119 réponses à ce sujet

[archurban]

why you are OMG? it's 'M' for mature rate. everything is possible. yeah, I want to see some damn kids, and more aliens females. (aliens not just asari (there is only female existed in Asari race no male). I want to see more violent environment.

[Nostradamoose]

This just remembered me of all the Dead babies jokes I've heard...





Ahhhhhh memories.

[GuardianAngel470]

Internet Kraken wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...

Collider wrote...

Seriously though, it's not worth the trouble. There is a stigma against having children killed, injured, or abused in video games. I think it's better left out.

This

Killing children just creates unnecessary controversy and, if you do it wrong, just leaves a bad taste in the players mouth. So unless you're killing off a character established in the plot, killing children just feels unnecessary and a pointless attempt to make the game feel darker.

Bioware could do it.  Hearing the wails of a mourning parent as you progress through a level would be like hearing the screams of terror and pain from the workers on Zorya as you left them to die.  It would leave you angry, at least it would leave me angry.

BioWare does a lot of things wrong and I bet dead children would be one of them. Besides, I refer you to my edit

Also, why do you need dead children to be motivated? Is watching your
crew get melted along with thousands of colonists to be turned into a
horrific metal abomination not good enough?

Overall, I don't see it as neccesary. I'd be pretty dissapointed if BioWare was putting children in their games just to kill them.

I was motivated to save Chakwas, but I hated Kelly almost enough to some of the crew die to kill her.  And the way they did that scene was a good example of why they could pull off dead children.  It would be like useless NPC chatter going on in the background.  And no, I wouldn't feel the urgency of the situation without some additional stimuli.  Horizon was very flat and I never felt sorry or angry for the colonists.  There was no attachment to them, they weren't my crew.  Faceless statistics in the words of Mordin.  Adding a wailing mother would add depth to a situation, much the same way the screaming people on Zorya added depth to the situation.  

[RenownedRyan]

Besides that, do you really think Shepard would kill children? I know this isn't the OP but many have said it. But personally, I have no interest in involving children in ME...what would they add except for annoying dialogue and at best a paragon action?

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

PTPR wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

 Ok, let me start of by saying I am not homicidal, I work within the bounds of the law.  I want to see dead children in ME3.  Many have said that their is a noticeable lack of children (and women) in the ME universe and that at least the latter is wanted.  I want to see dead children because if they did it right it would give me a reason to fight other than Self-preservation.  If I saw the bodies of a small family with children lying in front of a wall that was covered in blood I would be angry.  The next enemy I saw would know it too.  If I came to a colony that was under attack and I saw a woman crying while holding the head of her dead child (still attached) in her lap I would feel for her.  I'd dedicate my next firefight to her for the purpose of avenging that child.

In the immortal words of Grunt, "It makes me want to fight, not just able to."  I think it would add depth to an engagement beyond self-preservation.  An emotional reason to kill the bad guys that is tangible, real, and somewhat painful.  So please Bioware, put dead children in ME3.

Ol' Yeller and now children. You people are horrible!
Seriously: I don't know. It would make me more motivated but I doubt EA would allow it.

Lol at the fact that I bought this up in the Tali is doomed thread. I had a mini-discussion going on about it too with someone. As long as they are not going Elfen Lied, children in Mass Effect would not be an bad thing. Heck Bio-shock had little girls trying to kill you. There is numerous games with children in it. Even in the background, it would be very subtle.

like i said in the tali is doomed topic- I kindof expected children on horizon, perhaps frozen in place, hugged by a parent while trapped etc or perhaps in the cacoons. It would provide motionval to the player even more so, and fact that they  wouldn't be "harmed" or "injured" either. Just trapped etc. No need for paragon motions or anything as you would be sweeping the colony for collectors anyway.

Though heck, nothing like motovation like passing an group of mourning parents or parent. etc etc. There is many ways to get around this without involving graphic violence to the children, the mere presence of them resounds deep sub-conciously cause we know it's bad to hurt them.

Don't need to go Elfen Lied on them, heck their mere prescense in the game would just be nice considering we never see them at all. walking around Illium or heck, in the mall type area on the citadel, it's kindof absurd.

Modifié par Andrew_Waltfeld, 11 avril 2010 - 03:20 .

[Gavinthelocust]

Fox would flip out if this was even a rumor, if it was in the game imagine how fast the media will latch onto this and call Bioware baby killers. Sure it works to make the bad guys seem more like an **** and make you angry but in this day and age that probably warrants a AO rating and I know Bioware doesn't want that.

[GuardianAngel470]

Shadowrun1177 wrote...

This is one of those slipper slope's for developers. It could go either way for them, even if they do it respectfully and correctly it could still back fire on them. I mean DAO present's the option to kill or save a child and I can never bring myself to kill the child. I just don't know if BioWare is willing to take this kind of chance with Mass Effect 3 after all they haven't had any kids appear in the games so far. I think BioWare could do it and have it fit the story and be respectful I'm just not sure they should take the chance.

I'm not asking for that kind of choice.  Just picture walking around a colony and you find a mother with her dead child held in her lap, wailing.  Just the sound of her wailing that follows you as you progress through the level is what I want.  Just seeing something horrific like a family gunned down execution style in front of a building is what I want.  Something to get me emotionally engaged in the situation.

[GuardianAngel470]

Gavinthelocust wrote...

Fox would flip out if this was even a rumor, if it was in the game imagine how fast the media will latch onto this and call Bioware baby killers. Sure it works to make the bad guys seem more like an **** and make you angry but in this day and age that probably warrants a AO rating and I know Bioware doesn't want that.

If they did that then they would get their asses handed to them again on national television.  As it stands it seems like they learned their lesson several years ago.  And it doesn't warrant an AO rating, it is just like any other dead person, charred form that we see, only this time it is a child.  

[Internet Kraken]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...

Collider wrote...



Seriously though, it's not worth the trouble. There is a stigma against having children killed, injured, or abused in video games. I think it's better left out.

This



Killing children just creates unnecessary controversy and, if you do it wrong, just leaves a bad taste in the players mouth. So unless you're killing off a character established in the plot, killing children just feels unnecessary and a pointless attempt to make the game feel darker.

Bioware could do it. Hearing the wails of a mourning parent as you progress through a level would be like hearing the screams of terror and pain from the workers on Zorya as you left them to die. It would leave you angry, at least it would leave me angry.

BioWare does a lot of things wrong and I bet dead children would be one of them. Besides, I refer you to my edit

Also, why do you need dead children to be motivated? Is watching your

crew get melted along with thousands of colonists to be turned into a

horrific metal abomination not good enough?

Overall, I don't see it as neccesary. I'd be pretty dissapointed if BioWare was putting children in their games just to kill them.

I was motivated to save Chakwas, but I hated Kelly almost enough to some of the crew die to kill her. And the way they did that scene was a good example of why they could pull off dead children. It would be like useless NPC chatter going on in the background. And no, I wouldn't feel the urgency of the situation without some additional stimuli. Horizon was very flat and I never felt sorry or angry for the colonists. There was no attachment to them, they weren't my crew. Faceless statistics in the words of Mordin. Adding a wailing mother would add depth to a situation, much the same way the screaming people on Zorya added depth to the situation.

And why do we need children to be motivated? So seeing colonists getting abducted doesn't bother you? But then BioWare adds one kid and suddenly **** just got real? I don't get it. The entire galaxy is at stake. That's enough motivation for me. We don't need BioWare botching the whole thing by screwing up child death. It's an unnecessary attempt to make the game feel darker.

[KingOfDooming]

How about instead of having dead children just have one ask your character "Are you going to stop the bad men?"

[Collider]

Kraken has a good point. While children may be motivating to some, the fact that thousands of innocent people are being abducted and turned into paste should be enough to motivate you against the Collectors.

[Internet Kraken]

Gavinthelocust wrote...

Fox would flip out if this was even a rumor, if it was in the game imagine how fast the media will latch onto this and call Bioware baby killers. Sure it works to make the bad guys seem more like an **** and make you angry but in this day and age that probably warrants a AO rating and I know Bioware doesn't want that.

Honestly I don't think the media would care that much. Sex in video games provokes a much bigger reaction than violence, and even reactions to that are starting to die down.

KingOfDooming wrote...

How about instead of having dead children just have one ask your character "Are you going to stop the bad men?"

I hate lines like that. Children are not idiots. Referring to the Collectors as "bad men" does not suggest innocence, it suggests stupidity.

Modifié par Internet Kraken, 11 avril 2010 - 03:25 .

[Slayer299]

I really can't see that being put in by Bioware, either the death of (by your hand) or even seeing something with children being 'gunned down execution style' as you've suggested. I remember the outrage Lord British got from the room he put in Castle Britannia in Ultima IV, where a gaggle of children attacked you. But as said, I can't see Bioware taking that sort of direction just to 'emotionally engage' players...

[Gavinthelocust]

KingOfDooming wrote...

How about instead of having dead children just have one ask your character "Are you going to stop the bad men?"

But then they'll put that in the trailer like every other movie/game with that line in it. 

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

Gavinthelocust wrote...

Fox would flip out if this was even a rumor, if it was in the game imagine how fast the media will latch onto this and call Bioware baby killers. Sure it works to make the bad guys seem more like an **** and make you angry but in this day and age that probably warrants a AO rating and I know Bioware doesn't want that.

Who listens to Fox? And Seriously? Numerous games have gotten mature rating only with this type of stuff. If Mass Effect got an higher rating then the raters are pulling an BS on bioware considering the nature of plenty of other games on the market or have been previously released.

Modern Wafare 2 had you slaughtering dozens of people in an airport. There was an option to bypass it but still, you could do it.


Bio-shock has them.

Fallout three as someone has mentioned has them. This is by far nothing new.

[GuardianAngel470]

RenownedRyan wrote...

Besides that, do you really think Shepard would kill children? I know this isn't the OP but many have said it. But personally, I have no interest in involving children in ME...what would they add except for annoying dialogue and at best a paragon action?

I'm not asking for dialog with children, I thought it was out of place in Fallout 3.  I'm also not asking for a paragon action, just something passive.  Something the player sees but can't change. 

[Shadowrun1177]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Shadowrun1177 wrote...

This is one of those slipper slope's for developers. It could go either way for them, even if they do it respectfully and correctly it could still back fire on them. I mean DAO present's the option to kill or save a child and I can never bring myself to kill the child. I just don't know if BioWare is willing to take this kind of chance with Mass Effect 3 after all they haven't had any kids appear in the games so far. I think BioWare could do it and have it fit the story and be respectful I'm just not sure they should take the chance.

I'm not asking for that kind of choice.  Just picture walking around a colony and you find a mother with her dead child held in her lap, wailing.  Just the sound of her wailing that follows you as you progress through the level is what I want.  Just seeing something horrific like a family gunned down execution style in front of a building is what I want.  Something to get me emotionally engaged in the situation.

Oh I know I was just pointing out that BioWare has already taken the risk with DAO and having kids in there and having them die/killed. Like was said by someone else thought Mass Effect won't even show limb's being blown off (unless you want to count the mechs in Mass Effect 2) and DAO will so BioWare may be trying to stick with a less viseral and gory game in the Mass Effect IP.

[GuardianAngel470]

Gavinthelocust wrote...

KingOfDooming wrote...

How about instead of having dead children just have one ask your character "Are you going to stop the bad men?"

But then they'll put that in the trailer like every other movie/game with that line in it. 

Having this dialog would be cheesy and cliche.  Lots of people do this and I never like it.  It just feels so fake. 

[RenownedRyan]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

If they did that then they would get their asses handed to them again on national television.  As it stands it seems like they learned their lesson several years ago.  And it doesn't warrant an AO rating, it is just like any other dead person, charred form that we see, only this time it is a child.  

Except that in this case Fox News would actually have a case, not just be making radical accusations.  Besides that, you really consider a child the same as any other dead body?  I mean, if this is the case why would it help to make you more motivated?  The bottom line is this.  Dead children are different.  Children are helpless of defending themselves.  This is the reason for the problem with creating them.  It really takes nothing from the game besides realism.  Children added nothing to games like Dragon Age, Fallout, and I never even have kids in the Sims.  

[GuardianAngel470]

Shadowrun1177 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Shadowrun1177 wrote...

This is one of those slipper slope's for developers. It could go either way for them, even if they do it respectfully and correctly it could still back fire on them. I mean DAO present's the option to kill or save a child and I can never bring myself to kill the child. I just don't know if BioWare is willing to take this kind of chance with Mass Effect 3 after all they haven't had any kids appear in the games so far. I think BioWare could do it and have it fit the story and be respectful I'm just not sure they should take the chance.

I'm not asking for that kind of choice.  Just picture walking around a colony and you find a mother with her dead child held in her lap, wailing.  Just the sound of her wailing that follows you as you progress through the level is what I want.  Just seeing something horrific like a family gunned down execution style in front of a building is what I want.  Something to get me emotionally engaged in the situation.

Oh I know I was just pointing out that BioWare has already taken the risk with DAO and having kids in there and having them die/killed. Like was said by someone else thought Mass Effect won't even show limb's being blown off (unless you want to count the mechs in Mass Effect 2) and DAO will so BioWare may be trying to stick with a less viseral and gory game in the Mass Effect IP.

I'm not asking for more gore, I like how it is now.  Maybe tweak the color of the blood, but that is the only change I can think of.  

[Sajuro]

They would have to be careful about it, even showing dead children would get Fox News and family groups frothing at the mouth. My suggestion would be to show a cut scene before the mission with children playing in a house and then the attack. They could show the enemies bursting in and pulling a firing squad on the occupants of the house. It would be diminished impact, but showing dead children would definitely rocket the killer to complete monster status.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Meh, I think people are both over and under estimating the impact that a dead child could have on the player. I feel like a dead child affects the player because it's refreshing, as perverted as that sounds. We're so used to seeing generic npc #3,763 come screaming for Shepard's help for all kinds of reasons, so the audience has become dulled to the impact. A dead child is farther from our comfort zone than most of us would like, so it has more impact.

At the same time, I see this more as a request for "more emotional depth" from npcs. Dead children are not the only way to make the player feel a sense of loss or responsibility; it's just that more effort/thought is needed for npcs to be done right.  I feel like using dead children is taking the 'easy way' out to this issue: more impact, with less effort.  

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 11 avril 2010 - 03:33 .

[GuardianAngel470]

RenownedRyan wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

If they did that then they would get their asses handed to them again on national television.  As it stands it seems like they learned their lesson several years ago.  And it doesn't warrant an AO rating, it is just like any other dead person, charred form that we see, only this time it is a child.  

Except that in this case Fox News would actually have a case, not just be making radical accusations.  Besides that, you really consider a child the same as any other dead body?  I mean, if this is the case why would it help to make you more motivated?  The bottom line is this.  Dead children are different.  Children are helpless of defending themselves.  This is the reason for the problem with creating them.  It really takes nothing from the game besides realism.  Children added nothing to games like Dragon Age, Fallout, and I never even have kids in the Sims.  

From a moral standpoint, dead children are different, but from a ratings standpoint, I can't see them changing the rating over a few child sized corpses.  Not when plenty of M rated games have you actually killing children, like Bioshock and Dead Space.  I obviously know that dead children are different or else I wouldn't be calling for it to motivate the player.  But I just can't see ME3 being AO just because it has some dramatic instances of dead children, I just can't.