150 réponses à ce sujet

[Smithers777]

Ooo, internet fights.

[CptPatch]

Just a reminder: If you haven't voted in the "Reaction to the recent Bazaar event" poll, do so ASAP.  And get others to vote as well! 
http://social.biowar...964/polls/4620/
With 117 votes cast, "Bogus" is running away from the pack with 41.  With 411 auction winners available to cast votes, I'm surprised more of them aren't weighing in.

Modifié par CptPatch, 12 avril 2010 - 08:26 .

[ice445]

CptPatch wrote...

Crixt wrote...
Regardless of your beliefs, your article is blatanly attempting to perpetuate stated stereotypes.

So, what?  Are we supposed to just ignore that around the world America's PR image isn't all that great (to put it mildly)?  _WE_ know we're better than that, so we should just poo-poo additional negative PR?  And just leave it at, "What we dislike, we can safely ignore"?

First of all, what proof do you have that people abroad have a negative image of us? I have talked to several europeans (British, German, Italian), and they all said that our image is generally good. Italy and Germany love us, actually (And I have talked to these people in person too).

Secondly, who cares if we do have bad PR with other countries? It's not like what they think of our ways actually matters at all. I'm not denying there's some things we could be doing better, but the fact that they disapprove is the last of the reasons we should go about changing those things.

And third of all, applying the Bazaar to this "moral standards" business of yours is well, bizarre. As I said before, the amount of people who recognized the link spam, knew what it was actually for, and actually gave it more than 1 second of thought to realize that it was an American only contest (And the amount of people who even noticed the link in the first place), is well, almost zero. So I don't understand why you're using this Auction as some way to perpetuate your apparent need for an American PR reform. There are far better examples you could use to go about this.

[Smithers777]

ice445 wrote...

CptPatch wrote...

Crixt wrote...
Regardless of your beliefs, your article is blatanly attempting to perpetuate stated stereotypes.

So, what?  Are we supposed to just ignore that around the world America's PR image isn't all that great (to put it mildly)?  _WE_ know we're better than that, so we should just poo-poo additional negative PR?  And just leave it at, "What we dislike, we can safely ignore"?

First of all, what proof do you have that people abroad have a negative image of us? I have talked to several europeans (British, German, Italian), and they all said that our image is generally good. Italy and Germany love us, actually (And I have talked to these people in person too).

Secondly, who cares if we do have bad PR with other countries? It's not like what they think of our ways actually matters at all. I'm not denying there's some things we could be doing better, but the fact that they disapprove is the last of the reasons we should go about changing those things.

And third of all, applying the Bazaar to this "moral standards" business of yours is well, bizarre. As I said before, the amount of people who recognized the link spam, knew what it was actually for, and actually gave it more than 1 second of thought to realize that it was an American only contest (And the amount of people who even noticed the link in the first place), is well, almost zero. So I don't understand why you're using this Auction as some way to perpetuate your apparent need for an American PR reform. There are far better examples you could use to go about this.

Calm down.

[Crixt]

CptPatch wrote...

Crixt wrote...
Regardless of your beliefs, your article is blatanly attempting to perpetuate stated stereotypes.

So, what?  Are we supposed to just ignore that around the world America's PR image isn't all that great (to put it mildly)?  _WE_ know we're better than that, so we should just poo-poo additional negative PR?  And just leave it at, "What we dislike, we can safely ignore"?

You seem to fail to realize that this is a "bioware caused spamming" more than an "Americans are spammers" issue (not that that's something that matters at all. "OH THOSE AWFUL AMERICANS, ALWAYS BEING FAT AND GREEDY AND SPAMMING THE INTERNETS!"  There's probably more people that were swayed by your off-base America-slamming than people that this event changed their opinions of America.

To sum it up:  no one will remember this in 6 weeks.  Stop acting like this is grounds for UN sanctions.

[monochrome2]

ice445 wrote...

CptPatch wrote...

Crixt wrote...
Regardless of your beliefs, your article is blatanly attempting to perpetuate stated stereotypes.

So, what?  Are we supposed to just ignore that around the world America's PR image isn't all that great (to put it mildly)?  _WE_ know we're better than that, so we should just poo-poo additional negative PR?  And just leave it at, "What we dislike, we can safely ignore"?

First of all, what proof do you have that people abroad have a negative image of us? I have talked to several europeans (British, German, Italian), and they all said that our image is generally good. Italy and Germany love us, actually (And I have talked to these people in person too).

Secondly, who cares if we do have bad PR with other countries? It's not like what they think of our ways actually matters at all. I'm not denying there's some things we could be doing better, but the fact that they disapprove is the last of the reasons we should go about changing those things.

And third of all, applying the Bazaar to this "moral standards" business of yours is well, bizarre. As I said before, the amount of people who recognized the link spam, knew what it was actually for, and actually gave it more than 1 second of thought to realize that it was an American only contest (And the amount of people who even noticed the link in the first place), is well, almost zero. So I don't understand why you're using this Auction as some way to perpetuate your apparent need for an American PR reform. There are far better examples you could use to go about this.

Exactly , besides bioware is canadian so wouldn't it look worse on Canadians then americans anyway?

[marquiseondore]

I think was more offended with being labeled a spammer. 

[pdspazzz]

marquiseondore wrote...

I think was more offended with being labeled a spammer. 

me to but if the spam shirt fits i guess its true

[joey_mork84]

Maviarab wrote...

Meh....joey both ugly and a stupid American....

PS:....joey...you still coming to me Tea Party? ROFLMAO

LOL Mavi.. Just because I am, doesn't mean we all are haha..

And yea, I'll be there as long as you haven't changed the time again

[scottshelby]

Bioware is a Canadian company right? Canada made America spam. Canada is the one to blame! Unless of course I'm wrong and Bioware is NOT a Canadian company, but I'm still pointing the finger at Canada. It's easier that way.

[joey_mork84]

Canada could be to blame.. Just sitting up there.. Plotting.. Turning the world against America so they can quietly come down and take over.. I knew it! LOL

Ah.. That was fun.. lol

BTW, scottshelby, I love the bottom line on your sig.. One of the best movies ever made!

"I love lamp!" lol

Modifié par joey_mork84, 12 avril 2010 - 09:36 .

[gcadays99]

I won a prize and the only place I had my referal link was in my sig on these forums, in the referal link list in these forums and a spot on my guilds website made to post links for the bazaar. Not once did I go to random forums or spam links in places that weren't expecting it. So to say you had to spam to win is incorrect.

[angiek76]

I won the Dragon Age shirt pack with a bid of 11449.



I had all games registered & I won 2 of the challenges. I was actually DM'd for winning 3 challenges but 2 of them were for the same challenge so I only got credit for 500 tokens. I spammed a bit on Twitter (after the close of challenges) with my url but mostly it came from people I know clicking my link from Myspace & Facebook. (I just heard that there was a glitch with the FB link not needing to be clicked if you had the entire link with thumbnail..but as luck would have it I canceled the thumbnail view from my post & just had the url. I didn't think people would click it if they saw it was just a game.)



I expected things to go a bit differently at the start of the auction. I honestly thought I'd be in contention for some of the PCs or Laptops. I am however, not unhappy about not being able to win any of those. It was a competition. I entered every challenge on Twitter-had friends click the link-and actually placed the link in a few pretty clever places.



Overall, I actually thought it was pretty fun & I got to meet a few new friends from the BioWare community.

[Feraele]

scottshelby wrote...

Bioware is a Canadian company right? Canada made America spam. Canada is the one to blame! Unless of course I'm wrong and Bioware is NOT a Canadian company, but I'm still pointing the finger at Canada. It's easier that way.

Bioware is a Canadian game company that was acquired by an international American company named EA..based in California.   Ea is the parent company ..American and therefore dictates what happens or what doesn't happen in contests.   If you read the rules...you knew that you were complying with EA's rules.

[Feraele]

joey_mork84 wrote...

Canada could be to blame.. Just sitting up there.. Plotting.. Turning the world against America so they can quietly come down and take over.. I knew it! LOL

Ah.. That was fun.. lol

BTW, scottshelby, I love the bottom line on your sig.. One of the best movies ever made!

"I love lamp!" lol

Yep Joey...you just never know....about us Canadians. ;P  Be careful   (hehehe)

[joey_mork84]

Feraele wrote...

Yep Joey...you just never know....about us Canadians. ;P  Be careful   (hehehe)

Yea.. You are all just too quiet.. LOL

[CptPatch]

gcadays99 wrote...

I won a prize and the only place I had my referal link was in my sig on these forums, in the referal link list in these forums and a spot on my guilds website made to post links for the bazaar. Not once did I go to random forums or spam links in places that weren't expecting it. So to say you had to spam to win is incorrect.

I believe this is the passage you are referring to:

"Members had a great choice: Either refuse to demean themselves by going
a-begging for clicks from everyone whose path they crossed -- and sulk
as others that _do_ demean themselves get all of the goodies -- or
reduce themselves to a pack of adolescents panhandling change (clicks)
from their relatives, friends, coworkers, strangers, and social groups.
I've seen estimates that as many as 20+% of the auction participants
got themselves banned on at least one forum or more for having spammed
the forum with referral links. "

Notice that I did not, never said that ALL of the participants resorted to spamming.  I _did_ point out that there were estimates circulating that perhaps as many as 20% had been doing spam, enough to get themselves banned.

However, as much as you all may disagree with me characterizing it as such, but going anyplace, even a thread for swapping clicks, is still "going a-begging".  You are asking others to "do this for _me_."  The closest to actually working for payment was the click-swapping: "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours."  That still boils down to, "Please give me a click."  A _lot_ of participants couldn't bring themselves to even go that far in regards to garnering additional tokens.  I'm inclined to believe that most of those people had an upbringing that emphasized that a real adult stands on their own two feet and refrains from relying on the charity of strangers.  And the price they paid for being too prideful is that they classed themselves out of being competitive.

Who here has the "right" of it?  EVERYONE feels that where they draw the line is the "right" location to place the line.:

The out-and-out spammers will stipulate that "It was the Rules that made us do it!  And because it's okay in the Rules, it was the thing for any _sensible_ competitor to do!"

Those that limited themselves to appropriate threads in acceptable forums will contend that that was the "right" thing to do because A) it was what the Rules steered you towards as a winning solution, and because it was massively more dignified than surrendering to the urge to spam.

Those that refused to post referral links at all -- thus assuring that they wouldn't be winning anything (barring _many_ Challenge wins) -- most likely feel that a person should win or lose strictly on _their_ own merits, with no need to have others help them out.  (This was, after all, NOT a team event.)

All three groups feel right down to their bones that it is their group that has gotten it "right".  And then looks at the other two groups and know in their heart of hearts that the other two groups have got it "wrong".  Hence the complaints and derogatory depictions flying around.  Those that spammed are -- the label is derogatory enough -- spammers, to be berated.  Those with restraint are still "beggars".  Those that didn't seek referral clicks are just "sore losers" and "whiners".

What was the "right" way to approach this event?  The way that _you_ approached the event was the "right" way -- because it is _you_ that hold the only definition of "right" that matters.  And we _all_ generally do the "right" thing (most of the time).  And on balance, those that do things other than the way you would do them most probably in the "wrong".  This is just something that you KNOW to be True.

No amount of debate, vitriol, castigation, or admonishments is going to get _anyone_ to cop to "I was wrong."  Because the opposing arguments are coming from obvious "wrong"-minded people.  (Most likely referred to as "idiots" or some such other derogatory label.)  What has been going on here hasn't been debate; it's been venting.

This event has created a LOT of dissatisfied or unhappy people.  People tend to look for external sources for their unhappiness.  So pointing fingers have been zinging around.  But pretty much everyone dislikes having those fingers pointing at them.  And -- if I may be allowed to insert an overarching generalization -- most/many Americans have it ingrained into them that "The best Defense is a good Offense."  So instead of, "Don't point that finger at me!" we get "Don't point that finger at me, you (derogatory term)!"  And then the race is on to see who can do the better job of minimalizing and demeaning their opponents.

All that heat being exchanged, and _nobody_ is going to budge the slightest bit.

Welcome to America.  Or maybe just, welcome to the human race.

Modifié par CptPatch, 13 avril 2010 - 01:12 .

[Crixt]

CptPatch wrote...
What was the "right" way to approach this event?  The way that _you_ approached the event was the "right" way -- because it is _you_ that hold the only definition of "right" that matters.  And we _all_ generally do the "right" thing (most of the time).  And on balance, those that do things other than the way you would do them most probably in the "wrong".  This is just something that you KNOW to be True.

Hey look, something that makes complete sense, I finally agree with you, sounds like you've partially turned the corner.

CptPatch wrote...
most/many Americans have it ingrained into them that "The best Defense is a good Offense."  So instead of, "Don't point that finger at me!" we get "Don't point that finger at me, you (derogatory term)!"

Hahahahaha, nevermind.

[joey_mork84]

It's never ending, Crixt. This guy is a lost cause lol...

[CptPatch]

joey_mork84 wrote...
This guy is a lost cause lol...

"All that heat being exchanged, and _nobody_ is going to budge the
slightest bit"

Those that disagree with you are most likely mentally quoting you -- about you!

[Remmak]

I don't deserve to be slandered just because I won an auction. Period.

[Crixt]

Remmak wrote...

I don't deserve to be slandered just because I won an auction. Period.

I mean, come on Remmak, you have to admit that you're a greedy, spamming, example-to-the-world calibur ugly American, right?

[Rive Caedo]

CptPatch wrote...
Who here has the "right" of it?  EVERYONE feels that where they draw the line is the "right" location to place the line.:

The out-and-out spammers will stipulate that "It was the Rules that made us do it!  And because it's okay in the Rules, it was the thing for any _sensible_ competitor to do!"

Those that limited themselves to appropriate threads in acceptable forums will contend that that was the "right" thing to do because A) it was what the Rules steered you towards as a winning solution, and because it was massively more dignified than surrendering to the urge to spam.

Those that refused to post referral links at all -- thus assuring that they wouldn't be winning anything (barring _many_ Challenge wins) -- most likely feel that a person should win or lose strictly on _their_ own merits, with no need to have others help them out.  (This was, after all, NOT a team event.)

All three groups feel right down to their bones that it is their group that has gotten it "right".  And then looks at the other two groups and know in their heart of hearts that the other two groups have got it "wrong".  Hence the complaints and derogatory depictions flying around.  Those that spammed are -- the label is derogatory enough -- spammers, to be berated.  Those with restraint are still "beggars".  Those that didn't seek referral clicks are just "sore losers" and "whiners".

There we go. That's the most fair assestment of this event. Which was probably a bad idea in the first place. Putting a few carrots out for crowd of hungry people tends to bring out the worst in them.

CptPatch wrote...

And -- if I may be allowed to insert an
overarching generalization -- most/many Americans have it ingrained into
them that "The best Defense is a good Offense."  So instead of, "Don't
point that finger at me!" we get "Don't point that finger at me, you
(derogatory term)!"  And then the race is on to see who can do the
better job of minimalizing and demeaning their opponents.

All
that heat being exchanged, and _nobody_ is going to budge the slightest
bit.

Welcome to America.  Or maybe just, welcome to the human
race.

Again, this seems silly though. I'd hold that your "or maybe" is the correct position.

If you truly believe that opening this contest up to the entire world EXCEPT America would have turned this into a sunshine and daisies event where referall links would  hardly have been used at all and some/all of the 412 people would have won with 6000ish points... I think you're deluding yourself.

If you don't truly hold that position, then I'd start focusing on humanity itself and human greed (or the morality of hanging carrots out to people) rather than distracting from your legitimate points by attacking a single nation.
I'd say the same thing if this had been a contest exclusive to another nation and you were pointing fingers at it.
You're going to find 412 people willing to debase themselves (to whatever level) in any community of sufficient size.
Probably starting around 420 people

[Feraele]

Notice that I did not, never said that ALL of the participants resorted to spamming. I _did_ point out that there were estimates circulating that perhaps as many as 20% had been doing spam, enough to get themselves banned - END QUOTE



And..of course there were those "possibly that 20%" that went over the top, got themselves banned on several websites ( I saw threads based around that here in off-topic, as a matter of fact)



But...this "bad" behaviour doesn't reflect on the spammers themselves..as soon as they are banned they are forgotten about. What does remain however, is the bad impression, and that points a finger in Bioware's direction.



I've stated this before. A few times.



As to people taking it personally..if you didn't spam you weren't part of the problem...so don't take that personally, its not being applied to you.



I still say, this was definitely a scheme to get more sales..its quite obvious it was, and whether it peed off a good number of the fanbase...it still got the results that EA/Bioware wanted in the end.



I'd say there's a loss of integrity there. But the bean counters don't care about integrity...they care about this: $$$$$$$$

[joey_mork84]

CptPatch wrote...

joey_mork84 wrote...
This guy is a lost cause lol...

"All that heat being exchanged, and _nobody_ is going to budge the
slightest bit"

Those that disagree with you are most likely mentally quoting you -- about you!

Fail.