person. I'm surprised she is even able to function at all and not in a corner mumbling nothings. So, yeah, I think her trauma should be dialed down a bit. She would need a looong session with a shrink before she could even begin to deal with all her problems...no offense to Jack fans, this is just my blunt opinion.

Now, to me, that just indicates she's actually capable of being a very strong person (albeit currently a majorly messed up one) who hasn't been around anyone who actually gave a damn about her before.

Everyone she's met before now has just been out for themselves (she does hint otherwise, but I have to wonder what her value scale is for that).

(Agreed with Steel Dancer.)

Jack's relationship is unquestionably a "your mileage may vary" trope. One wrong move, and you can easily send her packing in the other direction. Depending on how you play your Shepard, he's met enough crazy to at least deal with Jack's problems. He's made a career out of doing the impossible, as Thane phrases it, so another one shouldn't be that much of burden on Super-Robo Shep (and whether or not, he wants to is a different story). Taking that into consideration, I can see Jack slowly opening herself to world with the right kind of encouragement and support. She won't be the average girlfriend either -- a patient, resourceful and level-headed Shepard is strongly recommended.

So I think the type of relationship a Shepard is asking for will determine Jack's ability to open up. 

[Mondo47]

yfhfrg wrote...

MassAffected wrote...

I don't think the Jack romance is very well done...with all of her issues it seems rushed. There is no way, in my opinion, that she would be able to work through all her trauma in order to sufficiently open up to another person. I'm surprised she is even able to function at all and not in a corner mumbling nothings. So, yeah, I think her trauma should be dialed down a bit. She would need a looong session with a shrink before she could even begin to deal with all her problems...no offense to Jack fans, this is just my blunt opinion.

Just a couple thoughts: Jack has already been dealing with this pretty much her entire life. She's not just starting now, and a shrink isn't exactly a 'cure all' either. Far from it. Also, it's like the romance 'fixes' Jack. Indeed that's sort of the whole point. She just takes that one step in that direction. But she's still Jack, and she still has all those thoughts crawling around inside her head. Always will most likely.

This. Speaking from a little experience, some people simply cannot be helped with traditionally-structured psychiatric help. They can go to a shrink for years and never get any closer to a solution to their problems, and even if they do get some distance from whatever the problem is or its root causes, those things are always there. While the cure-all of love is a pretty massive and archaic cliche, it's conceivable that it could work for the character. And perhaps because it is such a cliche, it really forms a keystone to the relationship with Shep that instead of removing gravitas, adds it.

[Nightwriter]

I love Jack's character. I completely accept it for what it is. I have no doubts about whether the level of her trauma is realistic - I know damn well the world can get this bad for its children.

You can't fix all her problems with a few interactions, but Shepard as much as says this right out to her. His statement pretty much is, "I can't fix it all just like that, but that doesn't mean I'm going anywhere."

I find this sentiment quite realistic.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 12 avril 2010 - 12:47 .

[cynicalmicahel]

I really liked Jack's character. She seemed the most realistic out of them all to me. How else would you react if you went through all of the things someone like that went through.
What really took me for aloop was that she had the two romance options. The one where you re-enforce the casual sex, or one where you really show that you care and that you want to really be with her because you care. There was just something about that scene where her make up is running down her face (hey does that Sublime song kick into anyone else's head?).
The main thing is that to my eyes she is the most understandable character in terms of motovation. She was hurt by the world so now she is out to hurt the world in return and get as much as she can out of it in the process. Though the heavily tattooed emo chick thing was a bit contrived and tired. They really could have come out with another way of representing her visually. Though the shaved head really did it for me. Don't ask.

[implodinggoat]

I don't think it was overdone, I just don't think it was adequately resolved. I would have liked to see some dialogue where you can influence Jack to either...

Renegade: Fully embrace the power Cerberus gave her and forget her past. Or...

Paragon: Realize that so long as she remains the killer Cerberus conditioned her to be she is allowing Cerberus to dictate who she is and how she lives her life and that the only way she can be free is to stop accepting that she can only be what Cerberus made her become, take back control of her life and decide who she wants to be.

No Quick Fix.

I realize that fixing years of trauma with a few conversations is unrealistic; but that's not what I'm proposing. I don't think Shepard's influence could possibly solve her problems; but it could get her to stop accepting them and start towards solving them herself. No dramatic change of heart, just a realization that she has the will to become the woman she wants to be, not the woman she was made to be.

Of course if she decided to tone down the self rightous, blood lust crazed, **** routine a little, then I wouldn't object.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 12 avril 2010 - 01:18 .

[Nightwriter]

^ Oh, I agree Cynical. She's the most understandable to me by far, and I really loved how her romance could go down two paths. That's pretty unique, I think, two separate sex scenes depending on how you want to take it.



But I don't think the "emo" thing was a cliche. It's realistic, to me. And even if it was a cliche, it doesn't matter, cliche's are everywhere and unavoidable - what matters is it if it's well written and used well.

[jlb524]

implodinggoat wrote...

I realize that fixing years of trauma with a few conversations is unrealistic; but that's not what I'm proposing. I don't think Shepard's influence could possibly solve her problems; but it could get her to stop accepting them and start towards solving them herself. No dramatic change of heart, just a realization that she has the will to become the woman she wants to be, not the woman she was made to be.

I wanted to see something like this from Jack as well.  It's never made clear in the relationship that she has a change of realization about her past due to the events at the Cerberus facility (which, I feel, were a big turning point in her life).  It's been ahwile since I saw her romance, but the romantic dialogs consisted of one where she tells you she doesn't want a relationship, and another where she tells you about an old boyfriend.  From that, it jumps to the final scene.  The change seemed abrupt to me and her character development was lacking during the romance (i.e., all the potential with the Cerberus lab and her past with them was wasted).

I love her character as she is my favorite in ME2.  Her romance is just OK, but still better than the others in ME2, IMO.

[Nightwriter]

I wish there had been two separate paths in Miranda's romance, like with Jack's.



Her's always felt a bit more like a fling to me than the others - simply because of the way the romance scene plays out. A more serious path that triggered a more meaningful conversation leading up to that scene would've been cool for me.

[jlb524]

Nightwriter wrote...

I wish there had been two separate paths in Miranda's romance, like with Jack's.

Her's always felt a bit more like a fling to me than the others - simply because of the way the romance scene plays out. A more serious path that triggered a more meaningful conversation leading up to that scene would've been cool for me.

I thought the Miranda romance was fine until the love scene.  Miranda's love scene is almost as bad as Jacob's.  Yeah, I said it. 

I would have preferred something sweet and mushy with hers, similar to Garrus'.