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Zaeed in the Collector Base (Spoilers)


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#101
FlyingBrickyard

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IoCaster wrote...

The funny stuff is how so many people are rationalizing why Zaeed is not qualified to lead the 2nd team based on their own assumptions. The reality is that BioWare decided which characters would fill that role. That's all there is to it. Based on the facts presented in the game Zaeed is qualified for the role. It's a very simple mission and he got the job done. He lead his team to the rendezvous with no losses. Any other character that you choose will do the same. The tech dies after the fact when Shepard is on the scene and in command. It's a gameplay mechanic and all of this speculation about Zaeed being a solitary merc or too selfish or whatever is meaningless.

If you choose a non-loyal Jacob, Miranda or Garrus to lead the 2nd team the tech dies as well. Are they suddenly unqualified to lead now? Or are they so unprofessional that they let themselves be distracted by daddy, sis or revenge issues? It's a simple gameplay mechanic and BioWare chose to have it play out that way for their own reasons.

Now don't get me wrong because I enjoyed the mission and the overall game, but I recognize it for what it is. If some of you folks have gotten so immersed and invested in the story that it makes sense to you then be happy and have fun. At the same time do try to understand that some of us are not as immersed and have a tough time believing the setup to some of these events. It's just a video game, it doesn't have to make sense and it's still fun for me.

:happy:



Your logic and rationalization is flawed, however.  To be successful, you need someone in that position who is both qualified to lead and fully focused on the task at hand (ie, loyal).

Zaeed is not qualified to lead the team, even if he's focused and trying his best.  He's just not leadership material, and that's why the tech dies.  It was Zaeed's job to make sure the fire team extracted themselves properly, and he failed at that job, which allowed the Collectors a break to return fire and take out the tech that was trying to close the door.

That it happened at the very last moment doesn't mean Zaeed did his job successfully.  He almost did, but unfortunately failed at the very last moment.

If anything, you're assuming more than anyone else, because there are mountains of evidence in the game that flat out tell you "Zaeed is not a good leader if squad survival is important."  You seem to want to ignore that because you seem determined that Zaeed is good at the job, therefore it's simply a game mechanic, when most players and Bioware themselves disagree with your assessment for all of the same reasons.

Technically, yes, it is a game mechanic.  Just as sending Grunt through the tunnels as your tech and failing would be a game mechanic.  They're game mechanics, yes, but with reason.  Grunt's not a tech, and Zaeed isn't a good leader.  That's why they fail.  It isn't some arbitrary whim of Bioware, it's because it's that's who those characters are, fundamentally.  Wishing them into that mould isn't going to make them suddenly fit, they just don't have the personalities or skills for it.

I would agree to some extent that a tech death would ultimately fall on Shepard's shoulders however, since he's the ultimate leader of the entire group and if he picks someone who isn't a good leader to lead the fire team (like Zaeed), that means Shepard has failed as a good leader be cause he failed to correctly identify and assign roles based on the strengths of his crew.

Using Grunt as your tech is a bad idea.  It's a lot more obviously bad than picking Zaeed as leader of the fire team, but both choices would be a failure of command on Shepard's part and fall under the general category of "bad decison" because neither are qualified for those jobs.

Modifié par FlyingBrickyard, 12 avril 2010 - 01:45 .


#102
RyuGuitarFreak

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ECAEL = lols :lol:

#103
_Garrus Vakarian

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Feixeno wrote...

I'd like Vakarian's thoughts on Zaeed as squad leader.

Personally, I think Zaeed could lead the suicide mission, it's just he'd "Make out like a guddam bandit" with everyone else dead.

He would have left 12 good men and women behind for nothing. Shows you what kind of mercenaries those Blue Suns are -- they couldn't even handle running a prison. What a shame.

We don't need a traitor on our team. Half of us don't even trust him.


#104
Onyx Jaguar

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Garrus Vakarian.

#105
Vascillia

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Not a legitimate Garrus post, as calibrations are no where to be seen.

#106
_Garrus Vakarian

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Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Garrus Vakarian.

It wasn't easy. I really had to work at it.

#107
_Garrus Vakarian

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Vascillia wrote...

Not a legitimate Garrus post, as calibrations are no where to be seen.

Can it wait for a bit? I'm in the middle of some salutations.

#108
StefanBW

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Garrus can I have a higher resolution picture of your avatar? Great shot.

#109
binaryemperor

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@ OP



Yeah, I was thinking about picking him for one of the leaders, I remembered though, his fond stories about how all the fire teams he's ever led ended up dead.

#110
Azint

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Garrus Vakarian wrote...

Vascillia wrote...

Not a legitimate Garrus post, as calibrations are no where to be seen.

Can it wait for a bit? I'm in the middle of some salutations.

Someone is going to have to take some initiative.

#111
Number30Six

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EDIT: Damn this thread moves fast!

Modifié par Number30Six, 12 avril 2010 - 01:59 .


#112
FlyingBrickyard

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Vascillia wrote...

Not a legitimate Garrus post, as calibrations are no where to be seen.


On my second playthrough today when I went down to talk to Garrus after Kelly told me I should go see him, I  found myself wishing I had the option to say "Can it wait for a bit? I'm in the middle of some calibrations" when he asked if I could talk. Image IPB

I will say I find it somewhat odd that you need to run through loyalty missions for your ME1 crewmates, but I usually chalk that up to the point of the mission being "remove all outside distractions for the character" rather than gaining trust and loyalty specifically in those cases.

Modifié par FlyingBrickyard, 12 avril 2010 - 02:01 .


#113
Number30Six

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Where's Jack, get Jack in here, we need more swearing.

#114
binaryemperor

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just curious... How long have the ME2 Cast been on the forums? I need Garrus on my friends list.

#115
Onyx Jaguar

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I want to go around collecting ME2 cast members on my list.



Gotta catch em all

#116
Vascillia

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FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHY ARE YOU GUYS PLAYING AROUND ON EXTRANET BOARDS, WE HAVE A HUMANITY TO SAVE.
EDI, CUT THE EXTRANET NOW.

#117
Onyx Jaguar

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Vascillia wrote...

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHY ARE YOU GUYS PLAYING AROUND ON EXTRANET BOARDS, WE HAVE A HUMANITY TO SAVE.
EDI, CUT THE EXTRANET NOW.


Humanity is at war.  The Collectors have been abducting Human Colonies and the Alliance will not do anything about it.

#118
_Garrus Vakarian

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stefanbw wrote...

Garrus can I have a higher resolution picture of your avatar? Great shot.

A compressed JPEG of a picture that blurs Turians. Why don't we ever get anything nice?

Image IPB

#119
Vascillia

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Garrus Vakarian wrote...

stefanbw wrote...

Garrus can I have a higher resolution picture of your avatar? Great shot.

A compressed JPEG of a picture that blurs Turians. Why don't we ever get anything nice?

Image IPB


Speaking of pictures of Turians, Kasumi brought me this wonderful piece last week. I'm not sure what to make of it other than someone, somewhere really had to work hard at it. 


Image IPB

Modifié par Vascillia, 12 avril 2010 - 02:21 .


#120
DirtyVagrant

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I suppose we should expect Tali'Zorah, Ashley, and Wrex handles next... unless I missed those... maybe Anderson and Udina too?

#121
Drake Lake

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DirtyVagrant wrote...

I suppose we should expect Tali'Zorah, Ashley, and Wrex handles next... unless I missed those... maybe Anderson and Udina too?


Well, about Ashley... Kaiden kinda commented so... what does that tell you? But then again so did Morinth so who knows.

Modifié par Drake Lake, 12 avril 2010 - 02:39 .


#122
Onyx Jaguar

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I've seen someone comment as Gunnery Chief Williams

#123
DirtyVagrant

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Oh and an Illusive Man handle too... and Kelly Chambers... man, Ecael is gunna be busy.

#124
RyuGuitarFreak

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I bet Udina would be outraged.

#125
Speakeasy13

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First of all, Zaeed cares. A LOT. He probably cares about the mission more than most of the people on your ship. He expressed this via his in-game dialogues.

That said, just cause he cares doesn't mean he'd make a SAFE leader. He is an adrenaline rush seeker. He tends to go for high-risk, low-survival odds mission impossibles. You may say "so what so does Shep" but Shep has always been backed by the entire alliance, and Zaeed on his own. To him dying is part of the stakes, and that makes it more fun.

The only reason why Zaeed survived longer than his mates is not cuz he doesn't care or if he's bad at leading his team, but that he is so damn good at his job, better than almost every1 else.

Modifié par Speakeasy13, 12 avril 2010 - 02:58 .