150 réponses à ce sujet

[CptPatch]

joey_mork84 wrote...

CptPatch wrote...

Well, even in other countries they have these things called "Search Engines". Plug in "BioWare Bazaar" and learn all the details. Which many non-Americans were actually bright enough to do.

Already did that at the beginning of this abomination and (surprise, surprise) I'M AMERICAN. Wanna try again?

??? Your logic eludes me.  Because you, as an American could utilize Searches to learn details about the Bazaar exclusions, it means that others abroad didn't/couldn't do likewise?  At least, that seems to be what you're implying.

My point was that not just BW social network foreigners were able to pick up on what was going down.  I doubt that BW will ever confirm it, but besides the obvious spike in American sign ups (for new people wanting to participate in the auction) there was also a spike in non-US sign ups as well as people catching spam on other forums came to get a closer look at the circus.  Then there were those that did NOT join the social network, but still looked for answers to "what's this all about then?"  It wasn't _only_ non-US  BW social network members that were aware of the Bazaar.  It was LOT of others as well.

[Stippling]

People need to stop assuming they're entitled to anything and everything. If anything, that is what we American's are guilty of. This event was clearly labeled with rules and regulations. You knew the name of the game was link referrals, you knew the odds, you knew there would be a high volume of people participating.

And those who put there bare minimum into it got nothing in return. I registered all my games, participated in every contest, and got as many referal clicks as I could, both from my friends/family and from fellow community members. I put a lot of time into this contest and it paid off. Did the contest make a lot of sour grapes and disappointed people? Yes. Did it achieve what it intended and provide a fun experience for some members to enjoy? Absolutely.

The system may not have been perfect but that was very evident from the moment they announced it. Read and adapt, and you'll win in the future. Don't just sit back and complain that you're going to lose without actually getting your hands dirty and trying.

Crixt wrote:
The only way that bioware really screwed up here is by only having
412 auctions instead of, say, 1500, and increasing the length of the
contest / shorter length per auction.  This would have fixed almost
every problem.

This I agree with almost completely. Make each auction an individual prize would have left the high bidders with their grande reward and everyone else could have had a small treat. Other than that, I think the event worked exactly as intended.

Modifié par Stippling, 12 avril 2010 - 06:19 .

[monochrome2]

CptPatch wrote...

Here's the findings of my mining expedition through most of the Bazaar's data.  I pretty much guarantee that you will either love it, or hate it, with very few left in between.  Because of it's length, the full article is posted at HookedGamers.com

Epic Event, or Epic Fail?



If you are one of those people that thinks BioWare is the greatest thing
since sliced bread and should not be criticized for anything,
run -- don't walk to the nearest exit. Though there are some Good
Things here, there's also some Bad. Those of you that remain, I leave
it to you as to which side of the balance is weighed down more. Also,
if what you read here prompts you to voluminous commentary, I'll post
this article in its own thread in the forums. That way you can comment
at length without any sensation of claustrophobia imbued by that tiny
Comment box.

http://www.hookedgamers.com/

I agree that the contest was not ran as well as it should have been even
though I did win a prize. I hated spamming but I did it. Is it
because I am an ugly American? I think not, as Bioware is Canadian and
their contest rules are what caused the spamming in fact that was the
entire point of that part of the contest was to SPAM,SPAM,SPAM.

As
has been mentioned by others captain hypocrite has his article
published on a click me click me site for paid ads and continues to spam
these forums with his link. The difference is that he is PAID to do it
and maybe that is the irritation? That some people will do for free what
you do for money? It also makes at least a few of your points less
valid when you are guilty of them yourself, the old do as I say not as I
do doesn’t work with children and it doesn’t work with adults.

Last
but not least Captain Patch has at least 2 points of incorrect logic in
his article.

1.) How would multiple email addresses help? Sure
you can get the free quiz points without registering your games and you
can get the referral link points but you also needed to twitter points
to win which means each bogus email account would also need a bogus
twitter account. If people are willing to go to that much effort to win
while you don’t want to participate what is the problem? If you don’t
want to fully participate in something why are you surprised when you
are beaten by people that are willing to?



2.) Insinuating
that you are less of a fan because you don’t have multiple registered
copies of games is ridiculous. First bioware allows you to only have
ME2,DAO and DAO Awakenings right now under your registered profile. You
could still have Baldurs Gate ,ME1, Jade Empire, KOTOR and everyother
bioware game and have 0 under your registered games so this is an
absolutely useless statistic.

[joey_mork84]

CptPatch wrote...

joey_mork84 wrote...

CptPatch wrote...

Well, even in other countries they have these things called "Search Engines". Plug in "BioWare Bazaar" and learn all the details. Which many non-Americans were actually bright enough to do.

Already did that at the beginning of this abomination and (surprise, surprise) I'M AMERICAN. Wanna try again?

??? Your logic eludes me.  Because you, as an American could utilize Searches to learn details about the Bazaar exclusions, it means that others abroad didn't/couldn't do likewise?  At least, that seems to be what you're implying.

My point was that not just BW social network foreigners were able to pick up on what was going down.  I doubt that BW will ever confirm it, but besides the obvious spike in American sign ups (for new people wanting to participate in the auction) there was also a spike in non-US sign ups as well as people catching spam on other forums came to get a closer look at the circus.  Then there were those that did NOT join the social network, but still looked for answers to "what's this all about then?"  It wasn't _only_ non-US  BW social network members that were aware of the Bazaar.  It was LOT of others as well.

That was in response to you continuing to say that Americans are stupid. Maybe while reading my post, you confirmed your suspisions, but you shouldn't compare the rest of the country based on your own intelligence.

I took the liberty of highlighting this mistake in your first post.

Do I need to make it any clearer?

Modifié par joey_mork84, 12 avril 2010 - 06:26 .

[fangedwolf]

*gets out his fire extinguisher out and threatens to spray on some of the forum thread*



Bioware did announce very quickly after the Bazaar was started that there would be other events that would be open to other parts of the world that could not take part in this one:

Hi everyone



The BioWare Bazaar was launched this week as the start of a year-long celebration around BioWare’s 15th anniversary.



We recognize that BioWare has a global community, and the Bazaar this week was originally intended to be an international event to reflect our truly global fanbase. Unfortunately, we encountered some last-minute legal complications around how contests can be structured in different parts of the world that prevented us from including all territories in this first event, even though that was our original goal. And for that, we sincerely apologize – our goal with this sort of celebration is to show all our fans worldwide how much we appreciate your support!



BioWare definitely really values all members of our world-wide Community, no matter where you live. Accordingly, in the coming weeks, we will be announcing details about future events specifically for fans living in those territories which were excluded from participating in the first BioWare Bazaar. The future events will be a bit different from the first Bazaar in how they’re set up and structured, but our goal is to feature the same caliber of awesome prizes and great BioWare collectibles. We’ll announce more details in the coming weeks.



The reception from those fans who have been able to take part in this first event has been incredible – thank you for participating! – and we’re looking forward to future events where we can enable fans from additional territories to also join in the fun.



Thank you all for your continued and ongoing support and participation in the BioWare Community – we really appreciate all your support over the past 15 years, and the future will be even brighter!



Sincerely,



Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk

Co-founders, BioWare

I agree with one of the other posters, that it is likely that it is Bioware or just gamers that are going to be given a bad name rather than merely those from America, and this will be especially true if there are similar ones in other countries.



Even if the problems were spotted in advance, I do see that creating different separate events (rather than one large one) is a better and less legally difficult way of sorting the problem. I don't like the way that they have used clicking and twitter as a way to do this event because it has ended up more to do with their revenue from the website clicking rather than the community.



Bioware I don't really think are the culprits for this, and I think it is maybe wrong to lob all the guilt upon them for this contest, when I think its far more likely that EA or their marketing department strong-armed them into it.



Either way the contest has been done that way, and Bioware has got a lot of flack for it. I think it could have been done in a better, fairer way, but it is clear that whomever is responsible for the contest wanted there to be a lot of clicks to the site and this was their way of doing so (and why I do not think Bioware is necessarily the culprit, since that is more a marketing theme).



Let's not be at each other's throats now please.

[SomebodyNowhere]

I came into this with hopes to walk out with 1 game from a company I've admired, but lacked the funds to support lately. I got lucky that I was able to get a collection of games that will likely keep me very well occupied and happy for hundreds of hours.

I knew as a person that joined on the 29th and has no games registered that I would need to pour myself into the community as best I could if just to gain a shred of credibility and I think my time in the auction thread garnered me enough.

I had limits I would not cross when it came to aquiring points(no twitter, no signing up to random forums in an effort to spam my URL, etc), I don't regret the things I did to win.

And from a business standpoint, provided my cashflow issues improve, I can see no reason why I wouldn't be MORE inclined to buy DLC or future titles after this. Don't you think that was part of Bioware's plan? An item like the Jade Empire pack was clearly ment as a way to help bring a person up to date and I greatly appreciate it.

I know with the wide dividing line between the people that won and those that didn't that my side is in the minority, but I just ask that you allow things to calm down so that the forum can get back to bringing the fans of this company together instead of constantly reminding them why they should be at eachother's throats.

[fangedwolf]

Hmm, interesting point SomebodyNowhere, and not one I really considered before.
I am dubious as to how much positive vs negative effect the Bazaar has had, but no doubt you are right since  Bioware/EA marketing department would have oked the thing first. I suppose we will just have to wait for their annual report to get published to see the full extent of how well or poorly it has affected their revenue.

Modifié par fangedwolf, 12 avril 2010 - 07:00 .

[SomebodyNowhere]

I know both posts were done at the same time so I think it is funny that they both ended with basically the same statement about not being at eachother's throats

[joey_mork84]

I tried to be calm about it, but its hard to when an article or thread post ends the way that one did. Completely unnecessary.. But you do raise some good points, Somebody..

[CptPatch]

joey_mork84 wrote...

CptPatch wrote...
Well, even in other countries they have these things called "Search Engines". Plug in "BioWare Bazaar" and learn all the details. Which many non-Americans were actually bright enough to do.

Already did that at the beginning of this abomination and (surprise, surprise) I'M AMERICAN. Wanna try again?

CptPatch wrote...
??? Your logic eludes me.  Because you, as an American could utilize Searches to learn details about the Bazaar exclusions, it means that others abroad didn't/couldn't do likewise?  At least, that seems to be what you're implying.

My point was that not just BW social network foreigners were able to pick up on what was going down.  I doubt that BW will ever confirm it, but besides the obvious spike in American sign ups (for new people wanting to participate in the auction) there was also a spike in non-US sign ups as well as people catching spam on other forums came to get a closer look at the circus.  Then there were those that did NOT join the social network, but still looked for answers to "what's this all about then?"  It wasn't _only_ non-US  BW social network members that were aware of the Bazaar.  It was LOT of others as well.

joey_mork84 wrote...
That was in response to you continuing to say that Americans are stupid. Maybe while reading my post, you confirmed your suspisions, but you shouldn't compare the rest of the country based on your own intelligence.

I took the liberty of highlighting this mistake in your first post.

Do I need to make it any clearer?

Ahem.  If you go back far enough, you will note Crixt saying, " Nobody outside the bioware community that was bothered by spam would
have cared enough to look into the contest in detail enough to find out
that it was a contest open to Americans."  THAT is to what I was directing my "Which many non-Americans were actually bright enough to do" comment to. 

NOWHERE do I describe Americans as being intrinsically stupid; that was your own derivative.  And if you read everything I have written (keep some PeptoBismo handy) you will note that I never said that Americans are greedy, selfish, and childish.  My stipulation was and still is that that is how many non-Americans perceive us.  In an actual similar survey, one of the adhectives provided by the majority of survey respondents was "rich".  Do you think _that_ adjective applies? 

Given the emails I've been getting from abroad since the auctions started, quite a few non-Americans have complained about Cazaar spam showing up on their  forums (no matter where those forums may _actually_ have their servers).  Is it fair of them to make such sweeping generalizations, based on the spamming activities of just a few over-eager Bazaar participants?  No, but it _is_ what happens.  And _that_ is what I was saying: Because of the spamming and over-the-top begging by a few Bazaar participants, quite a few non-Americans have jumped to the conclusion that that behavior is a common American trait.  The fact that the rules themselves motivated such behavior is pointedly contributory, but the rules did NOT make them go that far overboard.  As many of you actually did, they could have restrained themselves.  But they didn't, and because of them, we ALL catch some of that negative PR.

Modifié par CptPatch, 12 avril 2010 - 07:41 .

[joey_mork84]

I'm not talking about what Crixt said. I'm talking about the end of the article posted in your OP, as were many others before me. "And the ugly (American)", I believe is what the section was titled. Reread that, then go back and read my posts.

[ice445]

[quote]CptPatch wrote...

[quote]joey_mork84 wrote...
[quote]CptPatch wrote...

Well, even in other countries they have these things called "Search Engines". Plug in "BioWare Bazaar" and learn all the details. Which many non-Americans were actually bright enough to do.
[/quote]

Already did that at the beginning of this abomination and (surprise, surprise) I'M AMERICAN. Wanna try again?
[/quote]
??? Your logic eludes me.  Because you, as an American could utilize Searches to learn details about the Bazaar exclusions, it means that others abroad didn't/couldn't do likewise?  At least, that seems to be what you're implying.

My point was that not just BW social network foreigners were able to pick up on what was going down.  I doubt that BW will ever confirm it, but besides the obvious spike in American sign ups (for new people wanting to participate in the auction) there was also a spike in non-US sign ups as well as people catching spam on other forums came to get a closer look at the circus.  Then there were those that did NOT join the social network, but still looked for answers to "what's this all about then?"  It wasn't _only_ non-US  BW social network members that were aware of the Bazaar.  It was LOT of others as well.

[/quote]

That was in response to you continuing to say that Americans are stupid. Maybe while reading my post, you confirmed your suspisions, but you shouldn't compare the rest of the country based on your own intelligence.

I took the liberty of highlighting this mistake in your first post.

Do I need to make it any clearer?[/quote]

Ahem.  If you go back far enough, you will note Crixt saying, " Nobody outside the bioware community that was bothered by spam would
have cared enough to look into the contest in detail enough to find out
that it was a contest open to Americans."  THAT is to what I was directing my "Which many non-Americans were actually bright enough to do" comment to. 

NOWHERE do I describe Americans as being intrinsically stupid; that was your own derivative.  And if you read everything I have written (keep some PeptoBismo handy) you will note that I never said that Americans are greedy, selfish, and childish.  My stipulation was and still is that that is how many non-Americans perceive us.  In an actual similar survey, one of the adhectives provided by the majority of survey respondents was "rich".  Do you think _that_ adjective applies? 

Given the emails I've been getting from abroad since the auctions started, quite a few non-Americans have complained about Cazaar spam showing up on their  forums (no matter where those forums may _actually_ have their servers).  Is it fair of them to make such sweeping generalizations, based on the spamming activities of just a few over-eager Bazaar participants?  No, but it _is_ what happens.  And _that_ is what I was saying: Because of the spamming and over-the-top begging by a few Bazaar participants, quite a few non-Americans have jumped to the conclusion that that behavior is a common American trait.  The fact that the rules themselves motivated such behavior is pointedly contributory, but the rules did NOT make them go that far overboard.  As many of you actually did, they could have restrained themselves.  But they didn't, and because of them, we ALL catch some of that negative PR.

[/quote]

The problem with your logic that this contest gave Americans a bad name is the fact that you're giving way too much credit to everyday internet users. It's pretty unlikely that even 1/100th of the people affected by the link spam actually knew what it was for and that it was an American only contest. It's pretty ridiculous to think this has had even the slightest impact on our international standing, which by the way doesn't matter anyway.

[Crixt]

No matter how many good points were made in that article, your obvious anti-American slant at the end of the article will completely demolish the article's credibility.

[Crixt]

ice445 wrote...problem with your logic that this contest gave Americans a bad name is the fact that you're giving way too much credit to everyday internet users. It's pretty unlikely that even 1/100th of the people affected by the link spam actually knew what it was for and that it was an American only contest. It's pretty ridiculous to think this has had even the slightest impact on our international standing, which by the way doesn't matter anyway.

Also, to the point, this.

[joey_mork84]

All Dead wrote...

There are definitely a lot of mentally-challenged Americans. But we don't really think of them as Americans. Instead we call them Tea Partiers.

Would be best to not bring politics into this. Especially with comments like that.

[joey_mork84]

Crixt wrote...

No matter how many good points were made in that article, your obvious anti-American slant at the end of the article will completely demolish the article's credibility.

This was my original point, but he missed it entirely. I'm willing to bet he misses it again.

[Crixt]

All Dead wrote...

There are definitely a lot of mentally-challenged Americans. But we don't really think of them as Americans. Instead we call them Tea Partiers.

This is not a forum for politics.
Edit:  Wrote something political back (quoted below) but decided I'd rather not make this more than it deserves to be, edited it out.

Modifié par Crixt, 12 avril 2010 - 07:54 .

[joey_mork84]

Crixt wrote...

All Dead wrote...

There are definitely a lot of mentally-challenged Americans. But we don't really think of them as Americans. Instead we call them Tea Partiers.

Liberals will stop at nothing to take every single thing done by the
right, and turn it into "racism."  You should really rethink who you
consider the mentally-challenged parties in this equation.  (Large
exception:  Sarah Palin is dumb)

Either way, this is not a forum
for politics.


This is not a forum for politics.

My point exactly.

[CptPatch]

joey_mork84 wrote...

I'm not talking about what Crixt said. I'm talking about the end of the article posted in your OP, as were many others before me. "And the ugly (American)", I believe is what the section was titled. Reread that, then go back and read my posts.

I believe this is the specific line that you find objectionable:
"I have a strong feeling that if a survey was conducted outside of the US
that had but one single item -- "List ten adjectives that describe the
typical American" -- that in the overwhelming majority of responses you
would find the words "greedy", "selfish", and "childish". "

Does this specifically say that _I_ believe that the typical American is greedy, selfish, and childish?  No, it does not.  I _am_ saying that I fear that many non-Americans will hold that opinion, and I go on to point out that it is the behavior of the over-the-top click-maniacs that is what those non-Americans were seeing.  And is because of the reward incentive that BW built into the rules that steered those participants in that direction in the first place.  But as so many of you have clearly demonstrated, there was no need for those maniacs to go that route; doing so was _their_ choice.  They may rationalize that "It was the rules that made me do it!", but you folks are clear proof that that is a weak excuse.

If this event was IN FACT a reward for fan loyalty, it would have been soooooooooooo much better if they simply did raffles.  Figure the 5950 lid for chances, based on your own demonstrated support of BW and participation in the community and go with that.  Would _that_ have been something nearly all of us could have lived with?  With the fringe benefit of NO bad PR.

[Crixt]

CptPatch wrote...

joey_mork84 wrote...

I'm not talking about what Crixt said. I'm talking about the end of the article posted in your OP, as were many others before me. "And the ugly (American)", I believe is what the section was titled. Reread that, then go back and read my posts.

I believe this is the specific line that you find objectionable:
"I have a strong feeling that if a survey was conducted outside of the US
that had but one single item -- "List ten adjectives that describe the
typical American" -- that in the overwhelming majority of responses you
would find the words "greedy", "selfish", and "childish". "

Does this specifically say that _I_ believe that the typical American is greedy, selfish, and childish?  No, it does not.  I _am_ saying that I fear that many non-Americans will hold that opinion, and I go on to point out that it is the behavior of the over-the-top click-maniacs that is what those non-Americans were seeing.  And is because of the reward incentive that BW built into the rules that steered those participants in that direction in the first place.  But as so many of you have clearly demonstrated, there was no need for those maniacs to go that route; doing so was _their_ choice.  They may rationalize that "It was the rules that made me do it!", but you folks are clear proof that that is a weak excuse.

If this event was IN FACT a reward for fan loyalty, it would have been soooooooooooo much better if they simply did raffles.  Figure the 5950 lid for chances, based on your own demonstrated support of BW and participation in the community and go with that.  Would _that_ have been something nearly all of us could have lived with?  With the fringe benefit of NO bad PR.

Regardless of your beliefs, your article is blatanly attempting to perpetuate stated stereotypes.

[joey_mork84]

Crixt wrote...

CptPatch wrote...

joey_mork84 wrote...

I'm not talking about what Crixt said. I'm talking about the end of the article posted in your OP, as were many others before me. "And the ugly (American)", I believe is what the section was titled. Reread that, then go back and read my posts.

I believe this is the specific line that you find objectionable:
"I have a strong feeling that if a survey was conducted outside of the US
that had but one single item -- "List ten adjectives that describe the
typical American" -- that in the overwhelming majority of responses you
would find the words "greedy", "selfish", and "childish". "

Does this specifically say that _I_ believe that the typical American is greedy, selfish, and childish?  No, it does not.  I _am_ saying that I fear that many non-Americans will hold that opinion, and I go on to point out that it is the behavior of the over-the-top click-maniacs that is what those non-Americans were seeing.  And is because of the reward incentive that BW built into the rules that steered those participants in that direction in the first place.  But as so many of you have clearly demonstrated, there was no need for those maniacs to go that route; doing so was _their_ choice.  They may rationalize that "It was the rules that made me do it!", but you folks are clear proof that that is a weak excuse.

If this event was IN FACT a reward for fan loyalty, it would have been soooooooooooo much better if they simply did raffles.  Figure the 5950 lid for chances, based on your own demonstrated support of BW and participation in the community and go with that.  Would _that_ have been something nearly all of us could have lived with?  With the fringe benefit of NO bad PR.

Regardless of your beliefs, your article is blatanly attempting to perpetuate stated stereotypes.

^This^.. Thank you Crixt.

[CptPatch]

joey_mork84 wrote...

Crixt wrote...

All Dead wrote...
There are definitely a lot of mentally-challenged Americans. But we don't really think of them as Americans. Instead we call them Tea Partiers.

Liberals will stop at nothing to take every single thing done by the
right, and turn it into "racism."  You should really rethink who you
consider the mentally-challenged parties in this equation.  (Large
exception:  Sarah Palin is dumb)

Either way, this is not a forum for politics.

My point exactly.

Aren't these the exact same kind of over-reaching generalizations that you all have been blasting?

You're all rather correct on this point.  There pretty much is no point in debating politics because despite whatever amount of "debate" ensues, hardly anyone ever changes their opinions/views/alignment.  Instead, nearly all political "discussions" devolves to insults, barbs, and demeaning depictions of the opposition -- no matter which side of the aisle you occupy.

Modifié par CptPatch, 12 avril 2010 - 08:25 .

[CptPatch]

Crixt wrote...
Regardless of your beliefs, your article is blatanly attempting to perpetuate stated stereotypes.

So, what?  Are we supposed to just ignore that around the world America's PR image isn't all that great (to put it mildly)?  _WE_ know we're better than that, so we should just poo-poo additional negative PR?  And just leave it at, "What we dislike, we can safely ignore"?

Modifié par CptPatch, 12 avril 2010 - 08:12 .